User talk:Makimakisora

Your submission at Articles for creation: Song Yaxuan (April 13)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DoubleGrazing was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Song Yaxuan and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Song Yaxuan, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:36, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Makimakisora! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:36, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, thank you very much for reviewing the page. I'm not really sure which websites are considered as unreliable sources, as some sources are in another language, what is the standardization to decide whether a foreign website is reliable or not? And how would the reviewer determine if the website is reliable or not?

Thank you. Makimakisora (talk) 08:38, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

Using non-English-language sources is perfectly acceptable, as long as they meet the criteria laid out in WP:RS. If there is any doubt as to the reliability of a source, it can be looked into on a case-by-case basis by editors who are familiar with media outlets in that language or country.

Some AfC reviewers, including myself, also use a tool that automatically flags up sources that are considered non-reliable, or where reliability is questionable; in the case of your draft, this has identified Baidu Baike and Douban as unreliable. There are also citations of another Wikipedia language version (zh), which is not considered reliable either.

Finally, part of the reason for the decline ('not adequately supported by reliable sources') refers to some content simply not being supported by any source; case in point: the statement "He has a younger brother who’s 8 years younger" cites no source. Why this matters is that information about living people, especially private details of themselves or their family members etc., must be directly supported by a reliable source (see WP:BLP for more information).

HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:04, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the instruction and clarification. Here's one more question I have when editing; for instance I have found reliable English language sources like New York Times and Global Times, yet it is indirectly supporting the content as a reference. In detail, I have found website capturing a photo with captions stating "the fans are celebrating his (the person I am editing for) birthday on a public screen on March 4th", and that reflects that this person's DOB is March 4th. Would this be considered as a valid reference? I have a few content in similar situation.

Thanks again, Makimakisora (talk) 22:23, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't think you could use the photo in your example as a source, certainly not for anything sensitive or potentially contentious. Even if the photo and its caption were accurate, which we can't say for sure, that's not the publication reporting the DOB as a fact, it's rather being revealed, possibly inadvertently. In any case, something like DOB, we must always err on the side of caution — see WP:DOB. This could also be considered original research (WP:OR) which isn't allowed. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 05:26, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for your reply again. I have re-checked the rules on DOB for living person bibliography and chose to cite the person's self-published sources. I have noticed that for most of the B-class rated articles for living people bibliographies, the individual tend to have publications under or have won awards with mostly North American & European press & media. Is it possible to have a B-class article of a foreign artist who does not yet have much publications/recognition in the English language dominated press media? (By all means, does the class-rating associate with the person's notability in the English language dominated press media? And in fact this draft I am editing falls more into a article translation category.)

Thanks, best, Makimakisora (talk) 22:59, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Song Yaxuan (May 4)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Justiyaya was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Song Yaxuan and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Song Yaxuan, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Justiyaya 13:19, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for reviewing the article. Since this article falls more into a translation category, many of the sources I found are in zh-lang and regarding the NPOV issue, most written contents are translation of zh-lang sources (I have cited the source as well). I am not sure if I should change the tone to a more neutral pov when I am translating the content into English. And for tagging image permission on commons, can you please provide some instructions on that?

Thanks again, Makimakisora (talk) 19:07, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Makimakisora, thanks for replying here, no, the images that you replaced the previous one with is still a copyright violation, please only upload images where:

1. You've taken it yourself (with exceptions)
2. The source marks the image as a license that is compatible with commons
3. Is public domain in other ways

I do not there there is a image with a valid license on Wikipedia or Commons due to the zh-wiki article not containing an image. Places that I think the article does not have a neutral point of view include:

1. life-changing
2. displaying some talents
3. shyness
4. surprising

BLP issues include, second sentence, ref user generated, see note right before the comments section and really just remove all WP:USERGENERATED sources and unreliable sources in general I guess. Consider trimming the article down a lot. Justiyaya 02:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the clarifications. For the the medias uploaded to wiki commons, does it mean that all photos need to satisfy the following?

• Republication and distribution must be allowed.
• Publication of derivative work must be allowed.
• Commercial use of the work must be allowed.
• The license must be perpetual (non-expiring) and non-revocable.
• Acknowledgment of all authors/contributors of a work may be required.
• Publication of derivative work under the same license may be required.
• For digital distribution, use of open file formats free of digital restrictions management (DRM) may be required.

And if I have photos which may satisfy the above conditions, how would I show the proof that it does?

Thank you, Makimakisora (talk) 18:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Yea I think it would be allowed (appears to be verbatim from Commons:Licensing). I don't think WP:NFCC applies here because the article is a BLP. If you do have photos which may satisfy the above conditions, have you published it previously on a website? All of your previous images have been, if so, ensure that you own the copyright to the photo, then see Commons:Wikimedia VRT release generator. If not, the upload method you've used previously should work. Got something else to do on Wiki and is busy irl so I won't be checking here for a new post anytime soon. Justiyaya 02:10, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Song Yaxuan (May 5)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Justiyaya was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Song Yaxuan and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Song Yaxuan, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft for the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be tagged for G13 deletion.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Justiyaya 05:35, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Discussion for Draft:Song Yaxuan.

Hi, Makimakisora, I have recently done an overhaul to the draft of Song Yaxuan.

To summarize, I have:

• fixed inconsistencies in punctuation through the page.
• improved the formatting for the tables and added reference column for the filmography section.
• redid the chronological outline for the career section while rewriting the dates.
• added interlanguage links that show where English articles don't exist for the corresponding original Chinese links.
• done minor changes to data in the Infobox along with adding more info.
• placed templates at top of the article to inform about where more improvements are needed. Especially to this particular area of Chinese media on the English Wikipedia.

What we need to do:

• add more info available on zh:宋亞軒.
• find more reputable citations (if possible) from the internet as well as from other encyclopedias.
• find help in creating drafts for all the missing pages on the English wiki which can be found on the Chinese wiki.

I was quite happy to discover you took the initiate to create an article for an up-and-coming idol that the West is still sleeping on. I believe we can successfully get this article approve for the world to see. I am pleased to make your acquaintance and hope to potentially work more with you in the future! Thank you for your wonderful work! FourPaws (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi FourPaws. Hope all is well.

First of all thank you very much for all the efforts you have put into the draft of Song. I appreciate your help and your polishing works.

As you may see this is my very first Wikipedia article ever created. It took me quite some time to familiarize with all the Wiki language and their sets of rules and standards.

Me personally I am an absolute fangirl of Song Yaxuan, and for now I do have a clear goal to have his English Wiki page submitted and approved as the first member in their group. Whether you are a fan of Song Yaxuan or not, my sincere appreciations to you and your time.

Song and his group truly are sparking noticeable potentialities as young idols.

I think for sure the article is in a good shape right now. As you may see it's assessed as a B-class article (pretty rare for a non-western based Arts&Entertainment Biography). Surely some more touch ups could be done, and I think I am just expecting some good news on this article very soon for now (I kinda learned that "less is more" in the world of Wikipedia and I think my foremost goal rn is to get it approved). Also I would like to keep all contents on Song's personal Wiki as solo work-centred as possible. Once the article is in the main space I am looking forward to adding on more stuff.

Meanwhile I will keep an eye on Song's & the group's updates, as well as any citable English language sources (which I struggled the most to find for my initial few attempts. I believe in this latest version I have included all that could be referenced from reliable western press/media) that comes up in later times.

I would be more than happy to collaborate with you in the future. Please let me know if you need anything. Delighted to make your acquaintance as well. Thanks again. Cheers. Makimakisora (talk) 04:51, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Gentle Notice: We can't use certain external links

Hello, Makimakisora, thank you for your reply to the above conversation! I wish to gently inform you that your contribution to Song Yaxuan was undone because it constituted as #10 on links normally to be avoided. Usually, XLinkBot, catches these sort of mistakes but they're malfunctioning at the moment. I hope this notice helps. 😃 FourPaws (talk) 13:35, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for noting that! One more thing is that I was looking through some admitted Chinese artists' and entertainers' Wiki page, most of them have their "Endorsements and ambassadorships" as a separate column. I am not quite sure on that. Let me know. Thanks :D Makimakisora (talk) 07:26, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Good observation. While accepted articles are examples to look at, they should not inform your own judgement since accepted articles are prone to problems too. In regards to your concern, Wikipedia does not have a central government/organization and functions purely from spontaneous order. So every article will have variances in details like this. This is partially due to several guidelines are mutually applicable. In this case for Song Yaxuan, we should follow the style for biographies, musicians/artists, and list of works among others. I'd recommend we turn the current subsection for endorsements into a new section or create a new section titled "Other ventures" and place one subsection for endorsements and another for ambassadors if this is the case. I overlooked this because Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and we would have to turn the table into a paragraph that describes each endorsement and the notability and relevance of each. The substance of the existing article is your work and I've largely only edited to meet Wikipedia standards so this is your call. I'll be around to prevent/remedy any errors. FourPaws (talk) 02:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Yes that makes sense. I will have a second thought on it for now. -MS Makimakisora (talk) 06:00, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi FourPaws. Now there has been a new heading named "other ventures" created for housing the fashion activities and endorsements. If you could kindly take a look if there is any written errors or citation issues. Please feel free to add anything not covered as well. I am listing all the crucial events out chronologically. Given that the Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, all the endorsement should indeed be elaborated according to their notability. At the same time I am keeping in mind that all content must be written from a NPOV, I am simply citing/translating original words from each brand and announcement. As a result, some of the contents are still just a list-out, but in full sentence with detailed date specified. Thanks. MS Makimakisora (talk) 07:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Excellent work and research! I do notice that the majority of the section only mentions the band as a whole (Teens in Times) and not Song Yaxuan specifically. At least from what you wrote, it seems those parts belong in an English article for TNT instead. Since you're autoconfirmed you do have the privilege to submit articles directly to the main space instead of this review process. Wikipedia only has this system so random people can't cause harm. Other than very minor things like following the guidelines for dates and numbers and hyperlinking to English articles when appropriate there is nothing wrong about the substance written. Another observation is that there is a slight variance in English. I understand that you may have learned a different version of English. Since I use American English, we follow the serial comma convention AKA the Oxford Comma. I may be wrong here, but I have not seen you use it in the article. Whether we decide on keeping the serial comma or not, we must be consistent throughout the entire article. Though, I highly recommend we follow American English convention because most of English readers on Wikipedia are American and they like to read in American English. Generally articles with strong national ties triumph over other dialects of English otherwise authors should always keep in mind who their audience will be. Again, great work! FourPaws (talk) 18:58, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. Yes I guess Canadian English might alter a little bit in terms of writing convention and punctuations from the American version. AP style didn't require a serial comma, and perhaps that's what I was used to be written in. I will add a serial comma to the all the contents needed. Hope you could still be around to catch any writing bugs.

I am trying to figure out how the page could be moved to the main space. Thanks for mentioning that, and I am sure it will definitely safe much time for the draft to be published publicly. I just would like to make sure the article could still be edited after any "moving" happens. Please let me know if you can't edit after it has been successfully moved. Thanks again. MS Makimakisora (talk) 06:58, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I need to clarify - as far as I'm aware, if the article is submitted to AfC then it has to be reviewed and published (move to the mainspace) by a designated reviewer. Otherwise this is just a "manual move" according to the instructions attached to the template. I believe the article's name was just changed and not the actually mechanics behind the article because the system still reads the article as a draft and that is why Song Yaxuan is not showing up in the search bar. It is only articles created after you are autoconfirmed that can be moved to the mainspace in full. But I may be wrong as I'm not a reviewer and I don't think I can do anything for this fact other than manual revert the edit where you moved the article. We many need expert attention/help. In case you're worrying, until is it certain that this article is approved and published to the mainspace with other Wikipedians making edits, I'm not going to abandon this project. Hey at least Google has found the article now, lol :) FourPaws (talk) 11:15, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi FourPaws. Thanks for the message. Yes I noticed that as well after the move. My interpretation is that as an auto-confirmed user, I do have the right to manually move an article to the main space. And to fully achieve that is to "remove the {{AfC submission}} template and any other AFC-related templates at the top of the page". By doing so the action would fall under line "Removing the template because the article was moved into article space by a non-reviewer, but should be in article space (i.e. it is an acceptable page)" in our case.

Song Yaxuan is now showing up on both Google/other search engine and the Wikipedia search bar. Under Category:Pending AfC submissions where I used to see status/category of this article, this article has been removed. I am understanding for now if to remove all AFC-related templates, the page would look exactly the same as any other mainspace articles (ie. the peer reviewed articles) on wikipedia. However, it means that this article would not be formally reviewed.

I am considering two options for now, 1. to ensure the quality of this page, I undo the move action and Song Yaxuan will be reverted back to Draft:Song Yaxuan. The new Draft:Song Yaxuan will again go through the AfC admitted process and be submitted for a peer review. And 2. to perform the actions as mentioned above (removing the AfC template).

My only concern is now if the article go through the AfC submission again and wait for a peer review, would it start over the entire process? The queue up is showing backlog, and from my previous experience, a resubmitted article will have to be lined up for at least 2-3 months for a review. Is it worth doing if the article has an adequate content structured and written already? Would there be any crucial difference between an AfC approved article and a non-reviewer published article?

Please let me know if my insight on the current situation is somewhat accurate, and we shall discuss further actions towards this article. Your help is, and has always been appreciated. Many thanks :D MS Makimakisora (talk) 21:52, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Everything's been resolved (see message below). FourPaws (talk) 09:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Congratulations: Song Yaxuan is an official article! Featured on Song Yaxuan's Google bio box!

A chocolate chip cookie!

Here have a cookie you earned it! You showed your enthusiasm for both Song Yaxuan and Wikipedia by creating an article before anything else. It takes much determination to work on an article on your own for months but the fruit of your labor has not gone unrecognized! Thank you for your unique contribution to both Wikipedia and the internet. I hope you continue to be proud of your accomplishment and stay with Wikipedia (even just a few edits a year keeps the place running). Sincerely, FourPaws (talk) 09:53, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

I would like to say a very big thank you for the time and effort you have dedicated to Song Yaxuan on behalf of the Little Conchs🙏🏻 The speedy progress would never happen without your help.

Song's Chinese fandom has acknowledged the good news that his English Wikipedia page has been successfully published. This is the perfect gift for him to celebrate his great achievement in Gaokao🎉

I am discussing with the fandom right now on choosing a good cover photo for the page's infobox. We are about to finalize our decision, and I will be setting off to resolve any copyright/ licence issue.

Again, I truly appreciate all your helps, hope you could still be around for any future maintenance of Song Yaxuan. I am looking forward to making your acquaintance in the future!

Cheers,

MS Makimakisora (talk) 01:38, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Draft for Eng TNT article proposal

Hi, Makimakisora, I have recently submited a request for undeletion for the Draft:Teens in Times. According to public logs someone named Makinosora created the draft over a year ago in Jan of 2021. It was then deleted by our friend Explicit a little more than 6 months later in July 2021. Because of the remarkable similarity between the aforementioned person's name and your name, I was wondering if you're the same person? If so, then I would like to help you finish the draft this time. FourPaws (talk) 05:13, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello FourPaws, thanks for the message. Yes it was my original account, however I do not have the access to that account anymore. I made a very preliminary attempt back then and for now I am not really free to edit the draft for TNT's English page. I would be more than happy to provide minor maintenance edits to the page, yet I am no longer able to dedicate much time for the writing of the entire page or any of other members' eng page.

Thanks for the invitation, please let me know if there are any quick translation, content proofread or outreach help you would need, I will be very happy to make your acquaintance on those. Also, the contents for TNT eng article which I wrote before are totally free to be used in any future drafts. Thank you. MS Makimakisora (talk) 23:00, 24 July 2022 (UTC)