User talk:Nightstallion/λ

Style guidelines for Japanese names and Itcho Ito

"# (cur) (last) 12:38, 18 April 2007 Nightstallion (Talk | contribs | block) m (moved Itcho Ito to Itchō Itō over redirect: follow WP style guidelines)"

No, because that is NOT what the style guidelines say!

From Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)

"Macron usage in the name of a modern figure should adhere to the following, in order of preference:

1. Use the official trade name if available in English/Latin alphabet;
2. Use the form found in a dictionary entry from a generally-accepted English dictionary;
3. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in the English-speaking world;
4. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in any other popular Latin-alphabet-using language (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, and Dutch, or variations); or
5. If none of the above is available, use the macronned form."

Nightstallion, macrons are instantly ruled out by this criteria. WhisperToMe 15:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Montenegrin crisis

...has just begun (just like I predicted).

Today "Montenegrin Orthodox Church" officials and supporters (classified as "ultranationalists and extremists") tried to seize control of the Cetinje monastery and evict the Serbian Orthodox Church officials, but as the police prevented them, and they laid siege to the monastery. Parts of the mass screamed "Die, Risto [Archbishop of Montenegro and the Littoral] Satan!" and "Chetniks, get the f**k out of Montenegro!" and tried to break through the police wall several times. There were only few minor injuries.

After several offensives failed, the angry mob left and attacked a small Chapel just outside Cetinje. They managed to secure control over the Church's grounds from the security forces, but militia reinforcements managed to push them out of the building itself. The "Head of All Montenegrin" has held a liturgy on the grounds and held a speech characterized by the media as "nationalist rhetoric". He said that Montenegro is now an independent country and that it should have its own Church and not one belonging to a former country. He also said that anyone that supports the SOC (75% of the population) cannot be a Montenegrin, but only a member of the Serb national minority in Montenegro and that the overwhelming presence of the SOC gives the image of Montenegro as a Serb nation-state, which it isn't.

The self-proclaimed Montenegrins' Patriarch has also stated that he might've lost the battle, but that this is just the beginning of the war and invited the Montenegrin government to support it, threatening that it will ask the international circles for intervention too.

Only the facts that Montenegro has no military whatsoever (more than 90% of the war machinery Montenegro handed over to Serbia after independence proclamation) and that private arms possession is prohibited prevent the escalation of open civil war. This way've got only mass civil unrest and disorder (thankfully).

The Montenegrin authorities harshly commented the incident and advised the MOC to stop with the destabilization of Montenegro and to go to other, peaceful and legal ways, to further its goals. --PaxEquilibrium 21:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

If the para-military unit known as the "Lovcen Guards" under Jevrem Brkovic's command runs in front of the support of the "Docleo-Montenegrin front" and fires the first shot, I can only think of the worst. the SRS and others already demand Serbian (armed) reaction. --PaxEquilibrium 22:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Speechless... or? ;X --PaxEquilibrium 21:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Frankly: yes. —Nightstallion (?) 21:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

What is the possible solution? --PaxEquilibrium 23:22, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I really have got no idea... What would you say? —Nightstallion (?) 06:44, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't be askin' you. ;) Anyway, perhaps just like Svetozar Marovic said, there can be only one church and that the problem will disappear when one of them disappears. --PaxEquilibrium 11:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

That is a possibility, yes. But until then... —Nightstallion (?) 09:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding "Exploratory Committees"

You're invited to comment at Template talk:United States presidential election, 2008 navigation, on this proposal:

Proposed Deletion of category "Exploratory" and "Declared" for individuals filing with FEC.

And please note this argument on the same talk page. Exploratory equals Candidate.

Best regards, Yellowdesk 07:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Serbia

Kostunica just drafted emergency control over 2 more municipalities (remember he already did that to one before), this time people aren't even shocked by his actions. ;)

Ve'abias (extremist islamic terrorists) continue to terrorize the Sandzak, further destabilizing the whole anarchic situation. --PaxEquilibrium 11:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm really afraid where this will lead... —Nightstallion (?) 11:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Conservative liberalism

The article conservative liberalism is highly chriticized now. What can we do about it? In my opinion there are both sources and evidences that there is such an ideology, different from liberal conservatism and social liberalism, and I think that is very important to differentiate the ideology of, say, VVD and D66, exactly as it is important to differentiate parties adhering to social democracy from those adhering to democratic socialism. This is one of the situations in which my English doesn't permit me to explain myself in a suitable way in Talk:Conservative liberalism, but I think that it is important to have an article on conservative liberalism. --Checco 07:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Both C_mon and I agree with you, so I don't think the article will simply vanish. I don't really know what more arguments the other side needs -- it's obvious to me that there's a fundamental difference, just as a reddish green is different from a greenish red... —Nightstallion (?) 07:30, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Gladly, Nightey! --Checco 21:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Italian Democratic Party

You wrote:

What happens now that the party congresses have agreed to found the PD? Will other parties join? When will the disagreeing correntoni break off? —Nightstallion (?) 18:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

And talking about the leaving correntoni, which ones are there for DS and DL? —Nightstallion (?) 04:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

My answer:

For now no other parties are to join the PD, but there are many associations and independent political figures who will be part of it. I don't know exactly what is the timeline of the foundation of the party, but in the news they said that in a month we'll have a promoting committee of the PD, in October the election of the national assembly and of the leadership of the party (maybe with open primaries) and in the Spring of 2008 the founding congress of the new party.

The two congresses were, in my opinion, very exciting: I listended to very interesting speeches and to fresh ideas. More there is a clear will of distancing from the extreme left of PdCI, Greens and PRC, and new course in the relationship between left and right: Berlusconi attended both congresses, was applauded (especially at the DS congress) and he himself shaked handsa and gave Fassino and Rutelli some enthusiastic applause. At the end Berlusconi said to agree to "the 95% of the speech" of Fassino, that Rutelli's performance was exceptional and that, if things are as they seem, he himself would join to the PD. This was a witty remark, but the relations between Berlusconi and Fassino-Rutelli seems very warm now. Also Maroni of the Lega Nord was an applauded guest of both congresses, while Fini and Casini took a hard line and attended only to the DL congress. Also H. Dean attended to both congresses, saying that half of his party is composed of social-democrats, so it is not a problem for the PD to join or not the PES.

The Correntone is a name for a internal faction of DS in 2001. As of today, only the faction of Mussi left the DS and will form a separate parliamentary group in May. Angius and his fellows has not yet decided what to do, but it is possible that this faction will split between those who will remain and those who will get out. DL did not suffer any split and will join completely to the new PD. --Checco 07:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Will other parties join it later? Sorry about the Correntone misunderstanding, I thought that it was simply Italian for "current". So Mussi will leave, Angius may leave or not. Any time plan for the new Socialist Party? —Nightstallion (?) 16:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if other parties will join later the PD. What is sure is that Italy of Values wants to enter and that Fassino tried repeatedly to convince Mussi's group and the SDI to be part of the PD. The Socialist Constituent assembly is expected in October. --Checco 16:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Italia dei Valori wants to join? Why don't they just do it, then? Thanks for the info! So it's October 07 for the Socialists and spring 08 for PD? Any news from the christian democratic minor parties and the republicans/reformers? —Nightstallion (?) 16:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No more news. --Checco 16:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 17:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

To be more precise, both Socialists and Democrats will form constituent assemblies by October 2007 and the two parties will be officially launched in Spring 2008. Obviously timelines could change, but it is very exciting: in a year the political landscape of Italy will change very much! --Checco 17:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

27 deputies, 12 senators (including Angius!) and at least 2 MEPs are leaving the DS. The Olive-Tree group membership will shrink from 218 members to 191 in the Chamber of Deputies and from 101 to 89 (note that some 6 Olive-Tree senators are in another group with SVP). I will inform you when I will have more news. --Checco 19:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

It is likely also that 3 DL senators will leave the Olive-Tree group and form a joint-group with IdV in order to support the IdV's entry into the PD and thus to make it larger. These 3 senators, Willer Bordon (ex-PCI/PDS, ex-AD/UD/Dem), Natale D'Amico (ex-PLI, ex-RI) and Roberto Manzione (ex-PRI, ex-CCD, ex-UDEUR), all members of the Italian Liberal Group at the LI, are committed liberals and strong supporters of PD, but they don't want it to be only a DS-DL merge. --Checco 10:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Very interesting, thanks! Why should there be a problem if IdV wants to join the PD? Why is this pressure group necessary? —Nightstallion (?) 15:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

In fact I don't know. Some years ago IdV was a populist, law-and-order and right-wing party, but now it has tempered its views and it is a very interesting political outfit (5% in the last opinion polls). In 2004 the SDI vetoed the entry of IdV in the Olive Tree list (because Di Pietro was one of the judges who "crashed" the PSI and because of his justicialist and anti-liberal views about justice), but now I can't understand what is problematic about it. I believe (and hope) that finally IdV will join the PD. --Checco 17:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that IdV's values and program changed quite dramatically... We'll see. Thanks for keeping me up-to-date! —Nightstallion (?) 17:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

We'll see. Anyway, I don't think that the values and the program of IdV changed dramatically. --Checco 18:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Mh... Well, at least as I've seen it from outside, they toned down the populism very much and turned from Christian-conservative to Christian-centre... —Nightstallion (?) 18:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Simply, as a populist party, IdV changes views and policies in order to follow the mood of the voters. In 2001 its message sounded to me hard-right, in 2004 they flirted with the far left, now they are objectively centrist. Anyway it is not a bad party and its values are clear: honesty, legality, law-and-order, transparency. --Checco 18:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The only thing that I would not say is that IdV is "Christian-something": they are conservative, but also secular and socially liberal. --Checco 18:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Oops, my bad, sorry. So, when will IdV likely join PD? When will the MPs and MEPs you mentioned leave the DS? —Nightstallion (?) 18:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It's been rumoured that apart from IdV, the PDM and the ERM will also join the PD? —Nightstallion (?) 19:03, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

And the UDC is still part of the CdL despite what it.wiki says, I know that, but what about the NPSI? it:Nuovo_Partito_Socialista_Italiano#L.27autonomia_e_la_Costituente_del_PSI states that with their plans to refound the PSI, they've turned their back on the CdL, which seems logical to me... —Nightstallion (?) 19:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

1) I think that IdV will join the PD when the PD will be founded. The splinters from DS will form the new groups in the Chambers on 5th May 2007. I don't know when they will form also a new party. As of today it seems that Mussi and Angius will form a single group, in the future Angius is very likely to join the SDI.

2) PDM, MRE and many local lists (as PS in Sardinia and CpP in Friuli) will defenitely join.

3) NPSI is defintely part of the opposition to the Prodi government. In June there will be a congress in which they will decide their future: Secretary De Michelis wants to collaborate with the SDI (but not with the centre-left), while Coordinator Caldoro wants to remain in the CdL. As of today I consider NPSI as part of the CdL. --Checco 19:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

2) PS = Sardinia Project? Which CpP? What other regional parties? Thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 21:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

2) PS = Sardinia Project, sorry. CpP is not a party but a citizen' list: many regional presidents promoted such lists: see President's list. I won't count them as a parties. --Checco 06:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see, thanks. I mentioned it in the article, nonetheless. —Nightstallion (?) 12:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Sarcozzy and Ve'habias

Considering that he's definitely going to become the new French President - is that good or bad for France and Europe in general?

BTW the Vehabias in the Serbian Sandzak have been captured, but a part fled with local aid to Montenegro. MNE will arrest them and trial them there for terrorism most probably, but one part fled to Kosovo, and Kosovo protects them. Serbia has no authority there to seize and contain them... --PaxEquilibrium 14:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I still hope Royal will win, because if Sarkozy wins, I believe it's going to be bad for France. Bayrou would have likely been the best for Europe, but Royal is a good second choice; I'd like to see some kind of PS/UDF alliance for the parliamentary elections, personally. Leftists and centrist pro-Europeans would be a great coalition. :) There's still hope, I think. —Nightstallion (?) 16:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do you think that Sarkozy will be bad for France? --Checco 16:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, a PS-UDF alliance would be very intringuing... it would be very similar to the nascent Democratic Party of Italy... --Checco 16:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe in relative terms, PS-UDF would be more in the centre of politics than the PD is, but in absolute terms, it may be about the same, yeah. —Nightstallion (?) 16:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion UDF is to the left of DL on many issues, anyway why do you think that Sarkozy would be bad for France? --Checco 17:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you really think so? Well, in absolute terms, yes, but in relative terms... I don't know, maybe you're right. As far as Sarkozy is concerned -- he's *VERY* close to being far-right, in my opinion, or at least has been willing to appear so in the campaign, and even many UMP party members are afraid that he is too much to the right even for their party... I think his law-and-order policies will only make the situation worse, he polarises *STRONGLY*, which is not a good characteristic for a president to have, and I'm not really certain that his will to reform *EVERYTHING* (including the sacred French social model) will do France good... —Nightstallion (?) 17:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I like Sarkozy and he is very popular among Italians, even among some leftists (including some members of DL and the Italian Radicals) who support him instead of Royal. About UDF I consider it more to the left of DL on moral, economic and welfare issues. --Checco 17:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I strongly dislike him, but one can't argue about taste, eh? ;) Well, yes, in absolute terms it's possibly to the left, but in relative terms (taking into account that Italy is far less secular and that France takes great pride in its social model), I think it could be argued either way. —Nightstallion (?) 17:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree with you both on tastes and on absolute/relative terms, but what I wanted you to know was not my personal opinion, but the fact that in Italy important centre-left newspapers and even politicians rallied behind Sarkozy. Strange Italy. --Checco 17:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'd also find it strange that the rightist politicians would come to congratulate the PD on its foundation... ;) —Nightstallion (?) 17:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it is normal in a normal democracy (and Italy is not normal) that politicians from the left and the right have a constructive relationship in order to make the interests of the whole country. Anyway Berlusconi is not right-wing as he is often described, he was formerly a Socialist voter, considers FI a centre-left party and tried many times to recruit Rutelli for his party. Fini, Berlusconi, Prodi, Ruelli and Fassino support bipolarism (and like very much American-style politics), and it is good for those who support bipolarism to have strong and big parties both on the left and the right. The only major party who contests bipolarism is UDC, whose leader Cesa proposed yesterday a government composed of PD, FI and UDC. --Checco 17:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

It would be completely unthinkable for a politician from party X to be present at party Y's congress, even for parties which are closer together on the political scale... —Nightstallion (?) 18:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

In Austria, maybe... In Italy parties traditionally invite all the political leaders and the delegations of all the parties to their congresses, but the confrontation between left and right was so harsh in the last fifteen years that Berlusconi attended to only two congresses of PDS/DS, the LN refused to go the congresses of all the centre-left parties until this year and some parties often decided not to invite party leaders of the opposite coalition. Now Italian politics is becoming less harsh and the invitation of Berlusconi at the last week congresses was considered a good sign by most political commentators. --Checco 18:34, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I see. —Nightstallion (?) 18:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Independent Scotland

Is Scotland slowly (peacefully) on its way to becoming an independent country?

