User talk:NewzealanderA

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Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 01:08, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation

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Wilbysuffolk Talk to me 19:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In response to your feedback

You should suggest that they visit my page for new users here which contains a section for citing sources.

SwisterTwister talk 06:42, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

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Your submission at Articles for creation

Classical acting, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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newzealander 22:17, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Misha Bryan

Hi NewzealanderA, though you probably weren't aware of it, Misha Bryan had been recently deleted following an AfD discussion. Because of this I've nominated it for speedy deletion. The UK X-Factor contestants were recently released from their contracts to the programme and several people are trying to create articles about them, when they are not yet successful in their own right. Sionk (talk) 16:30, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Contested deletion of Misha Bryan

(The following was copied from the deleted page Talk:Misha Bryan. Please use the proper venue for these discussions; you are welcome to re-open another review at WP:DRV if you feel the prior decision missed some key points. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC))[reply]

This page should not be speedily deleted because... (your reason here) --newzealander 16:50, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

I do not understand why this article should be deleted. The argument being used right now is that Misha Bryan is not successful enough in her own right outside of the X Factor. But if you look at the Wikipedia:Notability guidelines, I would argue that she does sufficiently meet the guidelines for notability and should be granted her own page.

She has reliable third party sources on her (albeit, there is some cleanup to be done on the bare URL's)
She has significant coverage — Preceding unsigned comment added by NewzealanderA (talk • contribs) 16:50, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When the article was last deleted there was also a Deletion Review (closed yesterday) which endorsed the decision. Sionk (talk) 22:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this link Sionk. But if I go to Wikipedia:Notability (music)#Criteria for musicians and ensembles the first reason for notability is "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself." Although I don't have the deleted page now to reference, if I go to List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 8) there are multiple references that are reliable sources. Newspapers in London like the Metro and Daily Mail, the website digitalspy.com, yahoo.com, musiceyz.co.uk (a credible review of her mixtape, which would mean she is noteworthy outside of X Factor). Now, on that same page there are a bunch of references to Misha B's twitter announcements, which would be uncredible. And, if there were personal trivia items that would not be considered encyclopedic on the deleted page and other things to be cleaned up and deleted off the page, then that's a whole other matter. But, if I go simply off of Wikipedia's own guidelines for musician notability, there appears to be enough there to warrant her own page. Also, if you compare Misha Bryan to many of the finalists on this last season of American Idol, then she qualifies just as much as they do for her own page. Example: Heejun_Han ------ NewzealanderA (talk) 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Because this article was recently deleted by community consensus, and the deletion decision was affirmed in a deletion review, an attempt to recreate it in article space without adequate sourcing will result in it being deleted again. I suggest you create this article as User:NewZealanderA/Misha Bryan in your own user space and improve it to the point where you are 100% certain it meets WP:MUSIC and addresses all concerns at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Misha Bryan (singer). At that point it might be advisable to contact one of the admins who deleted the article to review the work and possibly restore it to main article space.

If you want, I can restore the deleted article to your user space for you to work on. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:53, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That would be great NewzealanderA (talk) 03:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Article restored to User:NewZealanderA/Misha Bryan. ~Amatulić (talk) 03:52, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This conversation is continued at User_talk:NewzealanderA/Misha_B and close to a resolution. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 17:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

X Factor

Thank you for your advice, I think I understand, will be able to edit over weekend. Zoeblackmore (talk) 5.45, 06 July 2012 (GMT)

You can also compare the guidelines link I gave with how others have done referencing when you go into the edit page. This can also help it to be more clear. You'll probably also start to see other opportunities to improve the referencing of others, as not everyone is up to speed on the ideal way of referencing. Thanks for your time.-- NewzealanderA (talk) 17:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to use the toolserver, to get started, before I improve the links further...it picks up the links but my internet is too slow my end to auto apply them...I will do it manually tomorrow if need be...how urgent is over the weekend ok. Thank you for your help :)^[1] Zoeblackmore (talk) 18.40, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

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Misha B's own page

I am currently putting together Misha's own page in my sandbox using bits from here and her deleted own page, plus edits.Zoeblackmore (talk) 17:34, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's no need. There's already a page getting ready to submit to the article space here - User:NewzealanderA/Misha_B. Creating another page will only complicate matters and will not accomplish getting her own page into the space any sooner. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 17:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

May I add to it. (but I dont think I need add any more on the accusations, its already covered on the main x factor 8 site)Zoeblackmore (talk) 20:39, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you could wait. Let me get the article accepted (some time after 15 July 2012), and then anyone can continue to add verifiable info to it. I am only focused on notability right now, specifically citing the release of her single and any chart information, because this has been the consensus in terms of getting key users to "ok" her own article. But, thank you for asking. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 22:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ok cool ...I have put x factor performances in table form in my sand box if its needed. I will play in the sand there until the right timeZoeblackmore (talk) 23:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Did a major edit on Misha's section on the List pageZoebuggie 17:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs)

It would seem to me that in the end the List_of_The_X_Factor_finalists_(UK_series_8)#Misha_B would contain only X Factor-centric info with a "See more info at _______" link to the standalone article. So maybe that can also be addressed once this solo article for Misha B gets into the public space (mostly likely some time next week). That way we wouldn't have so much duplicate info beyond the X Factor at List_of_The_X_Factor_finalists_(UK_series_8)#Misha_B. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 19:06, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Impending article

