User talk:Jimp/Archive II

Sources for paper industry figures

High Jimp - I noticed you made some edits to some paper related articles, so I was wondering if you had any ideas for an issue we have on at business card. We have lots of people adding in metrics for business cars for different countries, but no good sources from publications that could be considered neutral an reliable. In particular this has come up over the card stock used as individual retailers are (rightly) more geared up to market what they sell, rather than survey the industry and report averages. If you've come across good sources (especially international ones) it would be great if you could share them. Thanks. -- Siobhan Hansa 23:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it. I thought it might be a long shot, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what turns up. -- Siobhan Hansa 03:18, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Aunty-jack-c.jpg

Hello, Jimp. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:Aunty-jack-c.jpg) was found at the following location: User:Jimp. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 04:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Dr-Smith-oxygen-mask-1966.JPG

Hello, Jimp. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:Dr-Smith-oxygen-mask-1966.JPG) was found at the following location: User:Jimp. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 01:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops!

Sorry about that. Of course I don't mind at all. I'm just so used to using that + button. Bladestorm 00:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

from your userpage

I guess you're right, it doesn't matter whether your teacher is carring/looking... but it's sooooooo fun to try to be sneaky sneaky. --71.60.175.60 07:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC) Aka Da Jew[reply]

*{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|10|m|ft}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|10|ft|mm}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|10|sqin|sqmm|sp=us}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|1000|ft|km|sp=us}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|1000|acre|sq nmi}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|100|°C|°F}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|0|°C|K}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|-40|°F|°C}} *{{User talk:Jimp/Measurement‎|900|°R|K}}

Dash it

Hi, would love your input on User:Tony1/Hyphens_and_dashes, which is approaching the point of implementation. See also Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#Hyphens_and_dashes_in_the_MoS. Tony 01:02, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jimp, thanks so much for your points, most of which have merit, at a glance. I'll sort them out tomorrow (hoping to implement late tomorrow or Thursday).

But at this stage, I have to say that I don't understand the opening sentence of your Point 8. And then, what is "the software"? Are you saying that en dashes don't show on WP? Or just on your computer? And minus signs? People seem to have no trouble displaying them.

8) Since we have a minus sign, why use the endash in its place? However, the software doesn't recognise the minus sign as a minus sign. The endash does no better. It seems only to recognise the hyphen.

5 hyphen 2 i.e. {{#expr:5-2}} gives 3
5 endash 2 i.e. {{#expr:5–2}} gives Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "–".
5 emdash 2 i.e. {{#expr:5—2}} gives Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "—".
5 minus 2 i.e. {{#expr:5−2}} gives 3

Tony 12:31, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see, you're saying that since we have a minus sign, why not insist on its use for minus signs and operators. Well, it's a rather subtle difference visually, and that would be more proscription. Most people use en dashes for minus. But I still don't get the rest of your point. Tony 12:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So if you use the minus sign, there's trouble with that calculations function; if you use an en dash, it's fine? Sounds like a reason to use en dashes. There are so many en dashes for minuse signs, and people are more familiar with en dashes; isn't that a good reason to allow both (even to recommend en dashes and say you can also use minus signs)? Tony 00:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spaces

Ah, what a classy way to stick it up my ass :) Point taken. I must admit that I used {{space}} without even looking at its code (assuming it produces regular spaces), and that the only reason why I even considered {{space}} was because I was too lazy to look up the HTML code for the regular space (which, as you correctly indicated, is &#32) in the first place. Thanks for taking care of that.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 12:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-metrication

The wording's awkward. but actually the U.S. has officially adopted the metric system. All the customary U.S. units have been defined since 1893 in terms of metric units. Caerwine Caer’s whines 04:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Might it not be better then to use American spelling throughout that article? The article is primarily based around a U.S. viewpoint, which is understandable since the U.S. is the primary country that does not use the metric system as their primary set of ordinary units of measure. Caerwine Caer’s whines 06:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

sorry that you had to go round cleaning up all my capital Is. Writing Imperial with a capital I just comes naturally. Though I 'd write "imperialist" rather than "Imperialist"! --Red King 00:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prehistoric Iberia

Thnaks, Jimp! I have tried and tried to find english versions of the maps, but haven't managed to find them... But regarding the map displaying the Pre-roman peoples of Iberia, I've had and interesting talk with user EspañaViva, maybe you would like to help? Thanks again! The Ogre 12:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can thin spaces be non-breaking?

Hi Jimp, and sorry, I first ended up at your external page, so ignore this same message there, please, the location of which seems to have caused the very problems I was talking about there.

Given that we both know that thin spaces are optimal for all of the "spaced" items specified in the MOS, we need to deal with the non-break space issue too. I don't see how you can insert both html codes at once. That will give a normal and a thin space together, as you'll see below: the first is thin space, the second is (normal-space) non-breaking, and the third contains both (larger still). Hmmm.

25 kg
25 kg
25 kg

You're no doubt familiar with the "no wrap" template, which is supposed to perform the same function as the non-breaking space html code. I pasted in an example from Template:Nowrap, and then inserted the thin-space html code: it looks right; is this solution worth promoting as the way to go? That is, as an alternative to normal spaces, use the nowrap template with thin space html code?

