User talk:Poiutredsa

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Happy editing! DarmaniLink (talk) 12:02, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome and for the tips! Poiutredsa (talk) 12:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

"some info about ordinary LGBTQ individuals' condition in Gaza" edit

I appreciate your recent edit on the LGBT rights in the State of Palestine page, but I ended up removing your link to the Haaretz article, as it appeared to be a case of cherry picking, with experiences of a small number of queer people universalized to apply to ALL queer people in Gaza. Including it is not fair to the readers and goes against rules toward neutrality, i.e. WP:NPOV. The other chapter, which you summarized as "under Hamas, the police offers no protection from queerphobic domestic violence" was inaccurate, since there was much more going on in the article. I kept that chapter, but also added another chapter that same scholar wrote. It now reads as:

Scholar Timea Spitka stated that in Gaza, coming out is a "death sentence" because police don't act, domestic violence isn't illegal, and civil society organizations, which protect women and children, are reported to be "vulnerable to attack." Spika added, in a related article, that this vulnerability has "been exploited by Israel," noting a connection between the Israeli occupation, lack of security and protection for women and non-heterosexual people, and lack of rule of law.

It is important to bring in Spika's other article, as she cited it in the 2023 chapter. I recommend you also read the List of fallacies page as well. I hope this is helpful. Historyday01 (talk) 19:20, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I appreciate the feedback and tips :) . Since the only info about the situation in Gaza was the execution of that Hamas military leader, I went on looking for some info about ordinary people as well. I only found Spitka's paper and two newpapers (Haaretz and i24).

As for your edit, maybe "domestic violence isn't illegal" is too generic for the article, imo "queerphobic" should stay. One way of putting it might be "...police don't act against queerphobic violence, domestic violence isn't adequately addressed and sanctioned...": I believe that violence ("causing bodily harm", "rape" and such) is illegal on paper; this phrasing also clarifies what it is that police doesn't act about when/if queer people come out.

Haaretz: it usually has a good fact-checking (unlike i24, which I didn't include). Upon some reflection, I agree it universalizes a bit too much, but I still think it sheds some light on the complexity of the situation: no death sentence or long prison sentences by authorities, but rather, in some cases, short term detainment, harassment, and then authorities let families "deal with it". If this is true at least for some queer people, maybe it could stay, though rephrased in a less generic way so that the reader knows it's not the experience of all queer people in Gaza. Something like: "In 2019 Haaretz inteviewed four gay men and one gay woman in Gaza: one man recounted being arrested, violently questioned, and then released after reporting alleged homosexual activities by Fatah members, which he believed Hamas would weaponize against them; others feared they may be arrested and then outed to their own families, who may subsequently force them into an heterosexual marriage; resorting to social media to meet other LGBTQ individuals was described as "a game changer", although some feared catfishing by undercover Hamas or Israeli intelligence agents." The forced marriage issue is also consistent with Spitka's paper. Please let me know what you think about it, either way I'm not going to edit about this without your feedback because I've noticed some edit warring and it doesn't agree with me. Poiutredsa (talk) 20:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I just re-added the Haaretz article with this edit, which incorporates most of the language you proposed here. I do think your recent edit is a good one that definitely helps. Historyday01 (talk) 18:26, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi, thank you! I made small edits to your text: Haaretz source states the rough treatment was by Hamas, and that this person was forced to report alleged Fatah's homosexual activities; also, clarifying who if forcing heterosexual marriage is important because, in that context, the reader might think authorities are doing it, which is incorrect. Poiutredsa (talk) 21:35, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Possible vandalism? An IP just removed the whole "sodomy" provision from the legal section of the article, only leaving the "against nature" provision, claiming it's "confusing" and "unrelated to homosexuality". But since it names explicitly sodomy, making it illegal only if non-consensual, it is relevant. And it's the reason why some scholars argue the code "could be interpreted as allowing homosexuality", as stated below in that same section. I will revert the edit, but I keep thinking the article should be protected... Poiutredsa (talk) 21:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC)