User talk:Keith D/Archive 9

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Keith D. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 5

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WP Banner Lincolnshire

Thanks keith, I found it on a random search of Lincolnshire, Just after id left a message on the WP Lincolnshire founders page asking if there was one yet !! So I added it ot a few pages as a start and to get some interest as nobody had signed up (for project) from when Id found the project page a few weeks ago, and added it to UK message board list. I was going to ask you about setting up the rest of it but servers have been a bit intermittent today. Is the assessments sub page just a copy of the master page copied to the project space ? I was just going to add it to the main towns + other high importance articles + the companies that Im interested in once ive cleared up a few outstanding Sheffield articles to assess. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 21:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Just take a copy of the Yorkshire one, and change Yorkshire to Lincolnshire. You may have some bits at the bottom to remove about articles for reassessment. I have set the Lincolnshire one up the same as the Yorkshire one. I think Yorkshire was the basis for the introduction of assessment for the Sheffield project as well. Keith D (talk) 21:21, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

OK I'll do that, yes I think Warofdreams used Yorkshire, as the banner initially linked to the Yorkshire project page. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 22:31, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Keith for fixing my bad typing (again) with Project page Wikiproject > WikiProject (was going to ask ypu to fix it later when you are less buisy) with Wiki 0.7 work. Any sugestions on subject cats to Tag first (done main towns + Companies list), What are considered Top Priority subjects ?. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 16:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Got it right second attempt, I see the bot has already picked it up, I was looking at he bot instructions to see what had happened when I spotted the error. I would suggest some of the geographic features like rivers, villages etc are probably the next set though cannot see many top priority ones. On people there is always Margaret Thatcher who was from Grantham. Would be good if you could drop the Yorkshire template on to the Sheffield ones while you are working round them. Keith D (talk) 16:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Added Trent, Lincoln Cathdral and Thatcher so will look at Cat: rivers in Lincs and cat: villages in Lincs or similar then. Thought if I Get a few Nown article may get some editors (possibly ? ).

Had not dropped WP Yorks on most Sheffield articles as didn't whant to over tagg, but can add them as i go, but have assessed (helped) 98% now (6 football ones left) on Sheffield till I find more to tag. Do you want WP Yorks rated as well, or do you want to 'see them' yourself ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 17:08, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

You can rate them if you wish, I will spot them when the bot adds them to the list, though it appears to be running less frequently at the moment. I just need to keep an eye out for the increase to see when to regenerate the watchlist then we can keep an eye on the changes. Keith D (talk) 17:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

(Indent out) Thanks for note on tagging Keith, been doing Derbyshire today (yesterday) I'll have a look at the Lincs list then- BulldozerD11 (talk) 01:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

class ratings

Keith in your opinion is the class rating parrameter assigned by editos 'Global' in that all project boxes on a page should have the same value, as obiously the importance / priorty is project dependant. I've just had (after rating loads of articles over last few days) had BG7 say they should be changed in all Project boxes, yet loads had them had different values in multiple projects already, and if it should be one value then template should be structured to share value / auto update ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 22:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Personally I only update projects I am involved with and leave others alone, apart from GA and FA where they are externally rated and I set all projects the same. The problem comes of setting them all the same is some projects are not using C-class and others have specific criteria that must be passed before it reaches certain levels such as a B-class. Keith D (talk) 22:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

That was the veiw i took (unless obiously way out of date stubs/starts) I canot find anything saying one way or the other at WP edit team 1.0 page or on assessments page. but it does say importance/ priorty will differ between projects. Some were updte way before C was introduced, and others have ben left at stub by bot taging (WikiProject Business mainly). I'll leave BG7 to it, as plenty more articles to look at. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 23:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Another quiery on the ratings scheme, when you have some spare time, would you have a look at Trent and Mersey Canal as this has been rated B by waterways, but has miminal refs I'm trying to get abetter feel for what makes a B article as I reassess some of the other Derbyshire ones from Start to C and am trying to judge what makes a B . - Thanks againe - BulldozerD11 (talk) 21:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Definitely a C class with only a single reference there is no way it can be a B class. There is some layout problems that need fixing like external links coming before the references and the stacking of the edit links around the photos but they are minor. I would probably move the upright photo from the middle of the set as well as looks out of place.

The start rating from UKGeo is before the introduction of C class and they have not re-rated the article yet, but the waterways rating of B is earlier than that so someone is way out with the ratings. Keith D (talk) 23:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There is several I looked at that come under Derbyshire all at B with minimal refs as the main thing that struck me, as well as the layout issues with all the footer sections jumbled up. For B i need to read the WP:MOS in detail, but the (expanded) Assessment Class table has the basic guidance outlined, which id been gauging against and why id asked for an opinion on a couple of articles as a check. For Derbyshire i was going to go through the Start ones looking for C's as alot were assessesed before C came in or have had work done since looking at dates in the history / diff between then and now. - Thanks again - BulldozerD11 (talk) 01:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

(Indent out) Keith could you give me an opinion on River Trent as its a B -class, , I've changed footnotes to References, re jigged the order and added EL section, and added aditional {fact} tags as lower section with variouse claims is un referenced. What does it need to move up to A class in your opininon (its an article that rated High on several projects), so if it only needs a few tweaks its a good target.

