User talk:Jayen466/Archives/2024/November
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November 2024 Amsterdam attacks
Hi Jayen466, we were both editing the same section on this page, still I think it is important to better mention Mairav Zonszein's statement and its background (i.e. in the context of the Hartman Institute). Also, even though the reference you included only mentions her concern about the use of the term pogrom, she was also concerned about the term anti-Semitism in this context. I don't see why we have to select part of her statements and not others (and I don't know why the reference you have used filters out part of her opinion). Where possible it is better to respect the original sources than what others may select from them. Happy to discuss if you have other opinion. AyubuZimbale (talk) 15:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi AyubuZimbale, I sympathise with your sentiment, but Wikipedia generally only reproduces what secondary sources (books, journals, newspapers etc.) are saying and quoting.
- To expand the quote and mention her Shalom affiliation, you would have to find a secondary source (newspaper) quoting her tweet in full, and mentioning that other affiliation as well.
- Otherwise you will probably find that someone will come along and delete the passage as original research – it won't "stick". That is why I went looking for a newspaper source.
- Quoting X directly is generally frowned upon (see WP:TWITTER). You could argue that as the source I found for her statement is linking her tweet it should be fine for us to do so as well and to quote more from the tweet than the Dutch paper is quoting, but I'm not sure that view would gain consensus. Kind regards, Andreas JN466 15:25, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your detailed and kind explanation. Mairav Zonszein is mentioned by https://www.hartman.org.il/person/zonszein/ Apologies about the X social network link, I did not know about that. AyubuZimbale (talk) 15:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- AyubuZimbale I'm not sure why you have reverted my correction, it is perfectly clear it is Dr Marc Owen Jones, the academic of Bin Kalifa University in Qatar. because it specifically states so in the article. have you read the National article carefully? see the Achieve. The more well known Owen Jones the journalist is nothing to do with this article. If you are referring to anything what the journalist has said you need a completely different reference. Please revert it back Andromedean (talk) 12:37, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Andromedean There are two different National articles and two different Owen Joneses. This is the National article currently cited in the Wikipedia article:
- https://www.thenational.scot/news/24712660.sky-news-deletes-tweet-israel-football-fans-chating-racist-slurs/
- It quotes the journalist Owen Jones, who said this on Twitter: [1]
- You are talking about this article, which quotes the academic Marc Owen Jones:
- https://www.thenational.scot/news/24716351.media-coverage-amsterdam-football-violence-ridiculously-skewed/
- Do please add his quote to the article as well, but do make clear in the text that they are really two different people! It is quite a coincidence. Best wishes, Andreas JN466 12:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, if you are going to edit the passage, it might be best to use the full quote from Owen Jones' tweet as well:
- "In the world we live in, if you condemn racist fanatics literally relishing in the mass slaughter of children, then you will be branded a hateful bigot. Gaslighting isn’t strong enough a word to describe what this is."
- At present, there is only an excerpt from it, which doesn't give the full flavour. (It is quoted in full in The National.) Regards, Andreas JN466 13:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, if you are going to edit the passage, it might be best to use the full quote from Owen Jones' tweet as well:
- @Andromedean I did not revert anything related to Owen Jones. If that it the case (I don't think), it was an error. AyubuZimbale (talk) 17:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @AyubuZimbale The user addressed you by mistake – they were talking about an edit of mine. Best, Andreas JN466 18:01, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Andromedean I now have restored the content you added (do check the wording and edit it further if you feel anything is missing: [2]). Sorry for the mix-up and thanks for providing the Marc Owen Jones source – I should have looked for it myself earlier but was a little pressed for time. Best regards, Andreas JN466 18:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- AyubuZimbale I'm not sure why you have reverted my correction, it is perfectly clear it is Dr Marc Owen Jones, the academic of Bin Kalifa University in Qatar. because it specifically states so in the article. have you read the National article carefully? see the Achieve. The more well known Owen Jones the journalist is nothing to do with this article. If you are referring to anything what the journalist has said you need a completely different reference. Please revert it back Andromedean (talk) 12:37, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
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Feedback on talk about November 2024 Amsterdam attacks
Hi. I saw that you were also contributing to this page, and you have more experience with wikipedia. There is an ongoing discussion (What individual reactions are WP:DUE) and (WP:DUE and the inclusion of ‘Erev Rav’ statements). My opinion is that additional content beyond government responses is relevant such as: opinions of political parties other than the government in the Netherlands (I have added one), and two NGO's opinion (civil society organisations that cancelled a local Kristallnacht commemoration due to ‘violent’ Maccabi supporters...). However, both are marked as WP:DUE by another editor. I don't have that much experience to evaluate on my own the situation and in particular ‘WP:DUE’, and my understanding is that both are relevant information as I tried to explain on the article's discussion page. I would need a second opinion, if possible. Thank you. AyubuZimbale (talk) 22:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
Feedback request: Biographies request for comment
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Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, Gerda! Liebe Grüße, Andreas JN466 16:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
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