User talk:George W. Siegel

I just enjoyed your posting at Châteauesque and wanted to pass on a few thoughts to you. Like you I still have a day job and am an architectural historian at night, my main area of interest being American architectural sculpture. I feel that you should not be afraid of taking your discoveries from over the past year and injecting them into the wikipedia article. There is a difference between the dreaded original research and doing research such as you have done. If you were to come up with a theory that no one else had ever proposed, that is what wikipedia does not want, but that is not what you are doing. So use the be brave dictum and just go for it. I was recently in Akron, Ohio for an all-too-brief visit and discovered a nice Châteauesque residence that was for either a Goodyear or a Firestone relative but I did not have time to explore it more. Please seriously consider adding some of your work to the article. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 14:34, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One of the issues that often comes up in architectural style articles is that the styles are different in, say the US and Britan, so when you start making changes suddenly you are fighting the War of 1812 again. Or so it seems. Still, pick a style and let us see what we can do about it. Starting, I suppose, with Chateauesque. Do you know what the pilfered MM&W design was for, or rather, do you know if it was ever built. That is not really typical af their work. Carptrash (talk) 22:14, 9 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My vague plans are to add brief supporting information on the original French Renaissance chateaux and eclecticism in architecture, and not even try to fix the existing pages on those subjects - Too big a project for me.

I agree with you regarding the variation in details from one country to another. (I've been tripped up several times by British sources that I thought were American, and vice-versa.) My impression is that the the article was originally intended to describe just the United States. I'm thinking of making separate sections for U.S, Canada and "other".

Regarding the MM&W design, the 104-page narrative description in Kimberly Crest's 1995 application for inclusion in the NRHP, long before my involvement, says,

"An apparent affinity for the Chateauesque can be observed in the Beaux-Arts trained, New York Architectural firm of McKim, Mead & White. This is evidenced in several of their urban residences, as well as details of their country home designs. While these works pre-date Farwell's tenure in the office, the progenitive spirit of the office would have inspired the young architect to become familiar with their past works. In fact, the first floor plan of Kimberly Crest has an affinity to McKim, Mead & White's country house design of the 1880's..."

Precisely to what extent Farwell might have "recycled" MM&W's design, I don't know. But I've made extensive measurements at Kimberly Crest and the Magic Castle and can confirm that even though the ornamentation varied, the basic room sizes and construction of the Magic Castle are identical to those of Kimberly Crest built 12 years earlier. BTW, I've looked for the MM&W country house blueprints but haven't been able to find them.

Just as a side note, Kimberly Crest and the Magic Castle are basically just large, conventional, 3-bay houses with the center bay slightly recessed. One side bay has been given a curved front so as to look like a tower. The opposite side bay is balanced through the addition of a simple turret. And an arcaded portico has been plopped in front of the center bay. That plus a steeply pitched roof and a few pedimented dormers produced the Chateauesque appearance. But there is nothing fancy, French or historic about the general construction or the interiors. And by using wood instead of stone, the architects produced very impressive mansions for a very modest price. It might also be a good example of the eclectic philosophy applied to architecture, since true revivalists would have insisted on authentic floorplans and construction materials. We'll see.

P.S. I'm not particularly skilled with the various features of Wikipedia so I'm going to keep this thread here rather than jumping to your talk page. Also, I have no clue as to how to notify you that I've made an entry here. I'm hoping that you're already monitoring it in some fashion.

Regards, George W. Siegel (talk) 02:20, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am watching your user page, so will know when you have edited here. Another option is for you to email me at eeklon at yahoo dot com and we carry on that way. I am not sure that this discussion will be of much interest to others. So here is what I have found, though I am not sure that the dates quite work out. I am using (so far) three sources that I have on MM&W, here (at home). Stanny by Baker, MM&W Architects by Roth and A monograph of the works of MM&W 1897-1915, the latter a nice, large event. As far as I can tell our best bet is the CH Mackay residence Roslyn NY, I believe no longer extant. However the dates don't seem to quite work out. O the plus side, the monograph includes a photo of the places PLUS drawn elevation of the main facade and a pretty good set of floor plans. If I scan and post them here some copyright lawyer will show up very quickly (I have had numerous issues with those folks, and am watched) but if I can get an email for you I can send them to you and you can make whatever determination makes sense to you. There is an interesting story connected to this commission (handled by White) which we can get to if you are interested. A bit about my "other" life (when not on wikipedia) I injured both knees recently playing in the 44th annual Hippies vs Indians softball game and just prior to that moved my computer from downstairs in the far west of my house to upstairs to the far east but my library is still mostly down so to look up a book involves a trip up and down stairs and that is no fun. So drop me a line, or an address here (often there is an email link for editors, I don't see one on your user page) and we'll push on. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 13:56, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]