The ibox says its in Yorkshire as well, but my OS maps a few years old and has S,yorks stoping short, and the confluence with the Ouse being in Humberside, which was re jigged, with Goole now in East Yorkshire, (on WP) so boundary appears as a few 100 m of river bank on the Goole micro map. - Thanks - BulldozerD11 (talk) 11:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I tend to not be so good at the higher levels, I do not really use A-class, in the recent changes it needs a review by more than one person. I will have a look at the article later but B-class is normally followed by a GA review, though some people like to have a peer review first. I find the peer reviews are often a waste of time at this stage and better suited to pre FA nomination. Keith D (talk) 12:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

From a Yorkshire point of view it is only the East Riding of Yorkshire that it touches. It forms the boundary between the East Riding of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire for a very short distance around Blacktoft Sands. May be we should put in the Category: Rivers of the East Riding of Yorkshire and the project template. Keith D (talk) 15:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the article I would think that by fixing the missing references and a copy-edit would enable it to be nominated for a GA review. Though I am uncertain why Hull is mentioned in the infobox as it is the Humber by then, unless they are attempting to indicate where it goes, may be a problem if you get a picky reviewer who knows the geography. Back to Sheffield which is doing my head in. Keith D (talk) 16:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Keith, I dident tag as Yorkshire as was not sure (as above) on Boundaries. Harkey Lodger posted a link to rivers guidance notes which are a bit long (complicated), but from a quick look it may have a issue with the list of places (order) and stuff like tributaries, as well as refs which I spoted first off. Good look with Sheffield Article, its abit light on some of the History / Economy IIRC some stuffs left to look up in the links instead of a brief note (but then getting a balanced overviews hard). PS Thanks for joining Lincs Project (the Low, mid, high, & top prioity cats have emptied out, but the tables not updated yet they have just disapeared so may need to talk to Editorial V1.0 team) ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 19:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I will look at the categories later and see what I can see. The problem with Sheffield is the article is attempting to cover the City of Sheffield authority area and the city itself and I cannot work out what is what. Though it is a featured article it is not easy to understand and I cannot work out the context for which is which. It is also very repetitive. Though I am not changing the content just the formatting, dabs and the like. Keith D (talk) 19:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I have deleted the old categories now and the bot appears to have picked up the change as the stats are looking OK after tonight's update. Keith D (talk) 22:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - October 2008

Delivered October 2008 by ENewsBot. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an * before your username on the Project Mainpage.

→ Please direct all enquiries to the WikiProject talk page.
→ This newsletter/release was delivered by ENewsBot · 11:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Hebden Review

Thanks for reviewing the Hebden page, Keith. Langcliffe (talk) 17:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Importance / Priorty Parameter

The use of the term Priority in the project banners is slightly confusing as the Table has the tern importance and several projects use Importance as the term and the internal codes for that. Whats the Reason Priority was used on Yorkshire (and by default Sheffield & Lincs), as Companies, Derbyshire and Trains use Importance In and On the banner / template. If im Tagging a few I just Copy a existing { {WikiPro------|----|---|--|} } one and delete the existing values, as soon got borred typing out the lot (especialy derbyshires with 5 extra bits + nested on some pages. Thats why i now batch tag, espeicaly if adding other projects as well. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you read it wrong or I got it round the wrong way. These projects use importance, the person tagging has put priority in the ones they have tagged. Unsure as to why there is a mixture of usage across projects I would have thought that it was easier to have a standard name for all projects. I think at some stage the standardisation project will look at that, they are currently changing all the template names to WikiProject X rather than have the different formats of template name. For example Cycling project changed to WikiProject cycling. Keith D (talk) 10:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I Probaly was not clear in trying to explain it but the Banner when Displayed Shows the term PRIORTY on the face of it.

(Please disable after veiwing, as if class set to NA it will not display importance)

As Shown above - BulldozerD11 (talk) 11:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I see what you mean, may be we should clarify the template some time. The last change to the template on October 1st has not managed to get round all of the articles yet so the job queue must be struggling. Keith D (talk) 11:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed the Lincs template, and assemments page terminology. BUT have not fixed the actual categories it references to (so still adds to Cat------ Priority) as will need moving/renaming and if i point to new ones for Importance ones it would leave 2 sets operating. (done before it needs its transcluded into hundreds of pages) (must fix my spell checker as well on this m/c) - BulldozerD11 (talk) 14:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately you cannot rename categories the new ones have to be created and the old ones deleted. Unsure how the bot handles double named things. I may find out when it runs next as I have a duplicate of list class on the Yorkshire project at the moment. Depends if the bot runs before the job queue gets processed. Looks like priority is out of favour as most projects have importance in the categories, I guess it was that way for the Yorkshire project when I got involved. Keith D (talk) 15:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

So if I change the Categories in the template the list will regenerate under the new name from the category code in the template. The old Categories can then be deleted by CFD request ? . Just the Bot generating the table then to worry about. If you didn't have to tell it the Categories existed to run an update of newly created projects tables the Editorial team or bot team must monitor all Cats that follow the basic layout ??? Or have i missed something ?

