User talk:ThereWillBeTime

Season of the Witch (song)

I have made my contribution about the proposed changes to the song on its talk page and that discussion should start there. What I wanted to bring here was a discussion about your actions. I did not know about the talk page discussion, so it would have been more helpful to point that out to me on my talk page instead of through an edit summary, especially when your reversion went against WP:BRD with an ongoing discussion. Your edits in relation to this song are WP:Edit warring, which already got the article protected from editing. Your adding back the orphaned fair use template to the file, [1], was incorrect and could also be seen as edit warring, trying to get the file deleted. Once a file is no longer orphaned, the process starts over again and a new seven day template could have been put in starting January 17 or you could have let the bot tag it like it did the last time. Aspects (talk) 23:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Understood. I guess, in that same sense. It perhaps would have been more helpful for you to review the edits and the discussion on the talk page before restoring an entire section.ThereWillBeTime (talk) 23:45, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Complaint about you on my talk page

See User talk:EdJohnston#Season of the Witch (song) where User:Aspects has complained about the continuing war on this article. Since you continued to revert after protection expired, with no evidence (that I can see) of any agreement reached on talk, please explain why you shouldn't be blocked for continuing the war. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 05:18, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Hey, thank you for coming to me for my explanation, EdJohnston.

I'll of course defer to your judgement on this matter. But just summarizing my experience of this situation; there was what I saw to be a section in an article presenting a large amount of undue weight to a subject. I edited this section and opened up discussion about the section on the article's talk page. Another editor joined the discussion, which turned into an unproductive edit-war esque situation. An admin stepped in, you, protected the page, and told us, the editors, to discuss this issue on the talk page, and advised to seek resolution using other procedures if one could not be reached. This discussion was happening, changes and compromise edits had been made by myself and the other editor in the discussion, and then a third editor who wasn't even aware of the discussion, or a participant in it, came, wiped out these edits, and restored the previously disputed content.

To that end. I feel I should not be blocked because I do not feel that I am continuing this war. I feel as though the third editor who came in and restored the content without even reviewing the discussion surrounding it on the talk page was irresponsible with their edit. I am hoping to have a discussion about it with other editor's, and if no consensus can be reached there, I would hope to follow through with other wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution options.ThereWillBeTime (talk) 05:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello ThereWillBeTime. Please become serious about following the dispute resolution options. The next time you touch the article you may be blocked. EdJohnston (talk) 04:30, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough, Ed. Thank you again for your time and I'm sorry that this issue has taken up so much of it. I will continue to do my best to do my part to be a productive and good editor. ThereWillBeTime (talk) 05:14, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Joe Walsh There Goes The Neighborhood

ThereWillBeTime, The release date of Joe Walsh's There Goes The Neighborhood, May 15, 1981 definitely came from the original vinyl LP sleeve of The Eagles' 1982's Greatest Hits Vol. 2. Not the Discogs website. Not the CD. The Record LP vinyl. Released in 1982. On the front and back of the sleeve has the same exact parts of the design that's shown on the front record cover. And the sleeve has The Eagles' Discography including the solos, Joe Walsh, Glenn Frey, and Don Henley. There are 6 albums shown on each side of the sleeve. And above each and every album has a release date. On the back of the sleeve, on the upper right hand corner shows Joe Walsh's There Goes The Neighborhood album. And above it says May 15, 1981. And on the bottom of the sleeve, it says (C)1982 Elektra/Asylum Records, A Division of Warner Communications, Inc. Printed in U.S.A. I don't think Richard3120 was completely aware of what I was trying to explain to him. Go to: https://www.ebay.com/itm/EAGLES-GREATEST-HITS-VOL-2-LP-HOTEL-CALIFORNIA-1982-ASYLUM-E1-60205-VINYL/303631821862?hash=item46b You will see a picture photo of The Front album cover of The Eagles' 1982's Greatest Hits Vol. 2. Below it are 6 small photos of the record and the sleeve. Click on the 4th photo and the photo of the back sleeve will come up on the main photo above. Zoom on the main photo above and the much bigger photo of the back sleeve should appear. then go over to the upper right hand corner of the screen and you will see Joe Walsh's There Goes The Neighborhood album. And right above it, You will see May 15, 1981. If you go to the bottom left hand of the sleeve, you will see (C)1982 Elektra/Asylum Records, A Division of Warner Communications, Inc. Printed in U.S.A. You'll have to do this on a laptop or a regular computer. You'll be able to see the sleeve much better. (Jeckylback (talk) 13:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC))

