User talk:Graham87/Archive 38

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Graham87. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 35

Archive 36

Archive 37

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Revert

Why are you reverting those [1]? Minus signs are meant, not hyphens. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:58, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Improper page moves and misleading templates

I think you have the Bach organ sonatas on your watchlist. The requested page move was made in a clumsy way: the page mover decided that they had special status to edit the article in whichever way they saw fit. They did not realise it was still being created (like its companion article on violin & obbligato harpsichord sonatas which I'm rewriting from scratch). I am not particularly concerned with the title, but I would prefer the page moves to be made by somebody who knows how to do it:in this case by an administrator and preferably one that knows about Francis Schonken's editing restrictions. This page mover has left strange templates on the redirect pages, which shows he has no idea what he's doing. He has not been able to see that the article are about compositions; not about CDs. Here is the one on the original page (Organ sonatas, BWV 525–530)

{{Redirect category shell| {{R from move}} {{R from miscapitalization}} {{R related}} {{R unprintworthy}} }}

and this is one on another redirect page (Six organ sonatas (Bach))

{{Redirect category shell| {{R related}} {{R printworthy}} }}

The addition of both these templates seems to be an incorrect use of the page mover tool. The second one makes a nonsensical reference to CDs and wikitionary. The article is not about CDs. He must have made that mistake himself. No administrator would make a mistake like that with the tool. Please could something be done about the mess he has created on multiple pages? Thanks in advance. Mathsci (talk) 18:53, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Here is another example:

{{Redirect category shell| {{R from miscapitalization|Trio Sonatas for Organ}} {{R unprintworthy}} }}

Mathsci (talk) 19:45, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Destructive

In just a few minutes, you've destroyed a friendship of many years. You really don't have a clue about human relationships, do you. Not ... a ... clue. The worst thing is that you appeared to assume I wanted to vote-buy. Really? Do you think that's the way I operate? Don't come near me, ever again. Tony (talk) 14:36, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Alright. Graham87 14:43, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Put up or Pull it down, pal

Sarah Moore, formerly known as Sarah Hamilton-Byrne (8 July 1969 – May 2016 unconfirmed) [Sorry Wiki, you can't declare someone dead with ZERO evidence. Sarah Moore travels overseas regularly for extended periods and is in all likelihood NOT DEAD. Provide proof of her death or remove this claim please - or face legal action.] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.137.218.173 (talk) 22:00, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Review of my user page

I was just wondering why you reviewed my user page. Futurebuilder1 (talk) 11:56, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the response to my question!

Thanks for answering my question! It was a very helpful answer! Futurebuilder1 (talk) 18:38, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the update!

Thanks for the history merge on my talk page. Very helpful.

TedDunning (talk) 19:54, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Rovetta massacre

Thank you for sorting out the muddle that I had created with the display of languages for the above article (to show it in Italian) and by the same token for the Italian article, Strange de Rovetta (to show it in English). However, I'm not quite sure how you did it. Could you pse explain or direct me to the section that deals with this. Mikeo1938 (talk) 15:56, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Can I put up a block notice?

Hey Graham, The Phase Master here. I found you from my talk page, where you told me that me making a useless page (April fools' 2017) was a bit silly, considering what I'd put on there. Anyway, I noticed you blocked 14.137.218.173, but didn't put up a block notice on their user page. Is it okay if I do this? If not, were you planning to put it up sometime in the future (just wondering)?

Anyway, thanks!

The Phase Master (talk) 17:16, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

P.S: Reply here, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Phase Master (talk • contribs) 17:17, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Uranus#Archiving

Hello Graham
I notice you have just deleted Talk:Uranus/Archive 4; I recently raised a dispute at the Talk:Uranus page on this very subject, as I believe it shouldn't have been blanked in the first place; and even if that had been justified, its edit history should have been been preserved. My objection seems to have been mis-represented there, so I have restated it (here). I would be pleased therefore if you could un-delete it, until the matter has been resolved. Thanks, Moonraker12 (talk) 22:43, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Fractional Reserve Banking

Hi,

I saw that you made edits to Fractional Reserve Banking recently. I wonder if you would like to vote or pass comment on this rather important proposed change to the page => Time to change which theory gets prominence? - BTW, yes I know that this has been discussed before, but I think that there are good reasons why this issue should periodically be reviewed. Cheers Reissgo (talk) 08:18, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Frustrated with where to work on a Stub Artilce