As far as I see, things are improving in SNP's favor for ever since 1970s slowly, but progressively. Do you think an independent Kosovo could trigger the key point in Scotland? --PaxEquilibrium 21:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

They're currently improving rapidly, if you ask me. They're almost assured to be the largest party in the election, and if they're lucky, the Greens and Socialist will bring them near an independence majority... I doubt we'll see an outright majority for pro-independence parties, but I think the LibDems will *have* to talk about a referendum in coalition talks. Lab/LibDem for another four years is something the Scottish won't agree with... —Nightstallion (?) 14:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If you ask me, it's not good. Not good one bit. --PaxEquilibrium 15:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I beg to differ, for a simple reason -- the more smaller independent nations there are in Europe, the faster they will realise that they need a strong European Union... —Nightstallion (?) 15:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The reason why I have that opinion is personal experience from Balkanization (btw check out that article). No secession happened without bloodshed, atrocities and genocide in here (or unification for that matter). --PaxEquilibrium 16:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

That's true, but that won't be the case with Scotland; BTW, Montenegro separated without bloodshed. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 15:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Esperanto

I have absolutely nothing to say today, but I'm boring. So, allow me to waste my time and yours by asking you if you speak esperanto or if you tried to learn it in the past? Švitrigaila

I don't and have only considered to learn it in the past, but never tried. You? —Nightstallion (?) 14:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Not really. My best friend is a former president of the French association Espéranto Jeunes. I have much knowledge about the tongue and I know a lot of the members of the association... It's very easy to learn for me, because 80% of the words are French and I can read an article in esperanto without problems. But I don't like it. I think it's a very hideous language, and very difficult to pronounce. Švitrigaila 23:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's very easy to understand if you know a few Latin, Greek and Slavic words. I don't find the pronunciation difficult, but then again, there's no language that's really close to French pronunciation-wise except Occitan and Catalan... ;) —Nightstallion (?) 04:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't want it to have a pronunciation close to French. But I think it's impossible for a lot of people in the world to pronounce "sur la malgrandajn ŝrankojn" ("ŝr" is something I'm unable to pronounce myself). Languages like Japanese, Indonesian, Basque, and so on are far easier to pronounce. Švitrigaila 10:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Really? What's so difficult about the "ŝr" combination -- you have it just like that if you say le malgache rouge, right? And I wouldn't say Japanese is easy to pronounce, at least I hear it mispronounced far too often... —Nightstallion (?) 12:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I can pronounce Malgache rouge in French without any problem, but I pronounce it with a French accent, that is with a French unrolled r. But if you speak esperanto, you're supposed to roll the r. That's not the same sound. Švitrigaila 10:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Since Esperanto does by definition not distinguish between different "r" sounds, I believe that's not really a problem, is it? The way I understood it, Esperanto was designed to allow most people to keep most of the pronunciation specifics of their language while still making conversation easily possible... —Nightstallion (?) 12:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I clearly can't imagine how a Chinese or a Japanese could "keep most of the pronounciation specifics of their language" while trying to pronounce sur la malgradajn ŝrankojn. Švitrigaila 21:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know enough about Chinese, but for Japanese, I know that's possible -- simply use "suru ra maruguradain shirankoin". I'd venture Chinese would also be able to pronounce it close enough to be understandable. (Apart from that, Esperanto has a European bias.) —Nightstallion (?) 04:21, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

But suru ra maruguradain shirankoin is not sur la malgradajn ŝrankojn. It makes it unrecognizable. And what is true for Japanese is true for a lot of European languages too. Esperanto has German and Slavic bias, and it's too hard to pronounce for most people on the Earth. ... I'll stop to annoy you with this subject (and find another one if I have time...). Švitrigaila 10:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

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Sandzak Vehabias

Well we can at least agree on one thing... Serbia is officially becoming a western-style country... it has Islamic terrorists. ;(

BTW campaigning for the new parliamentary election in Serbia has already begun. --PaxEquilibrium 15:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Seriously? Have DS and DSS already conceded they'll not be able to form a government? —Nightstallion (?) 15:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

No, no; the SRS. They are already going "through the people" holding speeches and unofficially starting their campaign. Speak of the devil and Serb Radical claimes, (remember the "Tomislav Nikolic potential resignation), they openly announced that Kosovo will become independent (they're convinced DS wants harm to Serbia and Serbs and that it wants to hand-over Kosovo) and said that it will be the final drop the people will take - and that SRS will come into power then.

BTW what do you think on all the Vehabias matter? SDA seems to be still involved with them, which is another '-' to Kostunica's cabinet (which has become fully satanized in the past few weeks/months).

BTW Croatian elections: I don't know how to convince my uncle to vote at the parliamentary election for a major party (SDP), instead of SDSS. I myself personally see no point in national minority parties and think that it's just unbalanced vote squandering (but that's just me). Do you think that the minority parities rule is OK (why would'n't ethnic Hungarians, Serbs, Italians, Muslims, Jews or whomever else just join SDP - isn't that a better solution)? For example in Serbia DS has in the Parliament members of all major ethnic groups in Serbia (Hungarians, Rusyns, Slovaks, etc...). --PaxEquilibrium 16:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I personally think having a few seats reserved for minorities is important, but it shouldn't be a defining characteristic of the political system unless the circumstances call for it (as in Macedonia). —Nightstallion (?) 16:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Kosovo Independance

Do you think that Kosovo will declare independance ? And if they do, i expect them to enter ESC 2008 lol ! But, really do you think they'll declare independance from Serbia ? That'd be another country to qualify for the World Cup if it can get Affiliated with FIFA... Celticfan383 18:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Likely, all of that. —Nightstallion (?) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

AFAIK, the Albanian (note: majority) population of Kossovo declared independence from Serbia and Yugoslavia in 1990. However that did never achieved any recognition at all except from Albania, and in 1999 those same Albanian political leaders signed the Kumanovo Treaty that ended the Kosovo war, canceling the decision of the Kosovar Declaration of Independence and the Kosovar Independence referendum as well as the Constitution of the Republic of Kosova, forfeiting independence in favor of autonomy within the rump Yugoslav state.

However, the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government in Pristina will 100% undoubtedly proclaim independence this year (unless someone forces them not to, real hard) - this has nothing to do even with the Security Council's decisions. The transitional Kosovan authorities will declare independence in three months-to-half a year undoubtedly, regardless of any outer decision (or inner non-Albanian for that matter). --PaxEquilibrium

Very shocking news

President of New Serbia Velimir Ilić (Minister of Investments; 3rd man of the DSS-NS coalition) said that he no longer believes in the possibility of cooperation with DS and that Kostunica's current cabinet in resignation should concentrate on finding support from the SRS!!!

One of his proposals is that the current *bye-bye* government should find support from anyone it can as soon as possible to amass 126 votes. He proposes that Kostunica's cabinet be given a one year term, after which general national elections shall be held. In this time, he said that DSS-NS is willing to grant that which Tomislav Nikolic asked - the seat of the President of the National Assembly.

As you know, Kostunica can count on currently only on 86 (lol) of the 250 (uber-lol) seats of the parliament. --PaxEquilibrium 13:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'd say he's either desparate, an idiot, power-hungry, or secretly an SRS sympathiser... Either way, it's bad. How is his suggestion being regarded? —Nightstallion (?) 13:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

DS said that it expected this, and broke off all diplomatic relations with DSS. 2nd man in charge of DSS-NS (but still not yet Vojislav Kostunica himself, who strangely remains silent) has just confirmed that cooperation with SRS is the only option where there's still open things. SRS official miraculously remain... silent, refusing to comment anything.

If you ask me, this is only a tactic of DSS to force DS to be more "bendable" in the negotiations for the new government. On the other hand, I'm completely convinced NS is dead serious. --PaxEquilibrium 14:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

That's bad, if you ask me... —Nightstallion (?) 14:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Croatia

Shocking news were just broadcast on Croatian national television. Its a video of a session of Croatia's political leadership (headed by Franjo Tudjman) and the military leadership (with Ante Gotovina as the main figure).

In the video Franjo Tudjman and his closest associates and generals were conspiring a plan how to remove the entire, or most of, the Croatian Serb population. He states that an operation as fast as possible is needed, in order to evade or "jump before" any international reaction, and Tudjman explicitly mentions how he's planing to deceive the public by guaranteeing Serb national rights and expel them all from Croatia. The basis of the session was drawing a plan "how to strike at the Serbs so that the Croatian Serbs will immediately vanish from Croatia". Ante Gotovina presented operation plans on which the Croatian forces could seize the border to Bosnia and then pin them - but Franjo had enforced creating a "pocket" at the river of Una through which the Croatian forces could push the Krajina Serbs from Croatia into Bosnia.

ICTY announced that accusations for genocide might be added to Ante Gotovina and two other generals, and announced prosecution of HDZ members, some of whom are still in politics (and in the government). Carla del Ponte also said that Croatia vs Serbia [filed in 1991] genocide case (similar to the Bosnia vs Serbia recent genocide case that lasted in 1992-2007) is not good, considering that Croatia itself might face a Genocide accusation on a more firm basis - taking to granted that Genocide fully and entirely succeeded (unlike elsewhere in Yugoslavia, save for eastern Bosnia and Herzegovina).

Will this go bad for HDZ or good for 'em at the following election? --PaxEquilibrium 14:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I seriously hope it will be bad, but I frankly just don't know... —Nightstallion (?) 14:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do you think it could be good? --PaxEquilibrium 14:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I've seen first hand in my country how absurd racist and populist politicians can get more than a quarter of the vote, and I'm afraid similar things are entirely possible in Croatia, especially considering its historical and current ethnic diversity and resulting problems, whether real or only perceived as such... —Nightstallion (?) 14:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

What current ethnic diversity? --PaxEquilibrium 14:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I meant ethnic minorities. —Nightstallion (?) 14:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

..but Croatia barely has any national minorities... (not compared to any other ex Yugoslav country, except perhaps Slovenia). --PaxEquilibrium 14:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I know, but the fact that there are hardly any Slovenians left in Carinthia does not keep Carinthians from stupidly being afraid of a Slovenian takeover and voting for Haider, either... —Nightstallion (?) 14:52, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

However, this is the continuous problem for Croatia. --PaxEquilibrium 14:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

What do you think about the Montenegrin political system? I think that it was a one-party system in 1990-1998, then a two-party system and it is only right now beginning a multi-partial system (but still ever-Dominant Party system continuously). --PaxEquilibrium 15:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Most likely still a dominant-party system, but Norway has been one for all of its independent life and it hasn't hurt politics. —Nightstallion (?) 15:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

But only since last year's election. In 1990-1998 it was the sole political party of any importance (nearly all of the parliament), and in 1998-2006 a two-party system (half of the Parliament reigning, the other half in opposition). I find ridiculous especially how the opposition lost the chances at the Montenegrin parliamentary election, 2001, when Milo Djukanovic lost and the opposition already formed a Cabinet with Predrag Bulatović as Prime Minister and even had 50%+ support in the parliament. Was there any such insanely absurd case elsewhere in the world recorded? --PaxEquilibrium 16:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Just recently in Austria, the SPÖ *could* have governed being tolerated by Greens and FPÖ... But they were too cowardly, I believe. —Nightstallion (?) 16:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Compare Montenegrin parliamentary election, 2001 and Montenegrin parliamentary election, 2002. The people got pissed off at the Opposition, so a large number of Yugoslavists switched as per disappointment and voted for Milo (33, and then 30). The same happened with the Liberals (they had 6, and then 4). Traditionally, the Montenegrin parliament changes according to law. Now this is one of the undemocratic things - DPS frequently outvotes the other parties by changing the structure of the parliament to that structure which corresponds it. In 2001 it was 74. In 2002 76. In 2006 it was 81 - is it a coincidence that Milo won exactly 41 seat? It was considerably larger before - 125 in 1990... --PaxEquilibrium 16:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:European Union elections

I find the new version quite ugly. Perhaps it could be replaced with something like the Zimbabwean elections one, with 1979, 1984, 1989 and 1994 on the left and 1999, 2004 and 2009 on the right. I have tried to do it, but I can only make it come out with the sections equal in size, whereas it needs something like the Zimbabwean one (with two on one side and one on the other) to make it line up and fit properly. Can you work it out? If not, perhaps it should be be reverted? Number 57 09:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I have put an example of what I mean here: User:Number 57/EU elections. Number 57 11:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Mh, I actually prefer the layout the template currently has, but would leave out the pop-up boxes. —Nightstallion (?) 15:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I'd have a problem with that - my main problem is the show/hide thing - can you work out how to do it? Number 57 15:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't know how to do that... Just ask the one who did it, maybe? —Nightstallion (?) 15:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

What do you think of this: User:Number_57/EU_elections? Number 57 21:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks fine to me! —Nightstallion (?) 04:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Austrian elections

These elections look nice.

What are you complaining about? --PaxEquilibrium 11:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

By the way, care to help and clarify? --PaxEquilibrium 12:01, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I complain about the fact that Haider managed to get more than 4% and therefore crossed out the possibility of a red-green government for the next ten years or so... —Nightstallion (?) 15:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

What can I help to clarify? —Nightstallion (?) 15:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The "far left" and other controversy... I'm not sure how to list the Liberal Party of Montenegro. --PaxEquilibrium 15:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter Issue 012 – April 2007

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter Issue 012 – April 2007
Beatles News On Friday 30th March, a deranged fan was held after attempting to force his way into Paul McCartney's mansion. See here for more details. Apple Corps continues to make news, after the recent settlement with Apple Computer over the use of the Apple trademark. On April 10th, the company announced that long-time chief executive Neil Aspinall had stepped down and had been replaced by American Jeff Jones. It was also announced that another long term dispute, this time with EMI over royalties, had been amicably settled prior to Aspinall's departure.[1][2] Project News The article "Jeff Jones (music industry executive)" suddenly becomes of top importance in the Apple sphere of Beatledom. User:Kingboyk has created a stub on the man, but the article needs urgent beefing up (including basic biographical data such as date and place of birth) and, if possible, a photograph of the new Apple chief executive. Mimi Smith promises to have the last word over John yet again; her article is currently a Featured Article Candidate. Brian Epstein is a current GA candidate. See the Status board for more article news. 2 new articles have been listed in the Project Log since 1 March: Tony Barrow and Jeff Jones (music industry executive). With the debate over "the Beatles" vs "The Beatles" continuing to cause ill feeling and a number of resignations from the project from advocates on both sides, Kingboyk attempted to diffuse the situation by blanking the Project Policy page and tagging it as {{historical}}. Although this unilateral action hasn't been reverted as of the time of writing, the reaction was mixed, with two members rejoining the project and others stating their disagreement. With the issue still not resolved, the page was sent to Miscellany for Deletion, for the wider community (and WikiProject The Beatles members) to consider the issue. Member News The membership list has been trimmed, with inactive members listed seperately to help gauge the status of the project. If you've been incorrectly listed as inactive, please don't be offended - just move yourself back to the main list.	The Rutles: The legendary group who inspired lesser imitators like "The Beatles". WikiWorld, March 2007 From the Editors This has been a tumultuous month for the project yet again. We need your input on how the project should work and what it's role should be. And we need to start getting Featured Articles, folks! :) Next issue This is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue (Issue 013 – May 2007). Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing! Contributors to this Issue Kingboyk (Lead Editor) Andresguacamayo (Editor)
Complete To Do List Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively.

Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here.

--kingboyk 13:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I have a problem

Dear Nightstallion, I'm Checco. I have a problem: I'm not able to log in. I didn't change the password and I was logged until 10 minutes ago, but suddenly I was logged out and I'm not able to log in anymore. --151.16.141.62 08:29, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I feel someway desperate about the situation. I try and try to log in, but they say that the password I entried is wrong. But I never changed it! --151.16.141.62 08:41, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I hope to see you soon, 'cos I'm becoming mad of this situation. --151.16.141.62 09:14, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid I really don't know what to do in this case -- I can see why you're upset, I'm sure I would be upset just as much... I can only recommend asking at the technical part of the village pump... —Nightstallion (?) 12:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I've found nobody able to help me. In the case I won't get the problem solved, I won't create a new account and I will leave Wikipedia. I don't want to re-start from the beginning. --151.16.141.62 13:05, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Please don't leave, I'm sure there's some way this can be worked out; for instance, if everything else fails, a developer should be able to give you a new password if you simply prove to him that you're Checco by posting something with your account on it.wiki. Don't give up, I'm sure this can be resolved quite easily. —Nightstallion (?) 13:07, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you know a developer? Or better, can you ask to a developer if he can help me? --151.16.141.62 15:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I've asked Eloquence, I hope he can help. —Nightstallion (?) 16:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

In Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard it seems to me that my problem can't be solved, indeed my account was blocked 'cos my username and my password were identical. I feel very sad and I don't want to waste all my contributions. --151.16.141.62 16:08, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll be offline for at least three days, starting from tomorrow's afternoon. I hope that when I'll come back it would be possible to solve the problem. --151.16.141.62 18:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Problem solved... I'M CHECCO AGAIN!!! --Checco 18:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Wonderful! I'm very glad for you! Good to have you back. :) —Nightstallion (?) 19:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Europarliament

Take a look at the contributions of User:87.244.163.140 (later registered as User:Europarliament. He's making a lot of bizzarre, wrong and maybe ideologically-based edits, indeed he is putting undirect links instead of direct links and cancelling the EDU affiliation to all the parties who are also EPP members. He needs a stop. --Checco 19:05, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

...or at least some explanations! --Checco 19:08, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I posted on his talk page; could you please be so kind as to revert his edits? —Nightstallion (?) 19:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I have no time to do all this huge work now. Indeed the next three days I will go to the mountains with my scout group. --Checco 19:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello guys - this is Europarliament. Regarding EDU - your information is outdated since EDU is a dormant organization. After years of negotiations in the late 1990s, the EDU organization agreed to be fused with the EPP. There was a transition phase - moving the EDU Secretariat from Vienna to the EPP Secretariat in Brussels, joint working groups, an agreement from the EPP to accept member-parties beyond EU countries, etc. The EDU officially 'closed the books' at the EPP Congress in October 2002 in Estoril Portugal. The organization, as such, exists no more - no meetings, no secretariat, no staff, no finances, no legal status in the EU on in any European country, no website, no organs. It is only used by name in the IDU as a nominal geographical subdivision for its European member-parties. The IDU, on the other hand, is a vibrant organization and has been given new impetus by its new Norwegian Executive Secretary (who is also the sole staff member of this organization). If you want to read more details on how and why the EDU ended its activity there is a very detailed article by the last EDU Secretary General Alexis Wintoniak from Austria in the EPP journal 'European View' (Autumn 2006, p.173-178): http://www.epp.eu/subpagina.php?hoofdmenuID=7&submenuID=62 .

