User talk:Finnusertop/Archive/2022

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Rautavaara symphonies

Template:Rautavaara symphonies has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Aza24 (talk) 04:40, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

in friendship

January songs

in friendship

Thank you for being around! - Happy new year, in friendship! - One of my pics was on the Main page, DYK, and even made it to the stats. - In this young year, I enjoyed meetings with friends in real life, and wish you many of those. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of United Front (China) (disambiguation)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Tunisian Human Rights League logo.jpg

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North Korean election articles

Hello. I was just wondering if edits like this and this to North Korean election articles are legit? Cheers, Number 57 22:00, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

@Number 57: I think it's fine. I don't doubt its accuracy and it's sourced. Surely it's a bit trivial, but nothing is worse than election articles that are just numbers and statistics with no regard for political context. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:52, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Sibelius Kullervo Symphony

Hi, Finn!! As I work on Kullervo in my sandbox, that red link for Abraham Ojanperä stares back at me. Too bad, as we have a nice article in Finnish! @ Abraham Ojanperä. Any interest in doing the translation? Hope you've been well! Very warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 22:35, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

And... I just found this in your archive! Looks like I've pestered you before! "I would really appreciate any help you can provide with anything related to Sibelius on English Wikipedia. The pandemic has brought me back to his works and, thoroughly enjoying them once more (did I ever stop doing so?), I'm trying to, step-by-step, right the injustice that is his neglect on WP (relative to other composers). Kullervo has, over time and much to my surprise given my initial tepid response to it, become my favorite Sibelius work... it's a masterpiece. I do think the translation of Abraham Ojanperä, thus, is significantly more important than the other two (which really would be guilty pleasures and of interest only to other Sibelians). One other thought that I could very much use your help on, given your access to Finnish media and library archives: in the late 1950s or very early 1960s, Jussi Jalas resurrected Kullervo (Sibelius forbade its performance until after his passing), a lost work that no one had heard in its entirety since its 1892 premiere. Needless to say, it's a monumentally important concert (one any FA on Kullervo should detail), but the English-language media in the U.S. and Britain doesn't appear to have covered it. Because the Jalas concert was, it is my understanding, in Helsinki, the Finnish press should have recorded its thoughts for posterity. All this is to say: how would you like a treasure hunt? Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 22:09, 5 May 2021 (UTC)" The Jalas is still a need of mine. Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Holy heck, look what I found!!!! A review of the 1935 performance of Movement III... It's far too much for me to type into Google Translate, though. Mind translating the bits about Sibelius? I also was looking in Helingin Santomat for the Jalas July 1958 Kullervo, but I don't have access to the 1950s archives. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 02:44, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

My dear friend, Silence of Järvenpää, I hope you have been well, as I have been. I will skip any excuses and get straight to work! Here is my translation of the 1935 review of the third Movement of Kullervo:

The resurrection of the tunes of Sibelius' "Kullervo" symphony was awaited with great excitement. This historic work, a five-movement illustration for orchestra, solos and male chorus, was premiered on 28 April 1892 and re-preformed thrice in a row the next spring in 1893, after which it became sidelined and all but forgotten. Its immensely noticed premiere, an event that is considered the birth of Finnish music, was thenceforth only talked about as a legend: of the excitement that it caused, but also of opposition and sense of strangeness that was exhibited by some of the audience. All had been unanimous in the view that the young composer's tone was somehow extravagantly brave, almost incomprehensibly revolutionary, and difficult to understand. And yet it was instinctively known as our own, in accordance with the Finnish spirit, even though of its "Finnishness" and quality nothing else was said except for that it was Sibelius, his personal musical expression. The unique music of the young genius, the point of departure nor parallel of which is nowhere to be found, made such a strong impression that it was nevertheless appropriated as the base from which the independent art of an entire nation was to sprout. No one could argue with good reason that Sibelius would have been especially Finnish-national(ist) in a musical sense, but it was sensed that Finnish-national(ist) musical art was to be something of the kind that rang from the first notes of the giant kantele of Sibelius to the ears of the tribe of Kalevala.

What, now after forty-three years, did "Kullervo", from which the movement most typical and most illustrative of its style, the third movement "Kullervo and his sisters", was played, sounded like? Unexpectedly, most pondered in their minds what could have been the radical thing that made it considered so strange and difficult to the audiences of the days of old. For now it surprised with its clarity, simplicity and subtle beauty! But of note is the fact that Finland had led a life of complete isolation from the musical life of Europe – the education conducted by Kajanus for but a decade then had not yet worked miracles. Indeed, he was one of the few who could properly understand and see clearly the meaning of the path opened to us by "Kullervo". "From here a path shall traverse, a new trajectory be trodden" [poem in Kalevala metre in the original] he wrote visionarily in his wreath on the day of the premiere of "Kullervo". Oh, the visions of future that open up when one thinks of this prediction and the immense development that has taken place in our country thanks to, and in addition to, the great work of Sibelius!

The well-noticed re-performance of the "Kullervo" movement did not do full justice to the composition. The orchestra conducted by Prof. Schneevoigt did play skillfully, the powerful male chorus made up of singers from Laulu-Miehet [Singing-Men] and Ylioppilaskunnan Laulajat [Helsinki University student organization's singers] elocuted in a straight fashion the archaic and quaint original verses that tell the story: "Kullervo son of Kalervo, Blue-Sock, child of äijö [orphan/son of devil] ...", but the soloists failed to deliver on virtually every promise. The role of Kullervo's sister, which is a part characterized by high-drama (Emmy Achté in the 1890s!) was given to a fragile lyrical soprano, miss Aino Vuorijoki, whose pale voice and pale interpretation could not paint a proper picture of the female of this tragedy. The grandiose role of Kullervo in turn was written for a baritone but after the performer had fallen ill, it was given to a tenor (Väinö Sola). Concerning the timbre of the soloists' parts and interpretation of their personalities, everything had thus been turned upside down.

