User talk:Jor70/Archive02

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Falklands (malvinas)

I just took out your addition

In spite of this, Argentina could broke the islands isolation building Stanley runway and establishing an air route with LADE. Also, YPF which at the time was the argentine national oil and gas company, was in charge of supply the island regularly.

Because its a terrible bit of English which has no clear meaning. My Spanish is a lot like that. Perhaps we could co-operate to produce something ?

Don't send the marines :)

--Gibnews 13:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Gibs, you deleted my sentence and now the paragraph is definitively a british point of view. Would be nice if you can help me copyedit my post Jor70 03:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, The English was so confused that I'm not sure what you are tring to say, but very happy to help. My written Spanish is terrible, and its taken me a very long time to produce decent English. Put someting on my user page prefereably with references, so I can read the background and I'll sort it out a sentence that restores the balance but is readable. --Gibnews 11:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

How about this - I have no idea if the facts are correct but it reads better; reinsert the citations.

There were no air links to the islands until 1971, when the Argentine Air force (Fuerza Aérea Argentina), which operates the state air line Líneas Aéro Del Estado (LADE) began amphibious flights between Comodoro Rivadavia and Stanley using Grumman HU-16 Albratros aircraft [2]

Following a FAA request, the UK and Argentina reached an agreement for the FAA to construct the first runway. Flights began using Fokker F27 and continued with Fokker F28 jets twice a week until 1982. This was the only air link to the islands [3].

YPF the Argentine national oil and gas company, now part of Repsol, supplied the Islands energy needs.

--Gibnews 19:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Awesome!, Let put it! Jor70 21:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well that seems to have worked, nobody has complained. Incidentally I got to interview a member of the Falklands war cabinet recently, the ARA San Luis was a significant concern. --Gibnews

Oops, do you have specific data ? Jor70 13:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

None that can be used on Wikipedia.

I found an interesting site with a lot of analysis about foreign policy on http://www.argentina-rree.com/home_nueva.htm

--Gibnews 09:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Is Carlos Escudé web site. There is an insteresing list about ARG-UK negotiations about the islands here. --Jor70 11:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I see 'operation Algeciras' is in the news

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2418418.ece

Read it quick for free before it gets archived. It was an incident that thankfully never happened. --Gibnews

Mrs T would have retaliated on our mainland for sure. Jor70 23:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

UK military reduction

Hi, I reverted your edit which removed the comment that the invasion was encouraged in part by the United Kingdom's reduction in military capacity in the South Atlantic - as it is I think generally held that the Nott cuts in the Royal Navy were seen as an indication that the UK would not defend the islands. Springnuts 14:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Generally held where ? in London ? Argentine bibliograpy ( Commodore Ruben Oscar Moro La Guerra Inaudita, 2000 ISBN 987-96007-3-8 , a lot more ) said the contrary and we are talking about the argentine thought here. Jor70 14:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Its certainly the perception here that the British Government signalled its lack of interest in defending the territory. Firstly HMG tried to close the Atlantic Survey base on South Georgia due to lack of funds, which the RFalkland Islanders sourced from the sale of postage stamps, but the real signal was the withdrawl of HMS Endurance "Argentina's interest in the move was clear when a friend from the London embassy telephoned Lord Shackleton and asked if it meant the UK was losing interest in the region, he answered that he did not know" - The Falklands war by the Sunday Times Insight team ISBN 0-7221-8282-1 Page 55.

Based on that, I think its reasonable to revert back to the original wording as it is certainly the view of the British side that the signals sent by them were responsible for the invasion, which is also why there were resignations.

--Gibnews 20:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The way the sentence is written doesnt show the english perception, its simple assures that the Argentine reason what that. I think you should re write it to clarify is the british perception and not the real cause of the invasion per se Argentine bibliograpy. Jor70 23:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Javier Mascherano

Hi Jor70. The problem is that no-one on the English Wikipedia seems to know all that much about South American football, so your updates to this article have been very helpful. aLii 17:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Being a River and Banfield fan I certainly could add a lot of info about Masche and Paletta but I dont know if they would be accepted due most of them were not covered by the english media. Jor70 17:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

