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Language of choice for the Tunisian Darija book

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(I'm moving here the new casual conversation I began at Talk:Tunisian Arabic after I realized it was off-topic for that page, and adding my follow-up.)

By the way, apart from the inclusion discussion, I've been curious why this campaign for standardizing Tunisian Arabic is going on in English. Or is the English document just a translation of one that was previously written in Arabic? —Largo Plazo (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean why the book is in English? or why are we using Wikipedia English? and why it is not in Arabic?
Well, first of all English in an international language, so everyone can understand it, and because we have some contacts with Maltese institute and some other institutes and linguists it's better to use English.
Second reason is because, there are not open minded Arabs who can accept something like that, and they see it as a destroying of religion (the same mentality of old Jews who refused Modern Hebrew), so it's not good at all to write it in Arabic which -btw- different from Tunisian, that means, nobody in Tunisia will be interested in the book/document. But, the website which will be for Tunisians will be written in Tunisian, English and French (no Arabic! for the same reason above). We simply try to be away from Arabists. (because you can't discuss with them, with my respect to Arabs).
If you were talking about Wikipedia, we made a paragraph about STUNdard in Arabic version also, but, it can be removed at any moment (Arabists -_-) so we focus on English and French (didn't write a paragraph yet in French) because you're open minded, and Neutral. --GeekEmad (talk) 16:49, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I meant why the book and the blog are in English. This was purely out of my own curiosity, and thanks (3aishek!) for your reply. I was figuring this was an effort by an organization of Tunisians, and that your targeted audience would be other Tunisians rather than the international community. Therefore, I would have expected them to be in a language spoken by your Tunisian audience. (Even if you have Maltese connections, you have no need for support by the people of Malta, do you?) I have a Tunisian friend on Facebook who I see posting and receiveing messages in Tunisian Arabic written in Roman letters, so I figured there's already a commonly known convention for doing so.
Even if you wanted to avoid Arabic, I'd have thought, indeed, that the next language of choice to use as a foundation for discussion among Tunisians would have been French. How widely understood is English in Tunisia? I was there for a week, in the Tunis area and in some of the oasis towns and the area around Matmata. People initiated conversations with me exclusively in French, and I initiated conversations exclusively in French as well, so I finished my trip with no idea how well I would have gotten along if I'd spoken only English (my native and daily language)!
By the way, I'm thinking that instead of Tunisian Arabic or Tunisian Darija, you could, even in English, just call a standardized Tunisian language "Tounsi". After all, I saw billboards using the word in an English context for marketing: http://www.tunisiebuzzmarketing.com/2011/10/think-tounsi-by-boga.html. I would have expected, at least, "Songez Tounsi". —Largo Plazo (talk) 19:10, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Largoplazo: Hi! Well, the writer of the book is a Tunisian living in Germany, and the first version (current) is in English, the next one (corrected one) will be in English (for Institutes) and in Tounsi for Twènsa! (Tunisians!).
Yes, it uses letters like "3" for "Għ" (in STUNdard) and "7" for "Ħ" (in STUNdard), it was first used because there aren't Arabic keyboards, then it became a fashion and finally a fact.. Actually, we didn't stop using it because we use many French words that we can't write in Arabic, Also, in Arabic script, we've 3 additional letters P, V and G which Arabs refuse them (Even if we use those letters officially in Tunisia) and for all that reasons, you can't find them in normal keyboard (I made a new keyboard layout for my system!) So, again, the little cute peaceful Tunisian (:p) choose to use Latin script and avoid all those problems :D
Not all Tunisians can speak French correctly, but they know letters. You use French when you want to talk with educated people. But we will also use French.
I don't think, someone will accept the word Tounsi in English context. I think we will call it Standard Tunisian. By The way, we've two ready dictionaries (not in STUNdard) one from 1979 and the other from 2012. with thousands of words. Grammar and conjugation rules are ready (conjugation looks like Maltese), but, it's impossible that Gov. will announce it as Official Language, but associations will do. So can we like that get an ISO-2 or ISO-1 code for Standard Tunisian or that's completely impossible? (after we write books, translate movies, translate books, make websites, translate popular websites ..etc.)?
The first time I see this website :D (It's not popular because it's in foreign language)

Tunisian Arabic

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Dear Mr.,

I had resolved all the problem. If you want, we can also adjust our paper in order to be like the transliteration method which is currently used in Tunisian Arabic.

