User talk:Metta79

Archives (Index)

This page is archived by ClueBot III.

Malabar coast influence on Ancient Jaffna

Hello, I'm Drusekoana and contacting you to find out more about the reasons behind your latest modification to the "Sri Lankan Tamils" article.

The following are extracts from sources already mentioned in the article, indicating an ancient ancestral influence in Jaffna linked to the Malabar coastline.

— Historical records indicate that the Malabar Coast on the western side of the subcontinent was the source of major Tamil migration to the island until abouth the thirteenth century [...] the impact of the early Malabar migration, their long period of residence in Sri Lanka, and their interaction with the Sinhalese people helped them to become distinct from the Tamils of Tamil Nadu. —

Manogaran, Chelvadurai (1987). Ethnic Conflict and Reconciliation in Sri Lanka. University of Hawaii Press. p. 3. ISBN 9780824811167.

— As Kearney puts it, the influence of the early Malabar migrations, as well as long residence in Ceylon and interaction with the Sinhalese, left the Ceylon Tamils as a unique group of Tamil-speaking people, differentiated in customs, speech, and social organization from the Tamils of South India. —

Pfaffenberger, Bryan (1977). Pilgrimage and Traditional Authority in Tamil Sri Lanka. University of California, Berkeley. p. 15.

Drusekoana (talk) 21:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, Manogaran is not a historian, nor is Kearney. Kerala migrations were large, and are a large part of Sri Lankan Tamil ancestry. However, to say it was the majority is not supported by the references or the evidence we have at present. Your references do not say what you had initially written.

I have a lot of issues with the current paragraph, and I will dissect it below:

The dialect used in Jaffna is the oldest and closest to old Tamil.

No evidence of this, there is no such thing as an oldest language. It is however perhaps the most conservative of all Tamil dialects. But some may argue Batticaloa Tamil is, as it's the closest to the literary form. All that can be said is that the Sri Lankan Tamil dialects as a whole are the most conservative (and we have references for this, see: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/ancient-languages-of-asia-and-the-americas/old-tamil/A57081102311C948E3159E7B43F872E0)

The long physical isolation of the Tamils of Jaffna has enabled their dialect to preserve ancient features of old Tamil that predate Tolkappiyam, the grammatical treatise on Tamil dated from 3rd century BCE to 10th century CE.

I know there are references saying this, but this is also misleading. The isolation is no more than 800 years. It is the 13th century when there were mass migration of Tamil speakers from Tamil Nadu and Kerala to the northeast of Sri Lanka, and this when the divergence took place.

Also, a major component of the settlers were from the ancient Malabar Coast till the 13th century, which may have contributed to the distinctiveness and preservation of the dialect.Their ordinary speech is closely related to classical Tamil.

The migrations were not 'ancient' nor predominantly preceding the 13th century. They were medieval and they were predominantly from the 13th century onwards. In 1215 for example. there was a large invasion of Kerala mercenaries who settled on the island. And in the Dutch period during the Travancore-Jaffna tobacco trade there was further Kerala migrations.

Your claim that the Kerala settlers contributed to the "preservation of the dialect" is not supported by the references and is original research.

Finally, saying that their "original speech is closely related to classical Tamil" is not supported by the references. Whose original speech are you talking about? The Kerala migrants (medieval ones) or the current Jaffna Tamils? There is a big difference between modern Sri Lankan Tamil and classical Tamil. Classical Tamil is Old Tamil, Sri Lankan Tamil is based on middle Tamil.

The closest Tamil Nadu Tamil variant to Jaffna Tamil is literary Tamil, used in formal speeches and news reading.

Literary Tamil is not merely a Tamil Nadu variant. It the same whether in Sri Lanka or Tamil Nadu, and is based on the 13th century written standard. Metta79 (talk) 17:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, apologies for my late reply.

Yes, I totally agree with you. In some parts, the article seems very biased towards the dominant Jaffna community doxa. In particular, the long-established belief that the Jaffna dialect is the “purest” and “most authentic” dialect of the Tamil language. And the dating problem surrounding the migration of some of the Sri Lankan Tamils' ancestors is a rather sensitive subject on Wikipedia (as elsewhere), and is surely linked to this sensitivity.

Nevertheless, in view of the article's ranking as a well-constructed article, and has been so for years, I didn't dare question it too much. I had noticed a strong inconsistency in the paragraphs where I intervened, between the sources and what was said about them on the article, hence my intervention limited to these.

Drusekoana (talk) 08:20, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

And I did not personally assert this

" Your claim that the Kerala settlers contributed to the "preservation of the dialect" is not supported by the references and is original research. "

I'm not making any assertions of my own, and I'm relying solely on the statements and sources already mentioned on the article and on the concerned paragraphs.

For so many years, it has been the contributions and confirmations of many others who have perpetuated the idea that Jaffna's Tamil speakers speak a “pure” dialect of Tamil possibly because their origins are largely from Coromandel (a self-serving mention, which prominence isn't mentioned in the quoted sources ; the reason of my contribution) and Malabar, insinuating in the process a greater “ethnic authenticity” compared to other Sri Lankan Tamil-speaking communities.

— Also, a large component of the settlers were from the Coromandel Coast and Malabar Coast which may have helped with the preservation of the dialect. —

As I said in my previous comment, the article contains sometimes some questionable passages, which rather reflect a “typically communitarian jaffnese perception” of the Sri Lankan Tamil community. Which can sometimes be far from the current academic consensus.

Sincerely

Drusekoana (talk) 18:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Removed some content of old sources

i have removed some content citing old sources. Please dont revert the edit. 103.158.145.130 (talk) 13:37, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

malayalam wikipedia page

malayalam wikipedia page has been hijacked by tamil nationalists like you. i cannot even make a proper edit to it. Modern linguists says that malayalam originated from proto-tamil-malayalam. And there is so many sources saying the same. I am going to make certain edits with proper sources. Please dont change it. Jino john1996 (talk) 06:15, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

You should avoid personal attacks. Everything in the current iteration of the page is supported by the mainstream of sources. Discuss in the talk page first. Metta79 (talk) 09:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Untitled

This one seems like a sock of this. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

If you have evidence, it should be reported. Metta79 (talk) 20:23, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)