About the nicknames, just out of interest, which do you think is the most important then? The infobox guideline says there should only be one listed, but I'm happy enough to keep both. aLii 22:21, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Then it should be Masche, jefecito was a just a recognition once Leonardo Astrada (he was el jefe) retire from playing. I know Mascherano since 2001 and, not just his team mates and coachs, but everytime an Argentine media interview him, he is called masche. This is just another example of things not covered by BBC and other english media but very common in Argentina. Jor70 22:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Debatable / controversial

Probably not, don't worry about it, it was a mistake. Angmering 00:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

South-American-task-force=yes

Next time, could mark your changes as Minor so I dont have all my watchlist full with this ? thks --Jor70 12:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jor. Sorry about the inconvenience. HOwever, i am not editing any article but adding tags to wikiprojects templates. I'll do even though i use the edit summary which mentions my additions. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up ®} 12:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I know, but if you check the minor edit mark we can filter them out. --Jor70 12:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

List of military decorations

You might be interested in this. Not really my topic. --Mariano(t/c) 19:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

thks! --Jor70 22:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Cite in Belgrano [1]

My Spanish isn't that good - but the citation you've given doesn't seem to support the statement ".... the Argentine Junta decided to wait for the decision of the Peruvian peace proposal before continuing hostilities. All Argentine Navy task groups were ordered to withdraw from the area until further notice". Captain Bonzo merely says that he was ordered to a holding position west of the islands. Is there a specific sentence that says that in that source ? Megapixie 12:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Bonzo is very clear:

• una modificación de la situación general, the situation changed (he is refering the Junta was very near to accept President Terry proposal as shown in the other reference)
• hizo demorar la acción cuando estábamos en franco acercamiento Se nos ordenó permanecer en una estación de espera más al Oeste. , They were heading TO the islands, but the orders came to stop, go back to far west position and wait

They were going TO the british and received an order to stop and go to west, that is a withdraw --Jor70 12:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Well - I don't think it's clear at all - I thought the reason they turned back was that the 25 de Mayo couldn't launch a Skyhawk strike due to a lack of wind. 2 Escuadrilla also had two exocet armed Super Etendards in the air on the 2nd of may that had to abort due to a mid-air fueling problem. You are going to have to produce a much more definite statement saying that the Junta decided to wait for the peace proposal and as a result ordered the Navy to stand down. The current citation doesn't support that. Megapixie 13:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I already put that in the other 2 references!, and anyway that the ARGENTINE VIEW section of the controversy and you cannot put there a british POV Jor70 13:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Mega, I didn't mean to be rude, but whilst the whole article is written in behalf of british views it seems you are asking me for a Galtieri movie tape for the only lines that express the argentine view Jor70 14:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

All I'm asking for is a citation that backs up the claim. Bonzo said in one interview (admittedly with British author) "... the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano". If it's really the Argentine view - then it needs to be backed with a citation (which I asked for). If it's in an TV interview - cite a TV interview - if it's in a Spanish language book -cite a spanish language book. But don't cite something that doesn't support the claim just to remove the citation tag. Megapixie 14:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Number of Argentine participants

Hi Jor70, I have read that Argentine veterans now is receiving some kind of 'war pension'. Is it possible to tell how many participated from the army, navy, air force, coast guard, border guard and merchant navy?? Yours sincerely Necessary Evil 22:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean how many recevied the war pension ? There was a controversy about it due in 1983 they were near 14000 (military, security (GNA/PNA) and civilians that were in TOAS) but by 2005 they were 25000 ! [2] obvious a corruption issue. --Jor70 23:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi!

Sorry to invade your talk page with trivial matters. But being the only wikipedia user from Argentina that I have debated with I was just wondering if you know of any good, (English language) websites that cover football in Argentina? Each week I watch a one hour show on the British TV station Channel Five. It is on at 5am each week so I have to save it and watch it later! I have a "River Plate supporter" userbox on my user page, even though in reality I am not a fan of just one club! I also made my own userbox which is also on my userpage - "This user is a fan of Argentine football". I love the atmosphere from the big games too and even have some videos of fans chanting on You Tube! - and please, honestly, try not to be so insulted by "that" picture!! As I said on the articles talk page, I can understand that you are insulted, but just try to imagine five English players there with handbags instead maybe!!! :) Thanks! ♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 22:17, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I will prefer better to 'see' that english team image on the page instead of imagine it; Just think about any visitor of any part of the world that goes to that article: the only image that could see is that mocking the Argentine team!. Anyway, I take your good spirit and intentions about this. Im a River (and Banfield) fan, and sometimes I cannot believed the poor or none information about our teams and players in the european media. You can follow the Argentine teams (among others) campaign here Jor70 22:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that, and yes it is a huge shame that football in Argentina is not given more coverage in Europe. A one hour show in the UK at 5am is all we get in the UK, which is not enough. Showing it at 5am also means that very few people will watch. Yet Argentine players do well in Europe. Maybe the Argentine league do not do enough to get it shown in Europe, as the show I watch each Wednesday is clearly made in Argentina but with English commentary added. I must admit that while I like River Plate I do also like the atmosphere at Boca mathes, even though that is an odd thing to say as I know they are huge rivals! I would love to go to a Superclásico match one day. The team I support in England are only in the English Third Divsion. With the picture though I think that it is probably best left out of the article and yes you are right about a neutral looking at the article and only seeing that picture! Thanks again.♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 00:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Not your case, but may I ask why most English people say Argentinian instead of Argentine ?