Yours Sincerely,

--Csisc (talk) 14:52, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Give me the name of the paper so that I can add it as a reference to the work. --Csisc (talk) 15:05, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there was a research talking about how Sfaxies and Sahlies are shifting to Tunis dialect, but the author found that some Sfaxies, instead of dropping the diphthongs, they pronounce them like Sahlies, as [e:] and [o:], I can't find the research right now, but I found one talking about changing [u:] to [o:]. GeekEmad (talk) 15:17, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Qaṛnīṭ il-šalwāš, Naqqāṛ il-zahwānī and Mufattiš kaɛbuṛa in the 1980s and il-kukyūlī in the 2000s are the translated cartoon series in Tunisian. If you have found supporting references for that, feel free to add this in Television and Mass Media. --Csisc (talk) 15:30, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have to leave now. So, do what you want and adjust the phonology table by substituting the changed graphs by the new graphs. --Csisc (talk) 15:36, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I thank you for your edits. Nowadays, we have to proofread the History and Scripts parts. --Csisc (talk) 09:42, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We also have to summarize the part about Morphology in Tunisian Arabic just like the one of Tamil language. --Csisc (talk) 10:38, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Request for Help, please

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Greetings Mr GeekEmad ,


Nice to meet you.

Could you kindly help me translate this article into the wonderful Tunisian Arabic language? Please.


Your help would be very Gratefully Appreciated, Thankyou very much. --Philip J (talk) 00:27, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Philip J I thank you for your interest in the Tunisian Wikipedia. Currently, the writing system is being reviewed. The goal is making one standard written Darja (Tunisian, Algerian and Moroccan). I'll translate this when the work on standard written Darja is finished. Hopefully, the bible is already translated to Moroccan and Tunisian, so I can easily find the translation for religious words. --GeekEmad (talk) 08:47, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Dear Sir,
Here is the original English version:


The Bible in written Tunisian Arabic actually exists and can be found here (and yes, a Moroccan Arabic Bible also exists here but I presume you are Tunisian so you would not need to read the Moroccan version).

I have made a list of religious terminology that can be found in certain parts of the Bible:

English word MSA equivalent English Bible verse Tunisian Arabic verse (العربية التونسية)
Gospel الإنجيل "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile." (Book of Romans Chapter 1:verse 16) [1] آنَا مَا نِحْشِمْشْ بِالإِنْجِيلْ. رَاهُو قُوِّةْ اللهْ بَاشْ الِّي يِمّْنُوا الكُلْهُمْ يُخْلْصُوا، لِليْهُودْ فِي الأُوِّلْ وِمْبَاعِدْ لِليُونَانِيِّينْ
Salvation الخلاص "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17) [2] "وِاقْبْلُوا الخَلاَصْ كِيفْ كَاسْكَة فُوقْ رُوسْكُمْ وْسِيفْ الرُّوحْ الِّي هُوَ كِلْمِةْ اللهْ.
Holy Spirit الروح القدس "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." (John 14:26) [3] آمَا المُعَزِّي الِّي هُوَ الرُّوحْ القُدُسْ الِّي بَاشْ يَبْعْثُو الآبْ بْإِسْمِي، هُوَ بَاشْ يْعَلِّمْكُمْ كُلْ شَيْء وِيْذَكِّرْكُمْ بِالحَاجَاتْ الِّي قُلْتْهَالْكُمْ الكُلْ.
Baptism التعميد "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 3:21) [4] وِالشَّيْء هَاذَا كَانْ مِثَالْ لِلمَعْمُودِيَّة بَاشْ نُخْلْصُوا، مُوشْ بْتَنْحِيتْ الوْسَخْ مِالبْدَنْ، آمَا بْطَلْبَانْ اللهْ بْضَمِيرْ طَاهِرْ عْلَى طْرِيقْ القْيَامَة مْتَاعْ يَسُوعْ المَسِيحْ
Sabbath day يوم الراحةَ "When the Sabbath day came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed...." (Mark 6:2) [5] نْهَارْ السِّبْتْ وْكَانْ يَسُوعْ يْعَلِّمْ فِي المَجْمَعْ وْبَرْشَة نَاسْ تْعَجّْبُوا وَقْتِلِّي سَمْعُوهْ وْقَالُوا: «مْنِينْ جَاهْ الشَّيْء هَاذَا؟ وِشْنُوَّة الحِكْمَة هَاذِي الِّي تِعْطَاتْلُو وِالمُعْجْزَاتْ هَاذُومَا الِّي قَاعِدْ يَعْمِلْ فِيهُمْ؟
Feet Washing / Washing of feet غسيل الأقدام "When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them." (John 13:12) [6] بَعْدْ مَا غْسَلِّلْهُمْ سَاقِيهُمْ لْبِسْ جِبّْتُو وِتَّكَّى فِي بْلاَصْتُو مِنْ جْدِيدْ وْقَالِلْهُمْ: «يَاخِي فَاهْمِينْ الشَّيْء الِّي عْمَلْتُو مْعَاكُمْ؟
Church الكنيسة "and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless." (Ephesians 5:27) [7] وْيَاخُذْهَا لْرُوحُو كَنِيسَة مَجِيدَة مَا فِيهَا حَتَّى عِيبْ وْمَا هِيشْ مْشَوّْهَة وِلاَّ نَاقْصَة أَيْ حَاجَة. بَاشْ تْكُونْ مُقَدّْسَة وِبْلاَشْ عْيُوبْ.
Pentecost عيد العنصرة "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place..." (Acts 2:1) [8] وَقْتِلِّي جَا عِيدْ يُومْ الخَمْسِينْ، كَانُوا المُؤْمْنِينْ الكُلْ مُجْتَمْعِينْ مْعَ بْعَضْهُمْ فِي بُقْعَة وَحْدَة
The Lord's Supper العشاء الرباني "So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat" (1 Corinthians 11:20) [9] وْإِنْتُومَا تِجْتَمْعُوا مُوشْ بَاشْ تَاكْلُوا عْشَاء الرَّبْ
Final Judgement (also known as the Day of Judgement) يوم القيامة "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly." (2 Peter 3:7) [10]آمَا بِالكِلْمَة هِيَ بِيدْهَا السْمَاوَاتْ وِالأَرْضْ الِّي مُوجُودِينْ تَوَّا بْقَاوْ لِلنَّارْ وِتْحُفْظُوا حَتَّى لِينْ يْجِي يُومْ الحْسَابْ وِالهْلاَكْ مْتَاعْ النَّاسْ الِّي مَا يَعْرْفُوشْ رَبِّي.


Now you have sufficient vocabulary to help translate the article into Tunisian Arabic. you can translate directly from the English or the Arabic version (whichever is easier for you).

I understand that the Tunisian Arabic latin orthography does not yet have a unified/standardized form but just translate the article into the latin orthography that you currently use (eg. the Latinized orthography that you had used here. When an new orthography has been agreed upon, the translated article can then be adjusted to take into account the new orthography. --Philip J (talk) 09:14, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Philip J Alright, here is my translation, but note that the used writing system is under work, so maybe it'll change in the future:
"Knisiyet l-Msiħ l-ħeqqani" hiya knisiya mestqella tȝemlet fi Bikin, ċ-Ċenwa Ȝam 1917. L-Yum femma qrib 2.5 melyun Ȝeḍw fi 53 Dula w setta Qaṛṛat. Had l-Knisiya ṛa-hi feṛȝ mej-Jmaȝa l-Benṭakoṣṭal mteȝ l-Msiħiya li bdat fi uwel l-Ȝeċrinat. L-ȝeċṛa Baẓat mtaȝ l-Knisiya huma:
  1. Ṛ-Ṛuħ l-Mqeddsa
  2. L-Meȝmudiya
  3. Ġsil s-Saqin
  4. Ȝċa ṛ-Ṛebb
  5. Nhaṛ s-Sebt
  6. Si l-Msiħ
  7. L-Enjil
  8. L-Xlaṣ
  9. L-Knisiya
  10. Yum l-Ħsab
Note that l-Xlaṣ has the meaning of the payment, however it is used in the translated bible, probably borrowed from Arabix خَلاص. Also, note that all nouns are written in uppercase letters.

