User talk:Romomusicfan/sandbox/Women in Punk Rock in the United Kingdom in the 21st Century
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Hi Romo, I am wondering if Frau belongs in this list of artists who made significant contributions. I created the Frau article, as I saw it in a list of redlinks on the Women in Red or a similar women-topic talk page. The article has been tagged for notability for a while, but I haven't been able to find anything more about this band than what is in the stub article. My thinking is that they should be in an "other artists" section. What do you think? Netherzone (talk) 17:43, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Well they seem to pass WP:BAND for multiple references in reliable sources (Billboard, Impose (magazine), Maximumrocknroll) which means they pass WP:GNG too in effect. On the other hand, I can't say I've heard of them much in the same circle as other acts on the list and I can't seem to find any Facebook page for them. We'll see what happens with their article.Romomusicfan (talk) 17:52, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, they do meet GNG and BAND due to the sourcing (which was why I felt fine about creating the stub in the first place) but they do not seem to have gone anywhere/done much since their arrival. Which is why I'm thinking that they shouldn't be part of the significant acts, but rather other acts. I'm going to go ahead and make that change on the WiPR article (feel free to undo my edit if you object. Netherzone (talk) 17:57, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Have removed the notablity tag from Frau's page for the above reasons.Romomusicfan (talk) 18:06, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you! I was hoping someone other than me would remove it. Netherzone (talk) 18:14, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Have removed the notablity tag from Frau's page for the above reasons.Romomusicfan (talk) 18:06, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- The trouble is we haven't got a proper name for this scene, much less an official list of Who's In And Who's Out (this is one of the few things to miss about the old school music press.) I did recently write to Steve Iles, he was very flattered but unable to help, he's done interviews but only about individual bands (typically to promote an upcoming gig), not the scene as a whole. Indeed, the only source to confirm that "Women in Punk Rock in the United Kingdom in the 21st Century" constitutes a coherent Thing is the quote from Nina Courson from Vive Le Rock. That's the reason at the moment this is just a section rather than an article. Clearly some of the sources to support this as a standalone article have as yet to be written.Romomusicfan (talk) 18:06, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- I share the same thoughts, that there isn't a proper name for the scene. I wish someone would write a book, or a chapter in a book. It surprises me that this has not been done yet. A few weeks ago I tried searching through some of the more academic articles on JSTOR, and found some hopeful articles. (posted on the WiPR talk, but unfortunately they are behind a paywall, so not everyone has access.) But because my full-time job was starting up again, I did not have the time to go through each of them. I do have access to JSTOR, so when I find the time later this spring, will see what is there and if anyone has coined a name for the 2010s UK scene. Netherzone (talk) 18:14, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- This is funny I played in this band, we split up in 2016 (our last gig was Pearlfest) we had a website you can find on the wayback machine - fraupunk.co.uk. I don't think there is a cohesive scene (right now anyway) but there's great writing in Maximum RockNRoll, Another Subculture zine and I love this website a lot: https://girlandqueerbands.neocities.org/ Kirsty Lohman was set to write a chapter/book (and has written some recent academic articles) but generally theres not much in terms of 'notability' - but the nature of punk is that most relevant writing that actually speaks true of our communities tends to be underground, in zines etc Rhagfyr (talk) 23:27, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- Helloi Rhagfyr! Good to hear from you. Can you provide links to some of that great writing, please? I'd love to improve the article but I had difficulty finding sources. Thanks in advance, Netherzone (talk) 23:46, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- Rhagfyr there definitely has been, if not a scene, then a definite wave of young, mostly female led bands affiliated to the Punk Rock/Rebellion Festival/ex 12 Bar scene and championed by Steve Iles (who, I emphasise, is not myself!) as described in my draft article, but nobody is writing about the scene as a whole, not even those parts of the music press who give individual bands coverage such as Louder Than War and Vive Le Rock. Hence no sources about the overall phenomenon, hence for example no snappy name for the phenomenon, hence the long and unwieldy working title for this draft article. (Hence also the problem of getting an third source besides VLR and LTW for two important bands Maid Of Ace and Dragster, who still don't have their own Wikipedia articles!) I wrote to Steve about this recetly and he said