As always, the translation is rough, just to give you an idea, and should you want to quote it or need me to clarify something, I can always translate bits of it with more precision. The 1935 review then goes on to talk about Sibelius' "Lemminkäinen" suite and only mentions "Kullervo" to make the point that Sibelius' style had matured to its full masterful potential during the four-year interval between "Lemminkäinen" and "Kullervo".

I have just renewed my subscription to Helsingin Sanomat and the entire archive is at my fingertips. I will see if there is anything about the 1958 performance. After that, I shall, finally, get to translating Ojanperä and the rest. Yours, – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:16, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi Finn! So wonderful to hear from you at last; I didn't have the best day at work (it happens), but your message really brightened my mood when I saw it! Thank you for doing the translation of the 1935 H.S. piece by Evert Katila... it's wonderful to finally figure out who the soprano (of whom I can find no internet record, so I guess I get it why her name has been lost to Sibelius history) was, as well as to learn why they employed a tenor instead of a baritone. I think I'd like to quote some of the Katila commentary, and so once I write it up, I send it to you to make sure that you are happy with the initial translation you provided. I also wouldn't mind the bits about Lemminkäinen translated, too, as I will eventually write this article too. Looking forward to collaborating on that 1958 performance: 12 June was a private concert and 13 June was the public concert. Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 02:16, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

One more thing: On what day does the article say Kullervo was performed? March 1 or March 3? What about Lemminkäinen? Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 02:24, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: here is the rest of the article discussing Sibelius etc. As you can see, the selected movements of both Kullervo and Lemminkäinen were performed at the same concert on March 1. From the very beginning of the article:

Celebrating the Kalevala festival continued yesterday in Helsinki with solemn festivities. The festival concert in Messuhalli became the central event with many people in attendance. The city of Helsinki served afternoon tea to foreign guests who had come to Finland and other invitees.

[Bit under subheading about the tea serving omitted]

The first musical event proper of the Kalevala festival was the celebratory concert yesterday, its program being well planned, though a bit overextended, but adequate to keep one interested. One could hear both the oldest and the newest music inspired by our national epic, representative and enlightening exemplars or Finnish musical art spanning more than 40 years, from young Sibelius to Uuno Klami. The program included for the most part orchestral compositions, with vocal music offering variety.

[The previously translated bit about Kullervo is here]

The other Sibelius number was three movements from the Lemminkäinen suite. The four-movement "Lemminkäinen" for the orchestra is from 1896, making it four years younger than "Kullervo". Negative attitude exhibited by one critic toward it had caused an uproar of debate. The next year the suite was still performed but it too disappeared – only two parts, "Swan of Tuonela" and "Lemminkäinen's return to his hometown", printed in Germany, continued to live on. The grandest and most powerful movements, "Lemminkäinen and the maidens of the Island" and "Lemminkäinen in Tuonela" were forgotten. The musical committee of the jubilee deserves the utmost of thanks for bringing into the light of day on these festive days these brilliant orchestral illustrations which the festival audience received yesterday with thunderous expressions of delight. The four-year interval, which separates Kullervo from Lemminkäinen, has made a master out of the composer. The first movement of the suite, Lemminkäinen's maritime journey to the mysterious "Island" is in its radiant listenability and marvelous treatment of the subject enthralling. Its conclusion is wonderful, when Lemminkäinen's vessel disappears into the misty horizon of the high seas, with the maidens left on the shore to yearn... An indescribably wonderful atmosphere of nature emanates from this ingenious musical painting. In the second movement, "Lemminkäinen in Tuonela" the masterful treatment of the mother's lullaby evokes admiration as does the description of the grim atmosphere of Hades.

It would be advisable that prof. Schneevoight would perform the entirety of the Lemminkäinen suite next fall. In that case some sort of description of its contents would probably have to be included because the suite is programme music after all.

The text then goes on the describe Melartin and Klami, and page 10 is almost entirely devoted to two speeches unrelated to Sibelius. There is only one brief mention of "Venematka" (Boat Journey) by Sibelius being performed by a student at the German school in Finland. I'll do some digging about the 1958 performances next. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:04, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Dear Silence of Järvenpää. I've reviewed the coverage on the two 1958 concerts. I've read all of it and you can ask if you're interested in something specific, or ask me to translate bits again. Here's the coverage:

• 12 June 1958: two articles, both obviously written before the performance. The first one gives basic details about the concert (that it was organized by the Government and the audience will include Danish royals on a state visit). The second one re-prints old reviews of the premiere from 1892.
• 13 June 1958: four interesting articles. First, a mention of the performance as the high point of the Danes' visit in an article about their itinerary and a photograph of them in the concert audience. The second one is a separate, full review of the concert. It includes general sentiments about the composition, details about its performance, critical remarks, and also a brief comparison with Lemminkäinen. The third one is an article that gives additional details about how Kullervo came to be performed back in 1953 against all odds. The fourth is a very short article giving a basic introduction to the concert on the 13th.
• 14 June 1958: just a short mention about the private concert having been recorded and the record being presented to the Danes.
• 15 June 1958: short article about the Sibelius week that coincided with the Danes' visit mentions that the Kullervo performance was a hot topic in the cultural circles. An article about Andante Lirico unrelated to Kullervo.
• 17 June 1958: full review of the public concert, makes comparisons with it and the private one and has some thoughts about how concert-friendly or not Kullervo is. Also reviews other Sibelius pieces that were performed.
• 18 June 1958: just a short remark about the Kullervo recording in an article about the Danish Radio symphony orchestra visiting Finland to play Sibelius during the Sibelius week.
• 19 June 1958: short article noting that the Kullervo performance (ambiguous about which) was much broadcast on radio internationally.

