User talk:Humus sapiens/archive17

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Humus sapiens. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Matrix - Zion

Hi I submitted the Matrix (movie) info for the Zion page and just want to clarify then.

Maybe I wasnt too accurate in my description? Maybe it should be under a new heading "Zion in popular culture" or smthng?

The statement is true however, that Zion is the city for the "freed" humans in that movie/trilogy where they are all enslaved. Obviously this is not a coincidence, seeing all the other references to cultural and historical names and persons such as "Trinity" or "Nebuchadnezzar".

If there's a better way to write it please do. Or delete it if you dont think its appropriate. I do obviously tho think it is.

Cheers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.242.130.70 (talk) 02:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

My note was not about your statement per se. We need a reference confirming that "this is not a coincidence". See WP:A. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 10:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Template in History of the Jews in China

I tried to insert two templates "History of China" and "Jews and Judaism" side by side at the beginning of the article. However, there is a vast section of empty space towards the left of the first template. Although the space disappears when one clicks on a link on either template, the beginning of the article looks, at first, horrible. Please take a look at it. Count de Chagny 02:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I reviewed your edits; thank you for your efforts! Count de Chagny 00:49, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Once again, thanks. Count de Chagny 19:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

A "new" category that is not new.

Hi Humus, Shavua Tov: I have a question. I have just come across Category:Jewish diaspora, which someone claimed was a "new" category, but unbeknownst to him when he created it as "new" in July 2006 [1], the category was actually voted for deletion in October 2005, see Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 October 16#Category:Jewish diaspora. What is the procedure in such a case? Can it be automatically deleted or does it need to be resubmitted all over again? Thanks for your help. IZAK 10:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It's been taken care of now. IZAK 03:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)

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Пан Хуммус, take a look at http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0 and http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%2C_%D0%91%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2_%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87 There seem to be some neonazi activities going on....Galassi 07:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Cantonists

Russian Orthodoxy required CONVERSION of Catholics (Lutherans were generally trusted up the hierarchy).Galassi 07:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Ashkenazi Jews page collage

A discussion is now going on there. M.V.E.i. has reverted three times. I am not going to do so. --Metzenberg 17:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I placed no license tags on Image:Ashfamo1.JPG and Image:Ashfamo1.JPG because there was no information about the photo of Grigory Perelman that was used in the two collages. This photo appears to have been a wire service photo, and is not in the Wikimedia Commons. Please be prepared to judge as an administrator what the proper course of action is. I am simply questioning whether this editor can in fact license these collages as his own creations when he appears not to have the right to use one of the images the collages contain. I do not know whether a Wikipedia editor is allowed to remove a no-license tag this way, or what the rules are for providing such information. I do not like edit wars. --Metzenberg 08:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I gave the information there already. All the photos, just like the ones in your image, are takey from Wikimedia, their a public domain. If you do not like edit wars then get of me. You started it and your just not stopping. I offerd a compromise, but you ignored ur. All the photos are taken from the English-Wikipedia, except Perelmans photo, taken from the Russian wikipedia. The game you play is low. You play it poor little polite guy but yet ignored my offer of compromise, and ignoring complitely my right to edit and starting an Edit War against me. I showed this photo to many people, everybody said its excelent and no one said it was sexist (And i asked more girls than boys), so stop this show. M.V.E.i.

(outdent) Hi! I've protected the page and am asking everyone involved to discuss the matter on the talk page. I noticed an earlier edit had a picture of Albert Einstein with his tongue sticking out, I'm going to assume that was a mistake and everyone involved is using good faith and I'm forgiving WP:3RR issues with a warning given the newness of some of the editors involved. Although I understand there's a big difference between a POV that would pick an Adin Steinsaltz and one that would pick a Leon Trotsky as representative, still, it strikes me that both choices are within the possible range and hence this should be regarded as a legitimate edit dispute to be discussed. Best, --Shirahadasha 17:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

User M.V.E.i. made more than three reverts on May 7, 2007, editing under the IP address 62.90.101.55. User M.V.E.i. was informed about the three revert rule by Humus_sapiens in a previous exchange on May 4, 2007. The following is a list of the four reverts on May 7, 2007:

I'd like to ask that the other collage be used during the period of the edit dispute, that the page be reverted to version [[2]] by User:Humus Sapiens while the page is locked pending resolution of the dispute, since this user has clearly violated 3RR. --Metzenberg 19:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I must say that I agree with Metzenberg: the current (protected) image collage in Ashkenazi Jews is unfortunate because (aide from licensing issues and lack of consensus) it shows them as misogynistic bunch of freaks. I left a message at WT:JH#Image collages in Jew, Ashkenazi Jews, American Jews. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Arent you tired of basing yourself on lies? THERE ARE NO LICENCE PROBLEMS, there all public domains from Wikipedia. And its not misogynistic, i didn't even think what sex are those people when i did this image! P.S. Your photo is lame populism. M.V.E.i. 19:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

American Jews collage

Another (different) new editor is adding images here. In the absence of a collage that can remain fixed for relatively long periods, this is going to be a constantly changing mosaic of images that don't look balanced, with different sizes and poor composition. In short, it is not going to be encyclopedic if it is done this way.

