User talk:Newblackwhite
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Copperfield
[edit]For an article on a living person to include something like this would need really good sourcing, and probably a talkpage consensus as well. Let me know if you need any help with this. --John (talk) 20:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
If you don't like the source I used, you can select a better one here, amongst the 103,000 web pages, or put a "citation needed" to let someone else do the job, but we cannot censor a well-known fact that people talks about since 2006. --Newblackwhite (talk) 20:43, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- On the contrary, the onus is on you to convince folks that this info is worth including. Sorry. --John (talk) 20:46, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- Well, we are a collaborative project, so I think it's everyone's interest to have as much useful information as possible. I don't understand why don't you help me in finding a good source, or wait for somone else to do it. In many cases, I see sentences remain with a "citation needed" for years before being removed, but in this case, it had been removed in few minutes with a quick "source not good enough, and the onus is on you". Does Wikipedia becomes better after we remove informations?
- And, by the way, I don't understand your point. Are you claiming that the info ir false, or that the info is true but not relevant? --Newblackwhite (talk) 20:57, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- We are indeed a collaborative project and one of our joint principles is not to include dubious information about living people. This policy, which is one of our most important ones, is at WP:BLP and it means that in cases of doubt we default to not including the information. In this situation, to have the information included you would have to attract a consensus at Talk:David Copperfield (illusionist) that it should be included. The best way for you to do this would be to start a new section there and describe how having this would benefit the article. You should include several very good sources that you have personally reviewed. --John (talk) 21:04, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Sure, one of our principles is not to include dubious information. That's why I didn't say he found the Fountain of Youth, but only that he claimed to have found it, and I used a source to prove it. If you think the source is not good enough, shouldn't the burden of proof be on you? Shouldn't be you the one who has to explain in the talk page why the source is unreliable? We are the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, after all, and we should discuss before removing sourced information. And I still don't understand if you claim that the info is fake or true but irrilevant. --Newblackwhite (talk) 21:24, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello! Thank you for not taking my response/criticism harshly. I deleted my comment regarding the Vanishing Statue of Liberty illusion by Copperfield because, after some contemplation, I was honest with myself and my motives for dropping Poundstone's reveal in the article were less noble than I tried to make it sound. Being an illusionist is a hobby for me, but it is not my career. It's difficult to make money performing for most of us, and don't think for a minute that there isn't a substantial amount of jealousy involved when we criticize or eye roll at the mention of Copperfield. I mean, most of us barely afford to pay our rent and Copperfield owns a chain of islands! Nonetheless, Copperfield catches a lot of hell that he mostly does not deserve. He'll be remembered as one of the greats, and he has earned it. He isn't better than Ricky Jay (probably the greatest living illusionist), Lance Burton, and a few others, but he doesn't deserve anyone's jealous ire. Criticisms of Criss Angel, on the other hand, aren't jealousy, but I'll be nice and shut up now! :) Take care!RushRhees (talk) 04:43, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
BLP warning
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Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living persons. Thank you.--John (talk) 22:06, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Ehi, I used TWO sources instead of one, what was the problem this time? I think they are good sources but you seem to think otherwise, can you please tell me what's wrong with these sources and why do you think the information was "poorly referenced"? And why do you call the information "controversial"? The page Fountain of Youth talks about Copperfield (it wasn't me) and none objected. I've read plenty of articles on the subject in the last 30 minutes, including notorious newspaper from my country (Italy), but I'm afraid even with a thousand sources you will delete the paragraph. Can you tell me what kind of source should we use? Thanks.--Newblackwhite (talk) 22:20, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
So, after I mentioned the Fountain of Youth article, you deleted Copperfield references even there saying "not here" (so, where?), but you didn't answer my question here. I just don't understand. As far as I know, we should put verified and interesting fact on Wikipedia. The fountain of youth thing is interesting, no doubt. And is even verified, since there are plenty of sources. For example, here the news is mentioned in la Repubblica, the second largest circulation newspaper in Italy. Is Repubblica a poor source? If you don't like Italian sources on a English Wiki, you can select another source in English here, but removing info doesn't help us IMHO. --Newblackwhite (talk) 22:59, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- One of our principles is not to include dubious information about living people. This policy, which is one of our most important ones, is at WP:BLP and it means that in cases of doubt we default to not including the information. In this situation, to have the information included you would have to attract a consensus at Talk:David Copperfield (illusionist) that it should be included. The best way for you to do this would be to start a new section there and describe how having this would benefit the article. You should include several very good sources that you have personally reviewed. English sources are better. Please now read some of the links I have sent you before making any other additions or asking any more questions. --John (talk) 06:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
