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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4Archive 5

Patras's population

Hello Markussep, I appreciate your contribution to wikipedia articles on european regions. You are doing a great job. I have an objection though; you edited the population of Patras from 171,616, according to the 2001 nationwide census, to 163,446. To the best of my knowledge and believe, and according to the reference only the first is the accurate figure. In fact even this seemingly larger figure refers only to inhabitants of Patras's municipality that where recorded on the day of the census. It would be helpful if we could provide an estimation of the population of the Functional Urban Region of Patras, or the urban system. As for the area and population density, do you have any credible source? Regards, Donnerstag 00:59, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Donnerstag! My source is the 2001 census. As you see in the table, there are two columns for 2001: Μόνιμος πληθυσμός (Permanent population according to babelfish) and Πραγματικός πληθυσμός (Real population, id.). Your 172k is the first, my 163k is the second. The real population seems better to me. About the functional urban region: if you know which municipalities are part of that (I don't), you can calculate the population from the census data. I took the area data from the Greek ministry of interior website, navigation via the prefecture (right menu bar), municipality name, and then ΒΑΣΙΚΑ ΧΑΡΑΚΤΗΡΙΣΤΙΚΑ. The population number given there is the real population from 1991, I guess the area is still accurate. I calculated the population density myself. Markussep 19:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Never trust a ministry! OK, if you insist you can leave the real population of 163k. I'm not sure about any of the two figures though. I checked the area, your data are accurate and updated for John Capodistria municipal reform program. As a result of this, the communes of Moira, Elikistra, Souli were added to the municipality bringing much area but little population, that's why it seems scarcely populated (GDP per head decreased too!). As for the functional urban region, somebody already has written that the "metropolitan area" is over 200,000. That's an accurate estimation if you include the adjacent Municipalities of Rio, Messatis, Paralia and/or Pharres. This gives a 203,963 in real population. Best, Donnerstag 03:09, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Award

Markussep is awarded this Barnstar for managing to set up an infobox at Athens - something I tried, but failed to do (couldn't find data). Latinus 22:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
How many German towns have articles thanks to you? Punkmorten 20:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
This Barnstar has been awarded for contribution to German Geography Franko2nd 16:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Saint Paul

Before blindly reverting changes please check your sources: http://www.stpaul.fr/ --Alban 17:02, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

That's one, but see also St-Paul on French wikipedia, the word "lès" on French wikipedia, the entry of St-Paul on the website of the French statistics office. There may be variant spellings with "lez", but anyway, it's certainly with hyphens in French. Markussep 19:01, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

If you want to hold a contest of the number of sites that use either name, we can certainly do this. The link I provided is the commune's own official web site. They should know how it's written, shouldn't they? If you don't speak French, ask a friend to translate the page for you. I will not further revert your change, but will come back to the matter at a later time if you don't agree. --Alban 19:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I speak French, don't worry. It's a minor detail, but I still think the official name is with "lès", and hyphens. Take a look at this map, they have both spellings (and capital "Lès" when you zoom in). Markussep 20:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

German Wikipedians' noticeboard

Hello Markussep! Since you are interested in the Holy Roman Empire, you might be interested in the recently-created noticeboard for articles concerning German-related topics. Feel free to participate with the project if you are interested! Olessi 01:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Please check your WP:NA entry

Greetings, editor! Your name appears on Wikipedia:List of non-admins with high edit counts. If you have not done so lately, please take a look at that page and check your listing to be sure that following the particulars are correct:

  1. If you are an admin, please remove your name from the list.
  2. If you are currently interested in being considered for adminship, please be sure your name is in bold; if you are opposed to being considered for adminship, please cross out your name (but do not delete it, as it will automatically be re-added in the next page update).
  3. Please check to see if you are in the right category for classification by number of edits.

Thank you, and have a wiki wiki day! BD2412 T 03:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Moving German towns

Hi, I've looked only at German town in the English wiki and they seem to, for the most part follow the "in brackets" convention. That's why I kept with it and changed what I'm working on to that convention. I really don't care one way or the other but if we want to bo with the comma then we should change all the other brackets to that convention and there seem to be a lot of those as well. --Mmounties 19:00, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Wanna help prep Sanssouci for FAC?

Hi Last Malthusian, I've promised User:Trebor27trebor to help him turn the red links in this very good article into blue links. That's pretty much the only thing that's keeping the article from having a chance at becoming a FAC. I've asked him to list the needed articles on the Sanssouci Talk page so that we can share the work. He's completed the list and I thought it would be terrific if you'd decide to take part in the effort and help us with one or two of them. What do you say? --Mmounties (Talk) 04:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Rhineland-Palatinate etc.

