User talk:Rama/Archive 16

Archive 10

←

Archive 14

Archive 15

Archive 16

Legere

Hi Rama, about a year ago I mentioned that I had just put up Sultana (1787 ship), which the privateer Legere had captured in 1799. You were, unfortunately, not able to find any Demerliac info about Legere. I have just found a mention of her capture in the London Gazette and have added it to the article. The Deletionists will eventually get to the article, but I have created a Sultana (ship) index page and should be able to save most of the info. In the meantime, we have answered a question. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:15, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh, well done! That sort of information where one has to skim through entire archives is very hard to come by, your expertise is invaluable here.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:39, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Double Ha!: I found Ducéré: Les corsaires basques et bayonnais sous la république et l'empire. He has Legere, including her armateur, master, size, guns, and crew. He also mentions the capture of Sultane, Damon, master, and her being taken into Vigo. I am surprised that Demerliac missed Legere. Anyway, now the question has really been answered. Acad Ronin (talk) 00:13, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh, smashing! I keep text files of these books for quick inline searches, but that technique does not work well for common words such as "légère", here again your exhaustive reading is invaluable. Thanks and congratulations! Rama (talk) 07:54, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Of course, I am greedy, and now wonder who captured her the second time. Unfortuunatly, I have not found the slightest clue. Incidentally, how does one archive part of one's talk page? I have been asked to do it, and I don't know how. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 08:56, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Since there is a help page about everything, there is one about this: Help:Archiving a talk page. The section Automated_archiving is what you probably want. Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:26, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. That worked, after many mistakes on my part. As is common, manuals are often written by people who know what they are doing, and read by people who don't. Still, I pretty much was able to do what I wanted. Acad Ronin (talk) 19:32, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Undiscussed page move

I see that someone has recently moved French ship Hautpoul (1807) to French ship D'Hautpoul (1807), with out discussion. As you moved it in the opposite direction in 2008,[[1]] with the edit summary, correct name of the ship, I wondered whether you had anything further to say on the subject. --Ykraps (talk) 13:27, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

It has to do with the use of particles (de and d´), which English-speaking authors tend to use erroneously as some sort of exoticising device. In this case, reference authors such as Roche do write D´Hautpoul, so it might be an exception of which I was unaware, or simply tolerated. In any case it is not something that risks ending civilisation as we know it.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:13, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

English speaking authors also tend to use the definitive articles La, Le and L' in front of French ship names and I'm not convinced that's correct either. I was going to revert the move but if you're not bothered, neither am I. Regards --Ykraps (talk) 14:38, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Indeed it often is not, but here again it is tricky: these articles were often featured on the ships (For instance here the name of the ship is definitely Soleil Royal), and in some cases they (or something that looks like them) are actually part of the name (e.g. in La Motte-Picquet, more typically written Lamotte-Picquet), and you have substantised adjectives used as names (Le Téméraire as "the temerarious one") alongside actual adjectives (so in a line of ships bearing the same name, it is not always clear which variant is being used and under which letter to search them at first). Usually I try to at least avoid phrasings like "the Le Téméraire", which I find inelegant.

Thank you for your attention to such details, and best wishes for the new year! Rama (talk) 16:01, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

The French Navy itself has gone back and forth on the issue. Those 1930s destroyers and contre-torpilleurs have articles that are part of their names, but earlier usages lack the article.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Demerliac request 1 January 2023

Hi Rama, Happy New Year. I have what I hope is an interesting puzzle. I have just put up Golden Age (1783 ship). In 1793 the French private frigate Citoyen, or Citoyen Francais de Bourdeaux captured her. Does Demerliac have anything on Citoyen? If she is the vessel I have linked to, she has had an interesting history. She is not in Roche. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:52, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

This just got even more interesting. Golden Age was bought at Philadelphia by a Frenchman who renamed her Republican. That was an unfortunately popular name, but perhaps Demerliac has something on her too. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

Citoyenne française would be French ship Vestale (1756) (no 2332, p.266). All available information is already in the article.

