User talk:Rfc1394/2007

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Welcome to the archives of Paul Robinson's talk page for 2007.
Main (Current) Rfc1394 (talk • contribs)

All of 2007

To allow my main page to be a bit shorter and more relevant, all material from 2007 ~~prior to July~~ has been moved here. ~~Beginning of 2008 I'll probably move through September, depending on how much more is added. So currently this is the first 1/2 of 2007, rather than all of it.~~

County1 Template

There seems to be a problem with the Template:County1. See List of counties in Illinois as an example. You will see in that article that it is fine until Crawford County, but then it blows up. Same problem on List of counties in Montana. There is some discussion on the talk page for the template. I have played around with the list and have not been able to resolve the problem. I don't know enough about the template to know if it is a problem with the template or something with the way it is used. Jopgaard 03:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware of the problem, but I do appreciate you letting me know about it. There is a problem in the Wikimedia source code with multiple inclusion of the same templates that call several inner macros or use result testing such as case statements, because the macro processor mistakenly believes, for example, in the case of a macro that has, say 100 or 200 lines, that the enire macro is being included, when perhaps it generates one or two lines. (For example, the macro that looks up the state, is called twice on each table entry (once to look up the FIPS page on the census bureau and once for the state name) and uses a case statement, thus, technically it references 100 lines it only generates two.) This causes the macro processor to incorrectly estimate the amount of generated data and causes the page (erroneously) to cross the limit of 2 megabytes of generated data. When a page is determined to have crossed the two meg limit, the macro processor will no longer translate further inclusions. This causes spurious errors. A workaround I have used to fix this problem is to use subst: in front of some {{macro calls}}, then save the page. This will, in some cases, free up enough space to allow the page to finish renedering properly. In some cases I've had to open, subst, save and lather, rinse, repeat several times to reduce all macro calls to the actual wiki/html code and once it drops to the point it isn't generating as much code, then it fixes it. I have an idea on something I can try, I may try it in the sandbox and see if it works, if it does that will fix the problem. Personally I'd like to keep the use of macros, they allow the page to be written cleaner, but if I have to lose the macros to get the pages to render correctly I'll do it. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 00:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Area code articles' number ordering

Heya. What sort of naming convention are you following when the article has two area code numbers such as Area codes 410 and 443; are you putting the numbers in numerical order, or are you putting the overlay number after the existing area code? Area codes 240 and 301 seem to be in numerical order, but Area codes 703 and 571 appear to have the overlay code after the existing one. -Taco325i 21:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

image madness never ends

Please see your wikinews talk page. Bawolff 04:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And again! :-)

--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 22:01, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Cars 2006 Movie DVD.PNG)

Thanks for uploading Image:Cars 2006 Movie DVD.PNG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 11:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Verified.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Verified.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. MECU≈talk 16:11, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

move

I have moved Ph:CheckUser to User:Rfc1394/sandbox. I am sure it does not belong in the (Main) namespace. -- RHaworth 14:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kentucky county list

I like what you've done with your template on List of counties in Kentucky. Is it your intention to finish that work, or did you start it for an example for someone else to finish? Since I had just revamped the list, I had intended to nominate it for featured list before you began your work, but now your work will have to be finished before the nomination can happen. Please let me know. Acdixon 18:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is a problem; see below.

I revised the page because the new macros used to define the entries provide more information and make the internal format of the page cleaner (at least in my opinion). I shall try to finish the page by moving the rest of the entries to the new table format by the end of today, and then you can propose it as a best list. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 18:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Without question, the template makes things cleaner, and the external links ought to preclude the need for the second table. Just wanted to know if I needed to find the time to finish it or if you were coming back to it. I think between the work we've both done, this ought to be a shoe-in for Featured List. Thanks for your help! Acdixon 18:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed when I was adding the FIPS codes for each county, that in the list of counties which include histories, Wayne County is missing, but it appears in the census info list. This will need to be fixed; I will put the county in the table with empty history information and you can look it up. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 19:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing out this error. I had intended to double-check the list and simply forgot it. I'll locate and add the appropriate information. Acdixon 19:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit of January 26 created two tables listing the counties to change the article from your edit of January 15. Unfortunately when you did the edit of January 26 you left out Wayne County in the new table. You need to see if there is a map image for that county. I was just mostly checking to make sure I hadn't made the mistake. I won't criticize because I've made errors too, and I realized that I could have made the same mistake, so the only suggestion I will make is when doing a long list of items, you might try comparing item by item against another list so you don't miss any; that's how I spotted the missing item. I'm thinking it would have been embarrassing to propose it as a featured list and they point out it's incorrect, or worse, if it gets approved and it's discovered later that it was. :) Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 19:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is kind of funny.
I gather you copied the entry for Washington County to create the entry for Wayne County. When I was saving my changes I got an edit conflict. So I checked and found you had added the new information for Wayne County. However, the map specified for Wayne County was the map for Washington County! I did correct that, however. I find it kind of funny, so don't think I'm picking on you. :) Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 20:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thank you for correcting my carelessness again. I know you're not picking on me. We both just want a quality product. Acdixon 21:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MilitaryChevron2.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:MilitaryChevron2.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Remember the dot (t) 17:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