he has been interviewed quite a bit about individual bands whose gigs he has promoted but never about the scene as a whole.Romomusicfan (talk) 11:58, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Romomusicfan There may be enough sourcing on Maid of Ace to support a WP article. A search revealed significant coverage in addition to VLR & LTW, plus there are four pages of content on the band in the book in Revenge of the She Punks: A Feminist Music History from Poly Styrene to Pussy Riot. They also seem to be in this book: The Scene that Would Not Die:Twenty Years of Post-millennial Punk in the UK, however Google Books won't let me see inside. Netherzone (talk) 15:56, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Netherzone Have now created Maid of Ace and linked it in to this draft and your article.Romomusicfan (talk) 09:51, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
- Nice work on that @Romomusicfan~! Netherzone (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Netherzone Have now created Maid of Ace and linked it in to this draft and your article.Romomusicfan (talk) 09:51, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Romomusicfan There may be enough sourcing on Maid of Ace to support a WP article. A search revealed significant coverage in addition to VLR & LTW, plus there are four pages of content on the band in the book in Revenge of the She Punks: A Feminist Music History from Poly Styrene to Pussy Riot. They also seem to be in this book: The Scene that Would Not Die:Twenty Years of Post-millennial Punk in the UK, however Google Books won't let me see inside. Netherzone (talk) 15:56, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Rhagfyr there definitely has been, if not a scene, then a definite wave of young, mostly female led bands affiliated to the Punk Rock/Rebellion Festival/ex 12 Bar scene and championed by Steve Iles (who, I emphasise, is not myself!) as described in my draft article, but nobody is writing about the scene as a whole, not even those parts of the music press who give individual bands coverage such as Louder Than War and Vive Le Rock. Hence no sources about the overall phenomenon, hence for example no snappy name for the phenomenon, hence the long and unwieldy working title for this draft article. (Hence also the problem of getting an third source besides VLR and LTW for two important bands Maid Of Ace and Dragster, who still don't have their own Wikipedia articles!) I wrote to Steve about this recetly and he said he has been interviewed quite a bit about individual bands whose gigs he has promoted but never about the scene as a whole.Romomusicfan (talk) 11:58, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Helloi Rhagfyr! Good to hear from you. Can you provide links to some of that great writing, please? I'd love to improve the article but I had difficulty finding sources. Thanks in advance, Netherzone (talk) 23:46, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- This is funny I played in this band, we split up in 2016 (our last gig was Pearlfest) we had a website you can find on the wayback machine - fraupunk.co.uk. I don't think there is a cohesive scene (right now anyway) but there's great writing in Maximum RockNRoll, Another Subculture zine and I love this website a lot: https://girlandqueerbands.neocities.org/ Kirsty Lohman was set to write a chapter/book (and has written some recent academic articles) but generally theres not much in terms of 'notability' - but the nature of punk is that most relevant writing that actually speaks true of our communities tends to be underground, in zines etc Rhagfyr (talk) 23:27, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- I share the same thoughts, that there isn't a proper name for the scene. I wish someone would write a book, or a chapter in a book. It surprises me that this has not been done yet. A few weeks ago I tried searching through some of the more academic articles on JSTOR, and found some hopeful articles. (posted on the WiPR talk, but unfortunately they are behind a paywall, so not everyone has access.) But because my full-time job was starting up again, I did not have the time to go through each of them. I do have access to JSTOR, so when I find the time later this spring, will see what is there and if anyone has coined a name for the 2010s UK scene. Netherzone (talk) 18:14, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- The trouble is we haven't got a proper name for this scene, much less an official list of Who's In And Who's Out (this is one of the few things to miss about the old school music press.) I did recently write to Steve Iles, he was very flattered but unable to help, he's done interviews but only about individual bands (typically to promote an upcoming gig), not the scene as a whole. Indeed, the only source to confirm that "Women in Punk Rock in the United Kingdom in the 21st Century" constitutes a coherent Thing is the quote from Nina Courson from Vive Le Rock. That's the reason at the moment this is just a section rather than an article. Clearly some of the sources to support this as a standalone article have as yet to be written.Romomusicfan (talk) 18:06, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Category Thread from Category talk:Female-led UK punk bands of the 21st Century
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