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Compressor

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Hi Amclaussen, Centrifugal stages are widely used on todays smaller aircraft engines both on their own and as a final stage after some axial stages.

Perhaps mention could be made in the article (unless the title is changed to Axial Compressor Map)that the maps shown also apply in general form to other turbomachinery configurations like centrifugal stages, mixed axial/centrifugal (ie anything in between the two extremes), overall maps for combined axial and centrifugal (as mentioned above, I have one in front of me as I write), turbocharger impellers.

Also, as you point out, mention could be made that the surge mechanism (as best understood today) is basically similar for both axial and radial turbomachines, except that for c/f stages the situation is more involved because one or both of the two main components (impeller and diffuser) may stall individually or simultaneously. A reference should be given here both to confirm the source of the info and to allow follow-up study, so ref 'Rotating Stall and Surge Control: A Survey by Bram de Jager'.

If I can take the liberty of answering your question... Isentropic (or adiabatic) efficiency appears to be the norm for compressor maps if you look at any compressor test results available on-line or in books, eg 'Axial Compressor Development at Rolls-Royce Derby, 1946-1962' by A. McKenzie. The author of the article does say ' some maps use polytropic efficiency' so that allows the learner to follow up the distinction easily on line.

Pieter1963 (talk) 01:14, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Pieter1963, good luck. --Fnlayson (talk) 19:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Propelling nozzle (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Reference errors on 29 January

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Steam engine question

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Hello. Could you tell me what this would have been used for? ST1849 (talk) 02:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what that might have been.Pieter1963 (talk) 22:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, ok. Do you know anyone else I could ask on here? ST1849 (talk) 23:09, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not on Wikipedia. You could try this forum https://www.smokstak.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7 Pieter1963 (talk) 23:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the link. It might be worth a try. ST1849 (talk) 15:15, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Jet engines

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Hi Pieter. I have just stumbled on three articles that look ripe for deletion: Corrected flow, Corrected fuel flow and Corrected speed.

What do you think? Delete or merge with an existing major article? Dolphin (t) 08:38, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Dolphin (t), Delete as separate articles. Don't merge, as-is, with an existing article. I don't think they have any value to the intended wiki reader as currently written. I don't think even the word parts are much help for someone who doesn't already know the subject.
I think they should be replaced by short and basic explanations in the appropriate article which has to include all gas turbines, not just aircraft. Would a reader want to know anything about these terms? Corrected speed, as on compressor map, stands out as something every Blackbird enthusiast needs to know if they don't want to get the wrong end of the stick (bypass bleed, that is). Maybe an airline passenger would like to know how these terms figure in the decision to remove the left hand engine at the end of their flight?
compressor map links to corrected speed and flow so what happens there if the articles are removed? Cheers Pieter1963 (talk) 19:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think I have made a rod for my own back with my suggestion so will see if I can come up with anything worthwhile if you agree. Pieter1963 (talk) 13:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Sorry for the delay in replying. I must have been distracted by something else. Dolphin (t) 02:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm doing some reading so I can edit compressor map to accommodate the deletions. Will let you know. Pieter1963 (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Dolphin (t) 21:27, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have added the gist of the above-mentioned 3 articles to Compressor map. They really belong, as is, in Jet engine performance although they apply to every type of gas turbine, turbocharger, industrial compressor. Hope that helps. Cheers.Pieter1963 (talk) 18:50, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for letting me know. I will peruse these articles in the next few days and give you my thoughts. Dolphin (t) 04:06, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I said "in the next few days" but here it is 7 months later! I plan to delete the three articles using the speedy delete process. Before doing so, I will track down the blue links and de-activate them, or redirect to Compressor map. Dolphin (t) 11:28, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Very good. It was a labour of love.Pieter1963 (talk) 15:25, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

On second thoughts, deleting these three titles is undesirable because each one is legitimate and suitably described in a major article (Compressor map?) Instead, the appropriate course of action is to convert each of these three to a redirect. I propose:

Do you have any comments or suggestions before I go ahead? Dolphin (t) 13:27, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think you could go ahead as suggested.Pieter1963 (talk) 23:44, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have now converted these 3 articles to Redirects. See:
Corrected flow: diff, diff
Corrected fuel flow: diff, diff
Corrected speed: diff, Talk:Corrected speed
Thanks for all your help! Dolphin (t) 07:06, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I went to Glossary of aerospace engineering and removed "Corrected flow" and "Corrected speed" because they are now just redirects. I also inserted a brief description into "Compressor map" - see my diff. My brief description is probably very amateurish! Feel free to expand and refine my description. Dolphin (t) 11:53, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Vampire Speed Brakes

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Hi Pieter, I think your amendment re the "airbrakes" in Vampire is wrong, in spite of Blackman. The speed brakes (as we knew them) were very effective in getting into position, and "sliding past" was simply a function of inexperience in their use.Lexysexy (talk) 23:33, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Further to the above, and re-reading your quote, the use of the word "throttles" suggests that Blackman was referring to the Meteor. You can't necessarily transfer that thought bubble between aircraft.Lexysexy (talk) 23:38, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings. Thank you for sharing first-hand knowledge. The comment itself is not sourced so I looked for some confirmation. All I found was what seemed to be a contradiction. He was referring to flying the Vampire 5 with the 2nd TAF (throttles being his and his wingman's). Maybe he got better at it. Since I presume not all air brakes were created equal, eg giving a Javelin's 1g deceleration (ref Bernard Noble "Properly To Test"), it really needs to be sourced.Pieter1963 (talk) 22:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have participated in numerous discussions on Wikipedia about airbrakes and spoilers. I have seen numerous examples of Users ascribing a single purpose for the installation of airbrakes or spoilers on an aircraft type. My view is that these drag-increasing devices are very useful and serve different purposes in different phases of flight. I am always sceptical when I see a suggestion that an aircraft is equipped with brakes or spoilers for just one purpose, or for use in just one phase of flight.
Jet engines have a relatively slow response time following movement of the thrust levers so one of the functions of brakes or spoilers is to allow the aircraft to decelerate quickly without the pilot having to retard the levers and allow engine speed to decay. This feature is highly desirable in formation flying, and presumably also when attacking a slower enemy aircraft and doing so from the rear.
The British Aerospace 146 has clamshell doors on the rear fuselage. This aircraft engages in neither formation flying nor combat; the airbrakes are beneficial in keeping drag high on the landing approach so the speed stability of the aircraft remains positive. Dolphin (t) 04:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lockheed JetStar's pivoting tail

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Hi Pieter. In this edit at Vertical stabilizer#Pivoting tail you described the Lockheed JetStar's pivoting tail and wrote "The fin pivots about its rear spar to provide longitudinal trim."

If the fin pivoted about its rear spar it would provide directional trim, not longitudinal trim. Perhaps what is meant is "The fin pivots about the rear spar of the horizontal stabilizer to provide longitudinal trim." Could you clarify this sentence?

The Mooney M20 uses an identical arrangement, as described at Mooney M20#Design, where it says “The entire tail assembly pivots at the rear of the fuselage to provide pitch trim.” These words might provide greater clarify in your paragraph about the JetStar. Dolphin (t) 13:01, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your feedback. Over the last 40 years I have saved a few articles from various magazines including Flight. I never thought their archive would one day no longer be available, only temporary I hope. It just so happens I have one on the Jetstar with a cutaway. It enables a bit more precision than rear of fuselage fortunately.Pieter1963 (talk) 19:09, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. It goes to show we should never discard an aeroplane magazine! It might come in handy one day. Dolphin (t) 21:17, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Editing only the lead in an article

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Further to my reply to you today at Talk:Swept wing: To be able to edit only the lead of an article (as opposed to having to select the entire article) I recommend you avail yourself of the relevant option. This is done by selecting the Preferences tab at the top of your screen. Then select Gadgets from the grey option bar. Then scroll down to Appearance. The first option box says “Add an edit link for the lead section of a page.” Tick that box, then scroll down until you see the Save button, and press.