County5 template

Something seriously weird is going on with your County5 template. It was working fine when List of counties in Kentucky was promoted to featured list, but it looks like some people have been monkeying with it and now it's broken, as you can see by looking at the current state of the list of Kentucky counties. I'm not a good template editor, and at least one other editor has been stumped. Could you take a look and see if you could straighten out the mess someone has made? Thanks. Acdixon 14:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of counties in Kentucky

Thanks for adding the extremely impressive image map to List of counties in Kentucky. In the interests or readability, I moved it from the very start of the page to lower down. I restored the individual county maps, as they enable anybody reading the article to instantly see where the county there are interested in is. I also dropped the size of the image slightly to prevent horizontal scrollbars (you don't have to chnage the image maps co-ords for that). Tompw (talk) 11:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, as you know, there's another 49 states to work through, should you have any free time :-) Tompw (talk) 11:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work on this list. With your addition, it's now even better! I think Tompw's changes are good ones, but there's no question this map is a great new feature. Acdixon 13:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Source of Area code information

Hi, I'm working on adding some area and ZIP code information to US cities and towns, but need to find boundary files first. Do you have any TIGER files or shapefiles for the area codes of the United States? Any tables related to area codes (such as mapping city/town names to area codes) would also be helpful. The sooner I can get my hands on the data the better, so that I can add it to the articles, so let me know. Thanks, --CapitalR 01:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Glassroth v. Moore

Hello! I noticed that you are the creator of the article of a court case Glassroth v. Moore. I have a question regarding the case. This case said erecting a Ten Commandment monument at a courthouse is unconstitutional. But in 2003 the case Freethought Society of Greater Philadelphia v. Chester County decided by Judge Edward Roy Becker of the Third Circuit ruled that a Ten Commandment display in a courthouse in Pennsylvania is OK. There is apparently conflict between the two cases. Has this conflict been addressed by SCOTUS or any other authority? Wooyi 18:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there has been a resolution of this conflict.

Well, having read, at least in part, the PDF of Freethought, I could argue that the court in that case had a different issue. In Glassroth, Chief Justice Moore had a large monument (essentially a large rock or piece of marble, I think) which weighed over a ton, installed right in the middle of the State Supreme Court entrance vestibule where everyone going into the building had to walk past. In Freethought the item in question was a 60-year-old brass plaque on the side of the building, and no real attempt to draw attention to the plaque had been made in decades. I think the issue in Glassroth was solved by moving the monument out of the building and onto a public park. So we still have a public display of the Ten Commandments on public land, but it's not in a place where it's being given attention to or where people otherwise have to go and are thus forced to see a government-sponsored religious display.

I think the issue is not of the government having a monument or display which references the ten commandments as much as placing it in an area where people who are otherwise forced to go there are required to be exposed to a government-mandated display of a religious artifact. Personally I think it's a stretch, but you could argue the Ten Commandments do have at least some legal relevance because of the prohibitions on certain conduct. Thus you can probably get away with the Ten Commandments but displays of a menorah and a baby in a manger are clearly improper. But even then, if the display is in a public park rather than on the grounds of city hall or the courthouse there might be more leeway given since people can decide to go visit the park or not; if they need to see their local representatives or sue or defend a suit, they have to go to the government building. This is probably why courts have found display of the Ten Commandments in schools to be unconstitutional because attendance in buildings of public education is compulsory.

It is arguable that there is enough difference between the two that the two rulings could stand. Take a look at the Lemon test and how the courts - specifically the Supreme Court - treat issues which may be both secular and religious in nature.

Now, if you were a city and wanting to allow a display of a baby in a manger, what you do is have some provision for allowing any group that collects some small number of signatures - say 100 - to be allowed to put up a display related to the holidays in December. They get a space of, say, ten feet by 5 feet. Petitions may be submitted any time, the period to display opens the day after Thanksgiving, and ends the last day of January. Petitioners must post a bond or deposit adequate to cover the cost of removing the display if they fail to do so, the deposit being refunded if they do remove all traces of their display, and there is no restriction on content as long as it is not in bad taste, obscene, etc. Now, as long as you allow anyone who complies with the rules to put up a display, regardless of content, you have a content-neutral display that would be permissible. But in that, if someone who otherwise qualifies wants to put up a satanic display, or an atheist one, they have to allow it. If it's content neutral, even though the content is religious in nature, the display would be permissible.