Janeannyoung (talk) 20:14, 1 November 2016 (UTC) Hi Graham, You sent me a Welcome to Wikipedia and said I could ask you a question if I got stuck. I want to work on the Stub Article Familial exudative vitreoretinopathy FEVR for short. All that is in the stub is one paragraph, a table listing some of the genes that cause the disease and two references. I would like a clean dedicated space like when you hit the key to create a new article. What do you recommend. Thanks a bunch for your time. By the way, I have this disease and am legally blind. In a non premature baby it is identical to ROP but it continues progressing throughout life.

Imports and revisions

Hi Graham87, wanted to say hi, and also wanted to ask a few questions, as it seems you're one of the best resources on imports.

If it were ever deemed that some deleted revisions on another wiki had a place on enwiki, is it possible to import these directly, or would it require a sysop at the other wiki to undelete them first?
Are non-admin requests to import to the MediaWiki space permitted?
It seems that old deleted revisions under page titles could interfere with histmerges/splits during undeletion. Is there a guideline on handling these revisions? Are they moved/buried into the MediaWiki talk namespace like some import cases?

Thanks, I suppose these are corner cases somewhat, but thought you'd be the one with some good context. This was a great read by the way.

(Per your talk page banner) please feel free to just reply here, I'll get it. — Andy W. (talk) 05:18, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey [[Andy, thanks for your questions. To answer them in order:

Yes, the revisions would need to be undeleted first, so they can have the correct database fields for the export function to work on them.
I don't see why not; it should work like any other import except it's going in to a restricted area.
I don't think there's any guidance on this, but what I do in such cases is to move the page to be history merged to a title with "/Temp" on the end, so there are no deleted revisions in the way.

I'm glad you enjoyed my page history observations page. Graham87 05:57, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Clarity in Policy Discussion listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia:Clarity in Policy Discussion. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:Clarity in Policy Discussion redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Steel1943 (talk) 16:31, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Two-Factor Authentication now available for admins

Hello,

Please note that TOTP based two-factor authentication is now available for all administrators. In light of the recent compromised accounts, you are encouraged to add this additional layer of security to your account. It may be enabled on your preferences page in the "User profile" tab under the "Basic information" section. For basic instructions on how to enable two-factor authentication, please see the developing help page for additional information. Important: Be sure to record the two-factor authentication key and the single use keys. If you lose your two factor authentication and do not have the keys, it's possible that your account will not be recoverable. Furthermore, you are encouraged to utilize a unique password and two-factor authentication for the email account associated with your Wikimedia account. This measure will assist in safeguarding your account from malicious password resets. Comments, questions, and concerns may be directed to the thread on the administrators' noticeboard. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:33, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

A new user right for New Page Patrollers

Hi Graham87.

A new user group, New Page Reviewer, has been created in a move to greatly improve the standard of new page patrolling. The user right can be granted by any admin at PERM. It is highly recommended that admins look beyond the simple numerical threshold and satisfy themselves that the candidates have the required skills of communication and an advanced knowledge of notability and deletion. Admins are automatically included in this user right.

It is anticipated that this user right will significantly reduce the work load of admins who patrol the performance of the patrollers. However,due to the complexity of the rollout, some rights may have been accorded that may later need to be withdrawn, so some help will still be needed to some extent when discovering wrongly applied deletion tags or inappropriate pages that escape the attention of less experienced reviewers, and above all, hasty and bitey tagging for maintenance. User warnings are available here but very often a friendly custom message works best.

If you have any questions about this user right, don't hesitate to join us at WT:NPR. (Sent to all admins).MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:47, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

November 2016

Hello, I'm Parsley Man. An edit you recently made seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want more practice editing, the sandbox is the best place to do so. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Parsley Man (talk) 08:46, 17 November 2016 (UTC) Parsley Man (talk) 08:46, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Accidental bureaucrating

Wow! I don't recall anything like that at all. I'll have to take a closer look when I have time.

I want to be prepared for the Special Prosecutor. :) Thanks for the message. Cecropia (talk) 15:09, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Claude Debussy

Hi Graham. My next agenda item is to make sure the following files are included as appropriate in Wikipedia articles if they're not already included, and if the quality is sufficient. But please feel free to beat me to it.

Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:26, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

@Anythingyouwant: Cool, sounds like a plan. Graham87 03:28, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

It might be handy to also have an audio-only file of this audio-video: File:Claude Debussy - Prélude à l'après midi d'un Faune. Natalia Ensemble.webm. Do you know how to make one?Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:04, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

@Anythingyouwant: I think just convert it to an audio-only format in Audacity. Graham87 03:11, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay, maybe I'll give it a try, thanks.Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:33, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

article on Arnold Cook

Hi Graham,

Thanks so much for allowing my correction on the article about my father, Arnold Cook.

If you've never been to the statue in Kings Park, you might like to check it out one day. It was supposed to be life sized, but ended up slightly smaller than the real man & his dog, although plausible for those who did not know them.

Leigh Susan Cook Leigh131 (talk) 01:03, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Graham87. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. Mdann52 (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

brave

sheesh checking weather dumps at arts, you're a sucker for punishment!! JarrahTree 03:56, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Boulogne

Sorry about that, someone had told me you could cut it off after the question mark but I was wrong. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 16:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 5 December

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

On the Noel Desmond Gray page, your edit caused a URL error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 7 December

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

On the Dave Thomas (businessman) page, your edit caused an unsupported parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:19, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

IP 172.56.7.22

Hello Graham, I was about to edit without logging in when suddenly I saw that my registered IP was blocked by you. In the past in the log in page, I noticed I had a "new message", but the links would lead me to a talk page of an IP address. Could I have some clarification on this please. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 02:03, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

The IP was blocked Nov. 13 this year. There is also a range block for IP 172.56.0.0/18. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

How was the experience?

Hi. I see you used my newly designed interface. It's still undergoing development, but I would like to know what your experience was with it. I just released this feature and hour ago, but you can now modify other aspects of the URL data IABot uses on Wikipedia. Here's one of the two you modified earlier today. :-)—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 23:22, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower678: Thanks for the note and the info. Once I figured out how to log in, it was fine. The problem was that I'm not used to using on-mouse-over links with my screen reader; they're perfectly usable but I simply don't use them often. Graham87 06:33, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I see. Are there any suggestions you have for me to make it work better with the screen reader. I have no experience when it comes to supporting the blind.—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 10:56, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower678: Providing a link to log in, if possible, would've made things easier ... it took me a little while to realise how the "not logged in" on-mouse-over thing works. But I can use it OK now. Graham87 11:06, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure how many Wikipedians are blind, but I do wonder if screen readers are able to provide unique identification that I can use to make the drop down open by default so the screen reader can read it.—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 13:14, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower678: I can count the number of blind Wikipedians from all Wikimedia projects who have made more than a few edits on two hands ... there aren't many of us. Therefore if it'd be easy to fix the page and you feel like it, go ahead and do so; if not, don't worry about it. Graham87 13:56, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Well your browser's UA didn't reveal anything significant for me to use. I'll look into it. If it's possible to identify the screen reader, it's a simply modification to have the menu dropdown open on it's own.—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 14:42, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower678: That's impossible ... it requires deep access into the operating system. I read an article explaining that once but I can't find it now. Graham87 14:57, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Can you navigate around and tell me what needs work then?—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 14:58, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower678: I don't know ... I'm not that familiar with modern HTML. As I said, there's no need for it to be a high priority if it'd be difficult ... I know how to log in now. Graham87 15:03, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I meant if you could navigate around the interface and see if there is anything that needs to be clarified to make it easier to understand its use. That dropdown has a preferences page, a user account details page, a signet link and another dropdown that allows you to pick which wiki to work on. Then the navigation toolbar each have their own drop downs when clicked that take you to the tools. :-)—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 15:08, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I think I may have a way to detect the use of accessibility tools on the OS.—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 15:12, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I made a minor tweak to one of the HTML5 elements related to ARIA. That alone might fix your problem, but I'm not sure.—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 15:19, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

The rest of the dropdowns work fine. I see the "Not logged in" menu is listed as expanded, but I still have to press the mouseover keystroke to get to it. Graham87 15:29, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

