User talk:Sebastian Panwitz
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Judensohn
[edit]Dear Sebastian - do you think 'son of a Jew' is really the best translation for 'Judensohn'? It is not idiomatic English and it was not Mendelssohn's sense when speaking with Devrient. The point of his comment was that he was Jewish, not that he was the son of a Jew. I believe a more accurate translation might be 'Jewboy' (which carries with it a deliberate mocking of anti-Jewish insults) - but this is rather controversial. In the circumstances I believe it is best to translate it simply as 'Jew' (which is how Devrient's 19th century English translator translated it), giving the German 'Judensohn' in brackets. Best regards, --Smerus (talk) 17:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Dear David, Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy never regarded himself a Jew. "Jewry" was a matter of religion in 19th century Germany, not of ethnicity. He himself was not circumcised, not raised in Jewish tradition and baptized at the age of 11. He regarded himself and felt like a Christian German (not a Jewish German). At the same time, he never hid his Jewish descent but was proud of it, somehow. So when he referred to himself as Judensohn, it meant just that: son of a Jew, son of his father Abraham, who was born and raised Jewish, who was circumcised, who married Jewish, who was subject to special laws ("Judenrecht") etc. "Son of a Jew" probably sounds a bit strange, and my English is too poor to find a better translation. But "Judensohn" definitly does not mean "Jew". If Felix would have wanted to say that, he simply would have written "Jude". Do you have any idea how to put this term into a more appropriate English? Best regards, Sebastian Panwitz (talk) 17:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- Well, perhaps we can agree on 'a Jew's son' for 'Judensohn', which is anyway a bit more idiomatic. (You probably know Zelter's leter to Goethe, where he describes the young Felix as ein Judensohn, aber keiner Jude because Abraham did not have him circumcised - the only other application I know of this term to Felix). Felix's comment to Devrient is the only occasion we have I think where Mendelssohn refers to himself, to anyone outside of his family, as having Jewish origins, which makes it particularly interesting. I entirely agree with you that he felt himself as a Christian German, yet was proud of his Jewish descent. But he seems to have been very careful with his private opinions and to have displayed them rarely. Best regards, --Smerus (talk) 08:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
- 'a Jew's son' is perfect, thank-you very much for finding this term! The attitude of the baptised Mendelssohns towards Jewry and their own Jewish descent is a fascinating topic, you are right. Best regards, Sebastian Panwitz (talk) 10:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
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