34 kg
34 kg

Any suggestions? Tony 10:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS Yep, pasted it into the middle of a line of text, and it appears to work. Tony 10:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jimp, I'm unsure whether your note on my page was in response to this or to my latest suggestion at MOSNUM talk. I hope it's the former, since I thought I'd solved the problem with nowrap. It works just fine on my puter. By "my machine", I wonder what you mean ... Tony 11:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response to your comment on my page: Yeah, that last bit was easy. But I'm amazed and delighted that you've been able to come up with an easy way of doing the combined thin non-breaking space. WELL DONE! I'll test it now and change my proposed text at MOSNUM. Tony 02:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh God

whats with that picture of dead animals on a platter ? on yr user page ? 68.43.91.73

decoration J ɪ m p 14:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MOSNUM US units

Ta for your edit: could we avoid "US, US" by changing the second to "imperial", or using the same word order as for the subsequent point? Tony 00:59, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I had to revert your edits on the template Counties of Iceland but they seem to cause all other templates within a template group to disappear as it did on the Iceland article. Maybe you can fix your edits so they don't cause this problem. --ErickAgain 22:38, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TfD nomination of Template:Economy of Denmark table

Template:Economy of Denmark table has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 09:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How to do arithmetic conversions

Hi,

There was a recent discussion on wp:mosnum about the merits of templates versus manual conversions. My monobook metrication code searches articles for any digits followed by unitnames and replaces them with the convert template. I would like to do arithmetic in the monobook code itself and drop the manual conversion into the article. I do not understand all the 'if#' stuff.e Can you help me with some hints please? Regards Lightmouse 12:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jimp! Thanks for tweaking this template to include feet conversion. I just wanted to point out that instead of modifying this template it would be more logical to create a new one, {{cm to ft in}} (which would help to get rid of the extra ft parameter). This way, we'll eventually have a set of templates including {{ft to m}}, {{ft in to m}}, {{ft to cm}}, {{ft in to cm}}, {{m to ft}}, {{m to ft in}}, {{cm to ft}} (with decimal feet), and {{cm to ft in}}. Since all of the "x to y" templates in the Category:Conversion templates are single-purpose, this scheme will help keep it clean and consistent. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, your question about {{Convert}} is the very same one I was asking when I started creating single-purpose templates and suddenly discovered someone else had already attempted to create a universal one. As it turned out, some folks dislike {{Convert}}, so I was assured single-purpose templates would find their audience. In the end, it is a matter of taste and preference—if someone likes {{Convert}}, they should by all means continue using it. Same goes for single-purpose conversion templates folks. And as long as we have these two camps of users, it makes all the sense to keep single-purpose templates what they are—as specialized as possible. How that affects the big picture, however, I don't know, I'm just a humble tool-maker :)

In addition to this, my point of view is that while both {{Convert}} and single-purpose templates (in their simplest form) basically do the same job, the latter have a vast potential for growth. Take a look at {{ft to m}}, for example. I don't doubt {{Convert}} can be enhanced to include all the same features, but in the end it will make this (at this point rather robust) template unwieldy and overbloated, which is hardly a positive outcome. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:53, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Speaking of Breaux Greer‎ & Asafa Powell, may I suggest {{Height}} and {{Weight}} (the latter, however, first needs to be upgraded in the image of {{Height}})?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Random request from a stranger

Hello, Jimp! I realize we've never met, but I do tend to read talk pages, and I've long considered you to be one of the "template" gurus, and I was wondering if perhaps you have time to take a look at a project that my friend Mike is doing, a cubic foot to cubic meters template. He's got it in his userspace right now, and while he's an advanced programmer in "RL", some of the various Wiki-script/syntax issues are not familiar to him, as I'm sure you can understand. His starting template is located here, and I believe probably based off of the {{ft to m}} template. If you do not have the time to assist, that's fine, and if you could point to someone who perhaps would be able to help, that would be very helpful, as well! Thank you, ^Ariel♥Gold 21:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, I did not mean this was anything urgent, I'm sorry if I didn't clarify that. This is a project Mike is doing, and he just has some questions that I'm unable to answer, and I'm sure you'll have answers to, (the questions can be found here, the bottom portion has his questions.) He's really quick picking stuff up, so I'm sure he just needs a little clarification of a few things, which I'm clueless on lol. And even if it isn't today, again there's no real rush, but if you do ever get a moment I'm sure you'd be able to help him. Thanks for the quick answer! ^Ariel♥Gold 21:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

startsWith function?

Per Template talk:M3 to ft3, are you aware of some kind of "startsWith" function? It would take input of, say, "american", and return true for "am", "amer", "america", etc... Thanks! --Mike Vitale 15:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Bolding

Much apologies. I did not read the latter part of that part of the MOS. I simply assumed that all headings should be bolded, regardless of whether they were descriptive. We are on the same page now. However - are you sure this could be considered "descriptive"? where is the description? It is very clearly the "trade and use" - that is actually something. Perhaps this constitutes a loophole? -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk 00:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All the same - someone has done a rewrite to fix up the issue. I have no qualms with the new wording, personally. -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk 00:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I like it better as well. -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk 00:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ft2 to m2

I like way this works now - it is great. One question I would like it to match the precision of the inputed value but never go to a decimal. I tried to do this by indicating a precision of 0, but of course that makes 115,000 convert to 10,684 instead of 10,700.