There is a privateer Républicain commissionned in 1794 but in Charleston, South Carolina (no 2609, p.288). She was captured by HMS Hussar and Scorpio on 25 October 1794.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Rama. I had to go to the library to check on the Charleston Republican. It could be the same vessel, i.e., the dates don't conflict, but there is no other info that would increase the probability, or rule it out. Does Demerliac have more about Republicain? Anyway, I'll put in a reference to it in the Golden Age article. Also, all the sources are clear about Citoyen and the French is good enough that they would not confuse it with Citoyenne. Lastly, my research into French privateers operating from Charleston turned up a Carmagnole. As with Republicain, the dates don't rule out her being the Carmagnole I asked about some time ago, but I can't find anything to push the identification further. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:01, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

I am afraid that is all there is, the entry is unfortunately quite succint. Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:09, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for checking. Unfortunately, all we have from Charleston is a nice list of prizes, and some legal to do, but no info on origins or burthen. Someday... Acad Ronin (talk) 20:19, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 9 January 2023

Hi Rama, does Demerliac have anything on a privateer named President Parker. She sailed from Dunkirk between 1797 and 1798, under an American named Ferrey, taking several prizes, before the RN captured her in October 1798. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:12, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

Yes, bear with me.

She started as the Montagne-class cutter Poisson Volant (no759, p.117) of the French Navy, built in Boulogne from May 1793 to April 1794 after plans by Daniel Denys (plans of 27 January 1793 available at SHM in Paris under reference number rf 8DD1.5, no38, and plans of 4 February 1793 available from SHM Cherbourg under reference number rf 2G2 no 349 through 351). 2 6-pounders and 8 4-pounder guns.

From September 1797 she was lent for use as a privateer, becomingPresident Parker, no 1722, p. 217, 81-tonne privateer cutter from Dunkirk. She sailed under J.B. Ferrey with 67 men and 10 4-pounder guns, plus 6 swivel guns. Captured by HMS Flora and Caroline in Octobor 1798.

She was retaken from the British in September 1800 and recommissioned in the French Navy as Poisson Volant. She was broken up in February 1802.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:30, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Great find. She is worth an article, and as she was a naval vessel, she is probably safe from the emerdent religious police. I found her in Winfield and Roberts, and Roche. Do we have any hint as to what her name was in British hands, and who recaptured her? I could find something about her service before she became President Parker, but nothing about her capture or recapture. Anyway, I will add some of the Demerliac immediately to the article Bud (1783 ship), and start on an article about Poisson Volant. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:12, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

No hint in Demerliac as her name in British hands, but I think I saw vessels named Flying Fish, might be worth having a look. Cheers! Rama (talk) 23:32, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Great suggestion. I found a likely candidate, but she doesn't show up in Lloyd's Register, so I can't make any solid link. Eventually... Acad Ronin (talk) 01:52, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 17 January 2023

Hi Rama, I just added some info to Duke of Buccleugh (1783 ship). In September 1793 she was in a single ship action with a French privateer named Pervie, a brig of eighteen 12-pounder guns and 220 men. The French squadron also included Vigilance. Does Demerliac have anything on Pervie, or Vigilance, of 24 guns and 300 men. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:18, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

I cannot find anything on Pervie, but that is not a common word and there does not seem to be a proper noun of this form either, so I suspect the name might have been misread. I struggle to think of what the original name could have been. There was a Perdrix but she was a naval corvette, not a brig.

The only Vigilance I have is Dutch corvette Waakzaamheid (1786), but she was not in French service in 1793. That is rather weird, naval ships of that size should be listed.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:49, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. Pervie may have been the name of some now obscure person. Vigilance may have been a privateer corvette, not naval. And then there is always the problem of transformation in translation or transcription. I will keep an eye out and hope that serendipity will work its magic. Thanks again. Cheers. Acad Ronin (talk) 16:05, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 29 January 2023

Hi Rama: I have just expanded Bush & Dreghorn (1798 ship). In 1812 a French privateer named Eleonore, or Leonore captured her. The Royal Navy recaptured Bush & Dreghorn, and captured the privateer. Does Demerliac have anything on the privateer. Thank, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:52, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, sorry for the delay.

There was one Éléonore (no 1951, p.259), commissioned in 1810 in Cherbourg under one Captain Alexandre Black. There is no more information on her size, equipment or late dates, but she is the only possible candidate in Demerliac.