You first need to create the categories, copy from existing, then change the template. The articles will in time move over as the requests get through the job queue. Should be quicker for Lincolnshire as there are not that many articles. When the old categories are empty give me a nudge and I can delete them. Keith D (talk) 17:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Think ive got it sorted set up Top,High, Mid, Low, & Unknown cats for importance using the code from the priorty ones you created. tested by raising grantham to top and its in the new one. The enbeded master cat link will transfer it to the main cat (Lincs stood out in the list as priorty instead of importance). Need to fix the project page now. The serves will take time to up date the pages i suppose. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 21:21, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Its been 4 days on the Yorkshire change and still not complete yet. It works on first come, first served from what I can gather, unless it is something small. Keith D (talk) 21:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Have now made a user box now for Lincs, Just need some participants / members, note you havent signed up yet, would you like to join up ? ,. The portal link do you think it best to create a holding page (Under Construction etc) and a redirect link back to the project page ? - BulldozerD11 (talk) 17:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering about a user box for the project. On the portal I would have a word with user:Kaly99 who appears to have set up several portals, including the Yorkshire one, she may set up a basic one for you. Keith D (talk) 17:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the pointer on which parameter to use with the wp lincolnshire template. I'll go through the articles I tagged and put it right, and look at a few more. Thanks TheRetroGuy (talk) 18:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia DVD Version 0.7 and WPYorks

What are the current priorities, in your opinion, please? I've had a crack at some geography and refs for some articles. Is there anything howling out to be done elsewhere?--Harkey (talk) 19:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, glad to have you back on board. Currently working my way backwards through the list with copy-edit passes to each one, think there are 17 left to process, currently just started Sheffield Wednesday F.C.. I would take a look at User:SelectionBot/0.7/XYZ-1#Yorkshire and see which ones I have not got a version against and have a go at fixing any problems on them. I think Leeds is going to be a particular problem one with the users who are POV pushing on that one at the moment. Once I have a version for each one I hope there will be time to check out the later changes but we appear to the the only project on that page to have done any selection as yet! Keith D (talk) 19:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.--Harkey (talk) 19:51, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

OK.I'll start at the top with ASDA. Arrrrgh!!!--Harkey (talk) 21:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Struggling a bit with Bradford but will persevere! Just glanced at Doncaster. Would it be acceptable to create a list article of the "famous people" then link to it, please?--Harkey (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I would think so as most of the other place articles have this. I see that James axed the short list from the Yorkshire article that I thought was rather useful but unreferenced. I have given up on changes and now just copy-editing, checking all the links go to articles and the external links are still valid but that takes time getting through about 1 or 2 a day. Just started Scarborough. Keith D (talk) 10:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Scarborough has a list in article but I do not intend removing it at the moment. Keith D (talk) 10:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it depends on knowing how "Famous" is famous in the particular location and whether the information can reasonably be condensed or expanded into prose.I wouldn't know who was famous in sport etc., anyway. :-)--Harkey (talk) 10:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) while you are there - any idea who "John Fairgray Sharpin" that is mentioned in the Scarborough article is? Keith D (talk) 10:53, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I think he was a mate of my dads, uncles, cousins, (twice removed) friend :-) Getting daft now!! Seriously though! Looks as though the text has been "borrowed" - without reading on. "The history and heritage the finest of hotels in Scarborough". proof.crownspahotel.com.--Harkey (talk) 11:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Back again - I've done as much as I can to ASDA and Bradford. Maybe you could give them a quick glance and put them on the list. There's strange red text in the refs list for Bradford. Anyway upwards and onwards, as they say. Doncaster, here I come.--Harkey (talk) 19:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Corrected above mentioned red text - it was a red link in the ref.--Harkey (talk) 21:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

(reset) I've also tried to clean up Yorkshire a bit at a time “Softly, softly, catchee monkey”. The Sports section and Lead will, I think, always be open to POV but its a lot more toned down and encyclopedic now, I hope--Harkey (talk) 11:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC).

I spent some time on Yorkshire - especially the references switching from date to accessdate and fixing the dead links. I will have to pick-up later version though unsure about the section James deleted. When we have finished on the DVD work all the changes in the Yorkshire article need filtering down to the spin-off articles that were created from it! By the way I have taken a version of Asda. Keith D (talk) 11:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed you had done a fair bit of work on Yorkshire. I've gone as far as I can with Doncaster but it's a bit short on refs. Most of the research is from a couple of books.When the DVD work is over I'd like to try something with Kingston upon Hull again. I think we struck a bit unlucky last time at GA. Now for a trip to erm...Huddersfield!--Harkey (talk) 12:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, just started on Bradford but will have to wait until later as going out now. On the Hull front your comment yesterday on list of people reminded me that when we were doing Hull I moved some of the people off and started a list for Hull in my sandbox, not much there yet but must get back to it or at least move it to article space. I also started a list of schools but never loaded that so if we go back to Hull then I can dig that out as well. By the way are you literary inclined in any way, I asked on the project page while you were away and got no response, for a GA stab? Keith D (talk) 12:27, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll have a stab at anything, used to be a headteacher so did the lot at times!! When I looked at Huddersfield, it seems to have been maintained really well by User:Richard Harvey so I'll drop him a note and a copy of the last newsletter as I don't want to mess anything up.--Harkey (talk) 12:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again Keith, I've been doing a bit of vandal patrol as I didn't want to start anything big. The power has been going down periodically.I had another little tweak at Yorkshire. Holding my breath to see what happens! I can't see that there was much wrong with having the list of notables in the article. They all seem to have been born before 1972. If I told my next door neighbour that Yorkshire no longer existed I'm sure he'd have me put away, but I do see the point that James is trying to make. I just wish we could agree on some wording to ensure that the cultural loyalties people feel are recognised and catered for. The military obviously are taking advantage (Yorkshire Regiment). Its probably worth another regiment to them to have such loyalty. Anyway, I digress, back to work. I'll take a look at Halifax tomorrow, leaving Huddersfield alone for a bit.--Harkey (talk) 21:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Just 11 to do now, 1 per day to hit the target. I do not see much activity by other projects so not sure what is going on. I see you have skipped the Football articles, which will have to be tackled some time. Keith D (talk) 21:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