Does my explanation clarify the matter?--Europarliament 22:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Europarliament (talk • contribs) 22:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Oh, yeah, that's okay then; please don't change the links to the EPP-ED to the abbreviation, though, we should be using direct links. —Nightstallion (?) 11:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, will do - this is very new to me so I do appreciate your advice.--Europarliament 20:32, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Perfect! If you've got any questions, just ask. —Nightstallion (?) 22:10, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

FYI - I fixed all the EPP-ED abbreviations :-)--Europarliament 23:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Great, thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 10:40, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello again - I need your advice in adding footnotes. I've attempted to do it but I'm afraid I'm going to screw-up (being the beginner that I am...). Hope you can help me...Thanks!--Europarliament 19:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, how can I help you? —Nightstallion (?) 19:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you already have - I used as guide your references from the 'List of EU member states by political system' and managed to figure it out. You should, indeed, be proud of that page!!--Europarliament 20:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I am. :) —Nightstallion (?) 20:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Capitalization conduct

Hey there, Nightstallion, how's it been going? I was pondering over why the article for Game Boy Micro has the "Micro" capitalized, when it's really lowercase (i.e., instruction manual, Nintendo's site, logo). Somebody pointed to the manual in a move discussion, which stated, "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment." So if the micro shouldn't be capitalized, then why the iPod, iPod nano, iMac, etc? I'm asking you because you were in those discussions.

Oh, and by the way, I'm likin' your new color scheme. A good refreshment from the blue one.--the ninth bright shiner ^talk 02:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd tend to agree... —Nightstallion (?) 10:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

On the capitalization, or the color scheme? :^)--the ninth bright shiner ^talk 18:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Both. —Nightstallion (?) 19:13, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Reply

Well he officially resigned from all political life more than a month ago... and he said that despite being optimistic, is thankful to the doctors who are being frank to him, telling him that chances for his survival are very slim. So I don't think that anything will change now (if didn't before, when he retired). In every way, this is a sad day for all of Croatia, as it lost one of its greatest statesmen.

In other news, Velja Ilic has publicly apologized for what he said in frustration before and said that the media took his words out of context. --PaxEquilibrium 19:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I had heard that. —Nightstallion (?) 21:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Serbian government

Oh and, the compromise about the new Serbian government is near its completion. Vojislav Koštunica (DSS) shall be Premier, while three Vice-President seats will be created; two of them for DS and one for G17+. One of two DS' will be Božidar Đelić, who will be at the same time Minister for European Integrations and shall have no Vice-Minister (the Ministry will be centralized fully under his control), while G17's will be Mlađan Dinkić, who shall be at the same time the Minister of Economy. --PaxEquilibrium 19:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I reckon this situation horrible. In 2000-2004 the DS led the Serbian Government. In 2004-2007 it was led by DSS. When the people gets disappointed - it votes for the opposition. Look who's the opposition now. When in four or so years, new elections come, what do you think for whom will the people of Serbia vote? Why the Serbian Radical Party of course. And then they'll be much stronger, so that uniting the rest of the parliament to oust them will be a very hard task... this is a very bad thing. I think that all the hopes in Serbia's farther future now lies in Serbia's sole opposition democratic party, the LDP (which is right now only a small party, but rapidly growing, much faster than SRS)... --PaxEquilibrium 21:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

It's raelly the fastest growing party? That's very good news... —Nightstallion (?) 21:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

It got created, it entered the parliament and already annexed another minor civic party.

The only controversy remains whether NS shall be allowed into the government. Velimir Ilic wants to be Minister of Construction and Traffics, and that place is reserved for DS as per the compromise. However, if Kostunica brakes the DSS-NS coalition, there will be no government majority (Ilic command the mandates of NS, SDPO and JS). They'll have to look for for LDP, the minorities or even the Vojvodinians then... what government do you think would be best to solve this last issue? --PaxEquilibrium 17:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you ask me, obviously the LDP... ;) —Nightstallion (?) 17:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

More complicated than that however; DS might force LDP to support this minority government, but neither will they enter it, nor shall Kostunica allow them get in. And in the end, both Tadic and Kostunica agreed that the new Serbian government must not be a minority government (which means that more than 50% must be ruling parties, not just supportive). --PaxEquilibrium 18:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Mh. Not really a solution, then... —Nightstallion (?) 19:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

So what, NS then? --PaxEquilibrium 20:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, it's like picking between hell and purgatory, isn't it? —Nightstallion (?) 23:10, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem's this' a jigsaw. The LDP are large enough, but won't enter the Government. The NS would, and both the minorities and the Vojvodinians are individually too small to make a difference (plus Canak would never enter Kostunica's government)... --PaxEquilibrium 09:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Montenegrin Constitution

They've agreed to dismiss "To Our Beautiful Montenegro" and "There, o'er There!" as potential anthems, but they also agreed that the words for "Oh Bright Dawn of May!" are unacceptable.

Oh, bright Dawn of May

Mother ours Montenegro

We're sons of your rocks

and wardens of your honesty

Lovćen is our Saint Oltar

In him are we all sworn

On Lovćen sleeps Njegoš

The wisest Serbian mind

This shall be the basis for the new anthem's words.

The acting Flag and Coat-of-Arms have been dismissed as per un-heraldic. --PaxEquilibrium 19:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

BTW you didn't comment the LPCG. --PaxEquilibrium 19:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

A shame, I really liked the flag. Which LPCG? Sorry, I forgot...? —Nightstallion (?) 21:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Something similar will be though. I asked you about Talk:Liberal Party of Montenegro. --PaxEquilibrium 16:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Good to know it'll be something similar. I replied there. —Nightstallion (?) 17:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Romania as semi-presidential

Hi! I've just noticed that you reverted a change to the Image:European Union member states by form of government.png (a long while ago, which I just realised now). Romania is organised under a semi-presidential rather than parliamentary system, where the president is not simply a ceremonial figurehead. In fact, one of the reasons for the current political crisis in Romania is that the main parliamentary parties, such as the Liberals and the Social Democrats, seek to bring about a parliamentary system where the president would not have a significant role in political affairs. For that reason, I think the map should be changed back to reflect that Romania is a semi-presidential republic. Cheers, Ronline ✉ 11:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: I see that you've left a comment regarding this at Talk:Politics of Romania. Hmmm, I'm confused now :) In the Romanian media, there is always debate about "switching to a parliamentary system", so I think that most people believe Romania isn't really a parliamentary system in the standard sense. It is also listed at Semi-presidential system, as is Finland. On the other hand, I trust your opinion on this matter. How are the French and Romanian systems different? Ronline ✉ 11:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

It's mostly a matter of de facto vs. de iure. De iure, the United Kingdom is at most a semi-constitutional monarchy, as the monarch has *EXTENSIVE* rights she could possibly employ -- however, she doesn't. It's the same case with Austria, Finland and Romania -- the president *TECHNICALLY* has a vast array of powers (de iure, the Austrian president has MORE powers than the French one...) but since she or he by definition does not use them in normal situations, these countries are usually considered parliamentary. I realise that Romania is a border-line case and is the one of these three most likely to be considered semi-presidential, but from the written sources I've seen, it's usually considered parliamentary de facto. BTW, the fact that there's a domestic discussion about this does not really hurt the argument; Finland regularily debates whether to formally cut the president's powers, and in Austria it's the topic of merry banter and amazed looks every now and then when politicians realise what Heinz Fischer COULD do, if he wanted to. ;) Hope I could help! —Nightstallion (?) 14:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

EU

I beg to differ (referring to states). A disunited Europe will be more easily, *eaten alive* (lol) to express myself, by America and Russia, turning into that which are 3rd world countries for the West.

You can't deny the EU is already a lot dependable on USA. --PaxEquilibrium 17:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Mh? I'm afraid I don't really know which statement you are referring to? Yes, currently some states in the Union depend on the US; this should stop, in my opinion, and the Union should strive to be one of the world's superpowers (along side the US, Russia, PR China, India, Brazil, ...). —Nightstallion (?) 17:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

..referring to the statement of independence of Scotland; you said that the more smaller states in Europe - the better for it. --PaxEquilibrium 18:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that one. I still stand by it -- the more and smaller states there are in Europe, the more important and the stronger will the Union become, simply out of necessity, and a strong Union is what Europe needs to compete with large countries in the world. —Nightstallion (?) 19:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

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Image:European Union commemorative 2 euro coins.png

I just noticed a minor error on this map: the Swedish island of Gotland is coloured as part of the euro zone. If I've simply missed the news about a Gotlandic independence movement joining the euro zone, please disregard this message :) Valentinian ^{T / C} 12:23, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Corrected, thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 12:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Democratic Left

The new party of Mussi, Salvi, Angius and Spini will be founded on 5 May 2007 iduring a convention in Rome. The name is likely to be "Democratic Left". As of today the number and the names of MPs who are leaving the DS are not confirmed. We need to wait until 8 May 2007, when the new parliamentary groups will be formed. In it.Wiki there is already an article on the party (see it:Sinistra democratica), but as many things are not clear I would wait until next week to start a new article also in en.Wiki. --Checco 21:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! I'd write a very basic stub, but as even the name is not really known yet, I won't do that for now. —Nightstallion (?) 13:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

US Presidential election

Do you think Obama & Clinton stand a chance next to the other candidates?

BTW, I was always wondering - why does it seem that the US Presidential campaign lasts for 2 years???

Oh, and I've been editing the Together for Change article - what do ya think so far? Any advice (is there a table for a political alliance)?

Also I've noticed that there's no article on political alliances whatsoever! --PaxEquilibrium 22:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I think they do stand a chance, frankly. The presidential campaign lasts so long because you have to declare yourself a candidate *very* early to stand a chance... The article seems fine -- I know of no such template --, and the missing article on political alliances is strange, yeah... —Nightstallion (?) 13:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Why don'y you start? --PaxEquilibrium 14:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. —Nightstallion (?) 14:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Euro Coin Images

Greetings. Does anyone know why so many euro coin images were deleted? I have high res images of all euro coins ever produced and those which will be produced in the future. I'm happy to upload new images, but I have a few questions on how to proceed:

• What licensing should be attached to the images?
• Where should I upload the images- commons or directly to Wikipedia?
• If to the commons, how do I do that and then how do I use those images?

Help is appreciated! —-Theeuro 09:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Simply look at the licenses the other euro coin images have, those should be fine... Uploading at the Commons works just like uploading here on Wikipedia, and you can simply link to them as if they were on Wikipedia. I think the reason for the deletion were some strange licensing problems... Thanks a lot for your help! —Nightstallion (?) 13:07, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I hate to keep bothering you about this... I am having the worst luck explaining to these deletion happy ***kopfs that it is OK to use the ECB euro coin images on wikipedia. You said that you don't know too much about this sort of thing, but is there a higher authority I can bring this issue to in order that it be resolved? It is worrysome because now all of the euro images are nominated for deletion, including those on the 2 euro commem article. Any help is appreciated!!

--Theeuro 09:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Try asking at the village pump, I think someone should be able to help there. I'm afraid it's really not my area of expertise... —Nightstallion (?) 14:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I tried that and came to find out that even more images are going to be deleted. Can I trouble you to make a case for 'keep' here so that all of the euro coin images are not lost? Perhaps you might be able to rephrase my argument into something that these people might understand. It feels like I'm talking to a tree in there. A deaf tree.

Thanks again!!

--Theeuro 06:16, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

You know, sometimes the copyright paranoia freaks are simply retarded... —Nightstallion (?) 07:35, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Very well put! --Theeuro 21:36, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Still no government

Today the *big three* had a meeting to finally conclude a contract for a new government and... the meeting ended without any progress, with all three leaders very furious at each other. Tadic demands that after all the controversies that circle around Velimir Ilic (NS), that he cannot enter the government, while Kostunica insisted that he must, because he commands crucial 14 of DSS-NS coalition's 47 in the parliament and has refused to search assistance elsewhere.

The other points were regarding security: Tadic says that Kostunica cannot control both the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the security agencies - and that he'll have to choose - but Kostunica demands to keep them both.

Some of the other points are future foreign policy of Serbia. While DS is strictly pro-European & pro-Western, DSS attains a conservative view (especially when they brought up the subject of Kosovo), and suggests that any party supporting independence of Kosovo should and must be officially considered hostile to Serbia.

All of the three main democrat parties are holding congresses tonight, in order to decide whether to go on new elections or continue the negotiations for the new Serbian government.

In other news Borka Vučić has appointed the new session of the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia for this Monday (note: the Serbian Parliament very rarely holds sessions, so this is a major thing - last time was when it was constructed on 14 February). So I guess that session will reveal the mist, finally.

The political crisis is devastating for Serbia, thousands and thousands of the working class (miners and constructors) are protesting and are on strike demanding a new government. The international community is sending appealing warnings to the Serbian authorities regarding the tragic political situation in the country. On the other side, Kostunica's Cabinet *emergency seized control* over one more municipality in Serbia... Serbia has... missed the year 2007, with all the foreign investments, aid and other matters - disappearing into thin air (this year it's likely Serbian economy will rotten to waste, and will have to wait for 2008). With the backlash of Kosovo's status banging at Serbia's head right at the same time, the Serbian political analysts state that Serbia has never ever been in such crisis since the 1990s.

Serbia needs desperately a miracle (an able-bodied politician to drag it out of this crisis). I honestly no longer believe the media as they report about the government's construction anymore. --PaxEquilibrium 18:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

So this means there'll be elections again, then? —Nightstallion (?) 18:26, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Well like I said, the session of the National Assembly will be in Monday. We'll see.

BTW the 3 parties have finished their sessions of the managing boards. They have all mysteriously refused to comment at the Press just a few minutes ago.

This is all very strange... I'm really interested to what will happen in Monday (there are 10 days remaining to form the government). --PaxEquilibrium 19:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I still belong to the optimistic minority which believes the government will be formed in 5 minutes to midnight on 14 May 2007.

BTW, you haven't voiced your opinion on the issue at all... --PaxEquilibrium 19:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't know what will or should happen... There's no majority for a real western-oriented democratic government, either way... —Nightstallion (?) 19:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

How come? 106 seats are true pro-European parties. I'd dare count the 33 DSS's (despite how controversial that might seem) and 2 of SDPO's -> and that'd be 141 (just not counting SRS, SPS and DSS's controversial allies). --PaxEquilibrium 19:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

---

The main problem is that this "Parliament" ate already millions and millions of Dinars. --PaxEquilibrium 19:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

That's another problem, yeah. —Nightstallion (?) 20:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think I've got it. There are 2 possibilities. One, more likely, is that President Boris Tadic will declare the elections failed and schedule new elections on Monday.