Just to let you know (and in case you hadn't noticed already) I have just split {{Germany-geo-stub}} into a number of Bundesland-specific tags, including {{RhinelandPalatinate-geo-stub}}. --Stemonitis 16:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Kirchheimbolanden

Hi, I don't understand your change to the Kirchheimbolanden articles. One was about the town, and one was about the Verbandsgemeinde (previously Kirchheimbolanden (region)). I'm not sure why they were merged to one article. Don't you think they are two separate things and should have two separate articles, or am I missing something? Either way, thanks for working to make the Wikipedia better. -- Reinyday, 20:03, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Reinyday, I merged them because they're very much related to each other. I don't think the individual municipalities (Ortsgemeinden) in Rhineland-Palatinate will get their own articles soon (like in German wikipedia). I think it's better to keep information about the settlements within a Verbandsgemeinde together in one article. Of course if one settlement is particularly notable, it deserves a separate article. Markussep 20:14, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to restore them. Many small municipalities have their own articles. -- Reinyday, 05:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
If you think 2 is many... Why couldn't the information that's currently in the articles Kirchheimbolanden and Stetten (Kirchheimbolanden) be in one article? Anyway, the term "region" is already in use for the much bigger Regierungsbezirke, if you want to keep a separate article about the Verbandsgemeinde I suggest you move it to "Verbandsgemeinde Kirchheimbolanden" or "Kirchheimbolanden (Verbandsgemeinde)". BTW where did you find the information about Stetten suffering from the 1866 Austro-Prussian war? That's completely new to me, I would expect more from the 1688-1697 Nine Years War. Markussep 10:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
There are hundreds or perhaps thousands of small municipalities with their own articles in the Wikipedia. The current information could be in one article, but my hope is that people who know about the region will expand each article to its full capacity. I moved the larger article to Kirchheimbolanden (administrative unit). As for Stetten, all of my notes are packed from when I moved last year, so please feel free to remove the war information if you think it is incorrect. And again, thanks for your efforts to make the Wikipedia a better place. -- Reinyday, 19:54, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Saarland stubs

I don't think there are enough Saarland geographical stubs to reach the threshold for their own stub category yet. However, you seem to be working on a block of them, and I thought you might know if you're likely to reach 60 before you finish. In that case, I think it would be alright for us to create {{Saarland-geo-stub}} straight away. Will you be making another 15 or so? --Stemonitis 09:11, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

If you want, you can announce them at Portal:Germany/New article announcements (I just did so for Staufenberg, Lower Saxony, Rosdorf, Gleichen, Lower Saxony, and Friedland, Lower Saxony). Thank you for adding these articles! Kusma (討論) 14:26, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

And I announced more, now also on Portal:Germany. Thank you for all these stubs! Kusma (討論) 21:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Category:Ilia

I noticed that this has never been renamed to Elis, so I put it up on WP:CfD. How are the other Greek prefecture cats? Septentrionalis 19:41, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

See CfD for how to move cats. I'll put it on my to-do list; but that will probably be a couple months. Septentrionalis 20:00, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Weißenburg

I don't mean to be unreasonable, and I certainly wish the anon with his "ß is illegal" would go away. However, I would like to see evidence of Weißenburg in Bayern as French usage; it's Wissembourg in Alsace. Septentrionalis 23:24, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Really, Markussep, I did not mean to suggest that the Weissenburgs in Alsace and Bavaria were the same place, but they do have the same name.

As for fr:Meißen:

  • I do not regard the French wikipedia as establishing French usage, any more than the English wikipedia necessarily reflects English usage (or, for that matter, English grammar <sigh>).
  • For what it is worth, the article was originally written at Meissen and the article text is still so spelled; it was moved by a user called Kelson, whose real name appears to be Emmanuel Engelhart.
  • I do think that "nationalism" is the right term for the claim that the English WP should use foreign names for foreign places, while no foreign wikipedia uses English names for English-speaking places (see, for example the translations of London and United States).
    • If you can suggest a more civil term, please do.

But I will get back to you when I have found some French books on Germany.

I see we agree on the principles, even if we weight them differently. I think demonstrable English usage should usually be decisive on en.wikipedia; and I happen to disagree about Geissen, a place of some importance in economic history, and therefore often mentioned in English. But I'm not sufficiently concerned about Geißen to make a move proposal. Septentrionalis 22:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Syr or Syre

Copied from User talk:Bastin8

Hi, you moved the Luxembourgish river Syre to Syr. I'm not completely sure, but I think it should be at Syre (and Roodt-sur-Syr at Roodt-sur-Syre). The Michelin map of Luxembourg has Syre (see for instance http://www.viamichelin.com), and the municipality of Betzdorf (see http://www.betzdorf.lu) has Syre (also for Roodt). Markussep 21:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not at all sure, either. I initially thought that it was 'Syre', hence why I created the article there. However, I have been told that it's 'Syr' by someone from Luxembourg (whom, admittedly, I know only via the Internet). Having now looked at the links that you've provided, and re-Googled it, I can see that it is likely that it is indeed 'Syre'. Perhaps my Luxembourgish source is confusing it with the Lëtzebuergesch name ('Sir'), is unfamiliar with the spelling, or is simply having me on. I will ask whether he has any proof that the spelling is as he says it is. I should have an answer by tomorrow, or maybe Tuesday. Until then, I suggest that we stick with 'Syr', simply for expediency. Thanks for the heads-up, and your continued interest in a subject on which you have contributed so much. Bastin8 22:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
"Syr" might be the (old?) German name, see for instance de:Syr, but also de:Liste der Flüsse in Luxemburg. Syr and Syre are both used in German and in French texts, but Syre is more frequent in both languages according to Google (I searched for the combination with Mertert). But let's await your source. Markussep 17:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
He was quite adamant that 'Syr' is correct, but, having directed him to your links and various Google combinations, he 'conceded' that there's probably more than one version and that he might be on the other side of a dialectic divide. He did point out a couple of site that supported his case ([1], [2]), which ought to use the correct English language spelling (being a UK-based tourist office and the EU presidency site respectively). Having said that, the sheer weight of sites demands that 'Syre' be preferred. I suggest moving it back to 'Syre' and noting 'Syr' as a possible alternative spelling. Bastin8 15:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Town DE

He There. It seams Template:Infobox Town DE is broken, check if you can fix it please. Thnx, Mariano(t/c) 14:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I second Marianocecowski's wish! --Ghormax 20:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

well it seams one of the templates used by the Infobox Town DE was corrupted, and has been fixed. If I properly recall, the problem was with the coordinates, that didn't show right. I got part of the URL for kvaleberg a text, but now its OK. Thnx. Mariano(t/c) 05:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Meißen

Hi, you just moved Meißen to Meissen. Before you do something like that, you should submit it at Wikipedia:Requested moves. There has been a lot of discussion about replacing characters in proper names, that are part of the extended Latin alphabet, like ß, ð and þ. There is no consensus about that, see Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English)#Disputed_issues. I suppose that means you shouldn't move this page unilaterally. I'll move it back. Markussep 13:55, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

People who want article names in German can use the German Wikipedia. Piccadilly 23:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
What nonsense! Have you read anything I wrote above? 1. Discuss moves like this before you do them. 2. Meißen nor Meissen is English, it's a town in Germany, and you can't decide on your own what the common English name is. Markussep 08:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
What garbage! This is the English Wikipedia and it should be written in English. There is not one English word with that letter in its common name because it is not used in English. It is completely illegitimate to suggest that there is any need to decide on a case by case basis. Non native speakers who try to use Wikipedia to bend the English language should be banned from Wikipedia. You have no more right to tell us how to write English than we have to tell you how to write Dutch. The difference is that there are a lot of non-native speakers trying to manipulate the English wikipedia, but probably very few non-native Dutch speakers on the Dutch one. Piccadilly 15:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Werder (Havel)

Hi. I changed the category back to Cities in Brandenburg. Werder's official website lists itself as a city [3]. If you know of something confirming that it is a town and not a city, of course I will not object. Note that if that change does become necessary, the template {{Germany districts brandenburg}} will also have to be changed.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Long talk page

Greetings! Your talk page is getting a bit long in the tooth - please consider archiving your talk page (or ask me and I'll archive it for you). Cheers! BD2412 T 00:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

If you want, you can announce them at Portal:Germany/New article announcements (I just did so for Staufenberg, Lower Saxony, Rosdorf, Gleichen, Lower Saxony, and Friedland, Lower Saxony). Thank you for adding these articles! Kusma (討論) 14:26, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

And I announced more, now also on Portal:Germany. Thank you for all these stubs! Kusma (討論) 21:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Werder (Havel)

Hi. I changed the category back to Cities in Brandenburg. Werder's official website lists itself as a city [4]. If you know of something confirming that it is a town and not a city, of course I will not object. Note that if that change does become necessary, the template {{Germany districts brandenburg}} will also have to be changed.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Holzgerlingen

The new infobox you placed at the Holzgerlingen article doens't allow for Imperial units of measure to be used. As a resident of the United States, I am completely unfamiliar with most metric units (I know what they are, but don't have any experience using them). Most US residents share my inability, and I would appreciate if the infobox could be amended. Sorry to cause trouble on behalf of Imperial units, RyanGerbil10 (Drop on in!) 19:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply. I put the original infobox back, but I eagerly await your version, because it looks better and clutters the page less. Thanks! RyanGerbil10 (Drop on in!) 20:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Excellent, I like it very much. Thank you for the quick reply, and civil conduct. I've had to vouch for Imperial unit inclusion before, and I have frequently received an icy reception from high-minded Metric users. Thank you for the excellent template and friendly interaction. Happy to be of help, RyanGerbil10 (Drop on in!) 21:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

A request

Thank you so much for your work on the DE imp. infobox. I was wondering, since you seem to understand infoboxes quite well (I'm terrible at them) could you rewrite the infobox at Wąbrzeźno for me? I'm currently translating the article from German, but I have no idea what to do about the infobox, which again only uses metric units. If so, I would be so endebtted I would have to give some kind of reward, like cookies :) RyanGerbil10 (Drop on in!) 03:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I think you'd better ask the users who created the infobox. Probably User:Halibutt. Markussep 06:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

