User talk:Grutness/archive31

This file is an archive - please do not add new discussion here - add it to my Talk page

Stubstuff

The point of you adding articles with no content?

Randomly, I came across the article, created years ago by you. This is the entire content:

"Délices is a town in French Guiana."

What exactly is the point of adding this article? Have you been there? Do you know anything about the place? Is there any reason you suspect it might be notable?

I have a suggestion. Rather than creating a burden for other Wiki editors, why don't you go back and tag for deletion articles you've created where you don't have anything in particular to contribute?

24.130.9.210 (talk) 02:49, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's called a stub. What is the point of a personal attack against somebody for creating an article (several years ago) that needs to be expanded? Most articles need to be expanded, and maybe expanding the article would be a more helpful response. You're coming across as very rude. ~ JohnnyMrNinja 05:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed it is a stub. If you have any evidence that Délices is not a town in French Guiana, feel free to nominate it for deletion. If not, then may I suggest that even a one sentence article still tells the reader some information about the place, namely its location. Any other editor is free to add further relevant information if they know more. No, I haven't been there - if I had, I'd have had far more information to add. As it is, I added all I knew about it, a perfectly standard Wikipedian technique. May I suggest that if you can think of nothing better to do that to complain about an article , perhaps actually adding something to it might be a more appropriate thing to do? Unless of course, you know nothing further about the place yourself. perhaps you didn't even know there was such a place or where it was - if so, you have learnt something by finding that article. In which case, it is deserving of its place in Wikipedia. Grutness...wha? 12:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the answers. I understood, JohnnyMrNinja that the choice of words was blunt. But my feeling really wasn't "Gee, you know, this article could use some improvement." It was "This is remotely similar to vandalism". Not by intent, of course, but the result is not entirely dissimilar.

After looking over Grutness' recent contributions, I was impressed. So this has nothing at all to do with a personal attack. It does have to do with "shaking up" the notion that there's something inherently useful about a stub article. In this case, an article that has seven words, but has been edited five times since the year-and-a-half since its creation. Look plainly at what has been done.

You're quite right, Grutness, that I haven't been to Délices. But what's interesting is that I got very much the same responses (from another editor) about a stub article they had created -- about a place I have been and know something about. Their attitude was: "Ok, so it's not perfect, it's just a stub." I.e., it contributed to the count of the number of articles they'd created (a status symbol they frequently bring up in discussions), and they didn't really give a damn. That they didn't understand the subject matter at all didn't seem to bother them.

All right, so suppose I decide to take material directly from the place's own extensive Web site (effectively replacing everything Editor X wrote). That puts me in a confrontational situation with a "popular" editor, who is known to be involved in edit wars, and defends their turf with great attention and hostility. What the innocent stub accomplished in this other case is to freeze in place what I know is misleading information. A self-serving editor is hiding behing the stub tag.

Clicking "Random article" will soon bring up a 20 word article on some asteriod. The article was created by a program (some of them have programming artifacts where there's missing information). What has been accomplished with this article? It's made the "Random article" feature less useful, for a start. (No, please don't tell me thousands of Wiki readers are interested in an asteriod known only by a number.) This is a central point: There are other asteriod articles where someone has taken the trouble to choose which asteroids are notable, and explain why. (I just found Trans-Neptunian object.) The "junk" asteroid stub article makes it less likely a casual user will find the really interesting article.

If there was a search function that did not display any stub article, I would use it exclusively. I bet 95% of other users would, too.

Let me put it this way. If I was seeking to add many articles but stay within the letter of the law, I would flood Wiki with stubs from any published source. At a guess, I could write a program to add a million Wiki articles in 30 days. And they would all apparently be as good as 12384 Luigimartella, British Columbia Highway 22A, HMCS Qu'Appelle (DDE 264), or indeed Délices. Of course, I wouldn't have any idea whether much of it was true or useful, and it would be an incredible burden to other Wiki editors. But according to stub article advocates, I'd be a hero.