The other (less likely, but still possible) is that they've all been having a secret negotiations (because of Kosovo as you say) and that on the Monday's Parliamentary session they'll proclaim that new government. Although all this secrecy and tens of stupid rumors really makes no sense at all. --PaxEquilibrium 10:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid it might rather be the first option... —Nightstallion (?) 14:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

But one should think, what would new elections bring? What? What if (as likely) the outcome is the same - or similar at best? Why should Serbia spend another hundred million Dinars for this that are oh-so-much desperately needed to a poor country? And new elections will prolong this *status quo*, as Kostunica's temporary cabinet would stay in power even longer: This government was formed on 3 June 2006 as a result of the disappearance of the State Union between Serbia and Montenegro and was supposed to be temporary... how long is this *temporary* thing gonna last? More than a year? --PaxEquilibrium 18:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what you and I say -- but do you really think Kostunica still thinks rationally? It appears he's clinging to power any way he can... ::sighs:: —Nightstallion (?) 18:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

...at what cost? Leading the very country he rules into ruin? Isn't the age of Milosevic over? --PaxEquilibrium 19:08, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not so sure with Kostunica in power... —Nightstallion (?) 19:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

But his demagogy really makes no sense. Kostunica had built up Serbia's economy by great, rejuvenated the damages of the 1990s, worked greatly to make Serbia's economic and influential strength back to how it was before the 1990s. He is the one who defeated Slobodan Milosevic in 2000.

This way it seams that he's destroying his own work?

Perhaps politics have made him into a political monster? He's been in power for so long that he won't give it up? It wouldn't be the first time for such a thing... --PaxEquilibrium 19:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid that seems to be the case, unless there's some grand master plan involved which will be revealed on Monday... —Nightstallion (?) 19:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Parliament of Serbia and Montenegro

I have problems with Template:Assembly of Serbia and Montenegro.

The composition is not how it looked when it was dismissed in 2006, nor is very precisely how it looked when it was constructed in 2003... what to do? --PaxEquilibrium 19:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Make two columns for "seats", one "at election" and one "at dissolution". —Nightstallion (?) 19:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Considering that I'm still an idiot for this template construction, er, could you do it? --PaxEquilibrium 20:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

The only difference is that the LDP was created/seceded and took 1 of DS's 13 seats with it. Other than that, LSCG disappeared from political life and LPCG inherited its MPs. I'm thinking of adding the parliamentary clubs, but I've discovered that it's a pain in the ass (G17+&SDP, DSS CG&NS CG&LSCG, SPO&NS, DPS CG&NSCG). --PaxEquilibrium

Done. —Nightstallion (?) 07:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I also can't seem to find a source for the Montenegrin parties. I've got correct 91 for Serbian parties - but the Montenegrin parties' seats accumulate to 34, instead of 35 (one is missing). The only source I found seems to be erroneous on this one... If you know any site that might contain info...? --PaxEquilibrium 20:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Mh... No, I'm afraid not... —Nightstallion (?) 07:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Scotland

! SNP received most votes.

But they won't be able to form a government, right? --PaxEquilibrium 00:40, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

It'll be very interesting. The SNP needs the Greens and the LibDems, Labour would need two coalition partners, as well, but I doubt either the Greens or the Tories will form a coalition with Labour, so Labour's out. The only option seems to be a SNP-LD-Green coalition, but the independence referendum question will be make it very interesting... —Nightstallion (?) 07:45, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Kostunica gives in (slightly) or something else

The three are meeting today again. For only today and tomorrow remain for negotiating. Mladjan Dinkic seems to be very satisfied and no controversy lies in him. However to solve the DS vs DSS issue, Kostunica had proposed a compromise: that every single security agency has two completely equal directors - one from DSS, and the other from DS. As for the other thing (Velja Ilic), he intends to split the Ministry in two (the "Ministry of Traffics and Telecommunications"). He promises that Velimir Ilic will satisfy with the seat of Minister of Traffics, while the Ministry of Telecommunications will be handed over to DS (possibly to Dragan Djilas). However Boris Tadic thinks Kostunica needs to soften up a little more (Velja's actual presence within the government was the problem in the first place, and he thinks the compromise regarding the security agencies is unrealistic).

On the other side, Velimir Ilic (NS) now officially said that he is fully prepared to negotiate with the Radicals, and voiced his support of Tomislav Nikolic as President of the parliament. SRS high officials stated that they might be ready to reconsider an option of cooperation with DSS, and Ivica Dacic (SPS) urges a SRS-DSS government and gave full support in it.

BTW you could update your notes (some are outdated). Negotiations with Serbia for EU joining shall continue after a democratic government has been formed and progress shown without the arrest of Ratko Mladic, and Serbia can become a candidate now without it. But it won't be able to join EU before Mladic is arrested.

BTW did you see the French Dual? I think Royal bested out Sarkozy... but I still think Sarkozy will win. --PaxEquilibrium 14:36, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I've started Movement of Veterans of Serbia. Check out the only source (Reuters).... horrible, isn't it?

Tomislav said that he will never ever make coalition nor support governments, and the only government valid will be one made solely by Radicals. However, he said he'll gladly accept to be President of the Assembly, "which belongs to him".

Boris Tadic will meet today with Kostunica once more and express himself if he accepts the bizarre deal, or not. --PaxEquilibrium

Yeah, I'm also afraid Sarkozy will win... I still doubt Serbia will be given candidate status without having given up Mladic. SAA possibly, but certainly not candidate status. I'm still rather worried about the Serbian government issue... —Nightstallion (?) 13:55, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Republic Protests

Would you like to help out with this article? I noticed it was in your lists. The topic is a bit overwhelming right now to deal with and more editor assistance would be most welcome. -- Cat ^chi? 18:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Mh, what can I help with? —Nightstallion (?) 13:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter Issue XIV (April 2007)
Project news The new contest department has now run through its first month of competition; Carom and Kevin Myers were tied for first place, with ten points each. All project members are encouraged to submit the articles they're working on as entries. A new level of the project award, the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves, has been introduced to recognize contributions of truly incredible quality or importance in the area of military history; it is awarded by the project coordinators in the name of the project as a whole. A suggested article structure for articles on firearms has been introduced. Four new task forces, covering Middle Eastern military history, Ottoman military history, South American military history, and Southeast Asian military history, have been created. The project collaboration of the fortnight has been discontinued in favor of the new contest department.		Current proposals and discussions A fresh discussion about the by-nation category system for military personnel has begun; suggestions are very welcome! The use of flag icons in templates is currently being discussed.
Articles of note New featured articles: Battle of Shiloh Battleship British anti-invasion preparations of World War II Domenico Selvo Knights Templar Lochry's Defeat Puerto Ricans in World War II Robert Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell Thomas Crisp New A-Class articles: Benjamin Franklin Tilley Cambodian Campaign List of United States Marine Corps aircraft squadrons Operation Igloo White Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry Russian-Circassian War Tupolev TB-3	Awards and honors Cla68 has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his many valuable contributions to military history articles, and, in particular, his leading role in the creation of numerous featured articles on the topic of the Pacific Theater of World War II. RM Gillespie has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his massive efforts to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the Vietnam War, and, in particular, his development of a substantial portion of the project's A-Class articles. Wilsbadkarma has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his work on lists (included two featured lists) and portals (including one featured portal). Lists especially are an undermanned area of work, and his excellent efforts deserve commendation.
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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XII - May 2007

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter Issue XII - May 2007
Project news The peer review department of the Novels WikiProject is running well after the start in February, having 2 new articles under review: So You Want to Be a Wizard and To Kill a Mockingbird. Our article count has leapt again rising to over 11500. Do get stuck in and assist in improving this rising tide of narrative prose related material. A statistical count of articles can be found here. We have a new project page for Article Style Guidelines which has had a few editors work on it. Currently based on our existing article template it needs some extra eyes to hone any rough edges. (n.b. also see debates below!) Also to accommodate this page the main navigation template has been slightly reorganised. Member news The project has currently 229 members, 12 joined & 0 leavers since the last newsletter at the start of April 2007 Other news The Brothers Karamazov has been nominated for a featured article review. Uncle Tom's Cabin and Original Stories from Real Life were nominated for Featured Article. Auto list news Our Auto Generated lists appear to have lost the editor who created and supported them. If any other editors have the ability and are willing to have a stab at producing replacement updates, please let us know. Current debates Of crucial importance to our progress and the way we edit is a debate on the Main Article Template which is strongly recommended for every editor who can, getting involved with. We have worked with the existing template for well over a year now and this debate proposes making radical changes. (n.b. also see the "Article Style Guidelines" mentioned in "Project News" above) On the project's general discussion page there is a thread on sourcing novel articles.	From the Members Welcome to the twelfth issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do. We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask. Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk), Initiating Editor Newsletter tip line has been created for members to link, doodle, shortly write news ideas, discussions they think are possibly interesting/important for the Newsletter. feydey, Co-editor Collaboration of the Month This month's Collaboration has been selected by popular vote and is Moby-Dick. Newsletter challenge Last month's Political thriller challenge was met by the user Loom91 (talk · contribs) with a nice stub. The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Louisa May Alcott's Work: A Story of Experience.
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Welsh election

I have to say I disagree with your move to National Assembly for Wales election, 2007 - whilst this might be the technical name, you won't ever hear anyone call it that - Welsh Assembly election, 2007 is far more WP:Common (even the BBC called it that), and that's where most people will expect to see it. Number 57 18:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, then we would also have to have National Assembly for Wales at Welsh Assembly, and likely nuclear power at nucular power... "Common names" is fine as a policy as long as you also consider "no wrong names" while applying it, in my opinion. —Nightstallion (?) 19:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the "nucular" example is silly, as it is a spelling mistake rather than a name. Welsh Assembly election obviously isn't a "wrong" name, or the BBC who are very strict about that sort of thing (a whole department on naming and pronounciation!) wouldn't call it that. Anyway, bickering aside, I was mildly amused to see that the first-ever non-White AM was actually elected on the Plaid Cymru list! Number 57 20:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, same for Scotland and the SNP; it seems that the autonomist and separatist movements really do care most about integrating minorities into their party's supporters... Good thing, that. :) —Nightstallion (?) 20:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I was very happy with the SNP win - I just hope they manage to form a coalition and get an independence referendum off the ground. The best result locally was in the election for my local town council - it was won by a party called "Abolish Bury Town Council" :) Number 57 20:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd love to see an independent Scotland, but I'm not sure whether they'll be able to beat the LibDems into submission to have them accept an independence referendum... neither Labour nor the Tories will aquiesce to one, that much is certain... —Nightstallion (?) 20:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

From what I understand the Lib Dems are willing to have a referendum as long as it includes the option of giving more powers to the Scottish Parliament. If that is the case, then hopefully it won't be an either - or kind of election, but rather with two ballots - one for independence and one for more powers. Number 57 20:49, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid the compromise might be an "independence / more powers / neither" kind of ballot... But then again, there could always be another referendum later. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 20:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Government

Well, some of the West Kosovo independence lobbist say that when Kosovo gains ind. Serbia should become an EU candidate.

As for the government, the assembly President will be elected tomorrow. Tomislav Nikolic seems the strongest candidate. If he's elected Mladjan Dinkic will retire and the *Democrat Bloc* will perish. --PaxEquilibrium 01:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, that would be a fair enough compromise.

If Dinkic retires, what happens next? —Nightstallion (?) 05:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Name of parties in Italian or in English?

I want you to discuss a problem about the names of the articles of some Italian parties. In Italy there are some parties with very similar names or with similar structure of names (forza is a synonim of lega): Forza Italia, Lega Nord, Lega Lombarda, Liga Veneta and Liga Fronte Veneto. The problem is that the articles in en.Wiki Lega Nord and Lega Lombarda have articles with the title translated in English (Northern League and Lombard League), while the other three have Italian titles. I think we need uniformity. We can either translate all the names in English or move Northern League (Italy) to Lega Nord and Lombard League (political party) to Lega Lombarda. In my opionion, in that case, it is better the second option. What do you think? --Checco 15:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I would prefer "Lega Nord" and "Lega Lombarda" as well, yeah. —Nightstallion (?) 17:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you move the pages? --Checco 17:38, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Just did; could you correct the content? —Nightstallion (?) 17:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. --Checco 18:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Perfect! Say, what happens now in regard to the Democratic Left and the Democratic Party? The latter will have its founding congress in mid-October, but the former? What about the new Reformist Alliance within the SDI, and the PdCI's proposal to unite the left -- will they merge with the Democratic Left? —Nightstallion (?) 18:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The Democratic Party will be founded in October (even if some people such as Rutelli want to found it in June), the Democratic Left was founded last Saturday. Mussi was elected leader. In this new party, there are at least five groups/factions with different opinions about the future of SD. The group of Salvi and that around Bandoli, Buffo and Napoletano seem to be interested more in a United Left with PdCI and PRC. Those around Angius and those around Spini seem more interested in the "Socialist Constituent" launched by the SDI. It is not clear what Mussi wants to do... unity with SDI or with PRC? And what about an union of the left from the SDI to the PRC. I can't understand how can this be possible, as the SDI are definitely to the right of DS-DL on many issues, but Mussi doesn't want to rule out one of the possible options. A newspaper today foresaw that SD won't have a long life, that Angius will break with Mussi, that there will be actually three new federations: 1) one between the SDI, other former PSI members and the group of Angius; 2) another one between SD and the Greens; 3) a third one between PRC, PdCI, some members of SD and splinters from the Greens led by Cento. As of today the future of SD seems unclear and I think that we need to wait until 2008-09 to see some changes. --Checco 19:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

You asked me also of the Reformist Alliance... It is an very tiny internal faction within the SDI. It is composed mainly by Ottaviano Del Turco, who was the only delegate (one in 750!!!) to oppose Boselli in the last Congress. The weight of this faction may reach the 2-3% of a party which has not more than the 2%... Not much important, really! --Checco 19:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Peter Šťastný fix...

Can you move Talk:Peter Stastny to Talk:Peter Šťastný please? It doesn't work. Thanks. —MC 21:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

List of political parties in Cyprus

I see that parties in Northern Cyprus are also listed here - this isn't really consistent with the cases of other breakaway countries (Transnistria, Abkhazia etc). It was originally its own article, but was merged by a Greek Cypriot! Would you support demerging? Number 57 21:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Aye, I would. —Nightstallion (?) 22:02, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, have done, and I'll keep an eye on it. Number 57 22:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks. —Nightstallion (?) 05:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

President

14h of the parliament's session has just passed. The whole tiresome debate is because of Nikolic's imminent election, who has secured support from SRS, DSS-NS and SPS and thus parliamentary majoriti!!! PaxEquilibrium 00:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Ouch -- he's been elected. What happens now? —Nightstallion (?) 05:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

It was one of the most tiresome meetings ever. The SRS MPs had allied DSS-NS and were trying to eliminate G17+ on charges of corruption. Aleksandar Vucic called him "a traitorous criminal that only thinks about counting millions", while Mladjan Dinkic called him "a foul murderer" inviting him to give away his immunity and go to court to solve out if he has anything against him.

For countless hours (with no pause except for a short half-hour one) the MPs have not talked about the subject at all (as Cedomir Jovanovic exposed), but with quarreling and cursing at each other. President of the DS - Boris Tadic club brought Vojislav Seselj's newest book and read it: "Damned Alliance of Whore del Ponte and Whore del Kostunica" and said that anyone who votes for this is a fool. DSS-NS MPs explained that a President has to be elected, and that since SRS won most votes, it has got to be a Radical.

The horror continued as for hours, and hours and hours the MPs expressed the very same arguments over and over and over again, as DSS-NSS club president threatened DS to get its "pawns off" Serbia, while DS president threatened that he will beat the hell out of him if he continues to threat. The ending *clash* was between Bozidar Djelic and Aleksandar Vucic, who accused him for stealing 10,800,000 euros. SRS now mostly relies on corruption, presenting the pureness of the Radicals and corruptive attitudes of the ruling Democrat Bloc.

The Roms have appeased the assembly. President of the Roma Party said "I wanted to lead the Gypsies out of a circus, and yet it appears that I have led them into an even greater". Rajko Djuric of the Roma Union of Serbia held an epic speech quoting ancient Serbian writers and rulers and warning the MPs about the future.

Then SPS and the Albanian had an ethnic fight... you can imagine how it went.

With much past Midnight and after the MPs were tired from constantly yelling at each other, Tomislav Nikolic got elected by the votes of SRS, DSS-NS and SPS; while DS, LDP, G17+, the Vojvodinians and the minorities supported the democratic option.

Immediately after the election all MPs except the 3 lists left before the ceremony in which Tomislav swore.