But my real problem is with this editor's choices. Unlike M.V.E.i., this editor does believe that women belong in the collage, but only if they are young and pretty, the latest (or not so latest) pretty face. I don't think this editor has any sense of history. I'd like to see a serious choice that represents the achievements of noteworthy American Jews in the arts, literature, science, politics, religion, and so forth. I'm OK with immigrants if they made their contributions as American citizens, living in the United States. For example, Hannah Arendt belongs here, while Albert Einstein does not. --Metzenberg 09:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say i dont belive theres a place for women in tha images, i just said that in that for the Ashkenazi Jews image i didnt find one that fits, and those you offered are mostly b-class by recognization and contribution. M.V.E.i. 20:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is called discrimination and shows your POV. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 00:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Fake messianic image

Thank you for your kind words and please look at my latest comments here. --Steven J. Anderson 04:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Possible libelous article

Hi Humus, please take a look at the way the article about Rabbi Milton Balkany has been written by David Spart (talk · contribs) (who tends to write in a provocative way about Lubavitch). I am concerned that the Milton Balkany article may violate WP:LIBEL and open up a slew of problems. What do you think? Thanks for taking the time. IZAK 03:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Another image

Could you look here File:QapakhYoseiph.jpg? Same editor. I don't want to hound this guy or pick on him unnecessarily, but it looks like the image was tagged by someone and then untagged by the uploader without explanation, unless I'm reading the page or the history wrong. There's a warning about it on his talk page. Check the date against the image history. --Steven J. Anderson 01:11, 11 May 2007 (UTC) Again, I don't want to make this personal, but his other images could stand a look, too. --Steven J. Anderson 01:37, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Arch_gulag_cover.jpg

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Mediation Cabal Case Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-05-20 Al-Aqsa Intifada

You are an involved party in the MedCab case Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-05-20 Al-Aqsa Intifada. I see you are busy in real life, but you are still invited to join the mediation. GofG _|^|_| Talk 14:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for mediation

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Islam and antisemitism, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.--Sefringle 19:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Jesus

It is a historical documented fact.It is stated in both Quran and Talmud you know Talmud? Talmud condems Jesus.Perhaps I should have provided link.I will add the link in my next edit.I also notice that "God's chosen people" beleif has been removed.Vmrgrsergr 05:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually they didnt kill Jesus according to Quran.They thought they did but actually it wasn't.But the intention is the main factor no?I will cite the Talmud in the next edit when I have time.I will discuss the content of article later but not today where I will provide both talmud and Quran verses..Vmrgrsergr 05:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Statute on Jews

Thank you for your work on Statute on Jews, I did a straight translation from the French page, so evidently lots was missing! --Samtheboy ^(t/c) 18:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:DerSturmer stand.jpg

Hi, this image was listed on WP:PUI. Do you know a better source for this image? Since the two sources mentioned are like wikipedia in that regard. They just use the image and I couldn't find a mention on those pages where they got the image. Without the source the image will be deleted. Image:OctopusNAS1.jpg (also listed) does has a source and will obviously not be deleted. Garion96 (talk) 13:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I did found this regarding the images. But I still don't think it's specific enough. Will search some more. Garion96 (talk) 13:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Center for Monitoring the Impact on Peace (CMIP)

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Center for Monitoring the Impact on Peace (CMIP), by Michael Safyan (talk · contribs), another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Center for Monitoring the Impact on Peace (CMIP) fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason:

Title mispelled; correctly titled page moved to Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace

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Non-free use disputed for Image:Jewish People in the Fight Against Fascism.jpg

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Please respond on MEMRI talk page

Humus, I've left you a message on the MEMRI talk page which I hope you will read and respond to. Thank you, Jgui 13:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Islam and antisemitism.

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Deletion from Persecution of early Christians

Hi,

Given that my edit summary said "Let's discuss it on the Talk Page", I think it would have been more courteous you to wait for my explanation of my revert before reverting me. This kind of behavior is what leads to edit wars. Consider WP:BRD.

I had read your comment on Talk:Persecution of Christians and considered it. Have you read my comment on Talk:Persecution of early Christians? Please do so if you haven't done so already. Then please respond and discuss on either Talk Page.

My point here is that Wikipedia is not only about recording "facts". It's also about recording "what people believe to be fact". Any article which purports to be about "Persecution of Christians" or about "Persecution of early Christians" and does not mention the allegations of persecution by the Jews is woefully incomplete.

I have no problem with striking an NPOV stance and providing evidence that the NT account of persecution by the Jews is biased polemic on the part of the Christians. However, the allegations should be presented along with the refutation instead of just omitting discussion of the topic altogether.

--Richard 22:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Historical persecution by Jews

I have stumbled across the Historical persecution by Jews article. Looking over the edit history, I note that you removed the same large chunk of scriptural passages from that article that you have been removing from Persecution of Christians and Persecution of early Christians by the Jews.

I think this gives me a better understanding of what your position is.

I'm not convinced that I like the existence of the Historical persecution by Jews article at all. The purpose of that article seems to be a POV attack arguing that Jews are not always persecuted but have also persecuted others as well. This may be true but the very paucity of content suggests that this is a barely encyclopedic topic. The linkage between the Hasmonean dynasty, persecution of Christians and modern-day Israel is tenuous at best. If you agree, please help me figure out what the best course of action is regarding this article.

That having been said, I hope you will agree that the Christian belief that Jews persecuted of Christians is historical (NB: the belief is historical even if the actual persecution may not be). Blood libel against the Jews is also historical even if the alleged crimes are not.

--Richard 15:46, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

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Holocaust denial

Hi Humus Sapiens! Thanks for your feedback. It's a subject I feel quite strongly about, not just from the point of view of truth and historical accuracy, but also for the sake of the victims of one of the vilest chapters in human history. The day I'll take a lecture from people with edit histories like this and this on POV is the day I quit Wikipedia for good ;) EyeSerene^TALK 16:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

No, we haven't been through this.

Either you address point by point what the factual innacuracies are, or I shall ask for mediation of someone who isn't emotionally involved with the subject. --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 20:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I shall then kindly ask for the mediation of someone who isn't jewish, or emotionally involved with the subject since you refuse to discuss factual inaccuracies, claiming that I don't fully understand policy. I know it might be such a pain to address the "original research" but being an administrator doesn't make you better than me, and doesn't give you any authority to avoid discussion by referencing me to read policy. --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 21:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

You haven't written anything nor in the article's talk page nor in my page nor in yours. Too busy? I wonder if I could summon you to edit the article if I revert again... Are you to busy to provide a rationale for your deletion of the section, but not for deleting it? Hum, interesting. I think I shall revert to see if my theory is correct, and you only have time for reverts based on nothing --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 21:15, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

So now it's the time to call someone who criticises bias a Nazi? What do you imply by referencing the Yellow badge? Are you calling me a Nazi? Maybe you need to review WP:NPA and WP:CIVILITY. If your faith or ethnicity blur your judgment, it doesn't make me a Schutzstaffel member to point it out. I hope you can understand that and stop implying I have some sort of racial motivation to this. Be civil, right? Practise what you preach. --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 21:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying, for a moment you led me to believe that I had to do something with the Yellow badge. And I don't have a problem with any jewish user. I have a problem with bias, not with jews. If I was a turk denying the Armenian Genocide, you'd be sure to point out that my nationality was blurring my vision of history, right? Or if I, as a Mexican claimed that Mexico City is the best city in the world, that would sure raise some eyebrows among users that aren't Mexican, right? Apart from pointing out that there is a huge leap from me having problems with jews to you thinking about the yellow badge, I think that I am not being uncivil by KINDLY requesting mediation of someone who "isn't emotionally involved with the subject". I first mentioned emotional involvement, and then your refusal to discuss the subject with me made me reference your faith INSOFAR that you may have a cognitive bias (which we all have). Moreover, I only mentioned your faith and ethnicity. Being called "jewish" is not an insult, just as I wouldn't be offended if you called me "Mexican". --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 21:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I read the policies. Far-reaching assumptions aren't rare when you mention antisemitism in relation to my comments. Those assumptions are based on what was an unnecesary mention of a sign of antisemitism. Besides, if you want to stop this being "personal" suggest what sources you wouldn't object to in relation to Israel and the Gaza Strip. You still haven't said a word about the content of the article. --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 22:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

2nd half: [3] ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 22:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, then would you care to tell me what sources you consider authoritative in relation to Israel and Palestine PLEASE? I already prompted you to discuss the content in my last comment. --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 22:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