So, I will say in seriousness, if stub articles are not expanded within a reasonable period, it should be the responsibility of the articles' creators to return to them, and either improve, or recommend them for deletion. And I am serious that Délices should be marked for deletion, if for no other reason than nobody's given a citation or reference -- or has any personal experience with it. For all we know, it could be completely false. Or the village could now be called something else. Or the village could have been washed away in the Great Flood of 1943.

24.130.9.210 (talk) 19:35, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oookay... you raise a number of interesting points, but several of them are still counterable. First, Wikipedia is a repository of information. As such, even a short article can add worth to it as a body of knowledge. There may only be one fact listed about Délíces, but that still makes it a valid article - albeit a minimal one. And, containing as it does real information, it is inherently useful. As such, I can understand the comment of the other editor you mention. Let's face it, Wikipedia is intended to be a place where one person can add something, then another person comes along and adds more. It is not that other editors fault that (s)he did not know more about the place; more it was a cse that it was a valid start that editors who knew the place better (like you) could add to.

Though I try to get around as many of the articles I have written for Wikipedia (from stubs to Featured Articles), I simply do not have the time to regularly or even occasionally patrol all 2000 of them.

As for "Random article", that has long been a bone of contention, and there are frequent calls at the village pump to creat a similar system that ignores stubs. i for one would be all in favour of it. But the removal of unimproved stubs? No - that would reduce the size of Wikipedia by 40%, and though you might not find anything of use in knowing that a place exists and where it is, others may well do. Grutness...wha? 23:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've been thinking over what you've said. I don't see any one perfect solution, because, now that stubs exist, people see different values in them. I guess one question to ask is how many stubs are expanded in a reasonable period of time. Or how many are even accessed. And of those how many readers would rate the stub as interesting/valuable? I'd say: write a program to find all the duds...but even that's tricky...I wrote a fairly long article once that was immediately tagged as a stub. I didn't feel it was a stub -- it pretty much said what there was to say. But I would be willing to defend it against an AfD request. Maybe that's what a program should do -- contact the original editors and ask if they'd like to add more information or whether they'd like to AfD it. 24.130.9.210 (talk) 19:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How does one sort stubs?

I found the New pages special site and noticed that patrolling often is done without the addition of stubs or wikiproject talk banners to new pages. Would you be willing to teach me the ins-and-outs of stub sorting so that I could be of use on this frontier? (I have not created any more stubs, BTW.) --Wloveral (talk) 03:53, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You mean all those stubs are in your head when you go a-tagging? Is there no way to find uncategorized articles that contain give-away phrases (such as "is a city in Brazil") that could then be tagged with a Brazil-geo-stub, for example? I'll have a look at your pages and come back with more informed questions. Right now it is almost 02:00 h here in Brazil. Cheeers, --Wloveral (talk) 04:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My internet connection is too slow for stub sorting, but I can see its importance.--Wloveral (talk) 04:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RE: {{NEURO-stub}}

Hi there. I've commented on the correct stub type for deletion nomination and voted for deletion as it is no longer needed. I have explained it's original purpose there and that, now i've got a banner with parser functions, it's no longer needed. Good call! Regards, CycloneNimrod^Talk? 15:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Otherstuff

Your suggestions

Hi there, Thanks for you kind advice and suggestions which I have attempted to follow (check me please :-)) I will sit tight today and try to put up some more content tomorrow (some ex the DPL website) which hopefully won't be pulled off. Cheers, Paul. Paul151 (talk) 01:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

Hi Grutness, thank you, appreciated! XLerate (talk) 07:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for the laugh :)

I saw this edit and previous one and started laughing. Thanks. :) P.S. Sticking keyboards suck. :) Rockfang (talk) 06:34, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New Project

Myself and several other editors have been compiling a list of very active editors who would likely be available to help new editors in the event they have questions or concerns. As the list grew and the table became more detailed, it was determined that the best way to complete the table was to ask each potential candidate to fill in their own information, if they so desire. This list is sorted geographically in order to provide a better estimate as to whether the listed editor is likely to be active.