Mladjan Dinkic said to the public that the Democrat Bloc has just been destroyed and that the Democratic Party of Serbia and New Serbia can now be considered a part of the Irredentist Bloc. G17+ will be in no negotiations till the end of the week, and Dinkic, the most furious and angry of all the MPs called for a DS-G17+-LDP coalition at the repeated election this year that's goal would be to win most votes and become the largest list in the National Assembly.

One DSS member said that this is OK: "Democrat President of the State, Populist President of the Government and Radical President of the Parliament".

Although DS & DSS still do not dismiss the possibility of compromise by 14 May, they have now become so far away that I'm convinced such a thing cannot happen. You should add forthcoming elections to your notes... cheers. --PaxEquilibrium 09:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Most likely General Elections will be held on 15 June 2007. More and more politicians say that the election should be a referendum, where the people should once and for all choose between two sides (one with DS, G17+ and LDP and the other with SRS and SPS) and invites DSS and NS to finally choose one of them. They say that this should not be an ordinary election, but a final election of two Serbias. --PaxEquilibrium 09:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Mh, do you think that that would be a good idea? —Nightstallion (?) 14:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Considering that according to the most recent election and current polls the "Good guys" have not much below 3,500,000 while the "Bad guys" have not much more than 1,500,000 (if the referendum election is pulled out, they might poll 2m tops), yeah I consider it a brilliant option. As history shows, people vote for Presidential elections more often than parliamentary - and in such terms, I expect the turnout to be even larger that this one (probably 5m). The people will finally be given two choices. At the small risk of returning to the 1990s, I think they should go for it, because there will only one winner and one loser. The *other* Serbia will finally be defeated, for good once and for all. --PaxEquilibrium 15:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

If that's the case, that's *GREAT* news! —Nightstallion (?) 15:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

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Continuation

What's bad is that Speaker Tomislav Nikolic is now pushing and will adopt the 2007 Budget by Friday, thus saving Serbia's economy and anarchy. SRS is now presenting as a messiah, savior, using the damage inflicted by DSS.

Also, SRS, DSS-NS and SPS have signed a coalition to form all boards and bodies of the parliament... this does not smell good.

Oh, and Montenegro has signed the controversial Article 98, binding itself not to hand over American internationally-persecuted personal... is this horrible? --PaxEquilibrium 15:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

So DSS will officially align with the radical bloc; we should have seen that coming since January, I suppose... And the Article 98 agreement is horrible, yeah... —Nightstallion (?) 15:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Well it has, *on the parliamentary level*. The SRS are a far tougher nut to break than the DS, and they will most certainly not allow Kostunica to be Premier. Vojislav Seselj from the Hague is sending both congratulations to Tomislav Nikolic and harsh critics for "relying on traitors and Ustashas". Tomislav said that the only government he'll consider legitimate is the one solely made by SRS members. This means that nothing's official *yet*. Remember that Brioni video of Franjo Tudjman? Well, it appears that it will influence Serbia for the most, as SRS is using it for its campaigning under the slogan "We we're right all along". I think it's just like I told ya a while ago, Ilic expects that the SRS give one additional year to Kostunica's temporary cabinet, and despite he refused he hopes that these votes for Nikolic's Presidency will convince the Radicals.

It's like I told you, Kostunica is leading a political ideology from failure into failure. We must understand that a political loser who is the acting Head of the Government does not have an easy situation (he does not want to end up like Zoran Živković, but he most certainly doesn't want to treat the path of Slobodan Milosevic). DSS is meeting its political end and is very close to returning back to that which it was in the 1990s - a minor political party. --PaxEquilibrium 15:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... Boris Tadic and Vojislav Kostunica are meeting again, but Mladjan Dinkic has abandoned the negotiations and won't continue them before Tomislav Nikolic is replaced from the seat of the National Assembly's Speaker...perhaps this all is just Kostunica's tactic to intimidate DS even further? My god, if they do form the the government and replace Nikolic - I will be glad twice: once because stability shall return, and once more for finally discovering the true hides of Vojislav Kostunica. --PaxEquilibrium 16:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

---

Serbia's presiding in the Council of Europe will be delayed because of Tomislav Nikolic's election, while several agreements with the EU have also been canceled (like the non-visa treaty). Cuba has immediately voiced huge support of Serbia and hopes for future prosperity, while Poland, Czechia, Slovakia and Russia give acknowledging, but optimistic words. UK and US are terrified and sent words of deep warning. Croatia openly threatens Serbia.

I want to add the bodies of the Parliament (President, 3 Vice-Presidents) that have just been formed, but need your help because I do not know of precise terms in English (I only recently found out that President of the Parliament is "Speaker"). --PaxEquilibrium 17:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Tomo is bullying the Parliament. He proposed that SRS, DSS-NS and SPS sit in the front, while all others in the back. Although, DS has managed to fight for sitting in the first lines together with the SRS deputies (but not the other opposition parties). During the session Toma allows the members of SRS and SPS to curse and swear at the opposition parties, while constantly interrupting Bozidar Djelic, Cedomir Jovanovic and the others during speeches. Instead of being neutral, he favors and supports the parliamentary majority, while totally discriminating the opposition. --PaxEquilibrium 17:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Considering all that, I find it highly unlikely that the DS would ever be inclined to form a government with the DSS... —Nightstallion (?) 17:03, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Heraldry - Latin

Greetings, Mr Nightstallion. You might remember me as Bill the Greek, but it has been some time now. I would like to express once again my gratitude for the help you have offered to me as far as various motto translations into Latin are concerned, and I would like to show you that your trouble has not been for nothing.

This is my coat of arms, which I have designed myself. I am rather proud of it, and I believe that, with the scant resources I had in my disposal, it has turned out sufficiently handsome. If you will notice the bottom of the coat of arms, the motto might ring some bells to you...

If not, you might be older that you claim. ;) Waltham, The Duke of 13:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Quite nice. :) —Nightstallion (?) 21:59, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I hope that will make you even more willing to help in the future. ;D Waltham, The Duke of 12:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Help

I still need your help (as per the up-mentioned).

BTW 3 vice-presidents have been elected (one from SRS, one from DSS and one from SPS); the DS, G17+ and LDP refused to candidate for vice-president despite being offered by Nikolic.

The G17+ have asked Nikolic to remove the "Stop to Hague tyranny!" and "Seselj Serb Hero" badges from his coat, but he refused saying that he will proudly wear the badges of anyone who's rights are endangered. Today, an LSV MP asked him to honer his promise and gave him a badge in support of the most recent death threats and assassination attempts against journalists (Dejan Anastasijevic,...) by domestic extremists. He gladly accepted and put the badge on his coat.

Also, if you're not in that news, recently there have been mass assassination attempts and death threats against revolutionary Serbian journalists. The situation is getting very bad (very near to the 1990s, when journalists were assassinated or openly executed on a regular basis - none of their deaths remains explained up to this day) for the media. --PaxEquilibrium 20:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the article looks fine... So, what do you think will happen now? I simply can't imagine that DS would enter a coalition with DSS after *this*. —Nightstallion (?) 21:58, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Speaker Nikolic had announced declaration of State of Emergency because of the Kosovo issue. He has inclined he does not exclude possibility of the state of war. In either case emergency powers will grant him effective control of the state. What do you think about comparing Serbia with the Weimar republic. (help) See the new section in the article yourself.PaxEquilibrium 23:05, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Serbia is in every possible and imaginable way, the Weimar Republic. --PaxEquilibrium 14:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

That's definitely not good. What happens now? Can he really do that and assume emergency powers? Wouldn't the president have the first mandate to gain emergency powers? —Nightstallion (?) 15:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

In Serbia the President only has very little powers in fact. With Premier Kostunica's mandate rendered illegitimate, the Assembly Speaker is the one in charge, and the Parliament of Serbia is by scale the most powerful of the three branches in Serbia. --PaxEquilibrium 20:22, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Shit, then... What will happen...? —Nightstallion (?) 21:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm really on edge on this one... but I believe that new elections will come and... there is nothing at all I can predict (except that DSS will probably not vote for State of Emergency). Also, check out National Assembly of Serbia - the Organization bit still needs your help. --PaxEquilibrium 22:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems they agreed on a government now... Well, a final election between radicals and democrats would have been interesting, but this outcome is likely the stabler one. —Nightstallion (?) 12:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

---

By the way, check out http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Template:Serbian_parliamentary_election%2C_2007. See which one has the "+" and which one "-". What do you think? ;0) --PaxEquilibrium 22:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Yep, I know. :) —Nightstallion (?) 12:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Fascist National Party

Someone moved Fascist National Party to National Fascist Party. This is wrong 'cos the correct translation for Partito Nazionale Fascista is "Fascist National Party". Can you rollback that edit? --Checco 17:21, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. —Nightstallion (?) 18:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! --Checco 18:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry to intervene, but that move makes no sense (it is also incomplete, as the talk page will show you). Not only is the name arbitrary, not only is it ungrammatical, not only is it a twist of the Italian original, not only is it not present in sources, but the revert had been carried out by administrators (and it was originally named "National Fascist Party", until the unilateral move). For proper usage, see [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. Dahn 18:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

But it is a wrong translation... in English we translate Partito Socialista Democratico Italiano into "Italian Democratic Socialist Party" and, of course, Partito Nazionale Fascista into "National Fascist Party". The opposite would be ungrammatical, indeed the first adjective after the substantive in Italian is always the last one in English. I hope that you understand: there are grammatical rules and we are supposed to follow them. --Checco 18:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Checco. —Nightstallion (?) 18:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I actually understand Italian and my native language has quite similar grammar. In this context, the PDSI is actually a quirk, not the PNF. But that is an aside, as, even if the translation would be wrong, wikipedia doesn't invent language, it simply records it; that is to say, if the name is commonly translated as such into English, it stays as such on English wikipedia. I had a similar debate with Romanians over the use of "Greater Romania Party" (which in Romanian is actually closer to "Great Romania Party", but the English-language sources almost never mention it under the latter name) and the "Everything for the Fatherland Party" (which, in the Romanian original, is closer to "Everything for the Country"). As I have indicated, the translation in use for the PNF (which is also the right one), is "National Fascist Party". Dahn 18:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

If I got it right, google shows 899 results for Fascist National Party, with the search limited to this exact succession of words and excluding wikipedia.org (which includes references to the "fascist National Party"). A similar search for "National Fascist party" yields 12,200 results (presumably, with some instances of some other "national+fascist party", but less likely). Dahn 19:09, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I understand. Even I, when studing at the International Baccalureate, I studied books speaking about the "National Fascist Party", but that translation is wrong and I think that en.Wiki must stick to grammatical correctness. That translation is simply wrong and I think that we need to start using the correct one. Also books will follow someday. --Checco 06:33, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Finnish 2 Euro Commemorative 2007

Hello...

I still have a stand ready and wait order for this coin to be released in 2007. Where did you hear otherwise?

--Theeuro 10:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

The German website formerly used as a source in the article. —Nightstallion (?) 12:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Overuse of flagicons

Can you stop reverting all edits made to templates, the overuse of flagicons is unnecessary when the template is only dealing with one location.--padraig3uk 13:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

No, because I any many others do not agree. It does not add loading time at all, as the flag image has to be loaded only once, and looks far more pleasing as far as aesthetics are concerned. —Nightstallion (?) 14:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

That is your opinon, I regard the overuse of flags in cases like this as petty, it adds nothing to the template and is only eyecandy, it also makes the templates very un-professional looking.--padraig3uk 15:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Many others agree with me, but you don't seem to notice that. —Nightstallion (?) 15:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually flagicons are one of the best parts of Wikipedia, and they make a page look much nicer and neater. ¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 17:11, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Government

Well this is how it's been - Kostunica agreed to succeed to all demands of DS (security agencies, Ministries, New Serbia,...) but under one term - that Tomislav Nikolic remains President for the entire time.

I think this was his ace - DS could never accept it.

Right now DS, DSS and G17+ are negotiating a government, and it appears that DS is slightly withdrawing from its demands, as Kostunica is dead serious with this - but wait for a few hours, there is still possibilities that the present negotiations fail too (not likely for now however). The Security Agencies will likely be split between DS and DSS - one by DS and the other by DSS for the first 2 years and then switching. The Ministry of Internal Affairs will remain to the controversial Dragan Jocic of DSS, while Defense and other similar Ministries will go to DS. Boris Tadic will be President of the Security Agencies Council, which would effectively name him personally in charge for it. They also agreed to remove Tomislav Nikolic from the Presidential seat. Kostunica asked Tomislav to resign without any notion, in order to "clean the dirt" from Kostunica's name; but he won't as he's now deeply pissed off. ;0)

It is of great importance that DS controls all this, because in their electoral campaign, they promised completing cooperation with the Hague and opening all secret files of the state for the public. This is why EU considers Tadic must have these... well, at least he got most of 'em. :) Although this means that cooperation with EU and the Hague will not be as effective as it could be. --PaxEquilibrium 14:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

National_Assembly_of_Serbia#Boards. This is where I need(ed) your help.

Looks fine to me... —Nightstallion (?) 15:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I think Kostunica's all plans have limited themselves to proving that no one can do anything without him, and that he is absolutely needed everywhere. --PaxEquilibrium 14:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I will be very glad the day he's finally gone... —Nightstallion (?) 14:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Not something that will happen very soon. If this government is more successful than the previous one (more if it gets even more than the first democratic government), Kostunica will return his glory. And in any way, he's not going to leave soon (considering the circumstances). --PaxEquilibrium 14:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. ::sighs:: —Nightstallion (?) 15:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Not quite. I didn't manage to translate some of the Boards' names, and can't seem to line up the Vice-Presidents.

Oh, and Tomislav Nikolic has refused to schedule the next session of the National Assembly for tomorrow as asked by the DS-DSS-G17+ coalition. He's furious, he is drawing straws in the Constitution and various Laws stating that he will schedule the assembly's session 24 hours after the parties announced the changes in the parliamentary majority; and he wants to schedule the session for 12 May 2007 8:00 PM (note the time!). As the Radicals and Socialist are insane with fury, it's going to be a very long and hard one (much like the one on which Tomislav Nikolic was elected Speaker).

He is also calling for his right not to hold sessions deep into the night, which means that if the Democrat Bloc does not succeed to dethrone Nikolic in 4 hours, he will dismiss the Assembly and reschedule it for 13 May 2007.

The strongest Radical and Socialist weapon is delaying the constitution of the Government using numerous Amandments, their last last hope is to try to delay it enough until midnight (not likely to succeed, if he's replaced). --PaxEquilibrium 22:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I've corrected a few translations. Say, seriously, are the Serbian voters stupid enough not to notice if Tomic keeps an agreed government from being formed and forces elections? Would they really *NOT* punish him at the polling station for this idiocy? —Nightstallion (?) 07:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

No, because one million people actually count on that. They hope the government will not be formed, so that they'll be able to vote for Seselj's Radicals again.

If there's one who will be punished at the next election, that's definitely Kostunica... I think he would be weaker than G17+. --PaxEquilibrium 10:05, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

That would be quite nice. ;) Do you think Nikolic will force an election? —Nightstallion (?) 10:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Since the past 4 months were most probably never seen elsewhere in the world, I wouldn't be surprised if they change their mind again tomorrow, so it's very hard to see anything into the future. yesterday was a 5-hour show (literally, show) on the national television "After all - Government?" dedicated to presenting the past three months under the slogan "After Three Months, Three Days before the End, Three Parties Agree to form the Government". It's absolutely hilarious... ;)

But no, no matter how the irredentists are insane, they won't be able to delay the actual proclamation for 72 hours. ;) --PaxEquilibrium 10:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Too bad, I would have loved to see Kostunica go down the drain. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 10:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't. His electoral body would be split between DS and SRS, and while he is a buffer of the SRS, he's very useful. And he is a very, extremely, power-hungry demagogue - but he's not *evil, insane or similar*, and he's only the "Bad dude" if we observe the Democrat Bloc solely; but if we observe the entire political image - Kostunica is the Messiah (with the presence of SRS & SPS).