Good continuation! Rama (talk) 18:39, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I have added the info.Acad Ronin (talk) 22:19, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 7 February 2923

Hi Rama, I have just added Hibberts (1784 ship). In 1804 the French privateer Restant captured her. Does Demerliac have anything on her? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:19, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

Restant (no 2710, p.318) a privateer commissioned in Saint-Domingue, operating from February to July 1804. Nothing more about her I am afraid.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 12:12, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

That we have anything is a surprise, so I am delighted. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:36, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 3 March 2023

Hi Rama, I have been working on the slave ship Ann (1792 ship). She had three encounters with French privateers, and I have two names I would appreciate your looking up: Coup d'Essai in 1796, and Rivermont in 1807. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:02, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Apologies. Forget Coup d'Essai. Wrong privateer (too small), and wrong prize (Anne of Newcastle). Acad Ronin (talk) 17:04, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Always a pleasure to have news of your adventures at sea! Rama (talk) 22:10, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Anything on Rivermont? Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:36, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I had missed it. No nothing by this name, sorry. Better luck next time hopefully! Rama (talk) 08:54, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. I thought we would be unlucky. The name is too "not French", so probably a badly mangled French word, or something else entirely. I hope I find some interesting story for you soon. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:29, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of French ship Héros (1752) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article French ship Héros (1752) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/French ship Héros (1752) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

JMWt (talk) 07:19, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

French sources request 6 March 2023

Hi Rama, do you by any chance have access to Bordeaux port négrier : XVII, by Éric Saugera? I can access an online partial view, but with pages missing. I am particularly looking for the sections discussing Conte, Sers, and the vessels Confiance, Beatrix, and Brave. I am really only looking for the info on Brave, but the discussion is inter-mixed. Unfortunately, I don't have page numbers to point to. (You looked up Brave for me some time ago in connection with the WP article on HMS Barbadoes (1804). Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:33, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I do not. I will try to ask around in case someone has access through an academic account, but it is a long shot.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:06, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. It is a long shot. The only copies of the book in North America are all in Canada. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:35, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Well the long shot turned out to also be a lucky one.

• p.269, in a discussion about insurances for the campaign of 1802-1803, they list the ships Brave, Confiance, Béatrix, Commerce, Loterie and Pucelle.
• p 119 and 121, they mention that some slaver shipowners turn to privateering, and a Confiance, under Captain Démanche, captures the 206-ton British slave ship Ann, from Liverpool.
• p.134, Brave, a 386-ton ship, formerly a privateer owned by Jacques Ségur and purchased by Conte, departs on 18 June 1802 under David Sers with 12 passengers and goods for the slave trading in Mozambique, as well as goods for Ile de France (notably wine). She arrives on 9 September.
• p.135, on 14 September 1803, Brave is captured by two ships from Liverpool, as she had just loaded about 750 slaves and 300 000 francs worth of goods from India. Béatrix was also present but managed to escape. The fight lasted two hours and Brave sustained 8 killed and 14 wounded (p.224).

Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:24, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

PS: you probably also have access to it, in fact, since it is available through the Wikimedia Library [2]. Rama (talk) 19:31, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Wow. Following your lead, I found it in the WP Library. And it gives the page numbers. Super. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 21:27, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 11

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Prince de Neufchatel, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Roy Cross.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:08, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Roy Cross

Hi Rama, I noticed the changes you made to Prince... and clicked through to Roy Cross. Any idea why his original artwork for Airfix was destroyed? Was it just that nobody considered it worth saving, or was there an accident? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:45, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

I am afraid that my book does not say, perhaps the answer is in the book about Airfix. But I heard that Science-Fiction publishers would leave the original cover art by some now quite famous artists simply lying around, which were later saved by more savvy amateurs, so your hypothesis sounds quite likely.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:29, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me. I would not be surprised if my hypothesis were correct. A friend's father was a commercial artist for Disney, and the work belonged to the company. Original cels are now available, and of course they carry no attribution. Of course, they are of limited originality. Still, I bet a lot of work by commercial artists has simply disappeared into the garbage. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 16 March 2023