In an ideal world I would like it to give at least 2 significant digits (So 100,000 would be 9,300), match the significant digits on the input, but never go to a decimal. So a 11,348 ft2 would be 1,054 not 1054.3.

Any help you could give me on getting it to do this would be appreciated.

Thx - Jim --Trödel 16:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I need your help - when the {{ft2 to m2}} is used, then the List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints page breaks and the templates just show up as links for the rest of the page. Starting with Spokane Washington (#59).

After seeing if it was other things in the template and in the data, I reverted the change to verify that it was the use of the new template that is contributing to the error. Unfortunately that fixed the problem. I am wondering if there is just too many templates being used on that page and if that is causing the problem. Each of the temples is on that page by referencing a template that in turn passes all the data to another template that has the formatting information for that list. The formatting template also uses quite a few templates. And with the addition of the ft2 to m2 use - there are quite a few additional templates showing up on the edit screen. Instead of:

Template:Ft-m
Template:Num commas

We have all the following templates being used - each more than 60 times on the same page.

Template:Ft2 to m2
Template:Ft2 to m2/0
Template:Ft2 to m2/1
Template:Ft2 to m2/2
Template:Ft2 to m2/3
Template:Max/2
Template:Nowrap (protected)
Template:Ordomag
Template:Ordomag/sum
Template:Precision/x
Template:Precision/x/sum
Template:Rnd
Template:Rnd/+
Template:Rnd/-

Perhaps this could create the problem. I'm just guessing here - please help me !!! Thx --Trödel 19:33, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is indeed with the most recent upgrade. Before the upgrade, the template's pre-expand size was about 2.5K; now it is about 20K (almost ten-fold). Such large size leads to rapid depletion of the pre-expand allowance (currently at 2M) on pages using many templates. I would suggest re-writing the most recently added code with the pre-expand size in mind. I had exact same problem with {{ft to m}}; you can take a look at its code to see how it was optimized (the pre-expand size was reduced from over 100K to 7K without sacrificing any features).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps there is a better way to check a template's pre-expand size, but I usually just hit "Random page" and edit whatever comes up by blanking the contents and replacing them with one instance of the template being checked. Then I hit "show preview" and look at the html code of the page; the pre-expand size is there in the comments block (just do an inline search for "pre-expand").

As for trimming down the template, one way to do it effectively is to make sure that irrelevant parts of the conditionals being tested are not expanded. I had a problem with pre-expand size when working on {{ft to m}}, and I found this piece of advice very helpful. That's how {{ft to m}}'s pre-expand problem was solved without having to sacrifice any features (great job on {{ft2 to m2}}'s feature set, by the way! It's great to see you started solving the significant figures problem—the feature has been requested on numerous occasions before). I wish I had time to offer more substantial help with this, but I've been quite short on time during the last several months. Anyway, let me know if there is anything I can help with, but otherwise I trust you'll manage just fine :) Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 02:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, it's a browser feature, not Wikipedia's :) In IE/Opera, select View→Source. It's a similar arrangement in Firefox or any other browser.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 12:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - You may want to look at the documentation for the use of the temple data here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement/Temples - let me know if I can help --Trödel 22:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thx for making the changes - I have deleted the two templates do you know of generic templates to convert ft to m and acres to hectares? --Trödel 19:11, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thx for the links - I had been looking at ft to m a little and playing with it - but then didn't have time this weekend to do anything. I've added it to my mental to do list --Trödel 19:55, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Everything is working great. But I haven't figured out how all the sub-templates work - I see you are making the length shorter by using -site-floor, etc. but don't have time to go through it all right now. If you could give me a brief explanation of what you did - then I'll do some detailed document it on the talk page for future generations :) Thx --Trödel 00:09, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow - thanks for the detailed explanation. I'll included it here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement/Temples. --Trödel 15:46, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mad libs

D'you know what a mad lib is? It's a phrase in which you switch certain words with another word of the same part of speech, so the end result is ridiculous, and funny. Here, I decided to share this with someone to humor you (and myself), as I have nothing else to do and I am tired. Kaktibhar 08:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

                                A Rough Day

"It all started when I awoke with a black pain in my eyebrows. Then, my octometrist was late. We got plucked in traffic for One thousand, two hundred thirty-four years, which made me stinky for my meeting with Sean Connery. I apologized filthily to him, which seemed to make things eccentric again. But then the meeting turned into tubas, with him flying and suffering. I bled when he spilled off. On the way home we passed a hint on a pond. Suddenly the hint sliced in the road and my octometrist had to push to avoid it. In the process, I was slaughtered from the gate, landing on my eyelid. I was covered in sulfuric acid from elbow to fingernail. Could this day get any more disgraceful? My octometrist grated me back into the gate and we made our way back to the luck. I went straight to The Black Market. I was lengthy!"