Personally, I think a display of the Ten Commandments represents a clearly religious-based display because of the provision of things related to the Christian concept of religion and should not be used on a government building. Now, if they only displayed the non-religious articles (which would probably reduce it to The Three Commandments!), I'd personally have no problem with it otherwise. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 02:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your long explanation. Now I understand more about this issue. My personal opinion is that no matter how the "establishment clause" get interpreted, it is not our priority to take off religious display from government buildings. Now we have the Iraq War, War on Drugs, Plame affair, and lots of more egregious government misconduct. A true civil liberties activist would target those things first and not to attack religion. Just my opinion, no offense. Thank you again! Wooyi 21:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

20 singles template

Hey, I was thinking about nominating Template:20 Singles (which you made) for deletion for several reasons, but am wondering why you created it, and if its existence is still a good idea, and stuff like that. It would be great to know if the template is still worth keeping. Thank you, Gracenotes ^T § 01:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I ended up creating a 21 Singles template, what it's used for is to show the years before and after a year listing single phonorecords in a given year. 21 singles gives me 10 before and 10 after the particular year. An even number means I have to make one of them have more than the other than be even. See, for example Category:1985 singles, which uses the 21 template. Since you mentioned it, I've marked it with the delete template. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 01:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Thank you! Gracenotes ^T § 04:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with edits at List of counties in Wisconsin

Somewhere in here, something went horribly awry... I don't have time to dig through it to figure it out right now, but thought if you have time, you might ought be better-prepared to fix it than I... Cheers, Tom e r ^talk 23:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:Example

I have made a change to the userbox on User example to allow people to learn how to look up their statistics page, that tells how many edits they have made. If you don't like this feature, either change it back or let me know. I think it's a nice idea that if someone wants to claim how many edits they've made, they can prove it, or they can look up their edit counts. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) 09:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned on my comment at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Several subpages of User:Example, I don't claim ownership of that account's pages, so there's no need to ask me whenever any change is made to them. In fact, I didn't even create its user page, only its user talk page. --cesarb 09:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

License tagging for Image:VA antique sample lic plates.png

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==PageTabs==

Hi, it looks like you've created a template in the main article space. Is this what you wanted to do? Leuko 03:49, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Geography Barnstar

Check your userpage. Congratulations and thanks for the great work. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 12:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TV Market Templates

When adding the navbox & collapse features to the TV Market templates, please pay attention to the text size in the headers, which looks like this:

{| class="navbox collapsible" style="margin: 0.5em 0em; clear: both;text-align:center; font-size: 95%;border: solid #000000 1px;" align="center" ! style="background:#ccccff;" align="center"|<div style="float:right">{{Tnavbar|Denver TV|mini=1}}</div> '''[[Terrestrial television|Broadcast]] [[Television stations]] in the [[Denver, Colorado|Denver]] market <small> ''[http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html (Nielsen DMA #18)]''</small>'''

The font-size must be at 95% -- otherwise, it would look too big.

Many thanks in advance.

-- azumanga 00:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clickable maps

I'm assuming you're the one who has done numerous clickable maps (List of counties in Kentucky and List of Texas area codes). Would you be willing to venture to List of counties in Texas and make a map like Image:Texas counties map.gif clickable? If you would, that would be so awsome. Let me know, Thanks. Jo e I 06:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of List of 005 Zip codes

An editor has nominated List of 005 Zip codes, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of 56 ZIP codes and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 19:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of List of 006 Zip codes

An editor has nominated List of 006 Zip codes, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of 56 ZIP codes and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 19:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of List of 007 Zip codes

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AfD nomination of List of 008 Zip codes

An editor has nominated List of 008 Zip codes, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of 56 ZIP codes and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 19:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of List of 009 Zip codes

An editor has nominated List of 009 Zip codes, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of 56 ZIP codes and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 19:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Cars_2006_Movie_DVD.PNG)

Thanks for uploading Image:Cars_2006_Movie_DVD.PNG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

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Orphaned fair use image (Image:Cars 2006 Movie DVD Squeezed.PNG)

Thanks for uploading Image:Cars 2006 Movie DVD Squeezed.PNG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

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Hi - a stub template or category which you created has been nominated for deletion or renaming at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion. The stub type, which was not proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals, does not meet the standard requirements for a stub type, either through being incorrectly named, ambiguously scoped, or through failure to meet standards relating to the current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at Wikipedia:Stub. Please feel free to make any comments at WP:SFD regarding this stub type, and in future, please consider proposing new stub types first! Grutness...wha? 01:04, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of 010 Zip codes

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on List of 010 Zip codes, by Ebyabe, another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because List of 010 Zip codes fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason: