User talk:Laualoha/Aloha For All Discussion -- ctd./for Jere Only

This page is for a discussion between me & Jere only. If you are not Jere, I ask respectfully that you leave this discussion, which is part of my user talk page, now. Mahalo nui!--Laualoha 06:24, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Laualoha: Jere, I'm gonna step away from our argument for a moment to address something. if this is too personal, I apologize. I sincerely mean no offense, and I hope you believe me. You can delete this post if you like, it's okay. But I must ask this question: who beat you up? Who abused you, when you lived here? To me it is obvious that something happened, and it was not right. Whoever it was had a problem, and they dumped it on you. That is a very serious wrong, and it's hard to address anything without a really strong emotional reaction until that is made right. --Laualoha 22:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Jere: I'm more than happy to share personal information with you, Laualoha - you've been honest and open with me, and I would return the favor. The people who beat me up when I was a kid were Reese Ajifu, Peter Lee, Daryl Yasunari, some random black kid on the bus, some random vietnamese kid in Makakilo, a couple of haoles at Punahou, and this one kid in Japanese school who I completely forget the name of, over the course of a decade, but mostly in elementary school.

Now, insofar as how this has affected me personally, it certainly had something to do with my adolescent fascination with weapons, martial arts, and revenge. As I grew up, I made peace with these feelings, though, and have found forgiveness in my heart for my abusers. They were ignorant, racist, and I hope that they have learned better since then.

So while I thank you for your concern, I assure you, my emotions on this matter are more than settled and at peace - the best revenge, I found, is living well, and I am very very happy with my family and friends.

I think what you see on my part as honest passion, confuses you because you believe so strongly in your side, you cannot imagine anyone honestly coming to the opposite conclusion. I respect that, and understand your confusion. When I say that I'm only in this because I am a strong believer in the futility of racial categories and boundaries, and am dedicated to the idea that all people should be treated equally, it is because intellectually, that is the only non-hypocritical position I believe is possible. The opposite of racism is not more racism in the other direction - it is the removal of all racism.

I fear for the intellectual growth you have yet to experience, and challenge, because it will be very difficult for you to let go of the race-based pride and protectionism you've integrated into your personality. It will be very difficult for you to come to grips with the intellectual realization that any form of racism is bad, even if it seems benign - especially given the strong emotional attachment you already have to the idea that you are, at your core, the representative of one specific race. I know it would help alleviate your confusion if you could believe that somehow I was abused by kanaka maoli and I'm lashing out at them (I'm not sure if this is your experience, but most kanaka maoli I've ever known are kind, gentle and caring), but I'm afraid it just isn't the case. I am an honest man, with honest convictions that race-based discrimination in any form is an evil thing.

I wish you the best with your struggle, and am more than happy to help in any way I can. Aloha. --JereKrischel 23:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Laualoha: Mahalo nui. I appreciate your honesty a lot. I know it sounds like I'm implying that your point of view comesfrom abuse, but this isn't what I meant, or what I ever thought. I can plainly see that your conclusions are well-researched and founded on a commitment to principles that you hold strongly in your desire for a better world. However, in all 'oia'i'o, there is sometimes a rather bitter edge, and sometimes some power dynamics which I often see in people who have been abused, and so I wondered, because it is easier for me to understand when communication goes bad if I understand that aspect. I'm just being honest, okay? I do not assess your viewpoint because of it, only some of the communication issues, if anything, and even for those it is not my place to know which communications are being affected by them, or how. I am very glad that you have forgiven these people, too. However, if you change your mind and wanna tell them off, I'll go with you! I may be a peace person, but if there's one thing I can't stand, it's bullying!