Yours – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:48, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! You never fail to impress me! Your research has been tremendously thorough, and I am greatly in your debt! A few clarifications:

• Kullervo was performed in 1953?!?!?! This is the first I've heard of this! Is this perhaps a typo? That is, maybe you meant 1935?
• Would I be able to select a few of the articles you mentioned/reviewed for a line-by-line translation (like you did for the 1935 concert)?
• Not understanding Finnish, I was curious to know why Aino Vuorjoelle becomes, when translated to English, Aino Vuorijoki. :) (Just wanted to double check this since I can't find any internet record of this soprano.)

Thanks so very much. Warmly yours, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 19:53, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää:

• My bad! I meant 1935, of course! The article in question recalls how Sibelius caved in and allowed the performance of Kullervo, how Schneevoigt was first unimpressed by the score but agreed to performing the third movement, and how the tenor replaced the baritone.
• That is the idea, yes. I have given you the rought contents above so that you may select for translation the ones that interest you the most.
• This is not an error, but I'm glad you asked if it helps you clear things up. "Aino Vuorijoelle" becomes "to ... Aino Vuorijoki" because "-joelle" is the allative singular of "-joki", see wikt:joki#Declension. There is absolutely no ambiguity about the fact that her name is Vuorijoki. Unfortunately, I can't offer much expert help researching this person, but I can check those Finnish language sources that I can think of.

Yours – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:46, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

• Haha, that is too funny! You had me so very panicked! :)
• Wonderful! Thanks so much. I'll go through your above post and highlight in yellow the one's I'd like (as soon as I figure out how to highlight text on Wikipedia).
• Oh, do know that I never doubted you! Thanks for explaining the language to me.

Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:52, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: actually, regarding the female soprano, let me take that back, partially. The name is Vuorjoki, not Vuorijoki. The correct form strikes to me as a bit unusual, but if that's how it is, then so be it. I feel so dyslexic making all these mistakes and wasting your time... Anyhow, when searching for these old-timey names, do note that the letters v and w used to be more or less interchangeable. For instance, the name of the tenor is given as Väinö Sola in the 1935 article but as Wäinö Sola in a 1958 one. Thank you for your patience. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

It's absolutely no problem! I cannot emphasize enough how very thankful I am to have your attention. And do Finns prefer to use the V or the W? (i.e., which should I use in the article)? Also, I highlighted four of the eleven stories above. Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:33, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

And here's what I have so far for 1935. Are you fine with the translation of the Katila quote?

Gloomily, Gray concluded: "The chances are, then, that Kullervo will never see the light of day, which is greatly to be regretted". Nevertheless, on 1 March 1935, at the newly-built Helsinki Exhibition Hall, Sibelius permitted performance of Kullervo's third movement for a concert celebrating the centenary of the Kalevala's publication. On this occasion, Georg Schnéevoigt conducted the Helsinki Philharmonic and a choir drawn from the YL Male Voice Choir and Laulu-Miehet; the soloists were the tenor Väinö Sola (who substituted for an ill baritone) and the soprano Aino Vuorjoki. In a review for Helsingin Sanomat, Evert Katila wrote that, given the caustic receives Kullervo received in 1893, Movement III "surprised with its clarity, simplicity and subtle beauty". However, he faulted the soloists as woefully unsuitable in terms of timbre and dramatic interpretation... "[they] did not do full justice to the composition".

Thanks, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:37, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

And here's what I have so far for 1958, if you're curious.

Sibelius died on 20 September 1957. Nine months later, his son-in-law Jussi Jalas revived Kullervo in its entirety first complete performance since 1893; Helsinki Philharmonic before an invited audience on 12 June 1958; next day, a public concert during Sibelius Week. There has been some debate as to the propriety of performing a work that the composer himself withdrew and denied publication. Santeri Levas, Sibelius's private secretary from 1938–57, wrote that the Jalas concert was "against the expressed wish of the recently deceased master". However, Erik Tawaststjerna, Sibelius's most expansive and authoritative biographer, argued that the posthumous revival of Kullervo "was certainly not in conflict with [Sibelius's] last wishes", as before his death, "he began to be reconciled to the idea that the symphony in its entirety might be taken up... and finally accepted it as something quite natural".

Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:46, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: I will answer your questions first and then post a translation of the review of the first concert. As for V vs. W, it used to be more or less an shift from orthographic preference from W to V. For sources this new (20th century) V is certainly the standard and W implies that older orthography was consciously retained. But just go with whatever is the most common in sources.

Regarding the quote "surprised with its clarity, simplicity and subtle beauty", I have reviewed the original text and it more accurately says "surprised and astonished with its clarity, simplicity and subtle beauty". The other quote is correct verbatim.

You will get the full story behind 1958 (and 1957?; see below) soon.

But for now, this is the review of the first concert:

A festive concert organized by the government was held yesterday in honor of HM the Danish king and had a great rarity in its program: Sibelius' Kullervo symphony performed for the first time since 1893. The most solemn occasion of the royal visit and most extraordinary of musical events inspired a veritable crowd of would-be invitees and the government had its hands full of work performing its duty to distribute invitations wisely.

The festive crowd waiting for the king was a spectacular sight, the full evening dress and medals of gentlemen and the fabulous dresses of ladies constituted a backdrop to which the uniforms of a handful of foreign diplomats added even more color. The first time this fine audience stood up did not, however, take place to honor the arrival of the king but instead that of the protocol chief in charge of the preparations, minister Helge von Knorring. This incident greatly amused the festive audience and so the king and queen with their entourage were received with wide smiles a moment later.