I think because we call people fromn Brazil, Brazilian, people from Uruguay Uruguayans and from Chile, Chilean and so we just think that Argentinian must be right!♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 00:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Argentina and England football rivalry

The Argentina vs England rivalry page - I really don't know what to do about the image as it ios back in the article yet again. I do not wish to get involved in an edit war. Even though I find the image funny and think that you shouldn't be insulted, I still recognise that you are insulted by it, and that probably many Aregtines would be insulted. I also agree that any neutral looking at the article and seeing that image would feel that it appears bias. It seems though that no matter what you or I do or say the image keeps getting put back. What can be done to get it sorted, rather than just you, jooler and I discussing it and disagreeing about it? thanks ♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 13:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

At this moment the picture is comment out and should remain at least in that way due everyone who had spoke (w/o Jooler of course) was on the contrary to put the image Jor70 15:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi, just thought I had better explain why I reverted your good faith edit as you have tried adding it again. It was not because of the content, but because of the way you composed it, which unfortunately did not make total sense in English. The ref tags you used, foir example, are for external references to source the content, but the ref tags you used merely duplicated part of the text into the references section, which unfortunately made it pointless. I see another editor has now reverted it again. I am more than happy to help you compose it in English if you need, or any other edit. ♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 22:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I was trying to explain that the chant is sang always and in every game not only against England as the article seems to describe. Jor70 00:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi sorry for adding this here rather than at the bottom of this page - but I thought I should explain why I added the "not verified" tags on the article. It just seems that some editors (and I am not including you in this) add POV edits at will - and I don't like to admit it but quite often with English bias. And also, because the article is not fully sourced and has whole sections with no sources at all, it just seems that some editors think they can add now content without any verification, when they should really be providing a source for an event. By adding the tags I am not suggesting that any of the information is in any way incorrect or misleading or even POV. I added the tags simply to try and get the very result of what you have now done, to get more sources cited on the article.

And on a purely personal level (and I know wikipedia isn't a Message Board) but I am sat watching the Copa America in England on the Sky Sports channel right now, with Ossie Ardiles as one of the studio guests. I'm really looking forward to watching the Argentina v USA match! (Message Board comment finished!!)♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 22:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Hope you enjoyed the game!, Could you believe our press attack Riquelme after the game after being part of 3 of the 4 goals ?! Jor70 11:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, got your message; have been scanning my records in regard to the incident and can't find the site in which the quote was printed. When I do find it I will copy the site onto the page.

Found it:

The quote is this: during the halftime, some journalist from argentine radio asked a player (Corbatta, I think) what did he think of game. The answer came back (live) for everyone to hear: "Nos estan cagando a patadas !" (somewhat like "They are kicking the shit out of us", in the physical sense). [3]

I see someone has withdrawn everything in regard to England v Argentina that I put in; shame really. I don't think they know what they are writing and it's quite a biased attitude that they've taken. In England the idea is that Rattin was sent off for over-reacting to decisions but in essence he was dismissed for very little. In reports I have seen of the game I find that Jackie Charlton was booked, Rattin was sent off, Mas had a wonderful snap shot saved by Banks diving rigorously to his left to keep the ball out, and the Argentinians were stringing a wonderful series of passes together that England had no answer to. That an Hurst's delightful glancing header to win it. Why Ramsey should refer, post-match, to 'animals' is something that not many people have questioned. Exactly who was he referring to? Had there been a display of aggression? Argentina were a strong team in 1966 and England were lucky in that game. As you've written it is a matter of record that Maradona beat Shilton in 1986 as a result of his miss against England in 1980. People play but don't understand football in England. User:Steve bloomer 10:11, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:La seleccion