PS What was the literary thing you mentioned?--Harkey (talk) 21:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Back in August a user thought that Anne Brontë may be a Good/Featured article, as I spotted a few problems I did a copy-edit pass through and suggested they nominate it. The user has not made any further edits since then, so I was looking for someone to put Anne Brontë through GA. I do not know if it meets standards for biographies but looks OK to me. I could do it myself but I could not answer any questions that may come up at GA on content. I did have a thought later that may be we should get all of the family up to GA status but that's not for now. Keith D (talk) 21:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

(Reset) I'm willing to give Anne Brontë a go. My specialist subject on Mastermind would be the Wickes Catalogue 1970 to Date but I'm sure there is enough grey matter left to tackle something more demanding. (PS. OK. I'll try to copyedit Bradford City AFC. It'll be a good test of whether it's understandable to a footbally naive reader.)--Harkey (talk) 21:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

We could go for an article on that but I do not think it would last that long. I managed to do the 2 Sheffield football ones while I was passing but on to Rotherham. Keith D (talk) 22:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Working Man's Barnstar

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For your tireless assessment of articles for the Yorkshire WikiProject. I can almost guarantee who will assess any article I tag the project. JD554 (talk) 09:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Keith D (talk) 11:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Hull education

Hi Keith, I reverted the references on education in Hull but you got to the contributor at the same time as me with the message. Thanks--Harkey (talk) 15:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I was hoping the user would get back with references as it is an experienced editor. Keith D (talk) 19:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

ASDA

Thanks for your work last night. By the look of the time stamp on your message you were burning the midnight oil.I have altered the TOC and heading levels. I tried to model it on the TESCO article as the structure was a bit strange but then the sub sections got out of hand.--Harkey (talk) 08:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Just had another go! If I've messed it up, sorry, just revert. Tried to condense the number of sections. May not be PC, but probably more readable.--Harkey (talk) 08:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yorks (mystery) tour

I've been through Halifax where I accidentally bumped into User:Richard Harvey, who was also there at the time, so will now move on to Rotherham for a while.--Harkey (talk) 09:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

How did you recognise him, was he the only person in town? Keith D (talk) 09:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

" The Renaissance will take up to 25 years to complete." Apt quote from Rotherham! I've done first pass. Maybe we could make list of "People from Rotherham" to get that out of the way.--Harkey (talk) 10:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It well take some work to make it passable, I did a few changes but needs major surgery. The list would be a start as some of them are mentioned at points through the rest of the article, I remember chopping the Chuckle Brothers from 2 places in the culture section. I have done Middlesbrough F.C. after loosing half my edits as the browser crashed. Keith D (talk) 12:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to take a couple of days off, promised to take an elderly friend back to 1942. (War Weekend on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway.) I will resume as soon as I get back. (Monday p.m.)--Harkey (talk) 13:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

You have been very busy, thanks. Is there anything I can do at this point? I've had a look at the list and all are cleaned up except Leeds, which, as you say, is a difficult one because of POV edits. By the way, when will the cleanup bot for Yorkshire articles be running again, please.--Harkey (talk) 13:07, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back, I left the difficult one until last, did the Bradford City A.F.C. one this morning and I would think that one would be a GA candidate. I have a query on it as could not understand one section hopefully Peanut4 can answer it. I did have a couple of thoughts while doing them. Firstly on the 4 county articles one of them has a key box for the attractions and though that may be we could do that to the other 3. The other was on York/City of York I was thinking that we could move the dab page from City of York to City of York (disambiguation) and then redirect City of York to York. This would allow all of the articles that should say City of York to be corrected and the infoboxes of the places changed to City of York. This would at least get everything pointing correctly.

The clean-up bot is stalled at the moment for all projects. The problem is the bot creates the lists from the database dump and as far as I can tell from the noticeboards is that the dump has not worked for a few months now. Once the dump is fixed then the clean-up bot should be able to generate new listings. — Well I am out of date there was a new listing generated this morning from a dump of 8 October. Keith D (talk) 16:38, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Coming back to your comment on Kingston upon Hull - yesterday Doonhamer returned so may be you could tie-up with him to get that moving again. You could also look at the Anne Brontë one and see if you can do a GA on that and if any changes are needed for the DVD. Keith D (talk) 16:59, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

(reset indent)Thanks for your message. I contacted Doonhamer and he has said he will have a look at Hull and the GA comments. I did a printout of Anne Brontë and can't really see a lot that can be improved unless you have noticed any technical stuff.I will have another look at it later, though, as I was falling asleep over it! As for Leeds, I have my suspicions about one or two of the POV editors. Maybe we could get User:PamD on board for the quick cleanup, as she has been a vigilant and frequent contributor. I think the culture, media and sport will need the sub headings to be removed and some more references are needed for the history (which is not particularly brilliant).--Harkey (talk) 07:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I did add a couple of dated tags but have not tagged for new references as has already got a general reference tag. The main problem to tackle is the events section which I think we could loose as it is a list and many of the items get repeated elsewhere lower down the article. There is also a minor problem over Stanningley SARLC or Stanningley ARLFC is it the same thing or 2 different clubs? Hopefully I can get the rest done today.