If you consider yourself a very active Wikipedian who is willing to help newcomers, please either complete your information in the table or add your entry. If you do not want to be on the list, either remove your name or just disregard this message and your entry will be removed within 48 hours. The table can be found at User:Useight/Highly Active, as it has yet to have been moved into the Wikipedia namespace. Thank you for your help. Useight (talk) 07:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You mentioned User:Kahuroa, User:XLerate, and User:Good Olfactory in NZ and User:JackofOz. I had already invited Olfactory; Kahuroa and Xlerate aren't active enough for the project, but I did send an invite to JackofOz, thanks for pointing him out. Useight (talk) 07:45, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:HAU/OC

Hello . The Highly Active Users project has gone through a complete revamping per popular demand. We believe this new format will make it easier for new editors to find assistance. However, with the new format, I must again ask you to verify your information on this page. With the extensive changes, I may have made some errors. Thanks again. bibliomaniac 1 5 01:51, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You will also need to add [[Category:Wikipedians who use StatusBot]] to your userpage in order for SoxBot V to automatically update your online/offline status. If you do not added this text, you will always be listed as "offline" at HAU. Thanks. Useight (talk) 02:55, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mahia Peninsula

Not claiming to know anything about NZ in particular; but should not the title of Mahia Peninsula be Māhia Peninsula? Asking here since you created the article. --Harald Khan Ճ 08:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Very well, thank you for your reply. --Harald Khan Ճ 14:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More map requests

You created a location map for me a couple of months ago, Image:NZ-Northland plain map2.png. Could you add to your long-term plan to create similar maps for each district in New Zealand? I'll be another month or so working on Northland, then I'll switch to another area of the country - I was thinking of Marlborough.

Also, I want to create a map of the locations of schools in Northland, similar to Image:NewZealandAirportsMap.png but based on the Northland location map. The density of schools in the Whangarei area is too great for this approach to work, and I was thinking of having a map with a second degree of zoom (ie New Zealand with Northland highlighted, then Northland with the greater Whangarei area highlighted, then the greater Whangarei area), but I tried a mockup and it looks clumsy. I think I'll use the Northland map for the schools other than those near Whangarei, and a separate map of Whangarei. My attempt at the base map is at Image:Whangarei map.png. I used m:WikiMiniAtlas for a location outside of the map area (so no red dot shows), and set the captions to Chinese (so no captions were available for the area) and took a screenshot. I could get a better screenshot I think if I customised WikiMiniAtlas to use a larger display window, but I'm sure you can produce a much better looking map of approximately the same area; would you mind doing so? Please upload any maps to commons, since I'll use them in both en: and mi:-gadfium 23:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. No rush, it will at least a few weeks before I need the Whangarei map, and about a month before I need the Marlborough one.-gadfium 00:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Date articles

Thanks for the link. I think that it's inevitable that the way will be cleared for a something like a 20th century Wiki project, with all 36,524 days of the century covered, but for now, I'll live with things as they are. Mandsford (talk) 02:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia talk:Centralized discussion/Removal of many individual date articles

Hey!

Thanks for the heads up on that discussion. The debate seems to be somewhat stale but I still gave my $0.02.