German places

Thanks for sorting out the table. I didn't realise I'd converted all the Schleswig-Holstein places to Saarland. --Stemonitis 07:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Naming conventions

hi, i inform u that in accordance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) i removed the names of the hungarian kingdom administrative divisions that were provided as alternate names for contemporary romanian administrative divisions from the leading paragraph in their coresponding articles Criztu 10:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC) criztu

hi again. i have addressed the ambiguities of Naming conventions related to the alternative names of administrative divisions of Romania here http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions#Administrative_division_may_have_an_alternative_name_.3F pls check my points, i think i expressed my view of the matter in a more accurate and brief way. thx !Criztu 18:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Helmbrechts

Was on my todo list for a long time - thanks Agathoclea 15:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

French rivers

Sure, it's ok to have a river named "X" rather than "X River", but the trouble is, when you have 100 rivers in France, it makes no sense to have *some* of them be "X" and *some* of them be "X River". There may be a tiny minority where there is an established English tradition (Rhine and Seine would probably be about the only two). For all the others, a standard naming convention of X River seems the best for consistency and clarity. It has the additional benefit of avoiding any possible ambiguity with communes or departments, but that's not the major reason for doing it, if that's what you were wondering.

Does that make sense? Do you agree that there is a benefit to having all (or 99% of) rivers follow the same naming convention? And if some are forced to use X River for disambiguity, then no harm is done by making them all do that? Why your preference for just X? Stevage 22:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, well I'm only arguing for naming all *French* rivers "X River". Is that ok? It's true that "River" is not part of the name of French rivers - but that's just self-evident. In French, you just say "le Sée" or "la Saône" or whatever - but I don't think there is an established tradition in English. But googling "Saone river" comes up with plenty of matches. See [5] for example - it uses a combination of X River, then X for brevity. Stevage 17:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Prefectures categories.

I agree that this would be helpful in relieving the category and I supprot the idea. You may go ahead with it by all means =) - Erebus555 17:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Leipsoi because of Λειψοί?

Hi, it may not be a major point but why the move to the odd-looking "Leipsoi"? From what I remember, no one in the area transcribes it that way. It is always "Lipsi" or "Lipsos". Just look at the external links. All the best, <KF> 20:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, as long as there is a redirect people will find it no matter how it is spelled in English. Thanks for the answer. <KF> 20:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Greece

The Pyli stub in Trikala,Thessaly is no more. It is my hometown and was surprised to find it (even as a stub) in the wikipedia, so I took the liberty of filling it. It's not promotion stuff, more of a small guide (and it really is a nice place). I'd be happy to have it checked! Keep up the good work on stubs. Sooner or later it'll be filled!User:stoneforger 02:04, 18 October 2006 (EEST)

Keep up the Greece stubs. You are filling in important gaps!! Go for it my friend!! James Janderson 12:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

No I don't speak Greek its just I regularly do similar stubs with italy and other places and I know it is hard work which rarely gets appreciated or encouraged. Keep it up!! James Janderson 12:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi good to see you are still ploughing through them. I may give a hand later. I have already started millions of Italian communes but I have recently noticed that the municipalities of Slovakia are practically not covered. At a later date would you like to help me go through them? -obviously after you have taken a well earned rest from greece!!!! James Janderson 15:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

hey I have started articles on Ziros and Sitia Mountains to help you out! The prefecture of east Crete though needs a template box. James Janderson 10:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, u are doing a really great job in these articles. If u have difficulties with the greek language, i will be really happy to help:). Regards --Hectorian 23:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I've checked about 10 prefectures by now, by moving alphabetically. i moved two municipalities of corfu [6] (see the respective articles as well), cause the names were in the genitive case. i made one more correction in Chalcidice [7], though it seems that u have not yet get involved in that article. lastly, an advice: it will be very hard to find a greek municipality in the nominative case, cause we always use the genitive when talking about municipalities. furthermore, most of the names of the municipalities created recently with the "Cappodistria Plan" have nothing to do with the villages they are made of, in order to avoid confict between them (many "conflicts" concerning some names and which village should be the capital have been reported the last 5 years) and, in addition, some names come from mythological or ancient figures. so, most likely, there will be municipalities for which u will not find their name in the nominative case online... I will check the rest prefectures soon. Regards --Hectorian 00:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeap, i know;). keep up the good work. the prefectures that still remain in my talk page are ok. let me know when u are about proceed to others (in case i have not checked them earlier). Cheers --Hectorian 22:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Well done Markussep! I've just finished checking them and all look fine! If u, and me, missed something concerning the transliteration from greek to english as well as their nominative case, don't worry... as time passes me (and other greek users) will see them, and any minor mistake (if exists) will be corrected. Keep up the good work;). Cheers --Hectorian 02:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Wassertrüdingen

Are you still working on it? If not I would start it.--Tresckow 04:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Article rename

hello Markussep,

you once voiced your opinion on the article "Trentino-South Tyrol" if I am not mistaken. There is a discussion going on on the article "Bozen-Bolzano", which is to be renamed as "Bolzano-Bozen". Maybe you care to voice your opinion on this matter on the article's talk page? Thank you for your time.