On a different topic - Scarborough. Earlier this year I completed generating all of the Civil Parish articles for Scarborough Borough or updating them with at least an infobox and the census information with reference. The problem is the council web site does not have a gazetteer of what villages/hamlets are in which civil parish so I could not add details to the parish articles or update the village articles to indicate which parish they are in. The council were less then helpful when I e-mailed them apart from saying the information was not available on their web site. Do you know of a listing of this information? Keith D (talk) 09:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

You can probably get it from http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/ - fascinating site! As for Leeds, my heart rather sinks when it comes up on my watchlist and I know nothing about Stanningley sports teams, but I'll try and have a look! PamD (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks I will check it out later once the DVD stuff is finished. I know what you mean about the watchlist, certain users and articles always make you wonder what has happened. Keith D (talk) 13:00, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I did a bit of copyediting and adding refs to Leeds. I know what Pam means, as well. I even took it off my watchlist for a while earlier this year. I think with edits to Leeds, its a case of "light the blue touchpaper and stand well back". I'll try a bit more in an hour or two.--Harkey (talk) 13:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Hebden Village

Hello, Keith

I have taken a third look at the Hebden article as suggested, and added a Religion section, a section of the origin of the name, and a reference to the Domesday book entry as recommended by the How to Write About Settlements page. Do you think that a section on Public Services is required for such a small village? I really don't want to clutter the article with material for its own sake. I am also a little perturbed by the increase in size of the Photo Gallery which has appeared. I was pleased to see half a dozen photographs which served as peacock descriptions of the area, but we now have a dozen, half of which don't really seem to contribute to the article. However, I don't want to incur anyone's wrath by removing any. - John --Langcliffe (talk) 10:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I do not think that a Public Services section is required but others may if you go for a GA review. I did spot in the religion section that a better link may be a direct one to the Diocese of Bradford rather than as now.

On the photos I think the first move would be to get them on commons, there is some tools to do that but do not know off hand what they are, and create a category to group them together. You can the use a link to that from the article with {{commonscat}} so readers can get to them all. Others can be added there for readers to see without clogging up the article. I would then select a few appropriate ones and put them though the text or down the right-hand edge and may be get rid of the gallery or just have a set of 4 across the bottom of the article.

Have a word with the user first just to see how they react to proposed changes. Keith D (talk) 12:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Catching up

Hi Keith,

I hope all's well with you. I've been away from the project for a few months now for personal reasons. Back now, though I'm not in a position to edit as in-depth as I did before. Still, I'll be happy to help as as I can nonetheless. It looks like the Hull and KC Stadium articles have been in good hands during my hiatus. Anything on your radar that needs attention where I might be able to help out? Doonhamer (talk) 23:56, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, nice to have you back on board. You may have noticed from the Hull talk page that it failed a GA review. A few days ago Harkey Lodger (see above) suggested we should have another go for GA so may be you could have a look over Hull and see what needs doing. Would be good to start getting some of the spin off articles moving like History of Hull, Hull Blitz etc. There is of cause the Hull City articles that could do with some work now they are flying in the premiership. I am currently tied up with preparation for the DVD release work which needs completing by next Monday 20th October. Keith D (talk) 13:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Welcome message

Thanks, Keith D, for your kind welcome to Wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petripavlovian (talk • contribs) 00:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Keith D, for your kind welcome to Wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petripavlovian (talk • contribs) 00:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Keith D, for your kind welcome to Wikipedia PetripavlovianPetripavlovian (talk) 00:15, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Hebden Village Again

Hello, Keith

I have added a Public Services section to Hebden, and after consultation with the other editor pruned the photograph gallery and provided a link to a new Wikimedia category, as you suggested. Hopefully, that's it? It's certainly a lot of words for a tiny village! But it's been a good learning experience... - John --Langcliffe (talk) 11:02, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

YPYorks Front page

Hi Keith, I've just looked at the front page of WPYorks and its gone haywire. There appears to be a table inserted which has sent all the subsequent text into columns. Can you see what has caused it, please?--Harkey (talk) 15:08, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I've fixed it - "|}" had got lost from the end of Wikipedia:WikiProject Yorkshire/Members in a recent group of edits, and I've replaced it. Seems to look OK now. PamD (talk) 15:35, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Pam - looks like I did not get the last edit fixed up correctly! I only looked at the sub-page not back at the main page to see how it displayed. Keith D (talk) 16:13, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Bradford City

I've reworded that sentence so hopefully it's clearer now? Glancing above at some other discussions, I intend to push it towards FAC at some point, though various sections have quite a bit of work to do. Still I have a long-term plan in mind with it. Peanut4 (talk) 21:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the change I can understand it now. Thanks also for correcting my incorrect assumption on Hull. Keith D (talk) 21:35, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Glad it makes sense. I'll check the Valley Parade page too. I'm not sure which club the Hull link I modified should actually link to. I guess probably Hull FC otherwise I presume it would say Hull Kingston Rovers. However, I'm not sure. Hopefully it will make sense when I go through that section.

On a broader note, good to see your work on improving the Yorkshire articles for CD release, but also will be for everyone's benefit. Peanut4 (talk) 22:12, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

In fact, I think it deserves extra credit.