By the way, the former President of the Constitutional Court (everything is still unelected and non-existent in Serbia) said that everyone misread the Constitution - and that the countdown start from the day after the assembly's session, and that's 15 February. So, the running-out date is 15 May 2007, in which case it's practically impossible for the irredentists to prolong the sessions that long. ;0)

Did you watch this year's Eurovision Song Contest? Marija Serifovic's "Prayer"? She made that song as a prayer for the Government's formation. :) Another funny thing is that the government contract was signed exactly the moment she started singing (in second). :))) --PaxEquilibrium 12:49, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Mh, yeah, you've got a point. Yeah, I saw the semi-finals; Hungary, Serbia, Portugal and Norway were the best, IMO. —Nightstallion (?) 13:09, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Who do you think stands most chance in winning (of all the 28 competitors) tonight? --PaxEquilibrium 14:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

---

I edited your notes to correct to the 15 May date and removed the fact that they'll wait until Kosovo becomes independent. Hope you don't mind. --PaxEquilibrium 14:09, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Is it really required for Serbia for those last 4 at your notes to be arrested? Also, how do you know Serbia is going to join NATO one day certainly? Not a single politician in Serbia has ever brought the subject and I do not see the other world's politicians mentioning that possibility. --PaxEquilibrium 14:17, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, the negotiations started on 2 November 2005 are long over and have failed (at the beginning of this year), your notes give the image that they still last. --PaxEquilibrium 14:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems Serbia might win like I guessed. ;) --PaxEquilibrium 21:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

this image stinks deeply. Borka Vucic (ally of Slobodan Milosevic) was the acting President, Tomislav Nikolic leader of the Serbian Radical Party was the Speaker for 4 days, and now a member of the Socialist Party of Serbia is the acting President. This image is very disturbing.

Nenad Canak explained this perfectly by saying "When a Cockroach's head is cut off, it can live for 9 days until it dies of hunger". :) --PaxEquilibrium 14:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Mathematics CotW

Hey Nightstallion, I am writing you to let you know that the Mathematics Collaboration of the week(soon to "of the month") is getting an overhaul of sorts and I would encourage you to participate in whatever way you can, i.e. nominate an article, contribute to an article, or sign up to be part of the project. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks--Cronholm144 23:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Templates

Can you help me with Template:2001 Italian general election in Veneto-Senate? And can you put colors in Template:2006 Italian general election in Veneto-Chamber of Deputies, Template:2006 Italian general election in Veneto-Senate, Template:Italian general election, 2006-Deputies and Template:Italian general election, 2006-Senate? --Checco 10:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

For the first one, you have to enter the coalition parties or the rowspan tags will not look sensible. Adding colours should be fairly easily done by simply mirroring other templates, but if you really can't manage, let me know. —Nightstallion (?) 13:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I find it difficult to understand what I need to do for the first template. Indeed in this template there are no coalition parties to add (see Template:Italian general election, 2001-Senate). --Checco 14:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I was able to do it! --Checco 14:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Great! :) Do you still need help with the colours or not? And any political news from Italy worth hearing? —Nightstallion (?) 15:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I would like to insert colours in all the templates about Italian, Ventian and Sicilian elections which haven't them. Can you work on a template or two, so that I learn how to do this operation?

It can seem strange, but there are no relevant political news from Italy, execpt a oceanic rally of Catholics and non Catholics in Rome in protest to the policies on the family of the government and the proposed introduction of civil unions. --Checco 15:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Mh, those are all a bit large and I haven't got too much time right now, but basically, it's like this: Take a look at the 2001 election template. See the bgcolor="cornflowerblue" and similar tags? Those put the colour into the otherwise empty cells just before the names. —Nightstallion (?) 15:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Nothing to do about it. No problem, I will wait for your help if you have the time, otherwise I can live without colours in the templates. --Checco 15:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

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Election stubs

Hi there, First off, I would like to congratulate you for the fine, fine work you do with all the election-related articles on Wikipedia. It is very much appreaciated by me. I just wanted to inform you that articles are now being sorted by continent, so, for example, Latvia should be under "Euro-election-stub" rather than than just "election-stub". Thanks and keep up the fantastic job.--Thomas.macmillan 20:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the praise, and for bringing that to my attention. —Nightstallion (?) 22:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

It's done

The SPS and SRS have proven to be quite formidable... but not sufficiently enough. :D

Only seconds ago, 10 minutes until the end, the Constituive Assembly was dismissed and new Government of Serbia created.

Well I was close, I said 5 minutes. ;0) --PaxEquilibrium 21:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! Hope we'll finally see a sensible resolution to the Mladic/Karadzic and Kosovo issues now, as well as more action for Serbia's economy and EU accession... —Nightstallion (?) 22:03, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, Rehn is coming tomorrow to Belgrade to re-open the negotiations as per the promise (they promised that negotiations will re-open after the long 1 year+ pause if a democratic government is formed) and very soon sign the admission treaty. Negotiations for becoming an official Candidate for the EU will continue afterwards. Since 2 of the demands have been fulfilled, an EU inspection will come and in the following months oversee progress regarding the last demand, and afterwards the signing of SA will come.

Well it's over for the economic view, 2007 is wasted and Serbia will face probably heavy difficulties in 2008, it's 2009 & 2010 that this newfound democratic alliance will have to count on to gain trust of the common folk (if it lasts that long, DS and DSS are the greatest enemies in the Democrat Bloc). --PaxEquilibrium 10:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, we'll see how it proceeds from here...

One interesting thing is that the seat of the Premier is not so strong enough. Bozidar Djelic is not just "Deputy Prime Minister", he's actually literally the "Vice-President" of the Government right now. Also he's the "...for European Integrations": all authorities regarding integrations with the European relations/integrations do not at all lie in Kostunica's hands, but in Djelic's.

I'm glad that there's now a Bosniac Minister, and that many Ministers are still Montenegrins. Though it's sad for the Croatian community that their only Minister (Ivana Dulic-Markovic) is no longer in the Cabinet. I am also disappointed that Leon Cohen refused the seat of Secretary-General of the Government (he was supposed to serve a half-term and then the other half as the Minister for Kosovo and Metochia), it would've meant a lot for the Jewish community in Serbia, and it would've made the entire Serbian government multi-cultural and multi-confessional.

Also, USA will not recognize the independence of Kosovo single-handedly should there no agreement be reached in the United Nations Security Council (Daniel Fried). --PaxEquilibrium 18:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh and LDP has blackened its name a lot. DS, DSS-NS and G17+ have elected the government with the support of even some minorities. LDP has opposed in the voting, which only SRS and SPS did next to them.

Well, I suppose they did that because of their dislike for DSS-NS and Kostunica, which I can understand... —Nightstallion (?) 13:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Half-protection

Hi! I think the Hirohito artricle is vandalised often enough to win the right to be half protected. Can you do this (or learn me how to do... ;o) Švitrigaila 14:55, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

File a WP:RFP, I believe. —Nightstallion (?) 14:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Logo of the Northern Ireland Assembly notext.gif

Hello, Nightstallion. An automated process has found and will an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that is in your userspace. The image (Image:Logo of the Northern Ireland Assembly notext.gif) was found at the following location: User:Nightstallion/notes. This image or media will be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media will be replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. This does not necessarily mean that the image is being deleted, or that the image is being removed from other pages. It is only being removed from the page mentioned above. All mainspace instances of this image will not be affected Please find a free image or media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 18:43, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of political parties in Guernsey

Please be careful when adding comments to AfD pages that you do not delete other's comments, as in this edit: [9]. Cheers, cab 23:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Oops, sorry; don't know how that happened. —Nightstallion (?) 14:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Strange Question

Do you speak (natively) German or Austrian language? --PaxEquilibrium 12:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd say Austrian German, yeah, although I can imitate a German German accent decently well, too. Why? —Nightstallion (?) 13:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I actualy literally meant *Austrian language*. I ask because of the issue of the *Montenegrin language*. --PaxEquilibrium 22:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Mh. In the sense of the question, yes, I would, especially as foreigners (e.g. even university professors for German in non-German countries) tend not to recognise Austrian as correct German, so it's obviously different enough to be considered "incorrect" German. So yes, I would venture that Austrian could easily be classified as its own language in the same right that some other languages are. —Nightstallion (?) 05:46, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:CAN logo.PNG

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Image:Farcflag.PNG

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Parti social libéral européen

Are you sure that the best translation is European Social Liberal Party or is it more correct "European Liberal Social Party"? --Checco 12:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

The correct term is "social liberal" as they refer to social liberalism. —Nightstallion (?) 12:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that they refer to social liberalism. The translation you proposed (and that also I wrote in the article on UDF) sounds better, but I think that, as the structure of French language is similar to that of Italian language, it would be more correct "European Liberal Social Party". --Checco 12:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

You can't generalise in this point -- sometimes, all the adjectives need to be in inverted order, sometimes two or more of them form a specific phrase which should not be changed. I'm fairly certain they *ARE* referring to social liberalism and *NOT* to liberal socialism, which would be the meaning of your proposed translation, as they definitely see themselves in the centre (i.e. social liberalism) and not on the left (i.e. liberal socialism). —Nightstallion (?) 12:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok for the translation (even if I can't understand in what sense "liberal social" would mean a reference to liberal socialism, as parties often have names in contrast with their ideology), but I continue to think that PSLE is everything but a social liberal party. It is indeed a liberal-centrist party, formed by the conservative faction of UDF. MoDem is social liberal, PSLE is liberal-centrist. Anyway it's all right. --Checco 12:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Split necessary

I want to split the table in the ruling coalition and the opposition, but I have a problem with the minorities (*technically* they belong to neither). I'd also like to do it, but keeping a single table - to avoid braking them into three. --PaxEquilibrium 13:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Slash that. --PaxEquilibrium 13:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not quite satisfied with this. --PaxEquilibrium 13:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Mh. I don't really get why you wanted to split it, but I think it's okay as it is now...? —Nightstallion (?) 15:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Because the main opposition at the top of the table just simply makes no sense... but since you don't like it, I reverted. --PaxEquilibrium 18:19, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Dashes

I noted with interest that the Wikipedia Manual of Style says not to use en-dashes in article titles (see here)! Were you aware of this? Number 57 17:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Yep, but for typographical and stylistic reasons, we've been ignoring this for quite some time... —Nightstallion (?) 18:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

DPS 5th Congress

...is just over. Milo Djukanovic is reelected party president. Filip Vujanovic, Svetozar Marovic and Zeljko Sturanovic as Vice-Presidents.

Ah well... perhaps the new Constitution (7 days remaining for open discussion; by 28 May they have to agree about the Constitution) will bring some changes... new elections immediately afterwards (general) is what I'm counting on right now. --PaxEquilibrium 19:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

What happens if they don't have a new constitution by that date? —Nightstallion (?) 14:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Well there is a proposal for the Constitution, presented by Milo and the DPS. However there are countless amendments from nearly every single opposition and/or minority party. That's why this "public discussion" lasts until 28 May (previously it was August, but the Parliament prolonged the negotiations for a whole month because the ruling coalition and the opposition met no progress).

If by 28 May the Assembly does not agree to a final form of the Constitution (super-majority required), the ruling DPS-SDP coalition will present Milo's version and President of the Republic Filip Vujanovic is obliged to schedule a referendum. --PaxEquilibrium 15:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Which will be quite interesting... ;) —Nightstallion (?) 15:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

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Yucatán state election, 2007

Why is the correct name for the article Yucatán state election, 2007 and not 2007 Yucatán state election but for the category is Category:2007 elections in Mexico and not Category:Elections in Mexico, 2007? --FateClub 15:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Because all election articles follow the naming format "Region type election, year". I don't know about categories, I don't really work too much with those. Likely simply a misnamed category. —Nightstallion (?) 15:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

No, it was a vote to change all to "year stuff in country" Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_26#Elections_in_Mexico_by_year --FateClub 01:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, okay then. Still, the articles on elections will keep the current format as described. —Nightstallion (?) 16:30, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Financing

There's a huge problem over the financing of the Serbian parties during the 2007 parliamentary election. PSS of Karic spent much more than allowed, so it's gonna pay a huge fine to the state - and we all know Bogoljub Karić. On the other matters, no one wants to reveal who donated finances for the campaigns! This has evolved into great suspicions and rumors, traditionally calling some parties "traitors" and otherwise. Most rumors show that DS was funded by EU, France, USA, Germany, the Serb(ian) Republic and Montenegro; SRS funded by Zhirinovski, LePen and even by great part money came from Havana (sic!) and even from circles no one has ever heard of (some go to Beijing)!; LDP's main finance-donor was the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government in Pristina... lol --PaxEquilibrium 20:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Heh, serves Karic right. ;) I'm not really surprised about those sources of funding, actually... —Nightstallion (?) 21:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Djindjic's assassins

...sentenced after 3-4 long and hard years of court sessions. Got 40 years (maximum sentence). --PaxEquilibrium 13:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Good news. —Nightstallion (?) 13:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Speaker

Oliver Dulić is finally elected Speaker! This is a good thing, because since no Minister is Croat anymore (or Deputy Minister) - now the President of the Parliament is (compliments come from Croatia). :) --PaxEquilibrium 15:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yay! —Nightstallion (?) 16:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, this is used by the Radicals to show how Serbia is being too Yugoslavian-like. There are around 50,000-60,000 Croats in Serbia, which has more than 10,000,000 citizens. They say that only when the highly jeopardized Serb minority in Croatia receives at least some level of rights Croats have in Serbia (there are 200,000 Serbs in Croatia; were 700,000 before the war), then will they support "Ustashas" for high-ranking officials.

If you ask my opinion, I think that this should just be an example and that other Balkan countries should follow Serbia's footsteps, regardless how the issues surrounding Serbia are *nationalistic* (they obviously aren't in Serbia). --PaxEquilibrium 16:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Czechia

Have you seen this and this? —MC 18:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Indeed not, thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 16:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Redirect of Forgotten kingdoms

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Serbian Radical Party

...did you hear? --PaxEquilibrium 10:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Nope, not yet, I'll be able to read news again tomorrow -- what happened? —Nightstallion (?) 13:07, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

SRS is all nice and beautiful, the closer it is to power. However the further away from it it is - it's more and more extreme. Several days ago the police arrested some young extremists that replaced the "Street of AVNOJ" (future "Street of Zoran Djindjic") with "Street of Ratko Mladic". The SRS vice-president the day before yesterday protested in the Assembly's constitutive session bringing a table "Street of Ratko Mladic" to the parliament and asking them if the police will arrest him tomorrow. Yesterday, the Radicals have amassed a huge alliance and army, numbering hundreds of people across Belgrade. They included the "Serbian Orthodox Patriotic League", sympathizer and members of that (still just de jure though) militant "Guard of Emperor Lazarus" and all Yugoslav-wars veterans, as well as some prominent members from neo-nazi groups.

They walked the entire main streets in Belgrade, putting "Street of Ratko Mladic" across them and kissing them. They also besieged the B92 TV Station, yelling at them "Ustashas! Traitors!" Vice-President of the Serb Radicals Aleksandar Vucic orchestrated it, but political immunity protected him from arrest.

Then the LDP organized a counter-meeting. They greeted the Serbian Radicals and their allies with the nazi greeting and chased them off from the B92 building, taking off the pro-Ratko Mladic posters.

This has received harsh critics from practically everyone, including the Milosevic's legacy SPS. However to a much bizarre disappointment for the people, the authorities have made absolutely no response to the outrageous incident. --PaxEquilibrium 17:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd heard about the street name incident... The rest really doesn't sound good... —Nightstallion (?) 08:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Croatian Premier

...likely to be Milan Bandic. --PaxEquilibrium 09:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems good to me. SDP strongly ahead in the polls? —Nightstallion (?) 09:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Well nothing changed from that poll you saw. However that still doesn't remove my personal concern to the ongoing issue with the war (remember?).

I think the main disappointment in HDZ lies in the fact that unlike SRS, they have somehow managed to hide their extremism, but the people still constantly seeing the spread of nationalism (i.e. a similar thing that could be added to the DSS in Serbia; "We support peace, love and justice; rights for the Serbs and other minorities and Euro-Atlantic integrations and cooperation with the ICTY, but we adore and cherish our ideological founder Franjo Tudjman, Ante Gotovina is a great national hero and the war against the Republic of Serbian Krajina was the purest war of them all, a just war with no atrocities committed except individualized incidents for which HDZ is in no way responsible"... Does this kind of acting sound familiar to you? --PaxEquilibrium 19:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Aye, indeed... —Nightstallion (?) 19:15, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

---

BTW if you're interested in some other, there's the Croatian People's Party – Liberal Democrats. There is also the Croatian Social Liberal Party, but it has a controversial past (much like SNP in Montenegro).