Gratitude

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Thankyou so much Mr. GeekEmad for your Outstanding translation effort!
I very very Grateful.
May you be Blessed!
Yours Sincerely,
--Philip J (talk) 02:30, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

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I've seen your userpage. I would like to know what is غرّيم محبوب in Tunisian Arabic. Is it really a sort of tuber (a special mushroom growing underground)? If it is, then which species exactly? HOTmag (talk) 03:46, 23 February 2016 (UTC) ːHello. I've collected many local names of different plants and animals but I never came across a word such as ġrrim mħbub and it is the first time to hear about it. Even a small search in Google doesn't give me any information about it. I'm really sorry. --GeekEmad (talk) 11:46, 23 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like you live in the North. The term غرّيم محبوب exists in the southeastern dialect only. HOTmag (talk) 15:36, 23 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I actually live in Kairouan. No dictionaries exist for southeastern dialects, so, I think it would be hard to find enough information about the word. --GeekEmad (talk) 16:51, 23 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You said you'd collected many local names of different plants and animals. Do you know of any list of local Tunisian names of sorts of fish? HOTmag (talk) 00:36, 14 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is one of the sources that I used, it's about fish. --GeekEmad (talk) 08:11, 14 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, it really helped me!
Do you know of other lists of sorts of fish with their local Tunisian names? I'm asking, because the list you've given me does not include some sorts (at least not with their local Djerbian names I'm more familiar with), e.g. 7mray (حمراي) , Bougid (بوگيد), Khaddir (خضّير), Makrou (ماكرو), Sebri / Chebri (سبري / شبري), Charja / Sarja (شرجة / سرجة), Boukechchach / Boukessas (بوكشّاش / بوكسّاس), Chfaou / Sfaou (شفاو / سفاو), Ouraghi (وراغي), Drghal (درغال).
By the way, the local Djerbian name of Ourata (indicated on the list you've given me) is Qajouj (قاجوج).
Additionally, do you have a list of sorts of dates, with their local Tunisian names? HOTmag (talk) 08:56, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, There is a dictionary called "dico-karmous" (pdf) which lists some sorts of dates, from the page you gave me, I personally know Angou, Arichti, Bisr (actually Bsir/Bser), and Touzerzayet. As for fish, I know only this websiteː https://www.tunisia-sat.com/forums/threads/915132/ There is a little documentation of Djerbian dialect so it is hard to find names of fish. --GeekEmad (talk) 09:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Y3eichɪk. HOTmag (talk) 10:30, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Contests

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User:Dr. Blofeld has created Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/Contests. The idea is to run a series of contests/editathons focusing on each region of Africa. He has spoken to Wikimedia about it and $1000-1500 is possible for prize money. As someone who has previously expressed interest in African topics, would you be interested in contributing to one or assisting draw up core article/missing article lists? He says he's thinking of North Africa for an inaugural one in October. If interested please sign up in the participants section of the Contest page, thanks.♦ --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 01:21, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

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Hi GeekEmad! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.

-- 11:41, Sunday, December 25, 2016 (UTC)

Mission 1 Mission 2 Mission 3 Mission 4 Mission 5 Mission 6 Mission 7
Say Hello to the World An Invitation to Earth Small Changes, Big Impact The Neutral Point of View The Veil of Verifiability The Civility Code Looking Good Together
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Changing fall-back language and language name for aeb (Tunisian Language)

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There is an old Phabricator ticket (which seems to be imported from our old bug system) which you seem to have initiated. Could you check phab:T70207 and respond to the ticket? This is me (mbch331) (Questions/Remarks/Complaints etc.) 16:42, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Levantine Arabic FAC

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Hi GeekEmad, I nominated Levantine Article for FAC. As you contributed to Tunisian Arabic in the past and given your knowledge of Arabic (both MSA and aeb), I thought you could be interested in reviewing this nomination. Thanks for any help you can provide. A455bcd9 (talk) 08:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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