		The Geography Barnstar
		For your tremendous edits on a range of Yorkshire articles on a whole host of subjects. Superb work. Peanut4 (talk) 22:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks - much appreciated. Keith D (talk) 08:56, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Leeds

I am about to tackle the recreation etc. section. Should shopping go in economy, or am I biased as I hate it?--Harkey (talk) 09:03, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I thought that Leeds was ready, after the flurry of activity yesterday it is in a lot better shape now. I was finding it difficult to keep up with the changes as so many changes in such a short space of time by different editors. I would say yes to your question, do not think there is anything more appropriate in WP:UKCITIES. Keith D (talk) 09:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I have done as much as I can to the Leeds article now. RE: Anne Bronte. I think it should go to GA fairly soon but I think I ought to get hold of a library copy of the book from which the sources are derived, first. I shall then be able to check any content queries.It will also be useful in checking the other Bronte articles.--Harkey (talk) 10:22, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, I have just started looking at changes since I took versions, done A-H. On Anne Bronte I was unsure about it fitting in with the biography guidelines, e.g. spelling out ages rather than numbers, but otherwise I can see no problems. Charlotte's article is not so good and mainly unreferenced. Keith D (talk) 11:29, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

It might be better to go back a version for the Selected copy of Leeds as the one on the list has bugs in the list!!! --Harkey (talk) 17:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

You had better explain what problem is, I have done some tweaks following diffs, though I did spot loss of Leeds festival. Keith D (talk) 17:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Another user restored the list of areas in Leeds and got the format wrong, between edits and you took the bugged version. --Harkey (talk) 17:55, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I had not spotted that change I took the top copy for the diffs before going out and so missed it. Will have to look again. Keith D (talk) 18:02, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I was having a quiet panic at the time as the user was not using edit summaries or sourcing text so I saw a whole load more work looming.Sorry.--Harkey (talk) 18:07, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the area list as in the sub-article and does not add much just clogs it up Keith D (talk) 18:12, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

BTW I removed the notable people from Rotherham to List of people from Rotherham.--Harkey (talk) 18:20, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I have switched it to {{main}} template. I have also fixed-up Leeds again, I think and taken another version. Keith D (talk) 18:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hull City FC Graph

Hi Keith_D: sure thing - I'll take a look at it tomorrow - I need to make a couple of changes to it anyway... and give you a preview before I replace it on the page.--Payo (talk) 19:15, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for quick response. Keith D (talk) 19:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Ugthorpe Catholic Mission

Hello: I just entered som material from the early 19th century. Wondeing if there are any remnants there of the old Catholic mission. Thanks. Skodoway (talk) 20:59, 15 October 2008 (UTC)skowdoway

Sorry cannot answer this as not been up in that part of Yorkshire, mainly know the East Riding area and south of Scarborough in North Yorkshire. Harkey may know as she is based in North Yorkshire. Keith D (talk) 22:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

This is the best I can do [1]. I've always assumed the church was on the site of an older building.--Harkey (talk) 21:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks it was just a thought, as I have no detail knowledge of the area. May be worth adding that photo to the Ugthorpe page. Keith D (talk) 21:32, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Leeds

Hiya.. you're very welcome. Honestly, I just found the page randomly, started fiddling, and got sucked right in. It was all very accidental. [ roux ] [x] was prince of canada 22:58, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

White peak

Thank for Note I've fixed it. Thats what comes of from multiple project tagging (and just pasting in), You missed an earlier one which should also have been one county and the summary said a different one or it might have been Sheffield. Thanks, it was from following links in the Pennines article which listed several about 10 areas. Added Dorman Long yesterday as they come in Yorkshire now but Teesside in someways to me fits better with the North East. Came across a village in Notts tagged as Derbyshire (not by me). I'm Purging some of the Lincs articles of all the inline ELs (It is correct removing all those Geograph links that riddle the text of some articles with more of them per paragraph than wiki links ?) as well as other dubious add links for hotels & shops etc looking like wiki links at first glance. Thers hundreds of those station articles about, I'm getting fed up of adding unreferenced at times to some blocks of articles. See your a bit busy 'Auditing' the Yorkshire articles. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 00:25, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Can I pass this to you Keith, I ve had a message about the Ibox map on the Hollinsclough article, I've not had anything to do with the I boxes and maps yet (Need to add a few when I've don adding articles needing them to Derbyshire Project list):

Any chance you can work out why the red blob for locations of Hollinsclough and Longnor, Staffordshire are on Edinburgh in the insert instead of within the Satffordshire boundary of the main outline map? Infobox map system. I have checked and rechecked the grid refs and latitude / longitude refs. No trouble getting 3 shire head in the right place straight away. Robert of Ramsor (talk) 00:04, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks (in anticipation of your expert help or pointer to an expert) - BulldozerD11 (talk) 01:01, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you are using he wrong co-ordinate system for Hollinsclough and Longnor, Staffordshire, I have fixed them, I think they look just about on the boarder.

Thanks for sorting out the tagging - I do not usually look at the history of the talk page any looked as I could not work out why it was tagged. I have tended not to bother tagging as {{Unreferenced}} as that applied to most articles and just clutters things up. I tend to use {{Fact}} for dubious information that has been added that I do not think warrants an immediate revert. On the Geography links I would think that they should be removed and replaced by the actual image, assuming that there are only a couple in an article. Though for road articles they may be useful as it is a way of having pictures for the whole route, the other way is to create a gallery on commons for each entry then add the {{Commoncat}} template to the article. Keith D (talk) 10:10, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing Co-ordinate problem Keith, (It was User:Robert of Ramsor who was having problem & asked me for help after Id tagged a related article, I've not got involved in co ordinates yet).