Hi Rama, I have just put up Chesterfield (1806 ship). There are three French privateers named. Does Demerliac have any information about San Josef, and most importantly, Epervier? Also, Chesterfield became the Cherbourg privateer L'Aigle. I have Demerliac info about L'Aigle but would appreciate your checking that my info is correct. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:44, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

• San Josef: The spelling would probably be San Joseph, but I have no ship by that same with compatible dates.
• Épervier: Probably no 1860, p.252: a privateer commissioned in Dieppe in 1810 under Captain Bonamy, who made a signle cruise in 1810. She was then sold and made another cruise in February 1811 with 55 men and 16 guns.
• Aigle: (also misspelt Agile), no 1954, p.259: privateer commissioned in Cherbourd in 1811. Two cruises (1811 to March 1812 and later in 1812 to September 1812) under Alexandre-William Black with 61 men and 14 guns. Taken by HMS Sybille in September 1812.

Gallois has a biography of Black in Les corsaires français sous la République et l'Empire, p.254 and subsequent. He reports that in March 1812 Aigle captured the 130-ton Peavert loaded with leather and almonds.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:02, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. The info from Gallois was particularly interesting. Unfortunately, Peavert is probably a misspelling; it just doesn't sound English. I couldn't find any reasonable approximation in Lloyd's Register. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:45, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Bogdablock

Template:Bogdablock has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:52, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 27 February 2022

Hi Rama: Hope all is well with you. I just put up an article on Air Balloon (1784 Hull ship). In 1797 the French privateer Hawk captured her off Norway. I think Hawk, or her name in French, was a privateer lugger operating out of Calais. Does Demerliac have anything on her? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:46, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

I'll sleep when I'm dead, but I should hardly think that I am the one to complain...

Hawk would be Faucon in French, but I do not have any matching ship.

Air Ballon, what a fascinating name!

Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:48, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for trying. It is a great name, which is why I detoured a little to write tht two of them up. Well, at some point we will get lucky again. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:44, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi Rama, I was just looking at Air Balloon (1784 Hull ship) again and saw that the name the French privateer that captured her was Emouchet, not Hawk. Does Demerliac have anything on Emouchet?. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:45, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello Acad Ronin,

Well, Today I Learned, as they say.

Émouchet (no 1902, p.231), privateer lugger built by Michel Colin-Olivier between 1795 and 1796, commissioned in Dieppe in April 1796. First cruise between April 1796 and March 1797 under François Clémence, with 12 guns; another cruise in 1797 under a Captain Tourneux.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:24, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Rama, excellent result. I added the info both to the Air Balloon article and to the article on HMS Albatross (1795) that I am preparing. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:25, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 6 July 2023

Hi Rama, I was adding some info to Chaser (1786 ship) and noticed that in 1795 the French privateer Libertie captured her. (The Spanish recaptured Chaser and she returned to British ownership.) Does Demerliac have anything on Libertie? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 09:45, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

Weirdly enough, I do not have any privateer of the name active in 1795, although I expect that dozens were active each year from 1790 to 1800. Could she have been a small naval ship, corvette or brig?

Cheers! Rama (talk) 10:01, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Great suggestion. I found a highly possible candidate privateer corvette that operated out of Guadeloupe in 1794–1795, so the relevant time-frame and theatre of operation. Thanks.Acad Ronin (talk) 17:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

French sources request 24 July 2023

Hi Rama, User:Broichmore approached me concerning these two files: La Mouche, and Cadiz. I can find nothing in my sources. It looks like both pictures are a tribute to a Captain Jn Adrian, first in 1799 as captain of the corsair Mouche, and second, in 1800, of the schooner Abeille. Does Demerliac have anything, or do any of your other sources? The English translation of the description under the first picture is pretty incoherent, probably due to a poor transcription of an almost as incoherent French description. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:19, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Please check my translation and date. Broichmore (talk) 08:51, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Broichmore: Apologies. Did not mean to impune your translation or transcription. I could not make any sense of the original text under the picture, and my attempt to translate the transcription made no sense either. Acad Ronin (talk) 15:52, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Me too. I ran it through Google and MS. I changed it since initial contact with you. Think the meaning is (my latest effort)": 'On 14th Germinal (July), year 7 (1799) of the French Republic in the lance of Colognia (Coast of Spain). Combat of the Corsair la Mouche armed with 8. guns. Cap Jh Adrian. Against a Cutter of 16 nine pounder guns for 4 hours, determined to resume his hold on Lavantoroso which the said Corsair had kidnapped from him the previous night when under his Escort'. My date needs checking. The inscription is very cryptic. Broichmore (talk) 09:16, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