Now when you view any article you will see an “edit” option alongside the title of the article. If you click on it, an edit box will open and it will contain the text of the lead only, not the text of the entire article. In the case of the article Swept wing it should allow you to edit without being troubled by the template warning. Dolphin (t) 00:23, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, when I posted here on your Talk page I didn’t realise you had already replied to me at Talk:Swept wing. If you let me know what change you want to make to the lead I will try doing it for you. At least it will clarify the situation in my mind. You could post your proposed change here on your Talk page, or on a personal sandbox. Dolphin (t) 01:20, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I now have the edit option alongside the title so that's good. For some reason, today was the first time I have ever seen that warning. Thanks for your help.Pieter1963 (talk) 01:42, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Today is the first time I have seen that warning too! Perhaps it is a new development. Dolphin (t) 01:59, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on Propelling Nozzle

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Hello Pieter,

I've seen you handle large part of editing in the "Propelling Nozzle" page. I think a brief discussion on automatic control of variable geometry nozzles should be included. Could you give me your opinion on the topic?

Kind regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by UASLab (talk • contribs) 21:57, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Let me do some reading. I'll see what I can find and whether it is what you would like.Pieter1963 (talk) 23:20, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Wind tunnel

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Thanks for taking an interest in our article on the Wind tunnel. It is not well written and deserves a lot of fine tuning.

The first of your two edits was to the section titled How it works. To explain how a family of machines, including wind tunnels, work the text should focus on operating principles, common characteristics and universal features. Your edit amended the first paragraph to insert details of one atypical wind tunnel (a 24 x 36 tunnel in the USA.) I don’t think this is appropriate in the section focussing on how the wind tunnel works, and certainly not in the first paragraph. Could you re-visit your work on this article and do some refining? Thank you. Dolphin (t) 23:50, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't particularly like what I have just done. It's easy to nit-pick other peoples contributions but difficult to originate something. I'll keep at it though. I appreciate any pointers, etc.Pieter1963 (talk) 00:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Pieter. Here are some thoughts on the section “How it works”.
Firstly, it looks like a student essay in which some students have written everything they know about wind tunnels. The section title “How it works” will be very attractive to readers who know little about wind tunnels but are curious and keen to find out. The section should be written in language that is appropriate to the prior knowledge held by these readers.
The section uses relatively high level terms and expressions like the following:
  • test section, and test article
  • settling chamber
  • higher Mach number testing
  • nozzle profile
  • converging-diverging nozzle
  • sonic throat
  • real-time values
There is an implication that if readers are to gain some understanding about how a wind tunnel works, they must first understand, or at least be comfortable with, terms and expressions like those I have listed above. We know that is not correct.
Conversely, we know that people who understand the terms and expressions listed above already have a good understanding of how a wind tunnel works and are unlikely to be attracted to read the section.
In the first paragraph there is a sentence “The fan is downstream of the test section ...” Later in the section there is another sentence correctly explaining that the fan is usually upstream of the test section, and explaining how turbulence in the test section is minimized.
The second paragraph of the section begins with the sentence “Classifications include size of test section and speed in the test section.” This sentence tells readers nothing about how a wind tunnel works.
The section now contains an excellent, simple diagram of an open-circuit tunnel with an induced draft fan. I suggest the section “How it works” should start with this diagram and use it to explain how a tunnel works, using the words, expressions and concept that are likely to be understood by an audience that is attracted to the section by its title. It may be unnecessary to proceed to more complex types of tunnel such as closed-circuit tunnels and supersonic tunnels.
An essential element of how a tunnel works is the concept of a scale model being tested to obtain valid data in a fraction of the time, and at a fraction of the cost, of testing a full-size example of the test article. Dolphin (t) 13:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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