If this is not a game then would you care to talk about reliable sources in the talk page? Provide me with sources that are not unreliable to you so I can help write an encyclopaedia. Following your kind advice, I am reading something very interesting. Maybe you could read it as well? I don't know, maybe you don't need to read anything because you're so knowledgeable lol. --Teh Original Mr. Orange (Orange juice?) 06:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

RfC

Just wanted to let you know that I opened an RfC on my conduct during the Gary Weiss article dispute. You participated in the AfD discussion for that article in November, 2006. The RfC is located here. I look forward to any comments or questions you might have. CLA 23:15, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Response requested

Here. Unless you have nothing else to say. -- tariqabjotu 02:32, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Replied again. -- tariqabjotu 03:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

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Persecution of Christians by the Jews

Hi,

There is a discussion going on at Talk:Persecution of Christians by the Jews that is being moderated by User:Pastordavid. It was suggested that, before we discuss possible names for the article, we should establish first whether the article should even exist. I think it would be helpful if you expressed your opinion and engaged in the subsequent discussion.

--Richard 15:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

HS, I have closed the straw poll on whether or not keep the article with a slim consensus to keep. I felt, looking it over, that the major contributors to the page had all weighed in. If you feel it would be more appropriate, and AfD would generate a broader range of comments. If not, I would invite you to please pitch in on the ensuing discussion about the scope of the article -- personally I feel that your input would be invaluable in ensuring that we have the best possible outcome. Thanks. Pastordavid 22:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

You

I have read the guidelines

--Muriness 00:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

El Al Help

Hi - I dont know if you're still tracking the EL Al page...its a FA candidate and someone has objected on the grounds of the use of the word terrorist. I dont know if you're able to help with this - surely the use of terrorist is allowed especially in this context (Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/El Al -- Thanks --Flymeoutofhere 07:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XV (May 2007)

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This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 14:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

History of the Jews in Ukraine

Was it you who semiprotected the page? If so, you may be interested in this discussion. --Ghirla^-трёп- 20:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It's OK. I think the problem of coordinated attacks on English Wikipedia from fellow wikipedias have not been tackled as yet. It's difficult to neutralize an article when another-language wikipedia has a page which instructs its editors to "pay attention" to that particular article in English Wikipedia. Even our ArbCom is powerless to rule on what's going on outside this project. --Ghirla^-трёп- 09:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Antisemitism

Hello

Its important to me not to be called a vandal. calling me a vandal actually hurts, I in what I do on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects is to try to help as I could..that is the first time ever to be called a vandal, thus you can see I'm somewhat confused and sad.

You slapped me that vandal accusation without telling me why..why my edit reverted, beside 'please read the article before editing'..you can assume that I read the article before editing I guess, how else would I edit?..

Here is my edit:

Removed that line from the article: <ref>While the term's [[etymology]] may imply that antisemitism is directed against all peoples, it is in practice used exclusively to refer to hostility towards Jews.</ref>

Now, please tell me..is that a reference? is that a quote? if so, where is the book/whatever?

What I see is that this is just a personal opinion hidden inside a reference tag, it was added with the meaning, "Don't read the etymology section..it is just not correct, believe me"..which is dictating to the reader what to think and what to believe thus not neutral. so I just removed it.

I added "hostility or prejudice directed at Jews and other people of Semitic origins."

Now tell me what is my vandalism here? I merely mentioned that there are other people too whom they are from semitic origins..

thanks.--Alnokta 08:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

What do you think that warning means? I wasn't experimenting..but as you will keep manipulating the words, I will just leave it..not reverting you..I hope you are satisfied. thanks..--Alnokta 09:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The other half: [4]. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 10:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration

Hello. I've requested arbitration on the disagreement over the MEMRI page which includes you as an interested party. Currently at Wikipedia:Requests for Arbitration. Thanks, Jgui 15:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Babi Yar

I'm not going to claim that the term in Ukrainian is or is not offensive. But there has been some dispute.

FWIW, we have, as of 1940, a non-standardized or semi-standardized Ukrainian language, we don't know if our translator (German to Ukrainian) is a German, a Kiev Ukrainian, a Western Ukrainian, or something else, and we certainly don't know his dialect. We do know, or should know, that the vast majority of Kiev's Jews read Ukrainian as a third language, if at all.

The signs in Russian carry the slur, the German versions do not. The Ukrainian version, the only one that has been subject of this low-level edit war, is essentially irrelevant. The article loses nothing by its absence. Jd2718 22:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I've copied our exchange to the article's talk page. Discussion should continue there. Jd2718 22:44, 18 June 2007 (UTC)