User talk:Nikpapageorgio

Welcome!

Hello, Nikpapageorgio, and welcome to Wikipedia! My name is Ian and I work with Wiki Education; I help support students who are editing as part of a class assignment.

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 13:07, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Notes

Hi! I have some notes on your draft:

• This has some issues with original research. For example, you use a quote from this article by Clover for the quote "killer as feminine male and the main character as masculine female". This is somewhat original research since the passage isn't really about transfeminine people. It's more about how traditional gender roles and tropes changed during the 80s, as previously women were typically in passive roles where they waited to be saved and posed little viable threat to the killer. (Think Barbara from Night of the Living Dead.) During the 80s writers began to move away from the idea of women as helpless damsels in distress and began writing them as characters who could fight and defend themselves. (Think Ripley from Alien and Ginny from Friday the 13th part 2.) As the killers were now being "hunted" and fought by women, this put the killers in a feminine role of "hunter becoming the hunted". Generally speaking, pre-80s you really only saw women overtaking the killer when they were also women, as in the case of films like Suspiria. It wasn't unheard of to have a woman character fighting off the bad guy, but it wasn't as common. Films like Black Christmas were kind of an outlier and a sign of this shift in gender roles. I can see why you picked it out and in a research paper it would be a good one to use, but on Wikipedia it's original research since we're making a new conclusion that wasn't really intended by the author. There is a mention in the article (using the now outdated term "transsexual") in passing but it would be difficult to use since it's such a relatively brief mention.

You also used a film as an example. This is problematic because at most all we could do is list the film along the lines of "Horror films featuring transgender characters include X, Y, and Z." We can't use the film itself to create scholarly critique. Even summarizing it could be seen as a bit of original research, as the question then is why we're putting emphasis on this film over others. We can only summarize what others have written about the topic in independent, reliable sources.

• Branching off a bit here, with a subject like this it's better to show how transgender people have been generally represented in horror as opposed to describing specific characters and films. This shows how a transgender person was represented in this film, but doesn't really show how transgender people have been represented as a whole. This is where it gets kind of tricky, as finding sourcing for this is going to be harder than finding coverage that just focuses on specific roles.

• Avoid using terms like 'notable', as this can be seen as subjective to the reader. While the film roles are honestly some of the most well known examples, someone could argue that they're less well known than some other role with which they are more familiar. It's also kind of non-neutral.

• Make sure that any claims are attributed. For example, the Sleepaway Camp section uses a source but is not attributed. If this is what the author has stated in the source material, it should be attributed more clearly to show that we're not drawing a new conclusion.

• Now looking at the sourcing from a "is it usable as a reliable source or not" without looking at whether it could be used for the section, some of it is problematic. Articles published in a scholarly, academic journal or press is almost always going to be reliable and usable. 14 East is kind of iffy. It has an editorial person, but in order to show it's usable we'd have to be able to establish how it's reliable - this is usually done by showing where it's been covered by other outlets, used as a reliable source (especially by scholarly and academic sources), or won any notable awards. It's run by college students, however most student run publications are considered to be unreliable unless we can prove its reliability. Gayly Dreadful is probably reliable, but blogs are typically not the strongest sources to use.

My recommendation is to turn this into a more general section. If we can find sourcing that covers transgender characters in horror as far as transfeminine and transmasculine goes, we could be more specific, but otherwise this is likely going to have to be more of a general section. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 20:34, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

• I will see what I can find, but offhand most of this is likely going to be incredibly generalized and likely focusing on transgender women as a whole. Representation of transgender men in film, even negative representation, is more rare, particularly in horror, where per my own experiences as a viewer they're usually represented as either killer or damsel in distress. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 20:37, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

• OK, looking at a source that covers Clover's source, I can see more why you used it. I'm going to use that source to more clearly define the quote. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 20:48, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
• I hope you don't take any of this negatively, this isn't meant to be harsh - you have good base research here as a whole and you've hit the main points, it just needed reworking and I wanted to explain the changes I made. Writing for Wikipedia is a lot different than most other writing as in almost all other forms of writing synthesizing and creating new connections is not only accepted, it's what you should be doing. It's really difficult to shift styles and it's something I struggled with at first as well. Feel free to adapt, alter, and work on the changes I made. For example, I did away with the subsections since there wasn't really enough on trans-masculine characters to really make for a separate section. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 22:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

  Thank you so much for your feedback. Not offended at all and really see the benefits of all the changes. Writing for wikipedia IS hard. Started this section as a class assignment and its been an eye opening experience. Nikpapageorgio (talk) 17:14, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Nikpapageorgio/Gender in horror films moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Nikpapageorgio/Gender in horror films, is not suitable as written to remain published. There is already an article at Gender in horror films. Please add the content of this article there. I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 03:46, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Gender in horror films

Hello, Nikpapageorgio. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Gender in horror films, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 10:01, 3 March 2023 (UTC)