sincerely Gryffindor 18:48, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


Križevci (former county) move proposal

You might want to discuss move proposals of Hungarian counties at Talk:Križevci (former county). -  AjaxSmack  18:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Koper Capodistria

I see you have renamed the article. I've already reverted you uncorrect action. The city is official bilingual and I don't accept your impositon. Don't revert again. If you don't agree with the double name, contact a moderator. He will tell you the Wikpedia rules about NPOV. Greetings.--Giovanni Giove 19:58, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, in this case, "Capodistria" should be the correct name. Because it's the historically name and the more known internatinally . Believe to me: it is better to have respect for the other opinions and feelings. Keep the name you find in the sign you see outside the city: that name is Koper-Capodistria.--Giovanni Giove 20:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
If you live in Holland, you don't live in a bilingual country. Your "correction" is not correct, because you don't give to the Italian name the same value of the Slovenian one. In Slovenia people think the opposite, so they officially named the city, Koper/Capodistria. That is a question of respect. Italy did the some with its small slovenian towns, not to say about South Tyrol.Furhtermore, you can not tell which is the "correct" English name, Koper or Capodistria?. Finally, you are goingvery close to touch wounds and you don't imagine how deep they are.--Giovanni Giove 21:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

NB[8]

Probably Netherlands have blingual region, as Frisland. Anyway: who cares? 1)I repeat: respect the official bilingual name. 2) A name it's not only a name. It's to recognize your identity. To recognize you are a part of a land, that is your homeland. You said right: today italians are not so much and they were more before the war: about the 99%! The nationalism has pushed them off! A battle of opposite nationalism (nobody is innocent!). Do you know how this battle is started? Yes: neglecting the names. I know the results: my family has paid for them: we have only our greaves there. Respect double names, they are a sign of respect, to show that is possible to live togheter sharing the same land. Learn from the past if you don't want to live it again--Giovanni Giove 08:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Indeed: there are TWO official names. And as you said wikipedia must give information. So: let it be. Two names are the right information, for the reasons I've tried to tell you. If you think you are right, and I'm wrong, I beg you to contact a moderator. But don't try to decide on your own. End of discussion.--Giovanni Giove 12:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Rivers

Hey Markussep! I was actually referring to the naming section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Rivers, which you had already mentioned at Talk:Soča - Isonzo River. I'm not aware of an "accepted" guideline for rivers specifically at Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Sorry for the confusion. Olessi 05:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not aware of an explicit rule against double-naming, but the South Tyrolean localities are the only articles I know of that include double-naming in the title. Olessi 16:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

moving of article Brixen-Bressanone

hello Markussep,

while I find it admirable that you are trying to find a solution in Talk:Communes of South Tyrol, could you please explain why you move the article to Brixen, Italy without any prior discussion on the talk page of the article or a request for moving? I think we should try to find a consensus first before starting to moving rashly in this very delicate issue, don't you agree? Gryffindor 20:00, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but I do not see that any of the debate has been closed, and not sufficient time has been given for all parties to voice their arguments IMO. I also see that you have been moving all the other places without waiting for the end of the discussion. And again, while I find it admirable that you try to seek a solution, certain procedures and a grace period should be given. I am having trouble following the discussion on the talk page. For example where would Bozen-Bolzano and Meran-Merano end up? I think the dual naming solution was just fine, because that would give both sides the opportunity to voice their versions, since no clear "English" version exists. Gryffindor 20:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be no clear policy on this issue and I don't think that waiting a little bit more, normally it's at least, a month hurts the issue. While I can see that my idea of having double-names does not have a majority at the moment, you should allow for reasonable time in order for these kinds of discussions to pass. Again, what is the hurry? If a majority will form, it will form itself sooner or later. If you are going to go with a majority of what the population speaks, as you are proposing, then it will have to be "Meran" not "Merano", while in the meantime it would have to be (grudgingly) "Bolzano". So please wait a little bit longer for the outcome of the discussion, 2 weeks is certainly not enough by any standard. Gryffindor 21:14, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Again, ample time should be given in a discussion that concerns more than just two people. In this case I don't see the need to rush into anything and at least give more than a month time for the discussion to end, and a clear policy to be formulated. About the specific rules, of course I and another user have a problem with double-names being removed, because at least they represent all ethnicities. If you are going to insist on using the name for the majority-spoken language, then this has to be consistent. Google results are not the most representable, because most of the sites found will be either in Italian or German. I can only agree on this new policy (very grudgingly) if Meran-Merano will be at "Meran", and I will just have to accept that Bozen-Bolzano will be moved to "Bolzano, Italy", according to a new policy. Gryffindor 16:16, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
It is simple, all towns in the Province of Bolzano-Bozen use the Italian-German. Any other way, and as someone from this region, I would be saddened to not see both listed. Should be Merano-Meran, Bolzano-Bozen, Brennero-Brenner, etc. Also, the province is not South Tyrol. We can both respect the history of this region and not be so biased as to change the name of the province. I mean, look at the license plates for God's sake, they have BZ for Bolzano-Bozen. Taalo 21:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Brixen, Italy should be at Brixen, while disambiguation for Brixen im Thale and Bishopric of Brixen would be done in a standard disclaimer at the beginning of the page. The South Tyrolian city is by far the most common usage of "Brixen", and therefore should simply be at "Brixen". If the desired title is already a disambiguation page (thereby preventing easy moves), that's why there are administrators and WP:RM. Olessi 17:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello Markus, how did Brixen, Italy not get moved when there was clearly consensus on this? Gryffindor 17:02, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh excuse me, what an unusal last name :-) I guess Brixen should be moved to a disamb. page so this one can make space, let me know if you need any help with that. cheers Gryffindor 17:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Infobox Town DE imp