• Mouche: The transcription looks about right, with the word cotte for what would now be written côte ("coast"). Similarly l'ance for l'anse (narrow bay). You have most of the meaning, I just tried to put the words in a more friendly order:

"On the 14 Germinal year 7 of the French Republic, in the Bay of Colonia on the coast of Spain, 4-hour long fight of the privateer Mouche, armed with an 8-pounder swivel gun, under Captain Jean Adrian, against a 16-nine-pounder gun cutter, to recapture the prize called Lavantoroso (?) which said privateer had captured the previous night while [the cutter] was escorting [the contested prize]."

The only privateer listed under that name with compatible dates was a privateer corvette from Bordeaux, much larger and stronger than the gunboat involved here, so no luck.

• Abeille: the transcription and translation are both quite good. The image depicts Abeille as she manages to sneak through the British blockade, a feat of sailmanship from which one could quite reasonably take pride.

Abeille (no 2425, p.296 of 1800-1815) was a French privateer commissioned in Cadiz in May 1800. She cruised under Captain J. Adrien, who came from Martigues, from May 1800 to January 1801. Sadly nothing more is said here.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:37, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

PS: 14 Germinal year 7 is 3 April 1799 of the Gregorian calendar. "Germinal" means "the month where plants bloom", so in spring; July covers parts of Messidor ("month of harvest") and Thermidor ("the month of heat"). Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:42, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Excellent. Many thanks. Alas the mouche is not No. 1, which would have been a coup. Broichmore (talk) 11:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Gentles: In the article Moucheron, there is mention of a privateer Abeille operating out of Cadiz in 1800. I am guessing that she is our Abeille. The picture with her running the blockade would make a good addition to the article. Unfortunately, Moucheron is too big to be Mouche. I am going to add the Demerliac description to the Moucheron article. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:35, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Another interesting picture

Hi Rama, Acad Ronin I just added a Cammillieri picture here, albeit temporarily. I'm wondering whether or not we have identified the ships correctly, especially the Englishman? Slight inconsistancies between Roux, Cammillieri and the article. Build date for Comtesse Emeriau? Coincidentally, this sailor also comes from Martiques. This article gives Comtesse and Princess for the name of the ship, I begin to wonder if we have the same pirate, even, for this and the previous messages about the Mouche? Another article _ Broichmore (talk) 17:36, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

OK. The English ship was Harvey, Atkinson, master, of 260 tons (bm), launched at Whitby in 1802. The English account of the capture is in Lloyd's List. "The Marine List". Lloyd's List. No. 4507. 2 November 1810. hdl:2027/hvd.32044105232938. Unfortunately, I can't find her in Wetherill's book on Whitby and its shipping. If I could, I would be willing to chance a small article on Harvey. A secondary source and a picture would go a long way to establishing notability. An English article on Countess Emerieau would be possible, but would take a long time to prepare. Between the picture and the French sources it would be OK. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC) Acad Ronin (talk) 19:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

The ship was named Comtesse Émeriau, or Comtesse d'Émeriau, feminine (i.e. "la", not "le"). Probably sucking u as an indirect hommage to Maxime Julien Émeriau de Beauverger who was maritime prefect of Toulon, and therefore in charge of authorising such ventures in the area. Émeriau was a Count in the nobility system of the First French Empire. "Princesse" is not listed in Demerliac, and would make no sense given the context.

Comtesse Émeriau (no 2479, p.300), privateer from Sète commissioned in September 1809. From September 1809 to June 1812 under J.-A. Ytier with 110 to 118 men, and 11 guns (5 carronades and 6 swivel guns). Captured in June 1812 by HMS Badger.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:30, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

French Naval Ship at sail

Hi Rama, Is there any value to uploading this image? Best regards. Broichmore (talk) 09:03, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

there is always value in such images, be it for the image itself. Now, of course, I am not sure that I see any French warship on this image, but that is another question...