Convert sub template request

Hi Jimp,

Can you make a subtemplate for dunam to square kilometers and square miles in the future? It would look like this: 4,000 dunams (4.0 km²/1.54 sq mi). It is a unit of measurement currently used in the middle east and I keep coming across it. Regards, —MJCdetroit 19:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sandbox header

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. You may make test edits in the sandbox, but for the convenience of others, please leave the sandbox heading alone. P51Mustang 22:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Convert/W

A tag has been placed on Convert/W, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the page's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself.

If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this. VivioFa teFan ^{(Talk, Sandbox)} 07:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category for the subtemplates of Convert

Hi Jimp,

I had a bot go through and place of all of your subtemplates in the Category:Subtemplates of Template Convert

Please use the text:

<noinclude> [[Category:Subtemplates of Template Convert]] </noinclude>

when creating new subtemplates. Now we'll just have to get a bot to protect everything in that category. —MJCdetroit 15:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:Bryan Derksen ("Hello Bryan", if you're reading) has been going around and adding <noinclude> {{Uncategorized template}} </noinclude> to these subtemplates. I got me thinking—some kind of categorisation of these might be useful. Of course, a catgeory such as Subtemplates of Template Convert would be the over-all category but this would be subdivided according to the function of the subtemplate and some of those subcategories would be further subdivided (e.g. unit subtemplates sorted according to what they measure). Everything would be nicely listed ... alphabetically, which isn't terribly useful (as opposed to something like this) ... though these category pages would be the obvious place to put more useful listings. However, I then got to wondering what the cost would be in terms of pre-expand size. To my dismay whilst playing around with this in the sandbox (the main one) I found that these categories do seem to count to pre-expand size. I abandoned the idea. Now here's another use for categorisation: to guide a protection bot.

I'd have to agree that these should be protected—with the current version all is in the one place and vandalism can easily be found and reverted, but the thing is protected nonetheless; with my version with its hundreds (thousands? I'm not counting) of subtemplates (all on my watchlist, of course, but ay) vandalism could easily go unnoticed. Yeah, I s'pose full protection is a must. That would put everything out of my reach, though, not being an admin. This might not be a great problem ... if it's any problem at all since, yep, we are ready to go live and I don't forsee having to alter what's already in place ... but I said that before (and made a few major changes since). Actually if I do get round to extending the split linking function to multiple conversions, alterations will have to be made to existing subtemplates (this wouldn't affect the performance of existing transclusions though so we are ready to go live either way).

So,

<noinclude>
[[Category:Subtemplates of Template Convert]]
</noinclude>

, that's seventy bytes per subtemplate. Any one transclusion of the new Convert relies on at least five subtemplates (mulitple conversions can more than double this). A rough guestimation puts the cost of this categorisation at something like a ten to twenty percent increase in pre-expand size. Would Category:Subtemplates of Template Convert have any further use after the protection bot had been through?

Categorisation of templates makes good sense—editors can find the template that they need. Subtemplates are generally subroutines of their main template, right, not generally to be transcluded directly (except maybe by the cluey but they can generally find their way, I'd assume). I don't really see the sense in categorising subtemplates ... we can list them like this. I wonder whether I should bring this up with the Wikipedians in general and Bryan Derksen in particular. J ɪ m p 03:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflicted) I didn't know about the pre-expand size increasing by 10 to 20 percent. However, my thoughts were to get a protection bot to sweap through the cat and protect everything. Problem is...I don't know of any protection bots. Do you? I can easily remove the category after pages are protected with my bot. —MJCdetroit 04:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's a guestimation as I say. I've only checked a few transclusions and it seems we're looking at about 2.5 kilobytes (it varies). If categorisation adds to this (it seems to, I'm no template expert though), then 70 bytes per subtemplate by five subtemplates per transclusion gives 350 bytes, i.e about 15% of 2.5 kB, per transclusion. Since reducing pre-expand size was one of my prime aims when designing this mousetrap I wouldn't be too keen on having it increased without some significant benifit. Unless we find that I'm wrong about the addition to pre-expand size (I don't think I am), yes, please have the protection bot remove the category as it goes ... or however the removal is to be done. Yeah, no, sorry, I don't know of any protection bot (being neither an admin nor a bot runner). J ɪ m p 04:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's the problem, I don't know of one either.—MJCdetroit 04:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template Convert protection

Hi Jimp,
After I switch template convert back to the new version, would you mind if I temporarily downgraded the protection so that all users can edit (in this case revert) it if necessary? —MJCdetroit 00:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead. J ɪ m p 00:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now it's LIVE

You'll need to expand that explanation table at {{convert/doc}}. I would suggest stealing a much as you can from {{ConvertW}} and {{ConvertV}}. —MJCdetroit 03:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will steal ... for the time being. I've got something else besides the kind of table we've now got mind for the long run. J ɪ m p 03:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever is easiest and best. Question, when you replaced ConvertWeight, did you remember to |3unit= with a space? For example right now, I am swapping out ConvertVolume which uses a lot of US gallon to imperial gallon to Liter. Just wondering? I don't think the 3 unit conversions were common in ConvertW. —MJCdetroit 03:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. J ɪ m p 04:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Convert template