Template:Infobox Town DE imp has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Bob 22:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Province of Bolzano-Bozen

Hello Markussep, I'd like to have a good conversation with you on this, and other issues with this region. My feeling is that Austrians (particular those with admin rights such as Gryffindor) have manipulated things to push a highly inflamatory German POV. I'm very familiar with this region. The REGION is Trentino-Alto Adige/Sudtirol. This is in the name in the Italian consitution. The Alto Adige/Sudtirol is there in particular to respect the two ethnic groups in the Province of Bolzano-Bozen. The two PROVINCES are the Province of Trento, with it's capitol being the city of Trento; the Province of Bolzano-Bozen, with it's capitol being the city of Bolzano-Bozen. You go there, and you find TN on the Trento license plates and BZ on the Bolzano-Bozen license plates. That user Gryffindor, if you look way back, he moved Trentino-Alto Adige to Trentino-South Tyrol a long time ago without consensus. This has been an ongoing process, and to me, is very creepy. I really like this region a lot, and I would like to see a fair, non-biased writeup of the regions. A write-up free of German POV, Italian POV, and politics. take care. Taalo 19:59, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I miswrote my assertion on User talk:Taalo, I meant "Germanophile", not German. Note that I don't have the User talk:Taalo page on my watch list, if you want to reply my posts.--Supparluca 08:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Brixen

Hi, you closed the move discussion at Talk:Brixen, Italy. Your votes count was probably different from mine, because I do see a consensus. We have a majority for "Brixen" (Olessi, Gryffindor, Ajaxsmack and myself) versus "Bressanone-Brixen" (Taalo, Panarjedde), and no votes for "Brixen, Italy". Could you move it? Markussep 17:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I will remain that there is no clear consensus for the move to occur. I don't think any more pages should be moved until consensus is reached on what to do with all of them. It's bad enough as it is, let's not make it worse. Once everyone agrees on a format (just the Italian name, Italian-German, German-Italian, etc.) then all the pages can be moved. —Mets501 (talk) 17:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Before Taalo and Rarelibra came along to push double names (which they stopped, fortunately), there was a consensus for using the most common name in English, and if there isn't any, use the name in the language of the local majority. See Talk:Communes of South Tyrol. "Brixen" fits in this scheme. 67% pro is enough for me. Markussep 17:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey pal, I proposed double names in a (naive) attempt to have some sort of compromise, considering that users have gone through and basically put every city already as German-Italian. So it was someone else who obviously pushed for this before any of us. I'm fine with no double names, but then this obviously will make the case for going with Italian first (with the German and Ladin translations), as has been done now with Bolzano. Taalo 17:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad you're fine with no double names. Note that the move to Bolzano doesn't imply that everything must be Italian now. Bolzano has an Italian-speaking majority, which makes "Bolzano" a plausible name (that, and it's also more used in English). Brixen has a German-speaking majority. Markussep 18:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, and I hope you realize it was someone else who put double-names everyplace. Even some (Grif, for example) give support to Meran-Merano. Yes, that Bolzano is used now doesn't imply anything, I agree. This needs to be discussed in a non-biased professional manner. Assuming only one name is used, then I'd have to go with the Italian names. 1) It is Italy 2) there are really no English equivalents 3) going by language majority is opening a can of worms. For example, Merano is almost 50/50, that means you'd have to essentially update all the time. Also, typical Wiki convention is to go with the name used in the country's language. Then you add translations in the page and appropriate redirects. Anyway! :) My opinion also is to use some unbiased mediators to help decide. This German vs Italian voting is gettin' sorta old, isn't it? cheers. Taalo 18:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Markussep. Unless we want to open up a poll on if the result was legitimate or not.... :-/ Gryffindor 17:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, fine, I've moved it. —Mets501 (talk) 18:05, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Hah, well anyway. I think we're going to try and have a general discussion on how to address all of these. Also, I'm favouring this user Lar's offer to mediate, so we have someone try to objectively look at the references online and decide using Wiki conventions. I personally think things should be as on Bolzano for Italian cities with no straight-forward English equivalent. But that is just me. take care. Taalo 18:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