Cheers! Rama (talk) 10:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll leave it for another. If it's a type I woud load it. I don't upload fantasy stuff, knowingly as a rule. Broichmore (talk) 14:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Volcan and Conception

Hi Rama, Acad Ronin, I got this picture a while ago and seperately a cropped detail of it. The institution got horribly mixed up on the title, they differ for both images. I believe this is The Pinco Conception in Battle with Xebec Le Volcan, 1804. The Volcan is flying a British flag, RN? Its not inconceivable that the names are mixed up against type here. I can't find the caption, its been chopped off. Any ideas? Broichmore (talk) 09:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Not quite clear what is in the canton of the flag of the xebec, but it certainly could be the Red Ensign.

In 1804 the Republic of Italy was an ally of France, so either Volcan was the literal name of the xebec but she was in the hands of an enemy of Italy, or Volcan is a translation.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:55, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

It's this pic, that shows the British flag? Dont know if you saw it? Broichmore (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Ah yes, the image I saw was lower resolution, this one leaves no doubt. Definitly the British Red Ensign. Rama (talk) 17:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

So far, I haven't been able to find a Volcano in Lloyd's Register or Lloyd's List. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 10 August 2023

Hi Rama, could you please see if Demerliac has anything on the following two privateers: 1}Jeune Adele in the article Pitt (1799 ship); 2) Legere, in the article Sultana (1787 ship)?. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:33, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

• Jeune Adèle (no 2745, p.321): privateer schooner commissioned in Guadeloupe circa June 1806, with cruises in June, October November of that year under a Captain Le Prieur with 61 men and 14 6-pounders.
• Légère: not quite certain but she might be no 2590 p.286: privateer from an unknown home port, operating in the Mediterranean from April 1799, captured by HMS Flora on 28 April 1799.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 07:53, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Both useful, particularly Jeune Adele. It is unusual that we have useful info from the Caribbean. I have added the info to the two articles. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:01, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I was impressed to see how much you managed to gather about Légère, you have much more than Demerliac! Rama (talk) 12:28, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I have to credit Google, and particularity Google books. Regard, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:22, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of 203mm/55 Modèle 1931 gun

The article 203mm/55 Modèle 1931 gun has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This weapon did not exist, Conway's 1922-1946 and French Cruisers 1922-1956 all state Algerie only had the modele 1924. The only "modele 1931" is the turret mounting used on Algerie which is already mentioned in the modele 1924 article. And from going through a few books on the French cruisers, Naval Weapons of World War Two seems to be the only book that actually mentions its existence (Jane's Fighting Ships also mentions an improved gun, but doesn't provide any details other than "better shells and longer range", which the other 2 books (and even Naval Weapons) state is because of newly introduced shells in the late 1920s/early 1930s) and is probably the origin of this misconception

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 14 August 2023

Hi Rama, in 1798, A French privateer named Zeliee, or Zele, captured Betsey (1790 ship), and I am hoping that Demerliac has something on the privateer. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

In 1806, the privateer Guadaloupienne captured Ariadne. Does Demerliac have anything on Guadaloupienne?. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:02, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

• Zélé (no 2293, p.263), a privateer from Nantes commissioned in December 1798. Cruise from December 1798 under René-Joseph Salaun until captured by HMS Melpomene on 28 February 1799.
• Gouadeloupéenne: I have no ship of that name or close that matches the date, sorry.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:01, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. A 50% hit rate is not bad for what we are doing. By the way, how would you translate the phrase, "La Zele amarina La Charlotte"? I found a small reference to Zele in Nicolierre-Teijero's book on the Nantes corsairs, but am not sure how to translate that. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:48, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

"Zélé took possession of Charlotte". A rather special sense for "amariner" that few native speakers would know, assuming they would know that verb at all. Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Thought so. Interestingly, neither Google translate nor Bing had any clue. So clearly, a very unusual use. Nicolierre-Teijero's book was published in 1896, and was specialized, so unsurprising that he used it. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:47, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 25 August 2023

Hi Rama: in 1807, the French privateer General Ferrand captured Beaver (1796 ship). In 1793, the English privateer Resolution (1793 privateer) captured two French vessels, St Jean de Lone, which may have had a letter of marque, and Vigie, which was a privateer. Also, in 1799, Resolution recaptured a vessel that the French privateer Bellona had captured. Does Demerliac have anything about these four vessels? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 10:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