Apparently, you changed conversion templates at Greg Skrepenak and Canon PowerShot TX1 incorrectly. I am not sure what you were trying to do.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 00:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Unit display/doc

Hi Jimp, I saw you were trying to figure out something in Category:Unit display/doc. I created that file. If you have any questions about it just ask. P.S. I wanted to help with your work on {{Convert}} but got busy outside Wikipedia. -- PatLeahy (talk) 03:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not actually a category, it's a piece of template documentation, and as shoukdn't be in the category namespace. So I have copied it to Template:Unit display/doc, fixed the links, and nominated it for speedy deletion as an empty category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just put some of those up for WP:TfD —-- MJCdetroit (talk) 17:03, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Error in L to gal conversion template

I've used {{L to gal}} for quite a few motorcycle infoboxes (e.g. Honda Ruckus) and found it very useful. However, it displayed an error for US gallons if the second parameter was not defined. I fixed up {{L to gal/1}} and it seems to work now. This might be moot if {{Convert}} is taking over but I thought I'd let you know in case you want to check my work. Brianhe (talk) 17:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

sqmi ha subtemplate

Hi Jimp,
When you get a chance can you create a subtemplate for {{convert}} of sqmi ha? Also, could you explain how the subtemplate codes work? For example, what does each of the letters (u, n, j, b, h, o, etc) mean? Yea, some are self explanatory and some I can venture to guess, but it would be helpful to have them documented somewhere so that others (like me) could more easily produce some more subtemplates as needed. —MJCdetroit 15:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Had been meaning to explain how the template works. Sorry it's late in coming. I'll get onto it. sqmi ha is done. --J ɪ m p 18:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. No need to rush, but at the moment you're the only one with a complete understanding of the subtemplates. It would be in your benefit to not be the only one; no reason to work more than you need to. —MJCdetroit 18:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SI template

Jimp: Regarding the SI multiples template and this edit you made your stated purpose was to “allow μ= option”. I guess I don’t understand how to use the template because no matter what I type into the template fields in the Kilogram article, (µ µ µ mc), I can’t get the “µg” to display. Would you please change the entry in the Kilogram article so the “µg” uses the µ symbol? I much prefer the micro symbol (µ) over the Greek mu (μ). I come from a computer and typography background and understand the reason for the creation of the Unicode µ symbol in the first place. It should be the default option in the template IMO. Greg L (my talk) 03:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jimp: Thank you for the fix on the SI template. Regarding you post on my talk page, the µ sign was the beginnings of an effort to eventually encode math and technical symbols so computer systems can translate to other languages by understanding the meanings of characters. Another example of this for instance, is the special “Kelvin” symbol (K), which is different from the uppercase K (here's the two side-by-side: KK. Hardly anyone uses the special kelvin symbol because it looks so damn similar to the normal Latin K. You make a good point about Latin symbols for things like “mega” (M). The Unicode committee for practical (usage and compatibility) reasons left those alone—for now. Since the µ (micro) character looks quite distinct from the Greek mu (μ), all professionally typeset material and good Web sites use it vs. the mu. It’s what a trained eye expects. Greg L (my talk) 07:35, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Oh, another benefit of having computers understand the text, is in speaking it. I don't own a speaking algorithm myself with the capability (and don't know if one currently exists), but computers could use the special kelvin (K) character to read “36.9 K” as “thirty six point nine kelvin” rather than “thirty six point nine K.” The mu character (μ) is used for other mathematical purposes (such as representing a Möbius function) so using μ to represent µ (micro) would subvert the ability of computers to easily understand. Proper use of Unicode also gives computers the capability to convert unit symbols in print to their full unit names (“36.9 K” = “36.9 kelvin” or “45 µg” = “45 micrograms”), create lists, and other features I can’t imagine at the moment with much greater ease and reliability because computers won’t have to divine intent and meaning via context. None of these potential benefits are all that important to me. As stated above, my main point is that μ µ appear quite distinct from each other and typographically really stand out and look poor when the wrong one is used.
Again, thanks for your efforts on {{SI multiples}} and {{Convert/µW·h}}. I couldn’t imagine being able to easily parse and figure out how to make templates like that and really admire and appreciate those of we volunteers who are willing to quietly go about and help others by working on these templates. Greg L (my talk) 16:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jimp: Regarding your recent post on my talk page, I don’t know why micro and mu (µ & μ) were made to look different. I know that it’s been that way for a long time (at least to 1986). I use a Mac. It has long been that on a Mac, one uses the Symbol font to type Greek characters. But to type common math symbols, you can do it from the Mac keyboard in any font without having to go through the cumbersome process of going to a Windows-style character palette where you hunt for what you want. For instance, I can type “∆ 50 µΩ” with typographers’ quotes, the delta symbol, the ohm (omega or Ω symbol), non-breaking spaces, etc., all from the keyboard in seconds. That was option-[ for curly quote, the option-j option-space (for the non-breaking space), 5, 0, option-m, option-z for the Ω symbol, and shift-option-[ for the curly close-quote. At least since 1986, just typing option-m has yielded the µ symbol. And I’ve long seen that professionally typeset materials have the very same appearance for µg because typesetters all used film fonts (and later, digital fonts) from the same small group of professional font foundries. Greg L (my talk) 17:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

re: Template:Infobox Ship

I noticed that you've done several updates today to Template:Infobox Ship. But from what I understand from WP:SHIPS, that template is being deprecated and replaced with the template shown at Template:Infobox Ship Example.