Hey (Jeckylback Thanks, hope you are well :) Yup, I believe that I totally understand that you're seeing these dates inside album sleeves, and I have no doubt that these album sleeves contain this information. I do agree with Richard that these album sleeves are NOT reliable for release dates, much in the way the discog links I sent you are not. At this point, personally, I suspect there was both a US release on May 10, and a Canadian release on May 15, but I have no reliable sources to back this information. Despite the fact that there's a record sleeve somewhere that says May 15th on it, I don't necessarily think that's an adhortative source about the album date. I imagine there were record sleeves that indicated May 10th and May 15th on the original releases of the Joe Walsh album, and that's why Discogs lists their release dates this way. I actually looked into seeing if I could contact the record company to get an official response from them or something wrt the release date, but I couldn't find any such avenue to contact them. To that end, in terms of the reliable sources with information about the release date, it seems like the best can do for Wikipedia is May 1981. If you find anything in the future regarding a more concrete release date and want to add it, I would just advise to check out the article of reliable sources before updating it. :) ThereWillBeTime (talk) 07:51, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

The record sleeve of The Eagles' 1982's Greatest Hits Vol. 2 with Joe Walsh's There Goes The Neighborhood album with May 15th is the ONLY information I found and the ONLY record sleeve I have looked at. And the record sleeve has parts of the SAME EXACT design that is shown on the front record cover. and on the back of the sleeve, on the bottom left hand corner, it says (C) 1982 Elektra/Asylum Records, A Division of Warner Communications, Inc. Printed in U.S.A. Not printed in Canada. So the release dates that are shown above each and every album are believed to be U.S. releases. Not Canadian releases. But I do truly believe that there are liner notes especially in New CD releases years or decades after an album was released can be unreliable sources. In the liner notes of Styx's 1995's Greatest Hits CD, It says that Styx arrived to A&M Records in March, 1976. But 1975's Equinox LP was released by A&M Records. So it must've been a misprint right there. So they had to've arrived to A&M Records in March, 1975. It also says that Styx's Double Live album, Caught In The Act was released in 1983. But it was actually released in 1984. Styx's Kilroy Was Here album was released in 1983. I have both Kilroy Was Here and Caught In The Act, Live. Yes, there are some liner notes that are unreliable sources. But the record sleeve of The Eagles' Greatest Hits Vol. 2 LP released in 1982, and it shows the exact parts of the design that is shown on the front record cover, and the way it looks especially that it's copyrighted (C) 1982 on the record cover and on the lower left hand of the inside sleeve in which the album was released a year after Joe Wash's There Goes The Neighborhood album was released, I do still believe that this record sleeve is a reliable source, because of a release date that is shown above each and every album on The Eagles' Discography, especially the solo discographies and it was released only a year after the Joe Walsh album was released. And the way the sleeve looks and how it's copyrighted (C) 1982. Especially that this record sleeve has the parts of the design shown on the record cover. Maybe you should try harder to get a hold of the record company, does the record company have a website at all? Could they be on Facebook, or Twitter? Or maybe you can somehow contact The Eagles Website Or Joe Walsh's Website? (If they still have websites.) Anyway, I'll check out the Wikipedia reliable sources and see if I can find anything. (Jeckylback (talk) 03:22, 22 January 2021 (UTC))