Re: the article in your sandbox - unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) most of Wikipedia is freely editable by other users. There have been a number of editors who have been involved in attempts to create a standalone page for Misha B and I expect they all will want a hand in creating the impending article. I completely agree with you that any information in a biographical article should be verifiable using reliable sources, so I will be fully supportive of any removal of poorly sourced data. This is the way Wikipedia works, for good or ill, and your message left on the other user's Talk page seems to be a sensible way of dealing with the problem. At the end of the day, editors that consistently break the rules of Wikipedia eventually get banned, but let's hope it doesn't come to that... this is all just a taste of what might happen after Misha's single is released and her article goes 'live', argh! All the best. Sionk (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your thoughts - thank you. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 04:14, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I did direct her to your page and couple of the detailed talk pages...in order to avoid duplication, I did expect her to talk to you first and not start messing with your page. Apologies. (um I think I have messed up my signiture ->)Zoeblackmore 02:16, 14 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs)

Thank you for adding your two cents to her talk page. It's frustrating. You could not have known she would ignore all of us, so it's not your fault. I'll keep tabs on it and fix everything I can so that it will be ready to be accepted next week. Hopefully she will cooperate. Thanks. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 02:47, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bear in mind also that 'Jenifer27' is already submitting Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Misha B at AfC. 'Jenifer27' seems to have returned to editing (and resubmitting) the AfC article after being discouraged from editing your sandbox version. Sionk (talk) 12:35, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that 'Jenifer27' has been blocked (other vandalism). Regards the article for submission itself, the are a few bits of good solid verifiable non x factor evidence on the list page that I believe increases her scores for being regarded as independently notable, that are not on your page yet.

Controversial question, if the bully accusations were false (based on all the evidence they were) do we need to keep raising it, especially since its covered in depth elsewhere? (my signature thing is broken, sorry dont know how to fix it)Zoeblackmore 11:06, 15 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs) little re-edit Zoebuggie talk 12:21, 15 July 2012 (UTC) Zoebuggie talk 12:24, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see that anemoneprojectors on the Talk:Misha_B agrees with me leaving out the allegations on her own page. Zoebuggie talk 14:07, 15 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs) [reply]

These are good points. It is a discussion to see what to delete and what summary to leave on her own page regarding X Factor. Let me get the article into the public space in the next couple of days once coverage comes out about her single and any initial charting. Then, you can work on your suggested edits of her X Factor experience. There needs to be something there since she is just "born" out of X Factor, but certainly the bulk of the info will be on the X Factor page.-- NewzealanderA (talk) 14:54, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'Jenifer27' was a sockpuppet of a previously banned user. I notice 'she' added an Articles for Creation review request to User:NewzealanderA/Misha B. If the article isn't ready yet for review, it would be best to remove the review request. I think the correct thing to do, when the article is ready, is to click the 'Submit the page!' link at the top, which will also remove the 'This is not a Wikipedia article' message. Sionk (talk) 12:35, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see that at the bottom now. Thanks. I've removed the article for creation request.-- NewzealanderA (talk) 14:54, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Look's like it's going to chart, she is currently at no 12 in the iTunes download chart Zoebuggie (talk) 21:23, 15 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs) [reply]

Route 1

I see someone has taken the 'Route 1' approach and created an article in the main space on (what was) the Misha Bryan redirect. It looks broadly similar, though not as succinct as 'yours'. Sionk (talk) 16:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Frustrating. But I'm going to let this go. The continued challenges for this artist's article will be verifiable info, encyclopedic content, and what constitutes info on her page versus what is on the X Factor Season 8 page.-- NewzealanderA (talk) 17:06, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Would you suggest a delete of this page or a merger?-- NewzealanderA (talk) 17:11, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, after all this (generally) constructive dialogue about Misha B's notability, I'd hope the new article will remain in some form or another. I guess you could retain your sandbox article for reference, waiting to see how things pan out. Probably worth removing the 'AfC review' request. If you think yuo no longer need the page you can request it is speedily deleted, reason G7. Sionk (talk) 17:48, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the article adding stuff from yourself NewzealanderA and myself, adding extra information to help give evidence of independant verifiable notability, but also simplified the x factor stuff as it is well covered in two other places already. Due to the ammount of cyber abuse Misha gets on her videos this new page if it is not removed will need to be protected against vandalism as are many artists, like Cher Lloyd, Beyonce etc on Wikipedia...Zoebuggie☺whispers 18:32, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some baklava for you!

For all the hard work you put into getting a Misha B page up ...Zoebuggie☺whispers 19:14, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Misha B again

Hi...You probably want nothing to do with the page but if you are still interested...a NPOV has been pinned to the Misha B page. I believe its unfair as though I am a fan, I have honestly tried to be neutral. Apart from a brief period a few years ago I am new to Wikipedia and I am learning as I go. Your comments would be appreciated.. ...Zoebuggie☺whispers 22:58, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to get involved. Best of luck.-- NewzealanderA (talk) 02:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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^ http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/webreflinks.py?page=List_of_The_X_Factor_finalists_%28UK_series_8%29&citeweb=checked

[1] ttp://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/webreflinks.py?page=List_of_The_X_Factor_finalists_%28UK_series_8%29&citeweb=checked

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