From talk at WP:SHIPS, it appears that no one expects Infobox Ship to go away anytime soon because of how widespread it is used; but the long term goal is to migrate all articles using it to the newer one.

Disclaimer: I'm new to WP:SHIPS, and not a member of the project as yet. I just saw your updates and thought I would point this out in case you weren't aware as yet. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: your reply on my talk page ... I saw that on Infobox Ship's talk page too; but the deprecated/not deprecated talk is dated Jan 2006, almost two years ago, so I didn't weigh those comments too highly. I think the more current conversation at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ships#Deleting_obsolete_templates? is more relevant (at first it says Infobox Ship isn't going anywhere, but halfway down deprecating it is brought up). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note:I've archived the discussions in Infobox Ship's talk pages that were dated 2006, as they appear to be non-ongoing discussions and seem to conflict with more current conversations elsewhere. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

“tl” Markup

Jimp: What does the “tl” in {{tl|SI multiples}} stand for and is there an equivalent syntax to do the same thing with links to images? Greg L (my talk) 20:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FYI: Tl stands for Template link (per documentation at {{Tl}}. For images, are you wanting more than just insterting a colon ":" before the word Image in the image link? The nearest relative I could find for similar links to images is {{li}}; but that one adds several additional links related to the image, so may not be what you want. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, let’s see… How about this CG-genenerated image? Yup, the magic colon. I didn’t know about that one. Thanks Jimp. Greg L (my talk) 00:09, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Thanks to you both. Thanks Barek, for your above answer (that’s exactly what I was looking for) and thanks to you Jimp for your post on my talk page. Greg L (my talk) 00:15, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Format number

I hope I have a solution to formatting numbers you approve of. Please see this update, as well as the post immediately preceding that one. Greg L (my talk) 01:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

…and boy do some articles need it!

Jimp, check out this part of Font size. As far as I can see, this article has been using decimal-delimited formatting since this 1 April 2006 version. As you can see however, the article has been using simple spaces (not even the non-breaking type). I submit that Wikipedia could really benefit from an easy-to-use template. I took a peak at perl, it appears to be totally beyond my expertise. Would making one take a crap-pile of time? Greg L (my talk) 03:30, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The spaces appear to be non-breaking to me.

--206.54.145.254 (talk) 18:27, 24 December 2007 (UTC) (User:AlanH)[reply]

Oops, I guess many are indeed non-breaking. Some though, are simple-ass spaces, as shown in this subsection, Didot's point below:

* '''0.376 065 mm''' (0.0249% larger than Didot's point) — the traditional value in European printers' offices

* '''0.376 000 mm''' (0.0076% larger) — used by [[:de:H. Berthold AG|Hermann Berthold]] (1831–1904) and many others

* '''0.375 940 mm''' (0.0084% smaller) — [[Jan Tschichold]] (1902–1974), who used 266 points in 100 mm

* '''0.375 000 mm''' (0.2584% smaller) — proposed in 1975, but never adopted

Besides, my main point is that large spaces spaces (whether breaking or non-breaking) truly do look inferior. In the above example, the non-breaking nature wouldn’t matter; no one will set their browser window so narrow to need it. However, the plain ol’ spaces are—typographically wise—too wide and also produce strings that are no longer true, Excel-pasteable, numeric strings. My point also is that I wasn’t in search of examples of decimal delimiting when I stumbled across this article. Upon finding it, I noticed the delimiting method used in numeric strings and recognized it as a good show piece for something I’ve been advocating lately: a number-delimiting template.

It’s clear that the simple use of full-width spaces isn’t an uncommon technique whatsoever on Wikipedia. Even though the regular-size spaces are large and make numeric strings appear like separate values, it seems readers readily understand and adapt. This common-sense observation flies in the face of SMcCandlish and his reasoning for opposing a template. He wrote “It [delimited decimal strings] is not understood by most readers”. Hogwash. Many Wikipedia articles have displayed numeric strings for years that have had full-width spaces in them. So it’s obvious on the face of it that using em-based span control to delimit would make it even easier for readers to recognize and understand what they’re looking at.

I think Font size is a textbook example of how Wikipedia could benefit from a template for delimiting numeric values with proper-size, em-based pair kerning (span control). It would make editing much easier, harmonize numeric strings across articles, make numeric strings much easier to understand, make numeric strings look more professional, and make numeric strings true, Excel-pasteable numeric values. Greg L (my talk) 09:15, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jerry Beck's Not Just Cartoons: Nicktoons!: It could give enough info to create separate character articles

I found a book in the bookstore called Not Just Cartoons: Nicktoons! by Jerry Beck. I'm not going to buy it and join the project, but I will ask the other members to get the book so that they can add real world information about various fictional characters.