Hmm, it won't be easy. I might get one, let me try. --Mariano(t/c) 02:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

ARA General Belgrano

Jor70, regarding your revert of my edit to ARA General Belgrano, I respectfully submit that WP:MEMORIAL is official policy of the English Wikipedia. Due to this policy I have deleted similar rolls of honour on the other pages you pointed out. --RaiderAspect 13:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok!, be aware there are a lot of articles of such type. Jor70 23:04, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

ARA San Luis

Can you find a reference to support the claim that On 1985, San Luis was intended to be equipped with a small nuclear reactor ? I think its quite hard to make a reactor for a submarine, the British ones are based on a US design. --Gibnews 22:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I have a 1985 Clarín newspaper copy with ARA JEMGA making the speech in front of the submarine En los próximos 3 años la Argentina tendrá su submarino nuclear. US pressures and astronomical costs will end the project years later Jor70 23:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Have you got a date for that? It sounds the sort of thing that is good for a speech but harder to make happen - developing a mobile nuclear reactor must be very difficult. However the claim should be enough to get rid of the 'citation needed tag'. The original purpose of the British SSN's was to attack Russian SSBN's and to keep supply lines open across the atlantic. Thats why there are so many of them. Not sure why Argentina would need SSN's and the money would have been better spent on better torpedoes and electronics. Britain is currently debating whether to invest in the next generation of SSBN's they do not come cheap. They are not talking about replacing the SSN's. --Gibnews 13:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree, they half cut a valuable SSK which led to her premature retirement Jor70 20:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems I was wrong about new SSN's - see this --Gibnews 08:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Dismabig

I saw your solution to my bold edits and like it. I've done a load more that you havent fixed and intend to continue doing more and will incorporate your solution for them all. Que le vaya bien, SqueakBox 02:12, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Its nice to have some common points of view! ;-) Jor70 12:11, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:Background to the Falklands War

I suggest you use {{merge}}, {{mergeto}} and/or {{mergefrom}}. Good luck, --Mariano(t/c) 15:21, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Jor70 11:57, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

NPA

Please do not make make reference to me under the title 'British fanatism' as you did here. Please review WP:NPA and please refain from making reference to users nationality in this manner. Kernel Saunters 12:04, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:Argentina FAA peacekeepers.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Argentina FAA peacekeepers.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 19:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Jor70. Please do not remove the {{ifd}} tag from the image description page while the discussion is in progress. If you would like to comment about this image, please add your comments to Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2007 June 24#Image:Argentina FAA peacekeepers.jpg, but do not remove the {{ifd}} tag. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 19:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok --Jor70 19:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Argentina_national_football_team_logo.gif

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Wikiwings

I noticed your edits here today, and wanted to thank you for your hard work in WP:AIR subjects, and particularly those related to Argentina. As an editor who has had to remove such dubious items as the sinking of the HMS Invincible from the Harrier and Sea Harrier articles, among others, it's good to see someone commited to accuracy and verifiability, and to improving coverage of their home nation in an objective manner. Being objective in regard to supportive of our home nations is something all editors, including myself, have to balance with verifability and objectivity. - BillCJ 15:14, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Seven New Wonders

The New Seven Wonders do not need to be mentioned in the lead section. Every article has a mention in the appropriate place. Please refrain from promoting this event. IPSOS (talk) 14:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeap sorry, I already answered in the talk page --Jor70 14:52, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Ouch

How on earth did Argentina manage to lose that final to Brazil? Riquelme seemed to freeze. Argentina should have won the competition, they were easily the best team (and I watched every single game). Better luck next time! ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 00:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I think we should hire a german, american or whatever new staff (including for AFA president), it happened the same at the Copa 2004, Fed Cup 2005 without mention the WC last year. We have the talent, or at least that is what we believe, perhaps is time to bring a bunch of psychologists.- --Jor70 02:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Football-lineups

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I have tried to defend the template on the TfD page, but I fear that I will be outvoted by "football doesnt belong in an encyclopaedia" types. I find the template useful and hope that it stays, regards King of the North East 15:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:164 Squadron RAF.jpg

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AfD nomination of Michael Chaney (consultant)

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