As for myself, you are certainly correct that I have much intellectual growth ahead of me, because growing intellectually is what I love doing, and I hope to keep doing it throughout my whole life and beyond. As far as the race thing, I think you may be kind of mistaken. Those are your words, not mine. Ancestors are important, but I think we may see the ancestry thing differently. For one thing, I believe very strongly in the power of hanai (real kine, not on-the-fly). On my haole side, I have three adopted cousins. My family over there are big-time old Californian settlers, and my cousin was contacted about possible membership in the Daughters of California, a very hi-makamaka group, which is kinda up my cousin's alley (that's, um, how she is...). Now they are researching whether she qualifies or not, based on her adoption. I'm ready to storm up there and kick their ass personally if they don't accept her, because I think she is far more qualified to speak for our ancestors than I am, even if her blood DNA did not come from them, because of the fact that she has lived and breathed that place they were from and the culture they were part of, and the values that were important to them. Blood is one way of passing the spirit, and it's an important way, but it's not the only way. Do we agree on that?

Now, as far as "protectionism" goes, you are certainly correct that I'm kind of stuck in that to a certain degree at the moment, and I sure hope to get out of it! However, I hope that you can also see that I'm kinda jammed in this situation at the moment because of the attacks I'm involved in fending off with the rest of the Kanaka Maoli population. The battle is rough here, and I'm forced to take a position. Because leading these battles is not my kuleana, I stand behind people who say things I do not always agree with, although I'm not afraid to express myself on these, either. You know, I wrote a goodbye letter to Kamehameha Schools after 10 years there, literally telling them to fuck themselves (I wrote it in typing class, which kinda explains my lack of evolution in this skill!). My feelings haven't changed that much, and I'm kinda proud of it. And yet I will fight for their existence, and their ability to help kids (which they do, when they're not torturing them), all the way. The Kanaka Maoli situation is serious, Jere. I have worked as a native healer's assistant and as an MPH, and lemme tell you, injustice has some very real and very ugly physical forms, which cause lots of suffering, lots of death. Yes, people need to take responsibility for themselves, but when people are as downtrodden as many I've seen, it's arrogant to expect this from them. And losing their culture (which the perpetuation of injustice often results in) leads to loss of life, health and aloha.

I know that you kind of see me fighting against the rights of others, but that is not how I see it at all. Rights are not a pizza that need to be divided up into "I get more, so you get less". Indigenous rights exist alongside and as part of human rights, which everyone on Earth inherently shares. The well-being of the indigenous peoples of the world is very important for everyone, because these cultures are the repository for knowledge of the particular areas we live in, knowledge that we all need to survive. This knowledge cannot by its nature be learned in a book. It has to be lived, felt and practiced. The rights do not need to be hard-line exclusive, but when they are under attack, they become so. The whole thing becomes black-and-white, like a plebiscite. This is not how we should be, but it is how we become under pressure.

Now, I have one more opinion to express, even though I may pay for it later. And I hope you're not offended, because I admit that I am overstepping myself again, but I have to say this: Jere, I really think you should come home already. There are more dimensions to the things that we are talking about than what you can see from over there; I know you have experienced a lot here, but (I know I'm pushing it, sorry) I honestly think you need some kupuna time, dude. You obviously love Hawai'i very passionately, and being away from home causes you pain. I'm not saying I think this pain is the basis for your assertions, but it may contribute to your getting locked into positions that are less flexible than they could or should be. You are a brilliant man, Jere Krischel, and with a little more flexibility, balance, and some time learning from and getting abused by a few good kupuna and carting around their stuff through situations you don't want to be in, you could really be a great man. That's just my opinion. If I've offended you in any way, I'm really sorry. But I do think you need to come home. Think about it, okay?

Mahalo & aloha, --Laualoha 02:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Jere: Mahalo nui loa, Lauhaloha, for your very meaningful and insightful words. I'll be brief here, but only because I'm sure we'll talk more about it later.

1) I wholeheartedly agree with you about spirit being passed on by more ways than just blood. Hearing you say that greatly lifts my hopes and strengthens my respect for you.

2) I most certainly will come home one day, even if that day is not soon. For whatever reason, no matter how hard it may be to be away from my homeland, my kuleana is to live and work away from Hawaii for the time being. When my work is complete, I know I will find my way home. Hopefully, in the meantime, on the occasions when I do get to visit, I can get the kupuna time I need :).

Mahalo again for your moving words, --JereKrischel 06:48, 9 September 2007 (UTC)