I'm only adding {{Unreferenced}} to some articles, and had a reasonable success in getting refs added. Often adding {{refimprove}} if they have some ELs , and as you say using the {{fact}} tag for unsubstantiated claims, as you suggested early on. The geograph links have mainly been articles sprinkled with them for not particularly notable features, but i'll look at the option of uploading the images, but adding of images is a bit long winded (probably why people are just adding links), and I've got abacklog of my own images to add when i have time to illustrate articles with on here and my other project).

I've left most of the road articles alone for now as they are generally a mess , with allsorts of issues, so just adding the Major roads to each project for now. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 00:56, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Giovani Dos Santos >> Access dates

I changed it because they are in the wrong format, should be in International format not American. Same with all the date's across all the articles in the footy project. We really need a bot to fix this problem as it is a huge problem. Govvy (talk) 21:03, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry you are going to have to refresh my memory of what article/change you are referring to. Keith D (talk) 21:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

It is a general problem with dates now they have decided to de-link and it is rather chaotic. Personally I would have gone for a software solution that would allow dates in any format in the article and output them in standard format for all users, either by user preference or by detecting browser settings for none registered users. But the developers do not appear to want to do anything so we have ended up with the mismatch. Keith D (talk) 18:05, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Leeds / 3RR

Just a drive-by piece of advice: take care not to sleepwalk into breaking 3RR. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 11:42, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder, it is to easy to slip over the line without realising it. Leeds is getting a pain as the changes are confusing and not about Leeds as such but about City of Leeds which is a different entity. Some of the changes are also changing the figures to be different from the referenced material. Keith D (talk) 11:50, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Spurn Lightship

Sorry it took me a few minutes to figure out what streetmap was followed by my computer freezing up on Yahoo maps. Here is the location using 53.7404 -0.3362 and this is using 53.740556 -0.338333 (53 44 26N 000 20 18W) . What I did was put the 53.7404 -0.3362 into GoogleEarth and zoomed in. This showed the coordinates to the east of the ship on a building. I then tried it using several of the maps listed through the coordinates at the top of the page and all showed the ship. Here is a shot using Google Maps and 53.740556 -0.338333 (53 44 26N 000 20 18W) and this is the same but using 53.7404 -0.3362. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 22:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

That's really strange. It seems to depend on how you get to Streetmap as to where it places the object. The links I gave above were created by going to the streetmap site and putting the coordinates in. I just tried using 53.740639 -0.338164 (53° 44' 26.30"N -0° 20' 17.39"W) which I got from Google Earth and was right in the middle of the ship. Testing in the article I got this Map sources/GeoHack listing. In turn I got this from Google Maps but it made the Streetmaps link worse than before. But if you go to the Streetmap site directly then this is what you get, which looks fairly close. I finally went back to the original coordinates on the Spurn Lightship page and followed the link through and got this which is also fairly close. I'll leave a message at Template talk:GeoTemplate to see if the problem can be fixed. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 22:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

It really shouldn't be a problem as the difference seems to be, in this case anyway, about 140 m (460 ft). For the most part if someone is using a different map they are still going to be able to see the correct area even at the current scale used in the lightship article of 1:1000. Most articles will have a scale further back and it won't be so easy to spot. At least you didn't do something like this which I didn't see for a year. That extra 00 put several Yukon airports into eastern Russia. They were all picked up by Google Earth and it took months after I corrected them for Google Earth to get them to the correct place. I didn't even see the error, it was an IP that first saw the problem on Google Earth. Now I always try and remember to check at least one coordinate link to see if I'm in the correct area. I find that {{GeoGroupTemplate}} is really helpful because it will show you very quickly if a set of coordinates are incorrect. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 23:33, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

And it looks as if its been fixed for now Template talk:GeoTemplate#Streetmap link. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 00:39, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikiproject Lincolnshire

Hi Keith. You tagged Navenby for this project today, and I wondered if you wanted to do the same for Skinnand as well. I haven't finished with this one. Its a work in progress.-- Myosotis Scorpioides 22:13, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, I have just tagged it. I am tagging articles when I come across them as the project is fairly new and just getting started. Keith D (talk) 22:24, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Keith, for fixing project page, I see you spotted & fixed the Commons cat link i copied with a load of other bits from the Derbyshire page and forgot to update. Not sure what the other thing was that you did with the bot list as couldn't see it on the page ? Whats that for, as I'd seen the project changes link (section) you added earlier. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 00:56, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

The thing I added is hidden at the moment, but can be revealed later to put a box there. It produces a clean-up listing of articles with tags on, like the Yorkshire one here, when the bot runs. Unsure how long it is between putting tag on page and the listing appearing. Should keep a track of the articles with problems that need addressing. Keith D (talk) 08:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Album Covers

The album cover in question was allready on the Wikipedia database, I merely used a copy from the album (London 0, Hull 4) page.

