User talk:Maptv

Welcome!

Hello, Maptv!

I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Getting Started

Tutorial
Learn everything you need to know to get started.

Introduction to contributing

The Teahouse
Ask questions and get help from experienced editors.

The Task Center
Learn what Wikipedians do and discover how to help.

Tips

Don't be afraid to edit! Just find something that can be improved and make it better. Other editors will help fix any mistakes you make.
It's normal to feel a little overwhelmed, but don't worry if you don't understand everything at first—it's fine to edit using common sense.
If an edit you make is reverted, you can discuss the issue at the article's talk page. Be civil, and don't restore the edit unless there is consensus.
Always use edit summaries to explain your changes.
When adding new content to an article, always include a citation to a reliable source.
If you wish to edit about a subject with which you are affiliated, read our conflict of interest guide and disclose your connection.
Have fun! Your presence in the Wikipedia community is welcome.

Happy editing! Cheers, 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:35, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Local time

There is no definite right answer to this one. Before the advent of "national time", the term "local time" certainly meant the time according to local sundials, But in modern usage, the term means "civil time". When flying in, the cabin crew will say "welcome to XYZ, where the local time is hh:mm", meaning the time that is shown on local clocks. To take an extreme case, in Kashgar Prefecture (far west China), the official local time is China Standard Time (UTC+08:00) but, as it is at 75°E, local solar time is UTC+05:00. The article local time covers this in more detail. So, in the absence of a better term, we use "local solar time" to designate the time according to a sundial. It doesn't mean it is correct usage of course: if you can show that the preponderance of reliable sources use a different term, then the article will have to be changed accordingly.

Please don't be discouraged by having one of your first edits reverted, because that is the way that Wikipedia is designed to work (see Wikipedia:Bold, revert, discuss). Making mistakes and being advised is the best way to learn how to edit Wikipedia articles. Welcome again! --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:35, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

What do you think about replacing "local solar time" with "local civil time" or "local standard time"? I believe it might be even better to drop the word "local" because is a bit redundant with "at a particular place"?

My interpretation of the example you provided is that local time, standard time, or civil time, i.e. "the time that is shown on local clocks", are more correct in this case than solar time, i.e. "the time according to a sundial". Looking at a sundial does not tell me the UTC offset in my location and if I guess based on what I see on the sundial, I may be off by multiple hours even if I am in the middle of my time zone. In contrast, I could quickly find my exact UTC offset by comparing a local clock to one set to UTC.

Replacing "solar time" with "civil time" or "standard time" also provides an opportunity to include a relevant link. The articles on Civil time and Standard time discuss UTC offsets in their respective first paragraphs. The article for Solar time does not mention UTC offsets at all.

Thanks again for providing the rationale for the reversion. I am looking forward to making more edits and having more discussions of those edits in the future :) Maptv (talk) 00:51, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is not easy! (For a moment I even thought that you were correct all along and I had been wrong to revert!) I suggest that the explanation at the top of the article is critical: There are many cases where the national standard time uses a time zone that differs from the UTC offset appropriate to its longitude. Taking Kahshgar again (75° E), the civil time is same as Beijing, UTC+08:00. But the sundial time is UTC+05:00, that is its UTC offset. It differs from the time zone.

FYI, this sort of discussion is normally held at the article's own talk page but as you are new, I felt I ought to give you a personal explanation. (BTW, I will see what is writtem here at your personal talk page for the first month; after that if you want my attention you will need to ping me (see template:ping) or leave a message at user talk:JMF.) --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 01:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see you had a very similar or even near-identical discussion on the article's own talk page a few years ago. I will post a short reply there. Maptv (talk) 03:48, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]