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Hello, Itspeeebs, and Welcome to Wikipedia!

Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask at the help desk, or place {{Help me}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to help you get started. Happy editing! EvergreenFir (talk) 05:28, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit

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I looked on the Space Rangers page for this edit [1] and is indeed listed there, I can't revert any longer. Editor seems to disagree. If you agree let me know, in addition the Sesame Street edit was indeed fine as well. Magical Golden Whip (talk) 18:55, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I personally cannot attest to the original Space Race shorts airing on public TV. Based on the Business Wire reference, it seems it was a "web series" but there is no mention of PBS, PBS KIDS, or public television at all. I believe this piece of information was first inserted by SpaceRacersFan14, who may or may not be showing a bit of favoritism in some of their edits. This same editor frequently adds "PBS KIDS" to the Space Racers Wikipedia article, which is technically not accurate, since it was distributed by APT, not PBS proper. Removing the "Space Race" entry from the list might be a valid edit, since it doesn't appear to have ever aired on public TV.
I wrote the initial Sesame Street note, so obviously my preference would be for that phrasing to be retained. Simpler is better. Editor argued their revision was for precision, but they removed the actual date which makes it more ambiguous and less specific, in my opinion. I'll see if I can reduce the extra verbiage. Itspeeebs (talk) 01:44, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay thanks, this helps then. Magical Golden Whip (talk) 02:05, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mecha Builders

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Hey there, figured I'd elaborate on the Mecha Builders article situation further.

Your original edit to the article claimed a specific premiere date, that was sourced using an Instagram post and the homepage of a PBS station. While Instagram is generally unaccepeted as a source, the post linked doesn't explicitly state a premiere date, so I don't see how it can be of any exception.

However, as your edits were in good faith, I updated the phrasing to exclude a specific premiere date, and found sources to confirm that it *began* airing on PBS Kids stations in May 2024. You'll see that my sources were https://kamu.tamu.edu/a-new-schedule-for-pbs-kids/ and https://web.archive.org/web/20240727035024/https://tv.azpm.org/schedules/episode/279354/ -- an archive of the month's schedule, which I grabbed myself.

You proceeded to undo my edit, claiming you found better sources - but you simply recycled the ones that I added. The only difference being, the archive of the tv.azpm.org schedule. So, you hijacked the sources I added, but also brought it back to square one, because neither of those can used to claim the show premiered *on* May 13, 2024.

