User talk:Kenessey Aurél

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, ask me on my talk page. You can also type {{help me}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Jdcomix (talk) 13:24, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of User:Kenessey Aurél

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. A tag has been placed on User:Kenessey Aurél requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section U5 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to consist of writings, information, discussions, or activities not closely related to Wikipedia's goals. Please note that Wikipedia is not a free web hosting service. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Jdcomix (talk) 13:24, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Contesting the Deletion of This Page

I believe that the page merits retention, not simply because of its current content, but because of the potential it holds for growth and enrichment.

In contesting this deletion, I am not merely defending a single page, but advocating for the ongoing process of knowledge refinement and the democratic nature of information sharing. I urge you to consider the broader implications of removing this page and to allow it the opportunity to fulfill its role in our collective intellectual journey.

Should there be areas where the page requires enhancement, I am committed to contributing constructively to its development in accordance with Wikipedia’s guidelines and policies.

Thank you!

Aurel Kenessey Kenessey Aurél (talk) 13:37, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The page has now been deleted. There are only so many things you're allowed to have on your user page, so I'd suggest reviewing those guidelines briefly. If you want to contribute a page to Wikipedia, you should go ahead and write an article rather than just putting it on your user page; but on the other hand if it's not something that can really be a Wikipedia article, then it probably doesn't belong on your user page either. AntiDionysius (talk) 13:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Báthory family (of the Aba clan)

The article Báthory family (of the Aba clan) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Seems to be based on original research. The sources do not support the claim of this being a separate family, or no secondary sources are presented alongside claims of this. Elaborated on talk page.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Hijérovīt | ^þⰁ_č 15:45, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear [Hijerovit],

Thank you for your message and for the opportunity to clarify the distinctions between the two notable Báthory families in Hungarian history. However, I would like to present further evidence and academic references that underscore the separate identities and historical significance of these two families.

Distinction Between the two Báthory Families

1. Báthory Family from the Gutkeled Clan:

- This lineage traces its origins to two Swabian brothers, Gut and Kelad, who migrated to Hungary from the Stof castle, which is associated with either Staufen im Breisgau or Hohenstaufen in Württemberg.

- The Gutkeled Báthory family is traditionally divided into three branches: Somlyó, Ecsed, and Szaniszlófi. Each of these branches contributed to the political and social landscape of Hungary over the centuries, with significant figures such as Báthory István (Stephen Báthory), who served as the Prince of Transylvania and was elected King of Poland.

2. Báthory of Gagy Family from the Aba Clan:

- The second major Báthory lineage is linked to the Aba clan, descending from King Samuel Aba. This family also produced notable figures, including Miklós Báthory of Gágy (known also as Miklós of Siroka or Miklós Gereven) who was a vojvode of Transylvania from 1342-1344. [a. Herzoge. | Siebmacher: Wappenbuch | Reference Library (arcanum.com)] - The distinct genealogical [Archaeogenetic analysis revealed East Eurasian paternal origin to the Aba royal family of Hungary | bioRxiv] and historical narratives of the Aba Báthory family further illustrate their separate identity from the Gutkeled Báthory family.

Supporting Academic Sources

I would like to emphasize that the article under deletion also includes multiple academic sources and archive materials that provide evidence for the distinction between these families. Some of these sources include:

1. Acta Historica Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae, Volume 45, pages 115-120. This academic article explores the Hungarian noble lineages, including the Báthory family of Gágy, and their role in the political history of the region.

2. - [Báthori család. (Gágyi). | Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai | Kézikönyvtár (arcanum.com)]

3. -[Báthory-Szőnyi Tibor: Noblesse oblige, Báthory-Szőnyi Tibor | Magyar Nemzeti Múzeum Központi Könyvtár (MNMKK) (hnm.hu) ]

4. -[Sirokai család. (Sirokai †) | Nagy Iván: Magyarország családai | Reference Library (arcanum.com)]

5. -[GAGYI LÁSZLÓ SÍRKÖVE. | Turul 1883-1950 | Kézikönyvtár (arcanum.com)]

6. -[Siebmacher's grosses und allgemeines Wappenbuch 1856-1961 | Arcanum Újságok]

7. -[Báthori II. v. Gágy. | Siebmacher: Wappenbuch | Kézikönyvtár (arcanum.com)]

8. -[Báthory I., v. Gagy. | Siebmacher: Wappenbuch | Kézikönyvtár (arcanum.com)]

It is essential to recognize that until the two families are adequately distinguished in separate articles, any encyclopedic information regarding their contributions and historical contexts risks being conflated, potentially leading to misinformation. This is particularly evident in related articles, such as the one on Aba (gens), which inaccurately attributes aspects of the Aba Báthory family to the Gutkeled Báthory family.

I respectfully urge the administrators and editors involved in the deletion decision to review the sources and context provided. A comprehensive understanding of Hungarian history, particularly regarding noble lineages, is vital for maintaining the accuracy and integrity of the information presented on Wikipedia.

[Kenessey Aurél] Kenessey Aurél (talk) 17:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removed deletion template after addressing the issues raised: clarified the distinction between the two Báthory families, added academic sources, and explained the rationale on the talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenessey Aurél (talk • contribs)

The specific issue here is that you've written an article that is based on original research. The sources you supply do not affirm your claim of an entirely separate family, but instead attempt to link the Báthory, "a prominent dynasty of late medieval Hungary and Poland" (Varga et al.), to the Aba clan ("…we lack data in the relation of the Abas and the Báthorys…"). I suppose you haven't seen the discussion that was started on Talk:Báthory family (of the Aba clan); I'm linking it to you here so you have the opportunity to participate and see exactly the issues I take with the article, as I'll nominate it for deletion on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Hijérovīt | ^þⰁ_č 18:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your feedback and involvement in maintaining Wikipedia's standards. I understand that the history of Hungary, particularly regarding noble families like the Aba clan and the Báthory lineages, can be complex. I have provided detailed sources and evidence to clarify the distinctions, and I'm happy to answer any specific questions about these families. I encourage all editors to review the historical sources provided, as they support the existence of distinct Báthory families, and help ensure that the content is accurate and reliable. Kenessey Aurél (talk) 19:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]