An editor has suggested that Port au Prince (1790 ship) was the former French privateer Général Dumourier. Can Demerliac shed any light on this? Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

• Général Ferrand: no 2714, p.318: privateer commissioned in Saint-Domingue from December 1806 to April 1807
• St Jean de Lone: Nothing about her I fear
• Vigie: 2157, p. 251: a privateer schooner from an unknown home port, active in the Channel in 1799 with 71 men and 14 guns. Captured by Resolution on 25 May 1799.
• Bellona: probably named Bellone, but I do not have a compatible entry.
• Général Dumourier: I have three entries:
  • Général Dumourier: no 2337, p.266 was a privateer from Bordeaux under a Captain Bernard Dihins (or Dihinx), with 196 men and 22 6-pounders. A British squadron captured her off the Azores on 15 April 1793, and brought her to Portsmouth, where she was broken up in search of Spanish gold captured from a galleon that was tough to be hidden on board. A rather romantic story, but that rules her our as a candidate.
  • Général Dumourier or Grand Dumouriez: no 2897, p.308 a privateer commissioned at Mauritius in July 1793 under Gabriel-Vincent Burguez
  • Dumourier: no 2965, p. 314, a privateer from an unknown homeport, commissioned in 1795 with 180 men and 20 guns. She was catpured by HMS Phaeton in 1795.

Demerliac suspects that 2897 and 2965 could in fact be the same ship. Since neither 2337 nor 2965 have fates compatible with what I see in the article, it might be that 2897 was in fact not 2965 and is the ship Port au Prince; or that we are about another ship entirely that went below Demerliac's radar. I am afraid I cannot be more conclusive from these records.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 07:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

I was able to use the info on General Ferrand and Vigie. Unfortunately, none of Demerliac's Général Dumourier, is ours, not even no.2897. Our Général Dumourier was captured in April 1793 in the Caribbean. Still, we did have two hits. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Demerliac request 8 September 2023

Hi Rama, two requests, please. 1) Cambridge (1797 ship) was captured by French privateer Braave. We have info about an earlier Braave, but apparently not about this one. 2) HMS Diligent. Does Demerliac have anything on the French privateer Diligente, which became the Royal Navy vessel? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:44, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello,

I will not be able to access my library for some time, but I will come back to you as soon as I can.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:13, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello Acad Ronin, I have surfaced again.

• Brave (no 2281, p.286): Three-masted, 175-tonne British packet boat King Georges, captured by Représailles on 31 July 1803 and commissioned as a privateer at Bordeaux in February 1804. 18.8 metres at the keel, 7.1 metre beam and 4.2 metre draught. Under Louis-Joseph Quoniam with 98 to 120 men, with 16 guns (8 12-pounders and 8 12-pounder carronades). Sold at Vigo to Lapeyre, re-rigged as a schooner, renamed Boléro, and commissioned as a privateer with 14 3-pounder guns. Sold to Pierre Labat, from Bayonne, in December 1806, renameed Atrevido and recommissioned in January 1807 at Santander or at Bayonne. As Atrevido (no 2366, p.292), under Jean-Marie Cochet with 120 men and 16 guns (8 6-pounders and 8 12-pounder howitzers) from January 1807 to October 1807. Another cruise under the same from November 1807 to April 1808 with 18 guns (8 6-pounders, 4 4-pounders and 6 12-pounder howitzers). Decommissioned in April 1808 and sold to Bordeaux shipowner Paul Lafargue in May 1809.
• Diligente (no 1165, p.143): lugger-rigged naval gunboat, probably built at Govino in Corfu between 1809 and 1811. Laid down in March 1810, commissioned on 25 June 1810 with 1 officer and 37 to 40 men with 1 12-pounder gun, 1 4-pounder and 3 swivel guns. Captured by HMS Cephalus on 6 January 1813 between Corfu and Otranto.

There is no privateer from Marseille with compatible dates that I could propose as an alternative and the dates do not match, so I am uncertain what is happening there.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:52, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:21, 28 November 2023 (UTC)