You said "Please now read some of the links I have sent you before making any other additions or asking any more questions". Of course I've already read them tens of times, but just in case I decided to read the English version of these three pages now to see if they were different from the one I knew, and to "gain" the right to reply again. I still think the same: my source were reliable. How could they not be? I mean, one of them was a verbatim interview with Mr. Copperfield himself, another one was about the island, another one was La Repubblica, a published source "with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" (I know English sources are better here, but foreign ones are not forbidden; the important thing was to prove that the news deserved a mention in the article, we can change it with another English source later). You keep saying "doubious information", "in cases of doubt", but I haven't yet see a word as to WHY do you think the information is doubious. Who can decide alone that a fact with several sources is doubious? I'm going to put this on the talk page so that this won't go on forever, but I don't think Wikipedia will gain from disputes like this. --Newblackwhite (talk) 19:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Copyvio
[edit]The text you included here is a copy of copyrighted material from here. Please suggest a brief summary in talk and we can see if we can compromise. Please do not continue to edit war dubious or copyright material into the article pending such a compromise being reached. If you do choose to continue I will have to raise your conduct for review by an uninvolved admin. --John (talk) 22:00, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
- I've read this after posting my last post on the talk page, so I will only talk about copyright here. And I doubt to have violated any copyright, since I rephrased everything except a small quote in quotation marks, which is fair use. I'm used to rephrase things to avoid copyright violation. --Newblackwhite (talk) 22:08, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
- No you didn't. --John (talk) 22:11, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Comparison
[edit]You wrote: He also aked astronauts what was the most beautiful spot, the most beautiful water, and they all agreed this specific spot in the Atlantic Ocean, and they all agreed it was Musha Cay.
The source has: Astronauts were asked from above what was the most beautiful spot, the most beautiful water, and they all agreed this specific spot in the Atlantic Ocean, the Bahamas.
Come on! --John (talk) 22:14, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Actually, the source I used, was this (the text is probably identical between those two sources). The words you used in the comparison were differents, which means I DID rephrased the source, but of course I had to keep what astronauts were asked exactly (since it was a very specific question) and the fact they all agreed it was Copperfield's island.
Compare this:
I wrote: According to Copperfield, he found it by connecting lines between "magical places" on the Earth, and noticing that those four lines intersect at Musha Cay.
The source wrote: I found it by connecting lines between magical places on the Earth, and those four lines intersect at a specific spot in the ocean. And it so happens that is where my islands are.
You can say it was a bad rephrasing, but you can't deny I did the effort of a good faith rephrasing, especially considering how hard is for me to write in English. --Newblackwhite (talk) 22:27, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
- This degree of close paraphrasing is not acceptable in English Wikipedia. Please do not repeat it. Again, it is better if you post your suggestions to talk and wait for more experienced editors to implement your suggestions if they wish. As you have said you find it difficult to write in English, this is all the more important. --John (talk) 22:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
I try to avoid close paraphrasing when I can, since I feel copying destroys my creativity, but in this case I don't see a possible way to report the news without copying the keywords ("connecting lines between magical places on the Earth" or the things astronauts were asked). I'm getting used to write in English thank to the internet and I'm becoming faster, the only problem is that sometimes I have to search a word in an online dictionary or a sentence seems strange to me. --Newblackwhite (talk) 22:42, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
The Three Caballeros
[edit]Hi. I noticed that you added Italian as one of the languages used in the 1944 Disney film The Three Caballeros. Since the film focuses exclusively on Latin America, it seems unlikely to me that Italian would have been used in the film and I certainly can't remember anyone in the film speaking Italian. Could you explain to me why you added this information? Thanks. --Jpcase (talk) 01:53, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Saludos Amigos
[edit]I saw those credits in the other language Wikipedias and thought I would get that down here. --Smartie2thaMaxXx (talk) 00:06, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- For Donald I was referring to the Brazilian and the European versions, since I saw that he voiced both. --Smartie2thaMaxXx (talk) 00:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
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Speedy deletion declined: Gary Leach
[edit]Hello Newblackwhite. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Gary Leach, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Seems a reasonable redirect considering the non-standard spelling. When Gary has an article, just puta hatnote on to Garry. Thank you. GedUK 16:57, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
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