Peace! SWik78 (talk • contribs) 13:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Allow me to add my thanks for the heads up. You saved us a lot of trouble. TN‑X-Man 20:24, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

That is where i met you, but looking over your edit history and all the work you do for the place, i thought it was about time! You deserve it! Matt (talk) 00:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar moved to userpage, with thanks :)

Request

Hi Grutness; I remember you flattered me once by mentioning you would nominate me as an admin someday. When you have a moment, could you take a look at this and let me know what you think? Thanks, Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Disamb

Thanks for that. I was considering just having the largest settlement as the main page and then saying there ar also two settlements with the same name but I wasn't happy with this. What I found annoying was that it was taken to afd chiefly before we could properly discuss how to go about it. Obviously I've come across many places with the same name before but often the country I'm working on has clear fourth level divisions or small communes where rarely the villages lies in the same one. Hope you are well ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 09:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arsenal's cup final shirts

Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest they wore them for reasons of superstition - in 1979 and 1980, against Manchester United and West Ham respectively, Arsenal wore yellow as there was an obvious clash. Not sure about 1978 against Ipswich, but it may well have been as both teams had white shorts & socks. I removed the claim because it said Arsenal consistently wore yellow in cup finals for reasons of tradition or luck (when the likes of 1988 in the League Cup, as well as 1993 & 1998, all of which worn in red, disprove), which was patently false, and definitely not cited. Qwghlm (talk) 01:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Marlborough map

You suggested I ping you after a week. I'm working on Marlborough localities now, ahead of schedule. I can use the South Island map as a placeholder in the meantime.-gadfium 23:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I've added to several articles, and will use it in the 16 or so articles I plan to write in the next couple of weeks.-gadfium 01:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Piha Life Saving Club

Hi there, I've unmerged at your request. The reason I closed it as merge was because it was in the backlog, with three merge !votes with good reasons attached. Consensus thus was in the direction of a merge, so I closed it. Anyway, apologies; I'm still relatively new to this admin thing. :) I'll change the AfD's outcome to keep as you're willing to expand the article. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 01:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent, that's why we're all here. :) Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 02:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dabbing

Hi there Mr. Grutness. As you know we are preparing for the new Fritzpoll Bot which will aim to add over 1.4 million articles to wikipedia over the next few months. The missing lists have begun being drawn up by bot but could you give a hand in dabbing names or helping sort out appropriate titles for multiple places within the same district. What you suggested was a great idea with Togo but I'm uncertain as to how I would find which place is which are the distance to nearest settlements. What you consider coordinates in brackets in the titles acceptable? Could you help this worthy cause?

The entirety of the lists will be generated gradually ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 10:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Request comment

Please read Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/FritzpollBot#Suggestions_from_Ganeshk. The bot is about to create 1100 odd Afganistan geo stubs. I was suggesting the bot-owner to use state-level stub templates. That will need stub proposal though. Would you suggest we create a up-merged stubs templates for use with the bot? I was trying to reduce re-work, and getting the category splits accomplished on the first bot run itself. Please let us know your thoughts at the bot page. Thanks, Ganeshk (talk) 14:07, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dabbing

I don't know how I can do it. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places/armenia/page1. There are three places named Aygedzor and information on the district isn't available

Aygedzor,Aygedzor,Armenia x Yerevan, Armenia, 40, 49, 32,N, 45, 32, 27,E

Aygedzor,Aygedzor,Armenia x Yerevan, Armenia, 39, 27, 46,N, 46, 24, 55,E

Aygedzor,Aygedzor,Armenia x Yerevan, Armenia, 38, 58, 0,N, 46, 13, 0,E

♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 21:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bot approved: dabbing help needed

Hi there. Fritz bot has been approved at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/FritzpollBot for filling in a possible 1.8 million articles on settlements across the world. Now dabbing needs to be done for links which aren't sorted as the bot will bypass any blue links. and I need as many people as possible to help me with Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places to prepare for the bot. If you could tackle a page or two everything counts as it will be hard to do it alone. Thankyou ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 12:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We need to find a solution to the problem at Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places/Problematic naming. We need to distinguish them somehow. 20:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Aw shucks

I'm flattered, really...What exactly does adminship entail? Would I have to cast off my finely honed reclusiveness? Or just take on some more housekeeping (which, despite its unglamorous sound, is really what I like to do)? Thanks for the props, and you may fire when ready... Her Pegship (tis herself) 14:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Happy birthday to you!

Her Pegship (tis herself) 03:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]