User talk:GiacomoReturned/Duchi di San Donato

Dear Giacomo, sorry for the delay in replying but I'm not very active & reactive.

This is the genealogical succession in the House Sambiase (and later Sambiase Sanseverino) about the title of Duke of San Donato. You can found this succession in theree principal sources, more or less complete, but all principal infos are coincident:

1. Enciclopedia Storico Nobiliare Italiana di Vittorio Spreti (a semi-official source but very good)

2. Elenco Ufficiale della Nobiltà Italiana, Roma, 1932 (a official statal source): page 765

3. Elenco Ufficiale Nobiliare Italiano, Torino, 1922 (a official statal source): page 836

4. Annuario della Nobiltà Italiana, first volume, page 1768 (only a private source but most complete)

Paolo Sambiase

(Naples * 22/01/1781 + 24/04/1840)

m

Beatrice Perrelli

( 22/01/1781 + 24/04/1840)

I

Giuseppe Gennaro Sambiase

(Naples * 27/03/1818 + 26/09/1908)

first duke of San Donato in the Sambiase family

(titles legally recognized by royal rescript of the King

of the Two Sicilies since 16/05/1853)

m

Maria d'Alessandro Vigo

(+1/04/1917)

I

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

I::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::I ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::I

Paolo Sambiase Sanseverino:::::::::::::Don Tommaso Ladislao::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: other five

(* 11.7.1877 + 02.07.1929)::::::::::(* Naples 01/14/1881 + 1974 ca.)::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::married daugther

second duke of San Donato::::::::::::third and last Duke of San Donato:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::with issue

never married::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::m Margherita Nardi

(only two adoptive son)

(grandchildren by his wife, ?)

(issue today living,with the surname

Minaci Sambiase Sanseverino and Cembalo Sambiase Sanseverino)

Attention please: there are also other bibliograpical sources, mostly published very recently, but, often, the infos in these other books aren't coincident with the sources above mentioned Could you understand the Italian language? When I write in english I make some mistakes. I have many things to say about this case (and similar cases, eventually, in the future): it is better if you write to me via email. I'll answer much sooner and we can talk without unleashing the wrath of some trolls. Do you agree? Here is my email sooboss4ou@gmail.com ciao --Kwana the minus (talk) 10:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks that is very interesting, I think you have a typo though as I have Genearro, Duke of san Donato dying in 1901 (New York Times obituary) and also is Genarro descended from Francisco Saverio (1733-1791) who inheritted the Duca di San Donato title through his mother. Easier to understand, can you explain how the Sambiase name came to be joined with the Sanserevino and the Amitrano name became lost because I am becoming a confused by contradictory references. That would be really helpful; thanks. Giacomo Returned 11:24, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Better still, could you just add to the page (or email me) a list of all the recognised dukes (from Amitrano downwards) and their relationship (if any) to each other, then I will be able to get my mind arond this. I'm sure I;m not the only confused person reading this. I am making some notes here [1] perhaps you can advise if my deductions are correct. Giacomo Returned 11:29, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Giacomo, there were some errors and some omissions.

With the help of books in my library I have traced the family tree of all the Dukes of San Donato, from the succession of the Ametrano until the extinction of the title in the Sambiase Sanseverino family.

I have indicated in bold people who enjoyed the title of Duke of San Donato.

In the old pages of "New York Times obituary" you have found the notice of the death of Gennaro (* 1821 † 1901), only called commonly "the Duke of San Donato": please note that this was just the title used under the permission ("titolo d'uso") granted to him by his older brother Joseph (* 1818 † 1908), the only and genuine Duke of San Donato, who was also VI Duke of Malvito and the VII Prince of Bonifati.

This distributive use about titles of nobility wasn't correct but was very popular in the great families, especially in the old Kingdom of two Sicilie and in the Papal States, used by some princely families like Colonna, Orsini, Borghese and others, generally used by some houses with a lot of titles and was an use tollerated in the first years of the Kingdom of Italy.

Soon I will publish here below the tree promised. Ciao --Kwana the minus (talk) 14:19, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GENEALOGICAL TREEE OF ALL DUKES OF SAN DONATO IN SAMBIASE AND SAMBIASE SANSEVERINO FAMILY

Paolo (* 1710 † 1770) III Duke of Malvito, Prince of Bonifati, married Maria Cavalcanti Ametrano, duchess of San Donato (heiress of the title of Duke of San Donato by maternal inheritance ), Baroness of Policastrello, Roggiano, Grisolia and Larderia († 1769), d. of Lucio, Duke of Buonvicino and Ippolita Ametrano, duchess of San Donato (heiress of the title of Duke of San Donato), Lady of Roggiano and Larderia

SON

Francesco Saverio (* 1733 † 1791), IV Duke of Malvito, V Prince of Bonifati, I Duke of San Donato (first Duke of San Donato in the Sambiase family by maternal inheritance), married 1777 Marianna Sambiase (* 1750 † 1791), d. of Ignazio;

ISSUE

AAA) Paolo III (* 1781 † 1840), V Duke od Malvito, VI Prince of Bonifati, II Duke of San Donato, married 1808 Beatrice Perrelli(* 1795 † 1878)

ISSUE

AA) Don Francesco (* 1812 † 1836)

BB) Domenico (* 1816 † 1817)

CC) Giuseppe (* 1818 † 1908), VI Duke of Malvito, VII Prince of Bonifati, III Duke of San Donato, married 1891 Elisa Sarah O'Connor († 1899)

ISSUE

A) (born before marriage and therefore not entitled to titles succession) Ruggero (* 1862 † 1908), married 1887 Elvira Galiani Marchioness of Polvica

ISSUE

1) Giuseppe (* 1888), marquis of Polvica.

2) Nicola (* 1896 † 1917)

B) (born before marriage and therefore not entitled to titles succession)Giuseppe (* 1865), married Maria Muglione

ISSUE

1) Achille (* 1893) married 1923 Gabriella Englen (* 1904 † 1966)

DD)Gennaro (* 1821 † 1901), known as the Duke of San Donato, Provincial Councillor and Chairman of the Province of Naples, Member of the Italian Parliament, married 1869 Maria d’Alessandro Vigo († 1917)

ISSUE

A) Paolo Sambiase (from 1909 being the surname Sambiase Sanseverino by Ministerial Decree)(* 1877 † 1929), VII Duke of Malvito, IV Duke of San Donato (after the death of Giuseppe, III Duke of San Donato)

B) Tommaso Ladislao (* 1881 † 1974), VIII Duke of Malvito, IX Prince of Bonifati, V Duke of San Donato (from 1929 to 1974: the last Duke of San Donato)

DD) Michele (* 1823 † 1905), known as the Prince of Bonifati, Senator of the Kingdom of Italy http://notes9.senato.it/Web/senregno.NSF/e56bbbe8d7e9c734c125703d002f2a0c/db03e6c5178499914125646f005f55a3?OpenDocument

EE) Raffaele (* 1825 † 1826)

BBB) Don Gennaro (* 1783 † 1813)

Hi Giacomo, As you asked to me now I tell you my opinion: the page now online about the Dukedom of San Donato now goes very well. It is all ok. I wanted to alert you that there is a typo in the caption of the character portrayed on the picture: the correct name is Gennaro. Ciao --Kwana the minus (talk) 16:19, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - ammended. The page needs a lot more imformation and anecdotal type information it make it more interesting - will have to see what or who can be unearthed. Gennarro is quite interesting and so it seems was his father, but the stories about the father need a little more referencing and verrifiacation before they can be repeated om Wikipedia. Thanks for all your help so far. Giacomo Returned 21:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]