This makes the creation of separate articles for *many* fictional characters feasible. Having information about the development of the character will make the articles satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (fiction)

In this case, the source has a lot of information about Ren and Stimpy and one could possibly write separate articles for each character. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:39, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Convert st lb (lb/kg)

Merry Christmas and happy New Year Jimp,

Can the default be switched on this 'st lb' subtemplate so that it reads X st X lb (X kg/X lb)? I am not asking that it be done (yet), just if it is easily possible? I think that someone may have been hinting that the lb (X lb/... confuses them.

{{convert|13|st|7|lb|0|abbr=on|lk=on}} to produce 13 st 7 lb (86 kg; 189 lb)

Regards, —MJCdetroit (talk) 14:25, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merry Christmas & a happy New Year to you too MJCdetroit,

Yes, it can be done ... no ... it was able to have been done but no longer since it's already done and 'twas easy enough ... easier than typing this convoluted sentence. I'd thought that since the first was not really a conversion as such—merely expressing the same thing in different terms—it aught to come first but a cause of confusion, I can see that. P.S. it's {{convert/and/lb}} not {{convert/st lb}}, the latter gives you conversions to both stones and pounds, e.g. {{convert|100|kg|st lb}} gives 100 kilograms (16 st; 220 lb). J ɪ m p 19:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but Question #2: Is there a way to have convert display something like this: 185 pounds (13 st 3 lb/84 kg). Right now it only shows stones in the decimal way{{convert|185|lb|st kg}} 185 pounds (13.2 st; 84 kg) Regards, MJCdetroit (talk) 04:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, conversions to pounds & ounces and feet & inches. Of course, there is a way, always a way. The much awaited conversions the other way. Still in the planning phase, though (I'd thought that this should be easier but I think I thought wrong ... won't be hard though). J ɪ m p 16:45, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Back at ya (re formatnum or “delimitnum”

Jimp, nice to hear from you. My response to your post is here. Greg L (my talk) 20:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jimp: I’ve clarified and better-organized the “nutshell” on my talk page regarding a “delimitnum” template/parser function (magic word). Thunderbird2 reports that due to our lobbying and arguments, the momentum at MOSNUM is shifting our way. He has pledged to maintain “low key lobbying at MOSNUM.” Is the parser function a task that you’re still interested in undertaking? Greg L (my talk) 04:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

bleh

		The da Vinci Barnstar
		I thought I knew how to code complex templates... then I saw {{convert}}. This is for not going insane. —Random832 16:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar for template construction

		The Template Barnstar is bestowed upon you
		For the HUGH overhaul of {{convert}}. Wikipedia is better off for having you— the 800 lb (363 kg; 57 st 2 lb) gorilla of template construction— around. — MJCdetroit ^(yak) 00:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please verify

Jimp,
Could you please verify my copy, paste, and tweek technique of {{Convert/ha sqmi}}? That will also need the category added to it.

Also, could you create an explanation page of what all the sub template parameter letters mean? Some are ease to figure out, b= is base in an SI unit, where area is in sq meters, but others are not so easy. Like what is j=? In any case, an explanation page is very much needed. Thanks —MJCdetroit ^(yak) 18:03, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks okay ... did fix it though. Yeah, sorry for not getting around to that yet. This might give you a hint {{convert/unit}}. j = log₁₀(b) i.e. the logarithm of the conversion factor to the base SI unit used for default rounding. J ɪ m p 18:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It's been years since my last math class. That being said, how did you know to use 4 instead of 6? —MJCdetroit ^(yak) 18:47, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If j = log₁₀(b) then b = 10^j.

1 ha = 10⁴ m²

So for the hectare j = 4. For the square mile it's not so easy to figure out: you'd need a table of logarithms, a (decent) calculator, to be really good at arithmatic or a computer. I stick "1609.344" in A1 and "=log(A1)" in B1 in Excel. A1 is b & B1 is j. J ɪ m p 23:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I think I get. I think in your example it should have been "2589988.110336" in A1 because we are talking about how many square meters in a square mile and not about how meters in a mile. Thank again. —MJCdetroit ^(yak) 21:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please verify part deux: Population density

Hi again Jimp,

I've created a series of sub-templates based on population density. They are some what subdivided into a "/unit" and a "PD/unit". The "PD/unit" will added the words "inhabitants per unit X. Think that everything is correct but a second set of eyes (yours) can't hurt. However, I am getting one weird error/oddity with the /acre and PD/acre templates. They don't abbreviate like they should, i.e /acre and not per acre, etc—see below. Can you please proofread the following subtemplates? P.S. I haven't created any multiple sub templates yet, so no converting per acre into per sq km and per sq mile.