The second coming of Kullervo was entrusted to conductor Jussi Jalas, the task was truly one of great responsibility and extent, the work being an hour and 18 minutes long.

Having heard Kullervo now, that legendary breakthrough composition which received gigantic favor at its premiere, one understands well its meaning and greatness at that time. At the end of the 19th century, we verily did not have anything comparable, neither in might nor scope. The young Sibelius had entered into a wrestle with angels as if he was Jacob with the most dramatic topic of our national poetry and its multipronged verse in the Kalevela metre. One can, awestruck, come to the conclusion that the work is the very model after which composers of the so-called Finnish male chorus style have produced many works but few of them art. The choir parts of Kullervo gave obvious impetus to our male chorus style when it comes to large orchestral works. Hearing Kullervo now also relegated those epigoni to a more minor status.

Generally speaking, when Sibelius barred the performance of a piece, he had a good reason for doing so. He was wise, astonishingly wise. Of early works, only Satu [En saga] has been comparatively well known, and even it not as its original version but as the edition revised in 1901. If left untouched, Satu would also have been one of those banned. Of Kullervo, Sibelius later permitted the performance of the last chorus part (1935) and the Curse of Kullervo (1957) – precisely the finest parts of the work. These two parts are perfectly ready and forward going art, still heart moving in their might to this day.

The entirety of the work is compromised by its tremendous length and the unsuitability of the text of Kalevela for composition. The two large orchestral parts contain a treasure trove for those interested in the development of Sibelius' style, glimpses of elements of style and even themes are heard that in later works take to the skies. But they also include ordinary, long sections that seem to go nowhere and greater arches are missing altogether. It is landscape, not architecture. The employment of the orchestra is oftentimes rather crude, some effects are overly stretched – the triangle, for example, got on my nerves. In the light of Sibelius' later works, Kullervo going off to war with its equestrian feel so often evoked by Sibelius later, was very interesting. I find its parallel in the return of Lemminkäinen, many ideas of which are germinating in Kullervo's departure to war. But how much more wonderfully Lemminkäinen rides after Sibelius had matured to his full capacity. I hope to return to Kullervo once more – its second performance will be tonight after all.

Jussi Jalas and the Helsinki City Orchestra managed the extensive task adequately, I believe however that Kullervo could be interpreted more intensively in its details. The choice of soloists was an unhappy one. First and foremost, in the work at hand, Sibelius' orchestra charges over those poor voices – the voices of Liisa Linko and Matti Lehtinen were seldom heard well. Last year we heard the Curse of Kullervo more raging, intense.

Laulu-Miehet managed this prototype of Finnish male chorus style comfortably and singing with precision.

The performance of Kullervo was a delight – it lends itself to numerous interesting insights to all those interested in the music of Sibelius. I do not think the work in its entirety will be performed regularly. The Curse of Kullervo and the Death of Kullervo on the other hand certainly will be.

P.S. Present at the concert was also the famed Jim Fasset of CBS, who will broadcast the work in its entirety in the United States and a representative of the Danish music publisher William Hansen who was there for the explicit purpose of listening to Kullervo for assessing whether to publish it. To my knowledge the only musical man there – perhaps the very only one – who was also present at the premiere of Kullervo was professor Ilmari Krohn, that astonishingly energetic veteran of our musical life.

As you can see, the part Curse of Kullervo was performed in 1957, and there is a review of that performance from that year available. Yours – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:40, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, FinnU! Whoa! This is amazing work... just such wonderful, fascinating detail. I can't wait to incorporate it into my draft. Thanks again, for all you do. Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 02:43, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Dear, Silence of Järvenpää, I have the requested translations available now. Would you consider enabling the Wikipedia:Emailing users option? I would rather stay on the safe side of copyrights by not posting translations of full articles here, and also because this is about take a sizeable chunk of my talk page. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:23, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! I have never done emails through Wikipedia before. But, I think I have set it up successfully. I wanted to make it such that only you could email me, but I couldn't find this feature. So, once I receive your email (I trust you), I think I may shut this option off, since my email contains my name IRL. Thanks so very much for doing the translations! I'm very excited!! Warmly yours, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:46, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Dear Silence of Järvenpää. I've just sent you the email. You can turn the Wikipedia email function off now. If you reply to my email, I'll be able to contact you in the future without the built in function. Yours – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:08, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: ta-da, Abraham Ojanperä! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:10, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! Whoa! Outstanding work... of all the red links (w/ fi ill) in my Kullervo draft (and there are many!), Ojanperä was the one I most wanted blue. Well done, indeed! (PS: I hope to message you later tonight after work, with a few comments/questions about the email you sent me). Very warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 19:17, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

References

Rosetta barnstar!! For an awesome Wikipedian!