Oh and, some say that Ivo Banac is (or rather, was) the Croatian Cedomir Jovanovic.

What do you think about the new Logo of the DPS? --PaxEquilibrium 19:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

An optical improvement, I'd say. —Nightstallion (?) 19:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

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Re: Kosovo

I hardly believe that West and Russia could find an agreement anywhere, so I'm gonna wait until 8 June 2007 to see if the story is covered. But if it indeed is true, than it's at least some good news. However I don't get the 2-year period in which Kosovo won't be allowed to enter the UN; I see no point in there. --PaxEquilibrium 18:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Neither do I; BTW, Russian diplomats have already denied such an agreement exists or is even possible. —Nightstallion (?) 18:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Other problems

There're other problems. The International Holocaust Commission is demanding that Serbia, Bosnia and Republika Srpska charge Croatia for the WWII Genocide!

They want official recognition that 700,000 Serbs and others (Roms, Jews, anti-fascists) have been executed, harsh sentencing of the "Jasenovac Genocide Denial" and retributions to its victims and their heirs.

The horrible moments, going in package with the suits for a "criminal mass-attempt to eradicate the Serb population", in which Ivo Sanader's close associates are 'eye-sighted' by the Hague, are not well at all. Public outbursts are on the verge in Croatia.

This does not seem good at all. I think the situation is now far worse in Croatia than in Serbia (even after the Ratko Mladic street incident)... I am terrified how will this go, especially the fact that it might go negative effect and actually buy more votes for HDZ and HSP in the forthcoming election... uhhh... --PaxEquilibrium 18:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

French parties

What you think about the move of PSLE to Nouveau Centre and, consequently, to the last changes on that article and in Democratic Movement (France) and Union for French Democracy? --Checco 22:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be correct, no? —Nightstallion (?) 13:53, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but I will translate "Nouveau Centre" to "New Centre". --Checco 15:08, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Having read the site of the new party, it seems to me that "New Centre" is a slogan, while the very name of the party is "European Social Liberal Party". What do you think? --Checco 15:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the correct name of the article should be "New Centre - European Social Liberal Party", even if it is too much long... --Checco 15:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not certain; New Centre is certainly the name it uses most currently, so we should probably stick with that. —Nightstallion (?) 15:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok. --Checco 17:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Leuce/OmegaT

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Wikipedia:Leuce/OmegaT, by Black Falcon, another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Wikipedia:Leuce/OmegaT fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason:

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Samoa & Napoleon

Hi,

I think that, according to the articles 23 and 25 of the Constitution of the Independent State of Samoa, you were wrong when you reverted that.

And what do you think of this requested move? Švitrigaila 20:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree with Samoa -- they "shall perform the functions of the head of state", but that does not mean that they *are* the acting O le Ao o le Malö. When Thomas Klestil had died, Wolfgang Schüssel briefly served the functions of head of state until Heinz Fischer took office, but that did *NOT* mean that Schüssel was acting president. —Nightstallion (?) 10:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe not an acting president, no. But an acting head of state, surely yes. And I thought that it was not the prime minister in Austria, but the head of the parliament? Rulers.org says it was Andreas Khol after Klestil's death. I read the Constitution of Austria but I can't see anywhere the possibility for a president to die. It's strange since dying in office is a great specialty of the Austrian presidents. Švitrigaila 10:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Rulers.org is absolutely wrong on that, I quote Art. 64. Abs. 1 B-VG:

“ Article 64 [Temporary Discharge]

(1) All of the Federal President's responsibilities, should he be prevented from their discharge, pass in the first instance to the Federal Chancellor. If the impediment lasts longer than twenty days or if pursuant to Article 60 (6) the Federal President is prevented from the discharge of his office, the President, the Second President, and the Third President of the House of Representatives acting as a committee shall undertake the responsibilities of the Federal President. The same applies if the position of the Federal President is continuously deficient.

”

So it was Schüssel. Still, he is not considered to have been acting president, and not even acting head of state; I'm fairly certain the same thing applies for Samoa. —Nightstallion (?) 10:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

So I guess that President of Austria is wrong too. Could you correct it and comment your modifications please... If you can find time, sorry. Švitrigaila 21:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Corrected. You could have noticed, BTW, all the other "acting" presidents are PMs, too. —Nightstallion (?) 14:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Your modification is already countermodified : [10]. I'm afraid User 84.172.225.157 can indeed be right. I guess that if the president is dead, we can say that "the position of the Federal President is continuously deficient". If it is, then "the same applies". What's "the same"? "The same" seems to be that "if (...) the Federal President is prevented from the discharge of his office, the President, the Second President, and the Third President of the House of Representatives acting as a committee shall undertake the responsibilities of the Federal President". So in this case it's not the prime minister. I know that prime ministers Figl, Klaus and Kreisky undertook the responsabilities of the president in the past, but the Constitution may have been modified since. ... Or not? Švitrigaila 19:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Constitution of Montenegro

It lasted until 31 May because of long discussions.

It's over, and there was no consensus on one very painful issue: the Church problem.

Now 15 days have to pass which is the time for the Constitutional Board of the Parliament of the Republic of Montenegro to "cook" all the data and authorize the last version of the Constitution proposal... but these are all just formalities, the Constitution proposal, for now, does not have the required parliamentary super-majority... perhaps a miracle might happen in closed Deputy cabinet's unofficial negotiations that will occur in the following half-month period... (Milo is buying [literally] votes in the assembly). --PaxEquilibrium 12:58, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

So, either it is passed on 15 June or the president'll have to call a referendum? —Nightstallion (?) 15:05, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Well basically, but there is still a certain time period after the 15 June to officially propose it, or to schedule the referendum (even longer if the first is done and fails)... things take very slow, do not expect the Constitution - or the referendum - soon. --PaxEquilibrium 15:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

It appears that there is parliamentary majority. The ruling coalition (DPS [+HGI] and SDP) has given up from endorsing just "Montenegrin language" official, and has succumbed to PZP's demand for "Montenegrin, Serbian" or a "MonteSerbian" mix. However there is still but one problem. Milo's league doesn't want to hold general elections immediately after the Constitution's proclamation (as per Serbia's case), and PzP will simply not support the constitutional proposal if Milo does not agree to it. This is all because Milo can, evidently, only lose from the election - because the national euphoria from Montenegrin independence is all over now. When 41 of the DPS, SDP are combined with PzP's 11, only one more seat is needed. And Milo's traditional ethnic Albanian minority ally, the DUA (which is also in the Government), will grant it.

The rest of the opposition is either furious because the Montenegrin language, which does not exist, is going to be mentioned in the constitution - or because this Constitution is less liberal and democratic from the previous 1992 one. Milo's replacing his old Constitution with a new one, allegedly, "making a braking from his own policies"??? I myself don't know if the Government should succumb to the demands for new elections afterwards, or if PzP should bring it to the Referendum... in which case Milo might cut out some of the applied proposals of the opposition... What'd' ya think? --PaxEquilibrium 15:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Mh. I'm not sure whether Milo will concede on that point... I somehow doubt it. —Nightstallion (?) 18:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

But polls say that these countless elections and referendums have drawn the Montenegrin people to the brink of madness (local elections, referendums, presidential elections, federal elections for Yugoslavia,...). Not a single state in Europe has had so many elections, censuses, referendum, political changes (where peoples are not replaced, but they rather replace ideologies and parties, e.g. a Serb becomes a Montenegrin, a criminal becomes an angel and an atheist becomes a fanatic) more than in Montenegro. This last referendum had an outstanding turnout, over 86% (compared to the previous one, when barely 66% was reached), mainly because the people thought that it's finally the end. If a referendum is... then Milo will have a very hard task of yet again convincing the Montenegrin people that actually this is the end... and I reckon he will fail this time. What I am afraid of is that those against Milo will simply give up, and a thing that happened in the late 1990s in Serbia that kept Milosevic in power repeats... the small political elite keeping itself in power, until the international community reacts or until Milo's death... a gruesome destiny for my ancient homeland the moment I think of it... --PaxEquilibrium 18:45, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Social Democratic Party of Croatia

Tomorrow night is the epic election of Racan's heir. There are four candidates. All four are promoting four distinctive ideologies and whoever is elected tomorrow, will be the most powerful man in Croatia in just several months.

It is evident that SDP will be the largest party, although I'm not sure if it will have parliamentary majority solely.

There are 4 candidates. Milan Bandic is my personal favorite, he is both the strongest candidate and has a moderate line in everything, and himself a poor people's man, is a representer of the real Social Democracy. But ever since Racan's illness, Željka Antunović is leading SDP. That has brought her quite a lot of popularity. Her aim is utmost leftist, and although I'd like a woman in charge for a slight change, I still think that Bandic is more capable than her (personally), and she's far "too much left".

One of the other 2 candidates is the leader of the conservative branch, he is slightly like a member of the HDZ and uses the Just war concept for the Homeland war to reach popularity. I pray that he does not win. The last candidate is an insignificant figure that stands no chance to win.

You should add the even to your notes. --PaxEquilibrium 15:57, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I suppose this means the conservative candidate won? —Nightstallion (?) 21:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh well. I guess that Liberal-Conservatism+Social-Democracy is always better than Ultranationalism+Christian-Democracy, no? Think of this - this way at least, SDP will probably snatch even more votes, and there is a greater possibility it will have absolute majority in the Parliament. ;) --PaxEquilibrium 14:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Slovenian coins

Hi again (and again),

Since the introduction of the euro in Slovenia, I've never seen one Slovenian coin in France. And I check every coin I get. Luxembourgian coins are relativly rare, but they happen few times in a mounth. Finnish, Greek, Irish coins are not uncommon. But from Slovenia, nothing. Since you live in Austria, do you find Slovenian coins easily? Švitrigaila 10:41, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Nope, not a single one; there's simply too few of them. —Nightstallion (?) 10:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Comment requested

Hi Nightstallion;

How are you? I used to post on your talk page from time to time when I was Cfvh, if you do not remember. I have posted on a few administrators' pages requesting comment at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive814#Harassment by Tfoxworth. It is the second time that I have posted about the issue and I have not received comment yet. Would you mind reviewing it briefly? Thanks! Charles 18:06, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

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Milo's tactics

Don't you think Milo is one of the most impressive politicians in the world? He has outbested Slobodan Milosevic himself. The amount of trickeries applied by him are quite a lot fascinating.

For example, during the 2003 population census he propagated the people to circle a new tick that has just been proposed, "Montenegrin language". Millions were invested in the campaign, but he lost in the end, with only a small minority declaring their language Montenegrin, and most Serbian. Such a powerful hit most thought that it was his final end (right after the assassination of a journalist who fought for voices to be heard, after the sex-slave trafficking incident and after the cigarettes and weapons smuggling "mistakes" and the civil unrests), but he tactfully altered it. For in the next, 2004, his DPS Education Minister changed the language taught in schools from "Serbian language" to "Mother tongue". This was followed by a purge, firing hundreds of frustrated Serbian language professors from state schools, replacing them with loyal members of the DPS. And so with the "Mother tongue" trick he has managed to do what he failed during the Census Campaign, and managed to push out the Serbian language. Today, it has payed out, for the effect has had that now many desire the "Montenegrin language" in the Constitution.

Another tricky thing is that during the promises in the past years, he promised to make "Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Serbian" all official, and that was one of his (past) many promises. He planned on gaining support from the minorities and from the democrats for it - but today, with the odds for introducing the Montenegrin language evidently on his side, he has dropped it, demanding just the Montenegrin language.

I don't even need to mention the huge swift from a Serbian nationalist to a Montenegrin independist and from a closest supporter of Slobodan Milosevic to an ally of the west. Personally, if I look for political demagogues, Milo is my favorite. --PaxEquilibrium 11:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Quite impressive, really, though his reputation's pretty bad here -- he's usually not even taken seriously and regarded mainly as a cigarette smuggler boss... —Nightstallion (?) 14:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

That's because the world rarely writes 'bout him. For example, in 1991-1992 it's his Cabinet that organized the Siege of Dubrovnik. In '91 he himself was overseeing and practically in place taking charge of the actual battleplans and the shelling of the city. In many internment camps Croatian POWs were mistreated and in some extreme cases brought to death; all occurring with Milo Djukanovic in office. And today he manages to maintain brilliant relations with Croatia. Recently, he has even apologized and payed retribution cash to the Croatian government for stealing (literally himself) countless herds of cattle from the Konavle region in '91/2.

His dreams of a "Greater Montenegro" that would include the southern Dalmatian coastline around Dubrovnik, and possibly Herzegovina too, has completely replaced for a pro-EuroAtlantic attitude and democratic tensions. Not a single transition from old Communist dictatorship has managed to make such a transformation and "go through it" in the world.

We could also remember the late 1992 purge of Montenegrin Muslims (in reminding of the 18th expulsions of Ottoman Turks from Montenegro), when they were systematically hunted down and captured by the Montenegrin Police (of Milo's Cabinet, with his direct order) and Milo's special forces. Yuch... --PaxEquilibrium 20:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to mention the single most impressing thing. At all population censuses from 1948 to 1991, the census listed all Yugoslav citizens within the (People's/Socialist) Republic of Montenegro and all Yugoslavian citizenship-holders that live abroad, outside Yugoslavia, that come from Montenegro. After Yugoslavia was reduced to a rump Yugoslav state in 1992, people from Montenegro living in the non-Serbia 4 ex Yu republics started to get listed as Montenegrin citizens too (could apply for citizenship), but because of the war and other inconveniences that number never became high. As the diaspora has virtually the same rights as citizens (voting, etc.) it became significantly important for Montenegrins living abroad. In 2003, FRY was restructured to a Serbo-Montenegrin state union, and Montenegrin citizenship separated from Yugoslav. Thus, 262,000 Serbian Montenegrins applied for citizenship and got them. The same year, Milo Djukanovic gave in to the demands of the public opinion and the opposition for a population census. He stalled it for long because a movement of restoration of Serbian nationalism to Montenegrins was reactivated and became increasingly popular amongst certain portions of the popularity. Especially were in general, all who opposed Milo's hardly democratic regime united through this "Serbdom" and those who favored a State Union together with Serbia (rather than independence, as the rulers under Milo proposed) have generally accustomed to that as well. Also the Communist dictatorship was long over and the grip over the people to force them how to nationally self-declare was unbound by then. In '91 Montenegro had a strong 61.86% Montenegran majority and but a 9.34% Serb minority. And at the 2003 census, only 40.64% declared as Montenegrins, while 30.01% as Serbs.

This census traditionally counted only Montenegrin citizens, and Yugoslavian citizenship-holders from Montenegro outside S&M (excluded Montenegrins in Serbia, despite their demands, whose number grew well beyond 270,000). Thus, as before, only Montenegrin citizens and those outside the state union were allowed to vote on elections. The same case was with the Montenegrin independence referendum, 2006 when Milo denied the three hundred thousand Montenegrins in Serbia to vote, because they would be counted twice (once they are already in Serbia).

However, do you know what he did now, when Montenegro is independent? Fearing that which could happen if the diaspora (especially in Serbia) voted (oust him from power), he prepared to deal with the "problem". He revised' the 2003 population census, by excluding all 90,000 Montenegrin citizenship-holders that lived abroad S&M. It is thus that according to the new revised results, 43.16% became Montenegrins and 31.99% Serbs. So now, his movement was to simply tick-off all Montenegrin citizenships of every single Montenegrin citizen which does not permanently live in Montenegro. However this failed, but he managed to reach a compromise - he nulled their citizenships, but allowed them (nearly half a million people across the globe) to keep Montenegrin citizenship rights, and that they'll receive them only if they decide to move to Montenegro itself. It's just like it was expected - he is closing Montenegro in his pocket. All efforts now are bent on making 300,000 Montenegrin citizens in Serbia abandon their claims and just settle down as Serbians. For he would hate to see that at the next population census Serbs become the most numerous ethnic group.