Mtaylor848 (talk) 18:41, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Missing geographical coordinates

I think categories are coming; I'll check with User:The Anome, who indicated he was cooking such things up. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

WPYorks November Newsletter

Hi Keith, I'm back from my jaunts.(Since retirement I have become taxi driver, baby sitter, shopper, nurse and even tractor driver - not to mention movement control in the egg production unit -- cleaning out the chicken shed !!!) I think maybe we ought to mention the work we did for the DVD and thank some of the editors who helped. Also, some of the members of WPYorks appear not to have contributed to Wikipedia for some time (years). Maybe we could find out who is active and on what and make a mention of them? The latest cleanup listing could feature? Any other ideas? --Harkey (talk) 16:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The clean-up listing sounds a good idea may be tie it in with the watchlist now that we can rely on it. The other possibility is the current co-ordinate drive to get articles located, but that is probably rather specialised area. I know that most of the ones I have done are off west of where they should be as there was a problem with the mapping translation. Unsure what is happening on the DVD as the latest update to the main page only appears to be hand picked selections not the full selected list. I have stopped updating the versions but think we managed to improve most of them during the month. Should get a mention in the thanks section at least. Keith D (talk) 16:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, maybe we could write out a step by step How to add co-ordinates and infoboxes (with apologies to those who already know).I was (and am)very grateful for such advice on Wikipedia. Will the missing co-ord tags appear on future cleanup listings? Which infobox is to be used as Sheffield appears to have a different one?--Harkey (talk) 07:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I will pass on the clean-up listing. They did have a note in place of the co-ordinates at the top of the articles but have removed that after complaints and it just shows up in a hidden category now. Unsure what you mean about Sheffield, the Sheffield article uses the same infobox as Kingston upon Hull. The infobox used depends on the article. Unless you mean the category Sheffield created for their missing co-ordinate articles. I think they are looking at generating categories for other counties but unsure of the progress on this, see above section.

If you want to put something together as a starting point then we can play with it in the next couple of days. Keith D (talk) 11:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Some articles use Infobox Settlement and others use Infobox UK place e.g.Halifax, West Yorkshire and Huddersfield. The former gives a grid reference field. I'll start drafting something on Sunday pm, I will have it ready in time!!--Harkey (talk) 08:06, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Many of the coord missing articles are not places they are buildings, places of interest, etc which use all sorts of infoboxes. Just been doing some disused railway stations. Keith D (talk) 10:42, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

We have an extra hour this month to get it ready! Keith D (talk) 10:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank goodness for the extra hour. I've made a start. Comments welcome. Feel free to add bits etc.--Harkey (talk) 17:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, looks good, just made a couple of changes/additions for now. Do you know anything about Hebden, North Yorkshire as it is now on hold for GA with most of the problems revolving around references. The author may return during the week to rectify the points raised, but has not been around for a few days. Keith D (talk) 17:52, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

(reset indent)Hebden is a bit out of my area and I can't see much apart from adverts on Google. I'll have another look later.--Harkey (talk) 18:24, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Most of the references are to books or leaflets which are not readily available so cannot reuse them for other facts without getting hold of them. Keith D (talk) 18:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Added more to newsletter feel free to alter and amend.--Harkey (talk) 19:27, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Falcon

Oops wrong end of the Humber Bridge. I was thinking Barton was on the North Side. I've fixed cat & Banner. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 20:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Keith D (talk) 20:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Gilders

Keith was there an article for Gilders (car dealers) recently that was speedy deleted i think, as I'ved added a list of biggest private companies from the Sunday Times and am looking for the missing companies in the list. There are quite a few local ones needed. Doncasters (Danial), Shepherd, Gilders , TC Harrison, GK Kenning, Simons, Vasanta (Kingfield Heath), Keepmoat etc from Top Track 100 & Top Track 250 (both incomplete yet) and but don't want to create basic stubs like has been done for FTSE companies. - BulldozerD11 (talk) 00:01, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I cannot see any article of that title that has been deleted. Keith D (talk) 00:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment

Clearly English isn't your strong point, and you would rather grammatically incorrect sentences stayed in Wikipedia articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.253.219 (talk) 18:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I think all I did was to restore the infoboxes that you removed from 2 articles, which are a standard part of articles. Keith D (talk) 18:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Sheffield was in Yorkshire, last time I looked.

What is the value of a Yorskshire wikiproject banner on an article already in the Sheffield wikiproject?

You could try the approach WikiProject Pennsylvania uses to bring WikiProject Philadelphia under its wing: a combined banner: {{WikiProject Philadelphia}}

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Many articles are under both projects, just as there are many articles under Yorkshire & its parent UK Geography. The project covers all of Yorkshire so would be part of it as it would be part of the Sheffield specific project. There is no plans to make one a sub-project of the other, though it was suggested that all the regional projects be sub-projects of UK Geography but that did not get very far. Keith D (talk) 20:13, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Wakanda sends its thanks

Thanks for moving Wakanda. I bet you haven't moved a whole country before. ;-) --GentlemanGhost (talk) 23:24, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Fascination (Alphabeat single) to Fascination (Alphabeat song)

Maybe I did the db-merge request wrong, but my intentions were to request to have the article Fascination (Alphabeat single) moved to Fascination (Alphabeat song), along with the history for Fascination (Alphabeat single). Can you help me with this? Thank you. --Wolfer68 (talk) 23:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

You should have made a request at WP:RM but I will move it to save you the trouble. Keith D (talk) 23:40, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate that. I apologize for the trouble. And thank you for showing me where to make similar requests in the future. :) --Wolfer68 (talk) 23:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)