Hi, Finn! I've never done anything like this before, but... I think this is in order. You rock!!! Can't tell you enough how much I appreciate your help on the Finnish to English translations for Sibelius stuff (and before that, Madetoja... I probably should have given you one of these way back then)! It's been fun! And so very educational! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 15:18, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: Thank you so very, very much. I feel very undeserving of this accolade, being the slacker that I am. Speaking of which, sorry for having done zilch in the past few days. I'll try to squeeze in some extra hours during the weekend to catch up with your assignments. I have enjoyed our collaboration as much as you have. I get to learn so much! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:16, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

And it's very, very much deserved, of course! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! I'm moving down to this section, because the other one has gotten too long to navigate. Thank you again for having provided me with the translations of the articles; they have, collectively, really helped me to fill out the details of the 1935 Schnéevoigt and 1958 Jalas performances, about which the English-language sources are rather unsatisfactory. I do, however, have some questions and thoughts, that I wanted to share with you. (I do hope that I am not wearing out my welcome!) Here goes:

1. There does seem to be some uncertainty over the precise date of the Schnéevoigt concert. Barnett's biography (2007, p. 338) of Sibelius says March 3, as does the HS 1958 article by Väisänen. However, Barnett's liner notes (2000, p. 4) to the Vänskä recording for BIS says March 1, as does Goss in her book Jean Sibelius and Olin Downes (1997, p. 220, citing Salmenhaara's research) and the HS 1935 article by Katila. I really do think it's March 1, but thought I would get your feedback.
2. The 1958 Väisänen article in HS also very interestingly notes that in 1921, The Kalevala Society purchased the autograph manuscript of Kullervo from Sibelius and then it deposited the score in the Helsinki University Library. I have only found one other source so far that mentions this, which is Murtomäki's liner notes (1993, p. 3) to Salonen's recording for Sony. Interestingly, Sibelius's most authoritative biographer, Tawaststjerna (Vol. III, translated 1997, p. 318), says that in 1920 The Kalevala Society/Väisänen purchased the two unpublished Lemminkäinen Legends and Luonnotar, but he doesn't mention Kullervo... it just strikes me as so very odd that Tawaststjerna would have missed this. Second, Barnett's liner notes (2000, p. 4) says that "probably in 1916/17, Sibelius deposited [the score] at Helsinki University Library". This would seem to differ from Väisänen's account (which, by the way, I trust the most). Thoughts?
3. Finally, I wanted to know if, based on the HS sources, you can tell if the recording of the Jalas performance is from the private concert on June 12 (is it at University Hall???) or the public concert from June 13 (Messuhalli)... a record was gifted to Frederik IX! Moreover, look what I found in YLE's archives (!!!): https://areena.yle.fi/audio/1-61877128. I listened to the whole thing... AMAZING! What a fascinating historical document (even if the soprano is very pitchy). There is apparently a commentary under the tab NÄYTÄ LISÄÄ, which I plan to translate eventually via Google translate. My guess is that this recording is from June 12. Thoughts?

I think a lot of this would be solved if I could get a copy of Goss's chapter Sibelius's Kullervo after 1892 (assuming it's in English, which I think it would be, given that she's American) in Hundra vägar har min tanke: Festskrift till Fabian Dahlström, but thus far the library for the university I work for has been unable to get it via Inter Library Loan. Most warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:42, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Dear Silence of Järvenpää. I will not pretend to be an expert and will not comment on the questions other than from the perspective of the HS articles I have found:

1. The 1935 HS article is indeed from the March 2 issue, describing events of "yesterday", March 1. Unless they had a time machine, it could not have been March 3. I have also checked my translation of the 1958 article against the original and I have not made a mistake here, it indeed claims the concert was on March 3.
2. I've again checked my translation and that is what it says: the manuscript was acquired in 1920, meaning that it was deposited either in 1920 or later.
3. The June 12 private concert was indeed at the University Hall (Helsingin yliopiston juhlasali). This is identified e.g. in the caption of the photo in the June 13 issue of HS I mentioned in the section above, as well as in the YLE link you provided. The YLE link talks about Kullervo's performance history in general. About the recording, it says the following:

"On 12 June 1958, the newspapers wrote of a historic occasion. The greatest work of the composer's earliest period, Kullervo symphony, would be heard during the Sibelius week for the first time in 65 years. Sibelius had died in the previous autumn, on 20 September 1957.

The invitational concert organized by the government in the university festive hall was honored by the presence of the Danish king Frederik with his entourage and president Kekkonen. The Helsinki City Orchestra was conducted by Sibelius' son-in-law Jussi Jalas, the choir was Laulu-Miehet and the soloists soprano Liisa Linko and baritone Matti Lehtinen. Because Kullervo interested the public widely, the work was performed again the next evening on 13 June at the Helsinki Messuhalli. (The recording has brief interference at the end of the first and second movements.)"

As you can see, it is unclear about which concert the recording is from, as was the 1958 HS article I translated to you. (While searching about this in the archives, did you know that the 1970 first official recording was not only preceded by the 1958 one but also a "pirate" one by an American label Saturnian Records, made in c. 1969, apparently made from the 1958 tapes that were sent abroad for radio broadcasts of the concert? The 1965 Sibelius Week performance was also recorded on tape. There might be some more stories.)

Goss' chapter is in English. There are 10 copies of Hundra vägar har min tanke but none in my city. If you can't access it at all and need me to do it, it requires either an inter library loan or a trip to Helsinki (which, at the earliest, would be this summer). – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:00, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! I cannot believe that it slipped my mind to reply to you... terribly discourteous, especially given how helpful you've been to my work on Kullervo. Thank you for taking a moment to contemplate my three questions. I think #1 is settled (I will include a footnote in the article that some sources incorrectly place the date as 3 March). Thanks for double-checking on #2. On #3, I really appreciate you taking the initiative to translate the YLE page for me! I guess we'll never quite know which of the two Jalas concerts the recording is from...a minor, minor detail if there ever was one. And how interesting on the other recordings front! I had no idea there was a pirated version of the 1958 Jalas from 1969, but I guess that makes since if it was radio broadcast at some point. I also had no idea about the 1965 Sibelius Week... who's the conductor and the performers?