If you can find a reliable soure that actually states the premiere date, by all means, add it. Otherwise, yes, your edits were low-quality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tvfunhouse (talk • contribs) 18:58, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Tvfunhouse.
May 13, 2024 is the earliest broadcast date for Mecha Builders on PBS. Providing one specific source to show that is proving to be quite difficult, but that can be said for many public television series. I'm a stickler for dates, and I'd love to provide a single source that confirms the date.
That's why I switched your AZPM link with my AZPM link. You're correct that my link does not indicate May 13 as the premiere date, but it doesn't make sense to reference a random broadcast date for the third episode either. That's why I reverted your edit. I simply pulled the archived page for the first episode on the earliest date of broadcast. I've researched countless PBS show airdates over the years, and AZPM is a common point of reference. I'm not hijacking anything from you, nor am I copy-pasting your hard work. Sorry if what I did is viewed as a low-quality edit. Can you see where I'm coming from?
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6hQr0WsBlq Here is evidence of the first premiere date. It's Instagram, but being backed up with the AZPM link I provided, I would think using both references should settle this. Itspeeebs (talk) 19:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can't put something on Wikipedia, even if you personally know it to be true, without a proper source. That defeats the purpose of the site's existence and the point of making edits. My source did not reference a "random broadcast date," and I encourage you to look at it again. It serves as a source that shows *Mecha Builders has been airing on the station and began doing so in May 2024.* However, like I've said, there is no explicit indication of May 13th being the premiere. Therefore, that source was correct, per the wording - "In May 2024, the series began airing in the United States on the PBS Kids channel." You simply knowing that it started on the 13th is not the same as having a reliable, published source for the info.
If you're going to add that the show premiered on a specific date on PBS Kids, the 24/7 channel no-less, you need to find a reliable, published source for that information that adheres to any applicable Wikipedia guidelines. I trust you make these edits in good faith and know what you're talking about, but I feel making the edit with sources that are unclear at best isn't helpful.
Additionally, the point of multiple sources is not to "back up" one another or bridge things together.
For the time being, I think that portion of the article should remain as it is until, hopefully, better sources emerge. Otherwise I'd be happy to invite an admin to review the edits for the sake of some neutral input. Regarding the Instagram post, I'd recommend reviewing WP:SELFSOURCE. It's better than the previous Instagram link but I still don't think it's very strong as a source. Tvfunhouse (talk) 21:17, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've looked at your AZPM source -- trust me lol. "It serves as a source that shows *Mecha Builders has been airing on the station and began doing so in May 2024.*" Actually, no it doesn't. It simply lists five AZPM airtimes for the third episode. No indication that it began airing in May.
Again, it doesn't make sense to reference the third episode. You seem to be adamantly opposed to using the first episode as the reference. The claim is about the public TV premiere date, so that is why I referenced the first episode. Why did you choose the third episode? It seems random to me.
Thank you for pointing out all the guidelines and policies. It's always good to keep them in mind when editing. However, please know that I'm aware of them and how Wikipedia operates for the most part. The reason this discussion is happening is because there is an apparent lack of direct evidence, and I'm trying to work within the flexibility of WP:SELFSOURCE. The Instagram link is from the official PBS KIDS account. They're explicitly announcing the premiere date in the form of an promotional post. It may not be a "very strong" source, but if you're not willing to accept that as a reliable source in the absence of any other references, then the entire sentence may as well be deleted. Itspeeebs (talk) 22:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine, I'll bite. Using AZPM, and only the airing of the first episode, is there any indication that the show *premiered* on May 13, 2024? No, there is not.
But can you objectively say that the show *began airing in* May 2024, using AZPM? Yes.
Anything else? And yes, I agree the PBS Kids airdates should be deleted from the list of they cannot be sourced. Like I said, this is the entire point of Wikipedia. Tvfunhouse (talk) 22:47, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is not a single webpage from AZPM that objectively states when the series premiered. It takes more than one webpage from AZPM to surmise that information based on the airdates of each episode. That's another reason why I am in support of using the reference for the first episode. It is a simple way to lean into the fact that May 13 is the precise date, without having it spelled out for us. In conjunction with the other sources, it all adds up to a solid conclusion of when the premiere occurred. I will ask again, why did you choose to reference the third episode instead of the first?
You're agreeing to something I never suggested. I'm only discussing the specific third episode reference and the premiere date.
If we can't reach an agreement to include the Instagram source (which explicitly calls out the premiere date, albeit with questionable verification per policies), we should compromise by deleting the sentence "In May 2024, the series began airing in the United States on the PBS Kids channel" altogether. Do you agree with this compromise? Itspeeebs (talk) 00:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, having to "lean into" an piece of information "without having it spelled out for us" goes against the entire point of having sources.
Not sure what is unclear to you here. It has nothing to do with the third episode summary that is also on the page. I've already explained to you, the purpose of this source is the previous air schedule (literally on the page) demonstrates the show beginning to air *in* May 2024. It doesn't need to have a premiere date to confirm that, therefore it was used to rewrite the sentence/resource. I've explained already.
You seem to be having a tough time on this. As I've said, I'm happy to have a neutral third party editor review the article, or you can find a reputable source that the show premiered on May 13, 2024. Tvfunhouse (talk) 08:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you think the AZPM archive on the 13th works better, than whatever. But nonetheless, it's not explicitly stating that it's the premiere on the page, and Instagram as a source is tricky. I wouldn't prefer the sentence gets removed, but sourcing will continue to be a challenge because PBS never mentioned it in any press releases/promotional material aside from social. Tvfunhouse (talk) 08:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey there Itspeebs,
Per third opinion/active disagreement procedures, I'm just dropping you a heads-up that I've listed our dispute regarding the premiere date of Mecha Builders to receive a third opinion review. Hoping some outside input/review can help us both out here!Tvfunhouse (talk) 03:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi guys, I’ve stopped in from the third opinion page to register my opinion here; it’s not a binding resolution, but hopefully it helps you a little to reach a consensus.
So by my research/reading, the show clearly did premiere on PBS Kids on May 13, 2024. I find the Instagram post linked by Itspeeebs to be quite trustworthy to my eyes, and this date is also backed up by other user-published sources. However, Tvfunhouse is correct that this date is not backed up by an independent, reliable source.
I find this to be a bit of a verification “grey area” that I myself have also run into when writing articles. If this were me, I would have likely used the Instagram post as a source and included the date, to further reader understanding on a fact that is unlikely to be challenged.
However, I also understand when including info such as this that if the material in question is challenged, that it will not have much of a defence to fall back on and will likely be removed. Since the material is being challenged by Tvfunhouse, I would say that the “May 2024” compromise would be my preferred option here. I agree that removing the sentence would feel wrong.
Thanks for letting me chime in and hopefully we can reach a better consensus here. StewdioMACK (talk) 22:36, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Between the Lions

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