Also, this way, no Montenegrin citizen that isn't an actual resident within Montenegro will be able to vote at any election... hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Montenegrin diaspora members are sending appeals to their mother state these past months. They (those living outside Serbia) hoped an independent Montenegran state could finally give them rights to claim citizenship based on their origin - but now Milo has simply cut off the very last links and threw them in the dumpster, since he no longer needs them (he needed them at the independence referendum). Interestingly enough, he did this precisely after Montenegro became an independent country (and after 300,000 Serbian Montenegrins suddenly live in a foreign country now). I guess he wouldn't like the fact that no government could be made without the Serb list. :)))

What do you personally think about all this (sorry that it's a long text, read it when you find time)? I myself think that if Milo Was US or Russian President, that country would non-doubtfully control the entire world, and not just fight for it or act like it is... --PaxEquilibrium 21:40, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm really, really glad he's just the strongman of Montenegro and not of some medium-to-large sized country... and I'm also quite glad that he seems to be in favour of the EU. Apart from that, I'm quite horrified by that large an amount of opportunism, cronyism and treachery. Impressive. —Nightstallion (?) 22:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Another good question is would he actually manage to get such status in a medium-to-large-sized country? I mean, Montenegro is so small it's practically ignored everywhere - even you, when I asked you, told me that the world barely reports of Montenegrin politics and that before I put you in you practically knew nothing... I guess this might also be the main reason for Montenegro's case... (and it's got so little population compared to Slovenia and Macedonia, drastically little - and what's more the population is dying out...) --PaxEquilibrium 23:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

---

Oh and read his constitution proposal and his party's ideology. Unlike the opposition (the Movement for Changes e.g.) his party attempts a conservative pro-European view, and says that Montenegro should take it's toll to enter the EU, "to preserve Montenegrin ethnic, historical and national identity in Europe". DPS is not for a united Europe, but a loose Serbia-and-Montenegro style union. You can also see the reason stated "to prevent bullying and national denial and revisionism of the Montenegrins and the new Montenegrin state"

Also, if this Constitution is adopted, Montenegro will not be able to enter the EU without a Referendum (the "statehood freezing bit", 'cause he fears of Montenegro losing statehood again). --PaxEquilibrium 23:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Bizarre news

Serbia: The Liberals and Serb Radicals are in an "unholy friendship", they're working together to bring down the government because of the lying and old-style legal incidents. They together call for new elections, stating that this government has lost all legitimacy with such activities. Cedomir Jovanovic has stated that this is just because of common interests, and that they'll support the ruling coalition, whenever it's dealing with cooperation with the Hague and European integration.

Bosnia: Bosnia and Herzegovian is trying the state of the Netherlands and the United Nations for Bosnian Genocide. They want them to be sentenced for the same arguments Serbia was.

What do you think about this? --PaxEquilibrium 20:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Very strange, but I can see how the LDP would strongly prefer a government with Kostunica... I sincerely doubt the BiH case is going to get anywhere, on what grounds should the UN and the Netherlands be sentenced? —Nightstallion (?) 10:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The UN would only have to take the responsibility of the occurring of the Bosnian Genocide on its back and admit that they didn't do/aren't doing enough in general in Bosnia and Herzegovina, which "allegedly" they "protect". The Kingdom of the Netherlands is asked to be sentenced the same way as Serbia on the basis of failing to prevent the genocide according to the Genocide Convention and will have just to revoke the rewards and titles it gave to the Dutch veterans from the Bosnian war. --PaxEquilibrium 12:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Mh. It will be interesting to see how the judges decide... —Nightstallion (?) 12:53, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

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Fair use rationale for Image:Latvian 2 euro coin design.JPG

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Latvian 2 euro coin design.JPG. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Latvian 1 euro coin design.JPG

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Latvian 1 euro coin design.JPG. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Rationales

Wikipedia talk:Fair use rationale guideline#What.27s_the_point.3F ¦ Reisio 02:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Non-free content#Fair_use_rationale is probably better, actually.</spam> ¦ Reisio 05:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Coalition for European Montenegro

Coalition for European Montenegro

I am trying to expand this 1998-presence political alliance. It has quite a huge history and could be very interesting, but I'm creating a mess over there.... --PaxEquilibrium 17:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It looks quite fine to me... —Nightstallion (?) 08:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Poorly written, a lot of spelling errors... er... --PaxEquilibrium 21:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

In German

Hi. What so you think about that? Could someone ask them why would letter "æ" be acceptable and not letter "ə"? Unfortunatly, my German is not good enough... Švitrigaila 09:56, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not a question of æ or ə, it's a question of ä and ə. If ä is indeed used in Azerbaijani as an equivalent to ə, I see no problem with using it in its stead... —Nightstallion (?) 10:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, the problem is that "ä" is not used in Azerbaijani as an equivalent to "ə". When Azerbajani switched from a cyrillic script to a latin script, the letter "ə", which had been added to the Azerbaijani cyrillic, was replaced by "ä". But soon after, this "ä" was replaced by "ə" again in the Azerbaijani latin scrip. This explains why "Azärbaycan" can be found on 1991 postal stamps, for example. But that's all. I agree that "Heydär Äliyev" is a more acceptable spelling than "Heydar Aliyev", but I still think it's not a good enough reason to use it instead of "Heydər Əliyev". Švitrigaila 11:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Juhan states that the Azerbaijani embassy in Berlin stated that ä was acceptable, as well... —Nightstallion (?) 11:41, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to have an evidence of it... Anyway, in spite of appearances, I really dislike the current Azerbaijani spelling. It should have been far better to transliterate their "ə" by a mere "e", and the cyrillic "e" by something else, for example "é". A text like: "Azərbaycan Respublikası, Qafqazda, böyük bir hissəsi cənub-qərbi Asiyaya, şimalda kiçik bir hissəsi ilə Avropaya daxil olan və Xəzər dənizinə sahili olan dövlət" would be "Azerbaycan Réspublikası, Qafqazda, böyük bir hissesi cenub-qerbi Asiyaya, şimalda kiçik bir hissesi ile Avropaya daxil olan ve Xezer denizine sahili olan dövlet". And the four presidents would be called respectivly Ayaz Mütellibov, Ebülfez Élçibey, Héyder Eliyév and İlham Eliyév ... But unfortunately we can't change it ourselves! Švitrigaila 11:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree on both counts. —Nightstallion (?) 11:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XV (May 2007)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter Issue XV (May 2007)
Project news In the contest department, Kevin Myers and Climie.ca were the monthly leaders, with ten points each. Kevin Myers is the overall leader, with twenty points. The subject-area contacts initiative is off to a good start, with several contacts having been named. Further exposure of this list is planned. {{Infobox Military Cemetery}} and {{Infobox Military Memorial}} have been merged into a single infobox for both types of articles.		Current proposals and discussions A discussion about military categories by nation has begun. A discussion about military personnel categories by nation is ongoing.
Articles of note New featured articles: 3rd Battalion 3rd Marines B-52 aircraft crash at Fairchild Air Force Base Pontiac's Rebellion Russian-Circassian War Shen Kuo Webley Revolver New A-Class articles: AHS Centaur Operation Lam Son 719 Ronald Niel Stuart Zveno project	Awards and honors Kevin Myers has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his outstanding work on early modern warfare in North America, and, in particular, the creation of four featured articles on the topic.
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This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 16:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

A template

I added the pluses and minuses. Notice them. ;)

Also, I have a problem. The Montenegrin parliament is a moving one, it does not have a stable number of Deputies. In 2002 it had 78, and in 2006 81 - so the pluses and minuses do not really emulate the gains and losses. Is there a solution? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PaxEquilibrium (talk • contribs)

I reflected the change in the template. —Nightstallion (?) 11:01, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

You can also see an interesting trickery there - 76 were supposed to be the number of Deputies, and 5 special seats for Albanian minority representatives (the Albanians are the only recognized national minority in Montenegro). Milo's DPS-SDP coalition won 39 (30 for DPS, 8 for SDP and 1 for HGI) seats, which is not parliamentary majority (81 total). He thus sent on to ensure 2 more seats to ensure majority.

1. In Montenegro parliamentary elections are repeated with a second circle in municipalities in which ethnic Albanians form majority. Only Albanian minority parties are allowed to register. He changed the Law to allow all parties to compete for the 5 Albanian seats. And he organized a massive campaign, showing how he and the DPS are the true protectors of the Albanian people and showed many ethnic Albanian members of DPS. The image propagated was as if the "...whole Albanian nation is joining DPS and following Milo's footsteps". As a result, his list won the largest number of votes and secured a single seat of the five Albanian in the parliament (and thus, 40 of 81), harming the very foundations of the law to protect the Albanian minority. Today, no DPS Deputy is an ethnic Albanian in the Parliament.

2. An Albanian wealthy/rich businessman from Ulcinj founded a political party known as "FORCA - New Democratic Power". He is a close business associate and personal friend of Milo Djukanovic. He was appealed enough to make enough Albanians vote for him and win one seat of the five Albanian in the Albanian-minority voting. Immediately after the election and very mysteriously, FORCA joined DPS... there was no joining, the seat reserved for Forca was just occupied by a DPS (ethnic Montenegrin, by the way) candidate. And thus, he got 41 (32 for DPS, 8 for SDP and 1 for HGI).

Quite impressive? Add a little flavor on top that one of two most probable possibilities regarding Radovan Karadzic's hiding place is Montenegro with Milo's protection, you get quite an interesting image of him.

BTW are you a member of any political party... or just a political analyst? --PaxEquilibrium 13:44, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

It's getting more and more unbelievable... No, I'm not a member of any political party, though I have been contemplating officially joining the The Greens – The Green Alternative. I'm wouldn't call myself a political analyst, though. —Nightstallion (?) 11:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

---

Milo Djukanovic and Svetozar Marovic have just received the International Humanitarian League's Award!

Svetozar Marovic was a writer and father of the concept "War for Peace" which formed FRY's policies towards the breakaway Yugoslav republics of Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia. It based itself on "...we fight war to ensure peace.." and limited itself to detailed plans of a swift military invasion of Croatia and creation of a Yugoslav state with Republika Srpska, the Republic of Serbian Krajina and Dubrovnik (which is to be conquered by Montenegrin forces), the act which cynically became known across the globe as "Greater Serbia".

I really do not understand how could this be... the Muslims/Bosniaks of Sandzak are already sending massive protests and boycotting Milo's regime in protest (they still remorse the atrocities from the 1990s)... --PaxEquilibrium 15:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Egyptian Shura Council election, 2007

Found out about this today - thought you might want to know! Number 57 13:45, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I had read something about this earlier today, but had forgotten about it. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 13:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

SRS

Do you know the Serbian Radical Party is seriously going for abolishing the existence of Vojvodina? --PaxEquilibrium 00:01, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Huh? Isn't that kind of their stronghold? How would they do that? And why? —Nightstallion (?) 13:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly why they are expanding their campaign there. In order to seize control over Vojvodina so that they can control and diminish its autonomy (they're aside from SPS the "centralists", DSS has also showed some hidden sympathies for this). Contrary to the "autonomists" (League of Social Democrats of Vojvodina) that desire a practical "state within state" are in complete contrast to them, who desire abolition of Vojvodina.

However, only the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia can abolish old and create new autonomous entities, and its decision is ultimate. I hardly think the SRS will receive parliamentary majority for Vojvodina's abolition... they must count on both SPS and DSS's help for that. After all, abolition of Vojvodina is one of their main political pursuits.

Why do you thing it's their "stronghold"? --PaxEquilibrium 16:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I had heard they were quite strong there, is that untrue? (after having seen the results from 2004) Mh, doesn't seem to be more or less than in the rest of Serbia, being slightly stronger than the Democrats with the Democrats of Serbia very far in the back... —Nightstallion (?) 16:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

With the Democrats receiving 37 seats in 2004, and the Serb Radicals only 35, I don't see at all how're they any stronger (of a total 120; i.e. 60~60). Also, the unconventional term for both DSS and NS is now "populists", so if you're going to use informal (like you said "Democrats of Serbia"), just say "populists". ;) --PaxEquilibrium 18:00, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Politics_of_Vojvodina#Legislative_power states 36 to 35... If that's wrong, all the better. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 18:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

No, they're not wrong - two members of DS defected and SRS "bought" (literally, but not through money, through nationalism) one over time. However since the Constitution of Serbia proclaimed that now MPs are ownership of the party, taking that away from the hands of the actual Deputies, that can no longer occur. ;) (of course if a party merges into one, like recently GSS into LDP, that changes - but should say, suddenly a part of LDP secede and form a GSS again, it has absolutely no rights to seats within the parliament). --PaxEquilibrium 18:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XIII - June 2007

Archives  |  Tip Line  |  Editors The Novels WikiProject Newsletter Issue XIII - June 2007
Project news This newsletter was unfortunately delayed till now - my apologes for that - I needed to respond to a whole host of image challenges that appears on my personal talk pages. So, if you have uploaded non-free book covers that are being used under fair use terms, please add your own "Fair Use Rationale" to the images. Member news The project has currently 236 members, 7 joined & 0 leavers since the last newsletter at the start of May 2007 Other news The Brothers Karamazov (nom.) was demoted from Featured Article status for concerns over sources, structure, and coverage/focus. The 2007 Wikipedia Selection for schools, targeted around the UK National Curriculum, included 39 novels. Volunteers at Wikipedia had suggested articles considered valuable and relevant for inclusion. See here and the WP Signpost news. Novel related news Shantaram to marry Princess Gregory David Roberts, author of Shantaram, a reformed Australian convicted armed robber has just announced his engagement to Princess Francoise Sturdza of Switzerland, who he plans to marry soon. His life has changed dramatically for the best after the release of his first novel four years ago, which depicted his life in India after escaping from prison. A movie based on his novel is planned for production later this year, starring Johnny Depp in the lead role. [11] Shannara series purchased by Warner Bros The film rights to The Shannara Series by Terry Brooks have been picked up by Warner Bros. They plan to first develop The Elfstones of Shannara, the second book in the series as the opening movie and writers are now being sought for the adaptation. The first book The Sword of Shannara, was published in 1977 and was the first fantasy book to reach, and then top, the New York Times Best Seller list. [12] both items courtesy of Boylo (talk · contribs) Special: Year in review, first Newsletter in June 2006 The Newsletter was started on 14 June 2006 by Kevinalewis. Issue I in June 2006 informed us that the project had 88 members with 30 of them having joined after 1 May 2006. A year later the project had 236 members. The Collaboration of the Month was not yet running in 2006. New articles by 23skidoo on the Simon Templar as The Saint novels were mentioned in project news. Current debates The {{Infobox_Book}} was protected so only administrators can edit it and there is a discussion going on over the release field in the template as the {{Infobox short story}} has already had this changed. Spoiler warnings debate affects also novel articles.	From the Members Welcome to the thirteenth issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do. We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask. Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk), Initiating Editor Collaboration of the Month This month's Collaboration has been selected by popular vote and is A Series of Unfortunate Events. Newsletter challenge Last month's Work: A Story of Experience challenge was met by our new member Baby ifritah (talk · contribs) with a stub. The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Pity is Not Enough by Josephine Herbst.
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This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 15:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

MNE

SDP CG accepts immediate elections after the Constitution's proclamation! Milo is furious asking Ranko Krivokapić to rethink and alluding to treachery. --PaxEquilibrium 18:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, serves him right. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 19:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Génération Écologie

What do you think about moving Génération Écologie to Ecology Generation? I noticed that this is the only Freanch political party with an article titled in French instead of in English. --Checco 18:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I propose you also to move back Rally for France and European Independence to Rally for France, which is actually the current name of the party (sources: France politique, Parties and Elections in Europe, see also French Wikipedia, which is more updated). --Checco 18:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Done and done. —Nightstallion (?) 19:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! --Checco 19:23, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

And to rename Forza Italia into Forward Italy! ? Švitrigaila 20:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Since it's always called Forza in English, I'd say no. Nightstallion 21:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

It was a bit ironic. I don't approve the renaming of Génération Écologie into Ecology Generation. Génération Écologie was named after the slogan used by President François Mitterrand for his 1988 re-election: "Génération Mitterrand". "Génération Écologie" sounds to me like a slogan (like "Forza Italia"), not like a "grammatically constructed name", if you see what I mean... I would have kept Génération Écologie untranslated. Švitrigaila 12:40, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, what is the party usually called in English? I somehow doubt that the case is comparable, as "Forza" is a well-known Italian football chant, whereas "Génération Mitterand" is virtually unknown outside of France... Nightstallion 12:41, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm even not sure this party is known by a name or another outside France. It's now such a small party that nearly no-one has ever heard about it in France since the raising of The Greens. Švitrigaila 12:45, 15 June 2007 (UTC)