Thanks for the offer on the Goss... I might have to indeed turn to you for it, as my ILL request here in the U.S. is still 'awaiting request'. Anyway, I've been taking a break from Kullervo... wrote a NEW article on Kajanus's Aino and am now playing around with Mielck's Symphony in F minor... each is somewhat 'legendary' in Sibelius circles as having 'inspired' Sibelius (to compose Kullervo and the Symphony No. 1, respectively). It's been so fun to use the National Library of Finland digital archives to unearth fascinating details about both the Kajanus and the Mielck works that have been 'lost' to history (or at least English-language sources, including CD liner notes). Been using a lot of Google Translate's Swedish-to-English function!

Very warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:07, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: There was indeed a 1965 performance of Kullervo during the Sibelius Week of that year, on 28 May. It was conducted by Jalas and the soloists were Eini Liukko-Vaara and Matti Lehtinen. The venue was the Helsinki University.

But let me correct a mistake I have made: there was no tape made from this concert, but from another one in the 1960s:

"The work re-entered [after the 1890s] the mind of the Finnish musical public only in 1958 when Jussi Jalas conducted at the Sibelius week. The next performance was also at the Sibelius week and by Jalas but only in 1965. Last year [1969] Kullervo was performed at a concert of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) conducted by Paavo Berglund. The Radio Symphony Orchestra played while Raili Kostia and Usko Viitanen acted as the soloists and the choir was assembled from singers of the radio symphony choir, YL and MM. A tape made from the concert has been since performed in many countries."

Belatedly yours, – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:32, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finnusertop! Lovely to hear from you... I had been missing our chats! Thanks for the details on the performances (but, may I ask, for the 28 May 1965, who was the male chorus? and, if I wanted to cite a source for that performance, what would it be?). My ILL for the Goss piece was rejected as "all options exhausted", so if you could nab a copy for me via ILL or next time you go to Helsinki, I would be severely in your debt (as usual)! Oh, and I finally learned how to make userboxes, and so have been having some fun of late making Sibelius-related ones. A waste of time for sure! Ha! :) Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 14:49, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

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March thanks

March songs

Thank you for improving articles in March. Music if you like. Prayer for Ukraine. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

The Prayer is on the Main page, finally + new flowers, and btw: the TFA is a young writer's first --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:01, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Internet Archive Scholar vs. JSTOR

Hello, I see on your user page that you use JSTOR and I'd like to know more about your experience. By my calculations, a good 70 % of the main JSTOR content is now available for everyone at Internet Archive Scholar, with full text search provided e.g. at https://scholar.archive.org/ . The service is still in beta, but I've used it for some source-finding and it seems quite usable to me; I wonder whether that's just my experience. If you have a chance, the next time you'd be looking for a source on Google Scholar or JSTOR or similar, to perform the same search on IA scholar instead, I'd be curious to hear how it ends up. Thanks, Nemo 19:07, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Sibelius's Kullervo Symphony (Part III)

Dearest Finnusertop: I hope you've been well! I am loath to once again call upon you, out of fear that I am taking advantage of your generosity and overstaying my welcome. But, I have encountered a problem: Finnish (and Swedish) language newspaper articles from the 1892 Kullervo premiere that utilize an old-style font, which I can't decipher and which the National Library of Finland's auto-text conversion software seems to malfunction with. Would it be possible for you to translate the two articles for me that correspond to Oskar Merikanto's reviews in Päivälehti?

• Merikanto ("O.") in Päivälehti on 28 April 1892, No. 97
• Merikanto ("O.") in Päivälehti on 30 April 1892, No. 99

The first one is very brief, and the second is approximately two columns. I'm just finding it difficult to contextualize the premiere without the original reviews, which are tantalizingly at my fingertips. On a related note, do you know anyone on WP who you trust of Swedish-to-English translations? Because, the review by Karl Wasenius in Hufvudstadsbladet is similarly in that old-style font. The link is:

• Wasenius ("Bis.") in Hufvudstadsbladet on 29 April 1892, No. 115

Fortunately, the reviews by Karl Flodin in Nya Pressen are not in the old-style font, and I was able to use Google translate to get a rough sense of his thoughts. Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 16:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Dear Silence of Järvenpää. I actually enjoy translating these a fair bit, and draw further pleasure from the fact that it helps you in your brilliant work. You are right about the old font messing up the text conversion software, so some sort of human effort is necessary to produce a translation. I was surprised, and greatly amused, by the level of hyperbole even in the newer articles, but these two by Merikanto definitely take the cake. Here are the results of my efforts:

• 28 April review:

A concert of Sibelius takes place today. His newest and grandest work, "Kullervo", will be performed for the first time. Given that Sibelius has already amazed us with his ingenious, rich imagination, masterful command of different forms of composition, original expression of emotions, and good setting to musical implements [=instrumentation?], qualities which can be seen in all of his works, he shall now certainly bewilder us with this excellent creation. He will take us to completely uncharted territory, to unknown music halls, he will bring before our eyes the most beautiful gems of our national epic, he will caress our ears with divine chords, which we recognize as our own, even though we have never heard them as such. Great torrents of musical floods will send shivers down our spines; we feel like we are in a different world when strange harmonies and odd melodies weave around us. Amazed, we shall look at one another and whisper: "magnificent!". And indeed: we have never heard music like that before. Finnish music definitely has a future in Mr. Sibelius. Of the work in question we shall not say anything further until later. It has to be heard by each and every soul tonight. O.

References

• 30 April review:

Jean Sibelius and his "Kullervo". Those who heard Sibelius' "Kullervo" for the second time at the concert held yesterday readily admitted to enjoying the work more now, that they understood more of it than at the first time, which is all too natural. Additionally, a better impression was made by the concert held yesterday in the sense that the performance was all around more whole [unbroken], smoother than the night before. The audience, strong in numbers, was excited, like it had been the first time around, and the composer was summoned many a time by thunderous applause and cheers. And now to the work at hand.