mediation

hey markussep, please respond to Lar's offer, if anything with a thanks! later. Taalo 18:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice going mate remember me I used to be James Janderson now I have become an evil genius who wants to take over the world and lives in a volcano! Greece is done and dusted now is it!! I am still plodding through slovakia I am just about half way through. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

bolzano

Markussep, my friend, you said "South Tyrol/Alto Adige/Südtirol is part of the official name, not a blurb". From someone whose family is from Italy (and this region), I'll say once more -- it is not. Just because it is written on the website of the province does not mean it is official. Saying Province of Bolzano - Alto Adige, is the same as saying Province of Sienna - Tuscany, Province of Pisa - Tuscany, Province of Trento - Trentino, etc. It just isn't really done -- and it certainly is not official. Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. :) Coming from a technical field though, I usually try to make sure I'm fairly sure of what I'm saying. Are you so sure of your statement? anyway, good night. ;) Taalo 06:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Your Tuscany examples are irrelevant, because it's obvious that the region Tuscany covers several provinces (and it's not Province of Bolzano - Trentino-South Tyrol). My evidence is the statements about the official name on German wikipedia, Italian wikipedia and French wikipedia, and the official statute of the province in German and Italian. I found something interesting here, page 39 and further: apparently the provincial government introduced the names Autonome Provinz Bozen/Südtirol and Provincia autonoma di Bolzano/Alto Adige, but the official names are (or were in 2002) Autonome Provinz Bozen and Provincia autonoma di Bolzano. It also says that since autumn 2001, the region is officially called Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol (pg 40). Markussep 15:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, I wouldn't blow off the examples as entirely irrelevant, especially the example of Province of Trento-Trentino. The primary point is that it is customary that the province is named after the major city in the province; with no region/area attached to it. You can easily verify this by looking at the provincial names in Italy, right? I was aware that in the past few years they went to stating Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol explicitly in the Italian constitution, and I feel that was a very good move by the Gov't. If they have made a change to the name of the province itself -- that is really news to me. I don't know if we should really go by other wikipedia pages though if we really want to get down to the fact of the matter. If it is indeed official though, it is pretty sloppy looking, I must say.. LOL. I imagine most people will continue to refer to it as simply the Province of Bolzano. Anyway, my opinion would still be to move to Province of Bolzano. Also, it will get away from a whole new debate of: Province of Bolzano-Alto Adige, Province of Bolzano-South Tyrol, Province of Bozen-South Tyrol, Province of Bozen-Alto Adige, etc., etc. :-) The Trentino-Alto Adige move is still confusing on its own. I tend to again like to go with Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol since it is official. Also, it gets away from the debate of Trentino-Alto Adige (which I still believe is the name most widely used in English) vs Trentino-South Tyrol. Any thoughts? regards. Taalo 21:57, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll try to find some time to research it more. At this point it is really hard to tell if it is really an official new name of the province. If it is indeed the case (which I'm not convinced yet :), I'm thinking we would maybe go with Province of Bolzano-Alto Adige/Südtirol to go along with Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol. This is going to get crazy.. hah. :-) later. Taalo 22:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't suggest using the full official name as the article title in either case (we don't have an article named "République Française", "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" or translated versions of those either). Alto Adige, Südtirol and Province of Bolzano refer to the same place, so one of them should suffice. Markussep 14:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, well then for the province/area, I think I would favour Province of Bolzano so it is consistent (I like consistency!) with all the other provincial pages (which have all been named or moved to Province of ...'). Then I'd (just me personally) would go with Trentino-Alto Adige for the Italian region since this is what is used in the majority of English references (Britannica, etc., etc.). Anyway, since at least we know for a fact that the official name of the region is Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol, I'll add that to the first paragraph. I think that at least should have no debate. The town names are still the most interesting debate afterall. I see the point in going by the local majority language. Though, in Stelvio/Stilfs, I believe Stelvio is the much more common name for the village and Pass. Anyway, glad Lars is taking on the task of deciding.. LOL. take care. Taalo 17:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
It's all very simple if you consider a couple of Wikipedia rules: 1) Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) (and not Italian) and we do not use official names, therefore it's Italy and not Italian republic, Aosta Valley and not "Autonomous region of Aoste" or whatever, as well Sicily and not Sicilia. 2) Wikipedia:Neutral point of view South Tyrol is more neutral than using Alto Adige or Province of Bolzano. Hope you read through the policies and think about it. ciao Gryffindor 18:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I definitely agree with your set of examples. But, well, I'd have to say that "South Tyrol is more neutral than using Alto Adige or Province of Bolzano." is definitely a debatable statement. :-) I feel using the Province of Bolzano is the most neutral form. Why? 1) it fits very well with the convention used on all the other Italian province pages 2) it is the official and universally known name for the province. As soon as the name of the area comes into play, i.e. Alto Adige/Sudtirol/South Tyrol, etc., (especially with the title of the page) then it can easily get more into politics of he says, she says (German and Italian POV). With regards to using English, Province of Bolzano is just as much English as South Tyrol. Anyway, if I had my way, I'd most like to use Province of Bolzano-Bozen; then a redirect from Alto Adige/Sudtirol/South Tyrol to the province page. This is what is done with the Province of Trento and "Trentino". Then each of those pages can have a write-up actually trying to briefly explain to people what the areas names mean..hah. Then on the Trentino-Alto Adige/Sudtirol (or whatever the heck it is finally called) I'd concentrate more on the history of the region and these two areas. Now a lot of information is duplicated. Anyway, I'm interested how we can do the names in a good way. I would of still preferred to just have double-barrel names. I saw that for Ortisei that the Ladin name was used. The thing though is that Ortisei is definitely more commonly used -- and in the end it is the same word as in Ladin! (but a whole lot easier to read). Also, it would be nice to really research into what town names were invented as well. From that prontario it was really difficult to decipher where new stuff was invented. Someday I'd like to see the history section have all the facts but in a neutral fashion. Then a concentration on actually giving useful information about the provinces. There has been forced Germanisation, there has been forced Italianisation, even forced Romanisation. That is the past, at least the end result can be nice. There isn't really much I like more than the area from Innsbruck to Verona. :-) anyway, you two have a nice weekend. Taalo 22:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary

Yes, it's a good idea. I'll participate in creating that new article. But at first we should ask Juro, if he agrees, because he often tends to revert my edits. Öcsi 10:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Kirra Greece

Could you please take a look at the page Kirra Greece that I've created? And could you please edit it? Thank you! Neptunekh 22:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Trentino-South Tyrol mess

Wouldn't you agree that the official document from the official website of the Province of Bolzano says a lot? It was pointed out in the talk page of Lars: [9]. I find it rather interesting myself. Rarelibra 21:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Dialects

Hi dude, yeah, yeah, sorry, Ladin is not a dialect. Someone who does language studies told me this some time ago. It is just that in Italy there are literally thousands of languages spoken locally. I guess, and wrongly so, people have gotten used to calling them dialects. But, what is for sure, Ladin, like all these other local languages are those of the Italian people. Nones is very similar to Ladin actually. I don't speak it so well (Nones that is), but I do understand it as it is grammatically very similar to Italian. You know what, it is a darn fun language too! Anyhay.. My best regards. ps. these "debates" have at least gotten to a point of being quite interesting, eh? Well, as soon as Martin Se pulls back his volcano on his user page -- we might all be friends.. hah. :-) Taalo 22:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Seesen

You started Seesen. I just cleared the talk page which was filed with what seems a screen-scrape copy of the article. But the article itself is only a stub. You will need to check the history of the talkpage. Agathoclea 11:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Markussepp

There's a Markussepp (talk · contribs). No relation to you, I presume? I see you're editing Greece-related articles, where this guy (and other accounts) dumped external links. Is there a common meaning behind the names and it's a coincidence that they're similar, or do you suppose it's an imposter trying to disguise with your existing name? Femto 15:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Germany WikiProject

Hi Markussep,

as you are the creator of hundreds of stubs about German towns, I would like to invite you to participate at WikiProject Germany. I think we should have a project subpage with a joint effort to create and expand articles on all German municipalities, and make sure they have infoboxes, coats of arms etc. Perhaps it would be a good idea to create a task force and use special switches in the project template to categorize (and eventually improve) bad articles and track changes. If you would like to participate, please add your name to the list and comment on the possible organization of a municipalities status page at the project talk page. Happy editing, Kusma (討論) 23:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to WikiProject Germany

Welcome, Markussep, to the WikiProject Germany! Please direct any questions about the project to its talk page. If you create new articles on Germany-related topics, please list them at our announcement page and tag their talk page with our project template {{WikiProject Germany}}. A few features that you might find helpful:

  • The project's Navigation box points to most of the pages in the project that might be of use to you.
  • Most of the important discussions related to the project take place on the project's main talk page; you may find it useful to watchlist it.
  • We've developed a number of guidelines for names, titles, and other things to standardize our articles and make interlinking easier that you may find useful.

A list of articles needing cleanup associated with this project is available. See also the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.

Here are some tasks you can do. Please remove completed tasks from the list.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me or any of the more experienced members of the project, and we'll be very happy to help you. Again, welcome, and thank you for joining this project! Kusma (討論) 22:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


File:Interlingual Original Barnstar.png The Geography Barnstar
for your extensive work on European geographical features in Wikipedia Attilios 13:45, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Târgu Mureş

I've moved the page for you, so feel free to make the necessary changes now. Cheers, Khoikhoi 02:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

No problem! By the way, do you remember me when I was Hottentot? :-) Khoikhoi 05:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Shhhhhh. ;-) Khoikhoi 22:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Route nationale

Thanks for correcting the links etc on the Route Nationale's, it proved beyond the time I had available. CheersVivbaker 10:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Amfipoli, Greece

Hi. I made added some and some external links on a page about a town called Amfipoli in Greece. Could You check it out and maybe it edit please? Thank you! Neptunekh 22:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

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