User talk:Iadmc/Demo album

1. What is a demo album?
2. Is The Roxx Regime Demos a demo album?
3. Is Nebraska a demo album?
4. Is Concrete a demo album?
5. Are Anthology 1, Anthology 2 and Anthology 3 demo albums?

• Explain why you answer as you do in all cases by drawing from reliable sources but ignoring the WP articles (which as we know are not reliable sources...)

I don't mind how many editors end up on this page. Just try to remain WP:CIVIL and follow the sources. Eventually, the presently blank page attached to this talkpage could, perhaps, replace the present redirect Demo album and/or help expand Demo (music) --Jubilee♫clipman 22:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• The term 'demo album' could be used to refer to either (i) a set of demos, recorded for demonstration purposes and not intended for release (this is the generally accepted use of 'demo', see [1], [2], [3]),(ii) a self-released album, this terminology particular used in metal circles but barely anywhere else, where such albums would simply be described as 'self-released' - sometimes such albums are intended as 'demo albums' in the sense that they are aimed at attracting record company attention,[4][5][6] or (iii) a commercially released album containing material originally intended as demos. 2-4 above fall into the third category, and 'demo album' would not be an accurate description. The Anthology series contain all sorts of odds and sods including outtakes and alternative versions, and are also not 'demo albums'. If you're asking this in relation to the notability guidelines, my firm belief is that 'demo' there refers to the first category above. Commercially-released albums, whether self-released or collections of material recorded as demos, should be treated like any other commercially released album. They should certainly not be deleted simply because a guideline states that 'demos are generally not notable'. --Michig (talk) 11:40, 8 May 2010 (UTC) I should add that I think the 'Demo albums' category should be deleted since genuine demo albums are few and far between - more relevant categories could be 'Self-released albums', 'Demo recordings', and 'Albums containing demo recordings'.--Michig (talk) 11:55, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Your three definitions are more or less correct, IMO, and I am pretty sure that the RS's will bear them out (I'll get on to that soon). Therefore... "'demo album' would not be an accurate description [of items 2–4]" seems to contradict your inclusive definitions unless you are suggesting (as I suspect you are) that (i) is the only truly valid definition (i.e. the one most often put forward by those RS's that discuss such things in detail).
  • I'm not sure that category:demo albums should be deleted, per se, just that it should be correctly used: the present lead states "Albums that were recorded as demos." The Roxx Regime Demos, Nebraska and the Anthology series were not recorded as demos, they were compiled from demos; a subtle distinction, I know, but an important one, I feel. Concrete, however, is more complex: it appears that it was recorded as a demo and intended as a first album (i.e. it was recorded to showcase the band who hoped the album would be good enough for release) but it was only released as an official album years later. (The article is unsourced, however. Fear_Factory#Concrete helps fill in some of the gaps even though it is also mostly unsourced.) Concrete might be a "demo album" under your (i), therefore, depending how you look at it.
  • BTW, this page is the result of various AfD debates citing WP:MUSIC's advice concerning "demos" and of the continuing discussions on various talkpages. I am still trying to get my head round this following those. Thanks for your thoughts! --Jubilee♫clipman 22:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
    • My I suggest that many of the AfD debate responses took the nominator at face value and hence the response. In this regard the actually specifics of WP:NALBUMS are irrelevant if people don't read it, or understand it, or put it in context - i.e of it being a guideline. IMO the detail of Wikipedia policies and guideline frequently pass people by. Of course that is an plus point to avoiding instruction creep, and generally standardise etc. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 00:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
    • To clarify, I identified three different usages of 'demo album', the only one of which I believe to be valid being 'an album that was recorded and released for demonstration purposes'. Demo recordings are generally not any kind of 'album'.--Michig (talk) 07:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
  • One other important fact: Rich Farmbrough made a change to WP:NALBUMS, here that might have escaped our attention. I personally fully agree with and endorse that change but others might not --Jubilee♫clipman 23:19, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
    • I agree with Michig on the definition of Demo Album. In answer to the specific albums my current understanding is that none of them are demo albums. In regards to reliable sources the burden is on those who believe it is a demo to provide. In the case of The Roxx Regime Demos, this cited source says "demos from" indicating that the album contains demo recordings, but does not say the album itself is a demo. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 00:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)