And @Cyberpower678: it's nearly my bedtime. If I become uresponsive soon, that'll be why. Graham87 15:30, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I have made a bunch of enhancements to the interface for screen readers. They boil down to two things, checkboxes don't have their labels repeated, and the user menu works for screen readers correctly now. Give it a go and let me know.—^cyberpower_{Merry Christmas:Unknown} 04:37, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Cyberpower678 (talk · contribs) Thanks, looks cool here. Graham87 04:55, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Range block

Hi Graham - thanks for this recent range block. I took a peek, via CU, and can get it reduced to a series of /24 range blocks, which should hopefully reduce the collateral damage a bit. Hope that's okay! :) - Alison ^❤ 08:55, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

@Alison: No worries; thanks for letting me know. Graham87 09:01, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! Check my block logs now - it looks pretty clean! - Alison ^❤ 09:02, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

@Alison: I did before I noticed this message ... wowee, that it does! Graham87 09:08, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

wheesh

recently been doing recent changes and new pages feed (heheh, sort of backwards logic.. but thats another story) just to get a sense of dealing with things, wheesh! wheee - give me category tagging any day, its endless, continual and unremitting... bit like reading bad news stories on the wires.... never ending. Hey here is a happy christmas greeting without the graphics - may you and your family have a multinova free holiday season, a trump free new year, and a good and safe christmas to boot... catch you around the traps (so to speak) JarrahTree 09:15, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Extended confirmed protection policy RfC

You are receiving this notification because you participated in a past RfC related to the use of extended confirmed protection levels. There is currently a discussion ongoing about two specific use cases of extended confirmed protection. You are invited to participate. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 16:10, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

I hope you're having a nice time. And thank you once again for all the good things you do here. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:33, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Hello Graham87: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, —k6ka 🍁 (Talk · Contributions) 15:17, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

@K6ka: Thanks very much and the same to you! Graham87 01:03, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Islands project assessment page

Hi, you recently deleted the project assessment table (User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project/Islands) of WikiProject Islands. The WikiProject page is now missing that table from its main page-- do you know where a replacement table could be found? Thanks, Icebob99 (talk) 21:17, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

@Icebob99: I have no idea. the only thing that was on the page was "[[Delete]]", and it was created by Pk.coba, who also has a number of deleted contributions just like that. Graham87 06:28, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

That's interesting-- I'm not sure if there's a formal request system for this, but could you look through the edit history of the deleted page to check to see if there was a table? A bot used to maintain it. Thanks, Icebob99 (talk) 14:52, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

@Icebob99: Nope, there was never a table at that location and I can't find any evidence that such a table has ever existed anywhere. I've searched all the way back tothis edit in June 2013. Graham87 15:15, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Alright, thank you, I appreciate it. Happy holidays! Icebob99 (talk) 15:17, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Interested in your opinion (importing question)

Hi Graham87, I come to you because I reckon you have a very strong grasp of the ins and outs of historical page merging. I have two questions:

1) I've recently been looking into the history of video game articles on Wikipedia for the WP:VG/NAA project and in going through Nostalgia wiki I've determined that the oldest version of an article on the basic topic of PC game is Games/Computer which was started on 9-Mar-01 by User:fw-us-hou-8.bmc.com and expanded a few hours later by User:Josh Grosse. This much of the history survives in Wikipedia here (see this old revision). After this point, the article was redirected by User:Josh Grosse to make way for a copy&paste shift by User:Neeklamy on 30-Mar-01 to Computer games - an edit that survives in Wikipedia here (see this old revision). This appears to be a classic WP:CPMOVE which would suggest that the history of Computer games should be extended backward for attribution reasons to include the two edits from Games/Computer. The only wrinkle is that neither Computer games nor Games/Computer in fact seem to form any part of the history of PC game (into which they are both currently redirected) and so the only reason to do this would be purely academic. Would it still make sense to do it?

2) I've noticed that for some reason whereas the old version of "Computer game" has been imported to form the earliest history of "Video game", the old version of "Video game" has been imported to form the earliest history of "Video games", or most of it has been anyway... If you compare the old history here to the new history here, you will notice that there has been an omission. In both histories we start with an initial edit by User:Zundark, we then see a mini edit-war between User:Paul Drye and a persistent IP spammer which ends when Paul Drye accidentally reverts back to an older version of the article which retains the spam. We then see another IP edit on 10-Dec-01 followed by a series of 4 edits by User:Jzcool and then an edit by User:Cayzle a few days later. At this point the edit histories diverge. In the old Nostalgia wiki version we see a final edit by Zundark which finally removes the spam. In the modern Wikipedia version we see a relatively large-scale edit by User:Chuck Smith which along the way removes the spam. It's my guess that an error was made in importing this history and that Zundark's final edit of the old version (on 19-Dec-01) was accidentally lost. Again, this isn't the most important thing in the world, but for attribution reasons would you be in favor of fixing this omission?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide in this matter. -Thibbs (talk) 23:22, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

