User talk:Fred Bokker

Talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Fred Bokker. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Help desk.
Message added Mlpearc (powwow) 22:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Fred Bokker, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Fred Bokker! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Theopolisme (I'm a Teahouse host) Visit the Teahouse This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Fred Bokker. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Ariconte (talk) 11:01, 28 May 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Errol Sawyer

Hi Fred Bokker, as requested at the Teahouse I have reviewed your article and you have made an excellent start. These are my thoughts;

• the sentence " At Mickey Ruskin’s club Max’s Kansas City, where he was a regular visitor, he met Jimi Hendrix, Robert Rauschenberg, Larry Rivers, Claes Oldenburg, Andy Warhol and Diane Arbus who made a portrait of Errol in her studio" seems to be puff - see WP:PUFF
• under Early Life, the second paragraph needs further citations.
• I believe there are too many quotes - see WP:QUOTEFARM. The article will flow better if the quotes are reduced and paraphrased, especially the first quote which is very long.
• Errol Sawyer's website is a self-published source and an independent reference would be better - see WP:BLPSPS
• the paragraph that begins "In 1978, Sawyer returned to New York" needs a citation.
• I'm not sure listing so many exhibitions and collections is necessary.

I hope this is of some help to you. Happy editing Flat Out let's discuss it 11:37, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

The submitted draft for this article can now be found at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Errol Sawyer Rankersbo (talk) 12:30, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

PS The draft you did as your user page can be found at User:Fred Bokker/Errol Sawyer (draft) if you need any of the info on it. Rankersbo (talk) 12:35, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Regarding your question at the Teahouse, it's best not to rely on just one or two sources. Have a look at Bon Scott, its not a bio of living person but its a good example of multiple sources. One reference could be used for almost the entire article (Ref 1) but as you will see there are 31 other sources. Using single sources does not meet WP:BLP so your current approach is better. Flat Out let's discuss it 13:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your criticism. I have improved the references: made them more objective. Fred Bokker (talk) 17:17, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

You are more than welcome, good luck with your article and please feel free to ask me any further questions on my talk page. Flat Out let's discuss it

An editor just deleted my article without any discussion. His only reason for this was the fact that an article of Errol Sawyer had been deleted in 2009. But the article I made has valid links and deserves to be in Wiki. What is wrong? How can this happen? Can you help me to get it back in Wiki? Where is my article? Fred Bokker (talk) 15:52, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Fred Bokker. You have new messages at Malik Shabazz's talk page.
Message added 19:17, 1 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Help request

My article has been deleted without giving notice so I have not even saved it. The editor, which deleted it, noticed that an article with the same name had been deleted in 2009. But a lot has occurred in the life of the photographer Errol Sawyer since 2009. The publication of his book 'City Mosaic,' important reviews of his work, new links and references etc. How can an editor just delete an article without having read it accurately? Can you please find it, review it and put it back on. Fred Bokker (talk) 20:25, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I have moved this down, because it helps to keep conversations in order if new entries go at the bottom of talk pages.

You have already taken the right steps: asked the deleting admin and, when he did not agree to restore, taken the issue to Deletion Review at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2013 June 1#Errol Sawyer. I have temporarily undeleted the article so that people commenting at the review can compare your article with the version deleted after Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Errol Sawyer (2nd nomination) in 2009. The review will last, normally, a week; the issue is whether the previous reasons for deletion have been overcome, and the possible outcomes are explained at WP:Deletion review#Commenting in a deletion review. JohnCD (talk) 21:30, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

The article was not deleted by me. I helped improve the article and submitted it for approval after you came to the Teahouse looking for help. The article was accepted by AppleJack-7 but soon after was nominated for speedy deletion because it failed WP:NOTE and WP:RS. The article was subsequently deleted but not by me. Here is the log from your user page that shows the process of deletion.

I then removed the redirection from your subpage to the article, since it no longer exists. If you want the draft back it's in the revision history, but please don't resubmit the same article given that is has now been deleted twice. Best wishes Flat Out let's discuss it 00:25, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your reaction. I am right now in a discussion about the article and I want it to be reviewed objectively and back on. I would like to ask you to follow the discussion and contribute to it as I think that Mniberi has blatant prejudice. Fred Bokker (talk) 00:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I do not intend to play any further part in the discussion, except to say that Mniberi did not delete the article either, they simply nominated for deletion which they are entitled to do, and that you should make yourself familiar with this:assume good faith. Flat Out let's discuss it 00:51, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, if you had read the message on your user page you would see that the draft is here. Flat Out let's discuss it 00:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

"Behavior" at DRV

Fred,

At the Deletion Review you ask "There must be another organ/board within Wikipedia that is overseeing this kind of talk and behavior". Well, for purposes of possible deletion of articles, Deletion Review is the "supreme court", a self-appointed peripatetic group of busybodies like me. I wonder whether the article is more promotional in tone than you realise and that this has unconsciously prejudiced some people into thinking the article should be entirely deleted rather than improved. If you want to pursue matters then I suggest you try again at Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions or with {{help me}}. If you consider there is serious misconduct you could try Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. However, at the latter venue, I doubt whether people will think the deletion review discussion is in any way unacceptable or even unusual. Best wishes. Thincat (talk) 15:18, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Looking fro help with editing my article!!!

I am looking for an experienced wiki editor who can help me with improving text and images in the Errol Sawyer article?Fred Bokker (talk) 09:54, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I've moved this down, as new messages should go at the bottom of the talk page for clarity. I think you will have little luck using the {{helpme}} template to find an editor willing to edit the Errol Sawyer article for you. If you would like advice on how to improve it yourself, I'd suggest you join the #wikipedia-en-help ^connect channel where we can give you live help. – GorillaWarfare (talk) 12:12, 5 June 2013 (UTC)