User talk:J~enwiki/Archives/2009/June

Montreal as second largest French Speaking City

You reverted to false information. Montreal has a smaller population than Abidjan and Lyon, making it at least the fourth-largest (i.e. most populous) Francophone city in the world. Rerutled (talk) 01:05, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not too bothered whether the article claims "second" or "third" city by some criteria provided that it is properly citated, but you appear to have a preference for "second" and using Prospects for Democratizing Democracy. In that case can I suggest that you at least propery cite it. Based on what is shown in Amazon.com, the book appears to be: Roussopoulos, Dimitrios and Benello, C. George (Edrs.) (2003). Prospects for Democratizing Democracy. (Revised edition) Black Rose Books ISSB 1-55164225-5. However Amazon.ca shows a newer paperback edition. Amazon.com lists another 12 contributing authors and talks about 20 papers, so the page that is being cited may not have been written by Roussopoulos and Benello. I don't have access to the book, but if its that important to you, then you aught to properly cite it. As a made up example, it could be: Perry, Stewart (2003) "Montreal the city". Chapter 19 in: Roussopoulos, Dimitrios and Benello, C. George (Edrs.) (2003). Prospects for Democratizing Democracy. (Revised edition) Black Rose Books ISSB 1-55164225-5, page 396. At present you are trying to define an improperly cited reference which other editors suggest is at least six years old. At least with a date you could say something along the lines of: "In 2003 Montreal was the second ...city..(Ref 11)" which is much easier to defend.Pyrotec (talk) 11:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

My preference is that the article reflect, as precisely as possible, as accurately as possible, whatever the facts are; my preference for "second" is based solely on the fact that the only reliable source we have says it was second. I think that's a pretty reasonable preference. You also wrote: "In that case can I suggest you at least properly cite it." I didn't source this article, and I only found out on Saturday that someone had a problem with the citation. It's Monday. So I appreciate your suggestion, but I do not own the book and I'm not home until Wednesday. I do intend to try to request a copy from the library or through an interlibrary loan at that point, and I will indeed try to clarify the citation. user:J aka justen (talk) 16:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

You have made two accusations of "lack of good faith" on my talkpage. The reference that was given in Montreal was " Participatory Democracy: Prospects for Democratizing Democracy‎, Dimitrios I. Roussopoulos, C. George Benello, p.292." This is hardly verifiable. User:Rerutled has kindly changed this unverifiable reference to one that is far more verifiable, i.e. " Participatory Democracy: Prospects for Democratizing Democracy. Montreal; New York: Black Rose Books. p. 292. ISBN 1551642247,1551642255 (paperback)." However, there remains a question mark as to whether the information in that particular chapter dates from the 1970s or the early 2000s.Pyrotec (talk) 08:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)