{{convert|100|/sqkm}} -> 100 per square kilometre (260/sq mi)

{{convert|100|PD/sqkm}} -> 100 inhabitants per square kilometre (260/sq mi)

{{convert|100|/ha}} -> 100 per hectare (40/acre)

{{convert|100|PD/ha}} -> 100 inhabitants per hectare (40/acre)

{{convert|100|/acre}} -> 100 per acre (250/ha)

{{convert|100|PD/acre}} -> 100 inhabitants per acre (250/ha)

{{convert|100|/sqmi}} -> 100 per square mile (39/km²)

{{convert|100|PD/sqmi}} -> 100 inhabitants per square mile (39/km²)

{{convert|100|/sqmi|/acre}} -> 100 per square mile (0.16/acre)

{{convert|100|PD/sqmi|PD/acre}} -> 100 inhabitants per square mile (0.16/acre)

{{convert|100|/acre|/sqmi}} -> 100 per acre (64,000/sq mi)

{{convert|100|PD/acre|PD/sqmi}} -> 100 inhabitants per acre (64,000/sq mi)

{{convert|100|/ha|/sqkm}} -> 100 per hectare (10,000/km²)

{{convert|100|PD/ha|PD/sqkm}} -> 100 inhabitants per hectare (10,000/km²)

—MJCdetroit ^(yak) 16:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Convert//ha (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Convert//acre (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Convert/PD/acre (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Convert//sqmi (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Convert/PD/sqmi (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Convert//sqkm (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template:Convert/PD/sqkm (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Thanks. I've checked the above & made some adjustments: hyphens & singular for h (this is for adjectives) and exact figures (i.e. fractions) for b (do you calculations with excat figures and round at the end).

On a different note, metric ton vs metric tonne. Well, neither are terms we use in Austrtalia, so I'm wading a little out of my depth perhaps, but in (current) English there is no other tonne than 1000 kg so the metric bit in metric tonne would be redundant. On the other hand, the metric bit makes perfect sense if you're considering the tonne to be a kind of ton to be distinguished from the short and the long ones.

Well, there's glory for you (as Humpty might say) but it'll be a cold day in Hell before the English language conforms to "logic", so I Googled the terms. Metric ton won by about 5:1.

J ɪ m p 00:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How did you come up with the fraction (78125/316160658)?

Here in the U.S. and in Canada, a ton is 2000# for 99% of the population unless you work on boat or just got off of one (the last part was sarcasm that you may not get). 1,000 kg, when it is mentioned, it is always referred to as a "metric" ton or metric tonne. Have you ever seen the movie, Austin Powers? Powers describes "fat bastard" as weighting a metric tonne. I do agree that metric tonne is a little redundant for the folks who are used to tonne. But having metric in front does help some of my fellow yankees. In my personal opinion, I think that having "tonne" by itself maybe viewed incorrectly as the "British way" of spelling ton; much like program vs. programme. That's probably why we always hear the term metric t... If you want to switch it back to ton, it wouldn't upset me in the least bit. I was just trying to use the tonne term with the metric term. —MJCdetroit ^(yak) 02:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd been meaning to see that movie. Some interesting points there. Yeah, tonne mistaken for some British spelling of ton, I could see that ... of course, links and/or context (especially other metric units) might help to clear that confusion up ... if it's not already obvious from the fact that this is a conversion (likely to or from a short and/or long ton). We've got three possible terms:

tonne
metric ton
metric tonne

I prefer 1, 2 is a distant second but I'll cope with it in the appropriate context, as for 3 ... it just seems plain wrong like dairy milk, aquatic fish, feline cat, etc. Though, it's not as if it's never used ... chai tea ...

So, interesting arguement for metric tonne over tonne but what about metric tonne vs metric ton? You write you "always hear the term metric t..." Actually, what do you hear, metric tonne (rhyming with gone) or metric ton (rhyming with gun)? I haven't spend long enough in North America to guess the answer and Google says only so much.

What are our options, then? It seem to me that we've got two reasonable options at hand.

a. We could make allowances for all three.

b. We could choose between metric ton or metric tonne.

If it's to be b. then perhaps my talk page ain't the place to decide which (nor even convert's talk, we should take it to WT:MOSNUM). I don't think that disallowing plain tonne is an option: this is the normal name for the unit outside North America neither metric ton or metric tonne is ever used in Aussie English. J ɪ m p 03:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An acre is a furlong by a chain. A chain is 22 yards & a furlong 220. A yard is 0.9144 metres. so an inverse acre is

10000⁄9144×10000⁄9144×1⁄22×1⁄220 m⁻²	= 1250⁄1143×1250⁄1143×1⁄22×1⁄220 m⁻²
	= 1250⁄1143×125⁄1143×1⁄22×1⁄22 m⁻²
	= 625⁄1143×125⁄1143×1⁄11×1⁄22 m⁻²
	= 625×125⁄1143×1143×11×22 m⁻²
	= 78125⁄316160658 m⁻²

J ɪ m p 03:55, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's ton pronounced like 'gun'. Like I said, I prefer having the term metric before ton/tonne. I am kind of indifferent about ton/tonne, but your arguement is making lean toward 'ton' for an unseen/stated affect that metric tonne may have on editors removing the "metric" part. That being said maybe I should revert that spelling change. —MJCdetroit ^(yak) 04:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hyphens

Thanks for the heads-up. 4u1e (talk) 10:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hard spaces again

Progress, yes? Hope to see you there, Jimp.

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 07:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

TfD nomination of Template:Aust Beer Glass

Template:Aust Beer Glass has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. -- Mark Chovain 08:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conversion template

Thanks for your note. Can you tell me why it's been removed though? Thanks AreJay (talk) 12:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind...I realize why it was removed now. Thanks! AreJay (talk) 12:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]