Hey, hey, Jeckylback. So no need to make a new section each time you reply :) You can just click edit in the section our discussion is in, and put your reply below mine in the conversation. When you do that, make sure to begin your paragraph with the correct amount of :'s to indent it properly :) Back to the subject at hand, the situation you explained with the Styx CD is exactly why we have the problem with the record sleeve being a reliable source :) There could be many reasons why there would be a misprint in a sleeve. Maybe the person who wrote the sleeve simply made an error when typing out the sleeve originally and no one noticed. Maybe there were two dates for its release like I suspect, May 10th, and May 15th, and whomever worked on the text for the sleeve for the Eagles album just saw the May 15th one. The list of scenarios where we could imagine someone making a mistake could go on and on, the point being, that we simply can't accept these notes as a reliable source, I believe.

I sadly have no advice for how to get authoritative sources for album release dates. In terms of even doing something like I had tried i.e. trying to get record company info or contact someone there, a response from them wouldn't even really qualify as a reliable source, because it would just be another person telling me the release date, and instead, I would need the record company to produce a reliable source with the release date for me. If you go to the 'official joe walsh' web site, you'll see they have a date of March 10th written as the release date, which was the date previously listed on Wikipedia. To that end, perhaps a strategy you could use is to look at other well written articles about albums that have reliable sources which are cited for the album release date. You could then see if any of these reliable sources contain any reliable information about albums you suspect may be represented inaccurately. ThereWillBeTime (talk) 19:14, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

ThereWillBeTime. The website that you mentioned May 10th, you misread it. It's actually March 10th. It's shortened Mar. 10th. And about the original vinyl sleeve of The Eagles' Greatest Hits Vol. 2 that I have explained to you and Richard3120 about, Well, I tried. I did the best I could to convince you and Richard3120 that it was a reliable source. Oh well. It is what it is. I knew that a CD liner notes would be an unreliable source, but, I never ever in a million years knew that an original record vinyl LP sleeve would be an unreliable source. Richard3120 also told me that a band's website can be an unreliable source, especially a Styx website in which I figure it would be, because I had noticed that there are a couple of release dates that are incorrect. So, that's exactly where whoever posted on Wikipedia got March 10th from, The Joe Walsh Website in which I now believe that it's an unreliable source now that I know where March 10th came from. And I also had noticed that Loverboy has an unreliable source website. On that website, the release date of their first album says May 28, 1980. And their second album, Get Lucky, the released date says June 7, 1981 in which fell on a Sunday. So both of those release dates are incorrect. And I definitely see Richard3120's point of view of an album that shouldn't be released on a day when you would have to wait until the next day to buy it. So why WOULD you want to release an album on a day when everybody would have to wait until the next day to buy it? Loverboy's first album was released in late 1980. And their second album, Get Lucky was released in late 1981. But maybe Joe Walsh's There Goes The Neighborhood album was released in the U.K. on March 10, 1981. And it was released in the U.S. on May 15, 1981. And released in Canada on May 5, 1981. Or the other way around vice versa. Released in U.S. on May 5, 1981. Released in Canada on May 15, 1981. Then again, It might've been released in the U.K. on March 10, 1981. And it might've been released in Canada on May 5, 1981. And it might've been released in the U.S. on May 15, 1981. If so, that would make sense. So anyway, perhaps, I will look up the Wikipedia reliable sources and see if I can find anything. (Jeckylback (talk) 07:39, 23 January 2021 (UTC))

Jeckylback good catch on the March 5th date on Discogs :) My mind definitely filled in the blank and just turned the Mar 10 into May because the Canadian release is listed as May 15th. This is of course why Discogs is not a reliable source. It's presenting two very distinctly different album release date citations. I wish you the best of luck of finding a good reliable source for this albums release date. If you find anything promising, I'd of course be curious to see what you came up with. If you want to discuss this any more any more, there's a discussion under the talk page of the There Goes the Neighborhood article. :) ThereWillBeTime (talk) 17:46, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

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