Jean Sibelius is an artist who occupies his own space and has his own freedoms. He does not consider how others have interpreted one feeling or another, rather, he knows how he himself will interpret it, and he will accomplish it whether he has to break old conventions and appear as a "mister better than you" or not. In addition to this originality - a gift that cannot be praised highly enough -, Sibelius has such an abundance of emotions and ideas that when they take hold they race each other to reach the surface, bouncing off each other, leaving one behind here and another one there, and when it's time to produce a whole from these elements - in the sense that a whole is understood e.g. in a work of music - this "whole" feels like puzzling together small pieces that have little to do with each other. Sibelius music, you see, is full of anxiety, restlessness. No wonder then that we do not always find a conventional and systematic whole in his compositions even though we must always find the original and impressive music of a genius in them. Perhaps Sibelius wants to free from everything that we are otherwise accustomed to and be a pioneer traversing toward a new direction. This assessment is given credence to by his newest work, wherein he has shown that he knows what he is able to do, and that he is able to do what he wants.

"Kullervo" is a five-movement composition that covers the main aspects of the life of its titular hero. Its portrayal is vivid and so very Finnish that every part of the work breathes the ancient, convinced and sorrowful Finnish spirit. We have to wonder how Mr. Sibelius has from the beginning to the end of the work resided in the same, very Finnish "stil". While it gives to the work ultimately permanent value, it also imprints the work with a kid of strange effect that we Finnish are so accustomed to and keen on. That is the reason why our audience, that has from the beginning found it hard to understand Sibelius' music, from the first time hearing this work fell in love with it and became convinced by it.

The first movement is "Introduction", leading us first and foremost to the Finnish stil and secondly to the events that are one by one taken up by subsequent movements. In its makeup, this movement is for the most part intermittent, lacking a whole as discussed above. The second part "Youth of Kullervo" is a beautiful and impressive orchestral number. A lullaby is heard in it, the son is seen playing outside, amid wuthering trees and birdsong, he is seen testing his strength, rolling big boulders, etc. The third part is a most exciting work of music. The male chorus monophonically sings verses of the Kalevala about Kullervo's journey to "take on, pay in grain of the earth". When Kullervo returns from this journey, he briskly rides "on the plains of Väinö, on fields cut in ancient times", three times encounters a girl whom he tries to seduce to enter his sled, the third time by force he "places [her] in his basket". Sebelius has masterfully depicted Kullervo's ride, lashing of the whip etc., as well as him seducing and the girl's reluctance. When Kullervo then shows the girl his hold and silver, he wins her over. Kullervo and his sister getting together, which is to ruin them both later, is wonderfully and most realistically conveyed by the orchestra. The beautiful parts are followed by more, e.g. by the sister telling of her childhood memories of picking berries, singing on top of a tall hill, responses of the echo, her crying, and when she laments that her poor self did not die the year before, or three summers since, - these are strange to ears who have not heard them, sad for those who have not witnessed. Even if this part has huge sections of the sister singing, there are even more in Kullervo's lament. Guilt and bitterness have verily not been depicted better or in a more shattering way than here. It is truly to be considered Mr. Sibelius' greatest flash of genius until now. The fourth movement depicts Kullervo going to war. It is an amusing section due to its more lively content and fun [instrumentation]. It is clearly heard in it how Kullervo "played [an instrument] at the swamp, played it on ground, and played it at the plains". The fifth and final movement includes Kullervo's demise. The male quartet sings of Kullervo walking, how he reaches the spot "where he had tarnished a maid, brought ruin upon the one given birth to by his mother". In an elatedly sad manner the orchestra accompanies the choir singing about how "there lay the grass so sweet weeping, the field so dear complaining". But when Kullervo takes his sword, one thinks he sees a flash and hears the sound of a word striking. The internal pain is now portrayed excellently as Kullervo asks his sword whether it wants to taste guilty flesh. And the sword replies that since it tastes the flesh of the innocent, why not of the guilty as well. The work gets even more impressive, it transfixes the audience's attention on Kullervo's suicide. And when the orchestra thunderously rages, embracing dissonant notes, and finally sets into silence on a forceful chord, one feels sort of relieved, thinking that it has finally happened. But the choir is not yet silent: it tells what happened and does this in a terrifying way. Only after this peace sets in, a silent meditation of Kullervo's crime and its punishment follows. The choir solemnly declares: "it was the death of a young man, the demies of the brave called Kullervo", and with a couple of forceful notes the work comes to an end.

This is what the first truly Finnish composition is like. O.

References

I'll try to take a look at your other requests soon. Cheers – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:47, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Dear Finn, Thank you so much for your work on the Merikanto reviews! He certainly is hyperbolic, but you know what, I kind of find his enthusiasm exhilarating! A man grappling with the excitement of the dawn of Finnish art music! It's interesting that all the critics (Merikanto, Flodin, etc.) found problems in Kullervo when it was revived for the 1893 concert season. I wonder why the change of heart? I haven't yet been able to translate the reviews from that year. Thanks also, for your complements on my work... I sometimes lose faith and confidence in my ability to do the piece justice, but I press on as my silly, little way of honoring Sibelius's memory. His music means a lot to me. Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

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May thanks

May songs

Thank you for improving articles in May! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

I like my talk today (actually mostly from 29 May - I took the title pic), enjoy the music, two related videos worth watching! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:34, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Happy WikiBirthday!