@Thibbs: Thanks for the interesting questions! If you want to look into the very earliest history of Wikipedia, your est bet would probably be Wikipedia 10K Redux, a reconstruction of the first six weeks of Wikipedia's history based on a database dump from 17 August 2001. There you'll find the Games/Computer entry (the slashes are replaced by vertical bars in the titles, for some reason) and a entry about Dune games under "Dune|Games". I don't think much else was written about video games at that stage.

The only thing stopping me from history-merging "Computer games" and "Games/Computer" is that there is a gap in the history (see this revision on the Nostalgia Wikipedia) which could theoretically be solved with the 17 August 2001 dump, but it's in a weird format that can't easily be imported into the current Wikipedia database.

Re: Video games, as noted at Wikipedia:Usemod article histories and this discussion, the script that imported the UseModWiki edits to Wikipedia in September 2002 didn't import the final edit of each page. Most pages from that era have an edit by Conversion script] in their histories, but some don't, especially those with edits from late January 2002 (like the "Video games" example). Several years ago, I went through a list of pages with the most revisions on the Nostalgia Wikipedia, on which Video game appeared, but I didn't import the final revision by Zundark because the revision by Conversion script on the Nostalgia Wikipedia made that process more difficult. However I've just imported it now to make the page history a bit more straightforward. Graham87 03:12, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

That looks great. Thank you! After looking into the materials a little more, two additional related questions came up as well (don't worry - these should be the last questions from me on the video game topic :) )...

3) It is apparent from the content that this version of the old Games/video games is the copy part of a WP:CPMOVE copy&paste (with the earliest version of Video games - here - matching it closely). For attribution reasons, the origin of the article seems like it should link back to User:SoniC (from this old history) rather than at User:Zundark whose edit summary suggests that he did little more than a minor bolding edit. The problem is that the intervening edits between Neeklamy's 01-Apr-01 edit here and Zundark's first edit here seem like they might be missing. Of course it's possible that Zundark was the editor who copy&pasted the original Games/video_games article into its new location at Video_games, but is this a safe assumption to make? And am I right to suppose that a histmerge for these pages be complicated by problems similar to those affecting "Computer games" and "Games/Computer"?

4) Thanks for the 10K Redux link. It is indeed very helpful, however it brings up another mystery I've been trying to solve. One of the earliest video game articles that I've located is StarCraft/Broodwar which seems to have been created on 17-Mar-01 (further corroboration is available at another old source from the Internet Archive). I do not find any evidence that an article on StarCraft existed at that time, however. I checked for it at 10K Redux and although the most recent article I could find there dates to 10-Mar-01, I couldn't find any record of StarCraft there so that kind of narrows the possible window for creation of StarCraft to a 1-week span between March 10 and 17. Do you have any insights on whether StarCraft/Broodwar might have existed without a corresponding article on StarCraft, and if not then where the record of StarCraft might be found?

Again, any insight would be much appreciated. -Thibbs (talk) 16:15, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@Thibbs: Nope, it's not a safe assumption to make that Zundark did the cut and paste move. Actually you can kinda track that for yourself because rc.log from the 2001 dump itself is actually semi-human-readable, so is the text in diff.log. All times in the file are in Unix time; use this tool to convert them to regular timestamps. I don't know why I didn't think of linking you there before; it would've been more useful for your original queries. In any case, that log file shows what the history of the "Games/Video games" redirect does ... that Josh Grosse did the original cut-and-paste move to "video games"; later on, Lee Daniel Crocker moved it again by cut and paste to "Video game". It also shows that the first article about StarCraft was indeed "StarCraft/Broodwar", created on 16 March 2001, not the actual game. Graham87 02:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks again, Graham87. I'll go through the dumps tomorrow when I have a bit of time. Your advise and explanations have been very helpful to me! -Thibbs (talk) 04:36, 29 December 2016 (UTC)