User talk:Marlarkey/Archives/2022/August

Speedy deletion nomination of Laureate Academy

Hello, Marlarkey,

Welcome to Wikipedia! I edit here too, under the username Govvy, and I thank you for your contributions.

I wanted to let you know, however, that I have tagged an article that you started, Laureate Academy, for deletion, because it is a very short article that doesn't provide readers with enough context to determine who or what the subject is.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top. If the page is already deleted by the time you come across this message and you wish to retrieve the deleted material, please contact the deleting administrator.

For any further query, please leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Govvy}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ . Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Govvy (talk) 08:46, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi! I don't think your move of that page to Cavendish School, Hemel Hempstead, was correct, but if it was then the page should be left as a redirect; I've tagged it as being (a) the result of a move and (b) having "possibilities" – i.e., having the potential to be changed into an article. Please don't mess around with it any more. Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:52, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and please note that the place is called Hemel Hempstead, not Hemel Hemsptead! Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:00, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I have now turned Laureate Academy into an article, using the information about Laureate that had been put into the Cavendish article, which had overwritten Cavendish information. So there are now two articles - one on the Cavendish School which existed between 1962 and 2018, and one on Laureate Academy, which is the new school which opened on the same site in 2018. Marlarkey (talk) 10:10, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

@Govvy: you were a bit quick off the mark - I was trying to sort out a mess left by other contributors who have wiped out a legitimate historical article. At least the source of page vandalism has now been corrected. FYI the issue relates to the fact that Cavendish School, Hemel Hempstead was a school that existed for 46 years before closing and reopening as a different school Laureate Academy. Instead of reflecting the closure of Cavendish and creating a new page for Laureate (which would maintain the historical article about Cavendish) contributors instead overwrote that Cavendish page with information about Laureate, thus obliterating Cavendish from Wikipedia. They set up a redirect so a search for Cavendish School would redirect to Laureate and nobody would be able to find the original page about Cavendish. I've reverted the Cavendish page and added a reference to having closed in 2018 and change the tense in the article to the past tense. I was also trying to create a stub page for whoever wants to edit in information about new school, Laureate. Hopefully its better now, a Cavendish School article and a Laureate Academy article, both referring to each other Marlarkey (talk) 09:31, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi, User:Marlarkey, I chanced upon the Laureate Academy article during New Page Patrol work, and I sent a message to your Talk page (see below). I have edited other UK school articles (example: The Halley Academy) where the institution has gone through similar changes/takeovers. I feel the best approach would be to merge Laureate Academy with the Cavendish School article, then Move (rename) it to Laureate Academy (having speedily deleted the current LA article). Clearly structuring the merged article's content to show the progression from the old Cavendish school to the new Laureate Academy would also retain the Cavendish historical content. I have proposed that merger on the relevant pages. Paul W (talk) 10:47, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm more concerned about the historic Cavendish content having been lost as a result of contributors overwriting it with Laureate Academy info (I'll declare an interest, I was a student of Cavendish). So historical information about its ofsted reports, it dates, its head teachers, alumni, uniform, houses, etc, aspects of the its educational ethos, etc should be retained - and previous contributors simply wiped out Cavendish. I searched wikipedia for Cavendish School and got directed to a page about Laureate Academy which didn't contain any of the info I was looking up because it had been written out of history.

FYI in the case of Laureate, that school wasn't a simply evolution from Cavendish, it was a distinct break - in school governance, leadership, uniform, ethos, etc. While what you suggest may have been done viz other schools, it isn't the approach used in relation to companies for instance.

I feel it would be difficult to merge the information in such a way as to retain the historic content relating to Cavendish and reflect the current content relating to Laureate. A simple example would be the link to Ofsted reports for the school. There cannot be a link to both the current and past Ofsted reports because they are for different schools.

Frankly I don't want to spend time on Laureate Academy's content...I just want the Cavendish historic content preserved for people to continue enhancing it. Marlarkey (talk) 11:02, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

We are clearly in agreement about retaining the Cavendish content. As The Halley Academy article shows, historical content created by previous contributors can be retained, even enhanced. This was also a school where its governance, leadership, uniform and ethos suffered a distinct break, but there was no discontinuity with respect to location, teaching staff or pupils education (companies are different types of organisations, but there are examples of UK companies that have undergone mergers or takeovers but the relevant Wikipedia articles have retained their past histories etc - see Tilbury Douglas and Taylor Woodrow Construction, for example). I think relevant links to past Ofsted reports might be retained through adaptation of the infobox or at least via use of citations or notes - a weblink to the historic reports, for example. Paul W (talk) 11:35, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

The key issue is that the Cavendish School had a notable history and reputation for nearly 50 years. Its status is significant. Laureate Academy is not notable and has had nothing of note recorded since it was founded in 2018. It hasn't even had an ofsted inspection yet. The Cavendish content stands in its own right as notable historic information, I'm not even sure that any Laureate information is of note. The F1 example *IS* pertinent... take Alpine F1 Team, its infobox contains a "previous name" link to Renault F1 Team and there is reference to Lotus F1 Team and Benneton Formula and Toleman Motorsport... each change in team had a change of ownership and name, but the site location and staff remained the same. That would be a far better way to link the information each incarnation of an entity. Similarly Rover Group formerly British Leyland etc. It seems to me that it is the school sector that is out of kilter with common practice Marlarkey (talk) 12:31, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Cavendish School Hemel Hemsptead

If this was the first article that you created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Cavendish School Hemel Hemsptead. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Cavendish School, Hemel Hempstead. Because of the duplication, your article has been speedily deleted. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Cavendish School, Hemel Hempstead. If you have new information to add, you might want to discuss it at the article's talk page.

Please do not recreate the material without addressing these concerns, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If you think the article you created should have remained separate, or you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:56, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Ways to improve Laureate Academy

Hello, Marlarkey,

Thank you for creating Laureate Academy.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Thanks for creating the article. However, I am not sure that the new school justifies an independent article - it may be better to merge the content into Cavendish School, then for that article to be moved to Laureate Academy. This is a common approach for other UK school articles - see, for example, The Halley Academy.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Paul W}}. Remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Paul W (talk) 10:19, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

@Paul W: Well I'm not sure Laureate Academy warrants its own article as there is nothing of note about it. I'm not really interested in Laureate Academy, someone who is can do that. I just want the article about Cavendish preserved, which is notable. Marlarkey (talk) 11:04, 22 August 2022 (UTC)