9 years and 80,000 edits later... 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊|🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦|☎️|📄 12:38, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

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June songs

June songs

Thank you for improving articles in June! My song collection is especially rich, look, and the hall where I first heard DFD, Pierre Boulez and Murray Perahia. Do you find the baby deer in the meadow (last row)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Quick question

Hi Finnusertop. I just completed your RM/TR request for Ministry of Posts and Telecommunications (North Korea), but just noticed that the original title seems to have been Ministry of Post and Telecommunications (North Korea) (singular "Post"). Do you know which one is correct? DanCherek (talk) 18:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@DanCherek: Even official sources (i.e. KCNA) seem to use both interchangeably. This is also true for third party sources. It really seems like a coin toss, so you can go with you RM gut instinct. I'll make sure to have it moved if I ever start to see a pattern emerging in sources out there. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:29, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! DanCherek (talk) 18:30, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Dear Finnusertop, I hope you are well. Albeit I have slowed down my visible contributions to Wikipedia's DPRK coverage, I have some things in the works. I am glad you continue to be around and I count you as an fellow Wikipedian of note for your good work. I look forward to both of us continuing to contribute to this important area for time to come, and for our paths continuing to cross. To accompany these greetings, I am offering you a cookie :-) Al83tito (talk) 02:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

		A cookie!
		Hi Finnusertop! Here's a cookie for you! Enjoy it and see you around. Al83tito (talk) 02:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Al83tito, I sure love a good cookie! Do you have something specific in mind? Depending on the topic, I might be able to help you. As for me, I've been slow too, mostly focusing on copyediting. I do have some ideas, and some drafts around, but taking it easy for now. Cheers! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:49, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

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Sibelius's opera!

Hi, Finn! A quick request. Assuming that you have retained your subscription to Helsingin Sanomat and have a bit of time, could you look to see if there was a news report or critical review on the topic of Sibelius's only opera (from 1896, but then withdrawn after three performances): The Maiden in the Tower (in Swedish: Jungfrun i tornet; in Finnish: Tornissa olija impi). On 28 January 1981 (at least that's the date on an LP I have seen), Sibelius's son-in-law Jussi Jalas and the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra resurrected it for a radio concert on yle. Would love to see if the Finnish press even saw this performance as an event worth reporting on and, if so, what they had to say in Finland's paper of record! Thanks and hope you've been well, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:41, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Dear Silence of Järvenpää. There is plenty of coverage. I will provide translations (via email) or summaries upon request:

• 19 August 1980: a foretaste of the 1980–1981 season of the Radio Symphony Orchestra. It notes that it will be especially interesting to hear the Maiden that will be performed for the first time since 1896 on 28 January 1981. Conductor Jalas and performers are listed and the other piece of the concert (Brahms' Violin concerto).
• 28 January 1981: two background notes about the piece. One by Seppo Heikinheimo (ostensibly for concertgoers) and the other by Hannu-Ilari Lampila (for the live radio broadcast of the concert).
• 30 January 1981: review of the performance by Tawastjerna.
• 8 and 9 January 1982: a year after the concert, it is re-aired both on TV and radio (TV and radio guide) on 9 January.
• 26 March 1982: the Maiden's aria is broadcast on the radio (radio guide).

Cheers – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 09:29, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! Oh, how exciting... thanks a lot of your careful searching. May I have translations of the background notes by Heikinheimo and Hannu-Ilari Lampila, especially? The review by Tawaststjerna would be nice, as well. Do any of the articles mention that Jalas re-copied the orchestral parts, using Sibelius's originals from 1896, himself? Just curious. Do you still have my email from last time, with the Kullervo? Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 19:14, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: I think you'll have to re-enable the Wikipedia:Emailing users function. I'll supply you with the translations you requested. The background notes by Heikinheimo contains what is probably an allusion to re-copying: "Jussi Jalas has done a great feat by making the score performable, for it was inscribed so unclearly that no one should have been made to take up this cross." – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:22, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! Thanks again... I have reactivated my email. How has your summer been going? Well, I hope! Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 14:00, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: you've got mail! Sorry for the late reply. Had a busy week. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:07, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

My dear Finn! Of course, no apologies are necessary... as always, I so very appreciate you stepping up to the plate to help me. I think I'm quite close to submitting The Maiden for the GA, and your translations from 1981 will be the icing on the cake. (Man, I'm full of colloquialisms today! Ha!) I hope you've been well and editing rewardingly. Warmly, until we cross paths again, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Finn! Might you be able to do a quick short one for me? I get the idea from Google translate, but as I would like to quote some of the choice phrasing, I wanted an expert:

Karl Flodin, jonka nimen ylle nyt myös on risti piirrettävä, ensimmäinen arvostelijamme, hienoaistinen säveltäjä ja teräväkynäinen kirjailija... Karl Flodin arvostelijana oli ennen kaikkea taiteellisesti mukana elävä persoonallisuus. Ei niin sanoakseni konsertin kirjanpitäjä ex officio, vaan myös kuulija, joka innostuu, kun innostuttavaa kuultavaa on. Flodin kirjoitti usein pitkältä, multa hänen arvostelujaan luettiin siltä mielellään, sillä niissä oli aina ydintä ja asiaa, vaikkakin muoto oli yhtä elegantti kuin monen arvostelijan, joilla ei olekaan muuta kuin muoto. Ja ennen kaikkea toistan vielä: Flodin oli oikeamielisimpiä arvostelijoita, mitä tässä vaikeassa ammatissa varmaankin tapaa. Ketäpä ei Flodin olisi joskus moittinutkin!"

Thanks for the help! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 22:45, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: certainly:

Karl Flodin, above whose name we must now draw a cross as well, our first critic, a sensitive composer and a sharp writer... As a critic, Karl Flodin first and foremost embodied a personality that lived with [the subject matter] artistically. Not a scribe making records of the concert ex officio, so to speak, but a listener who gets excited, when there is something to get excited about. Flodin used to write long, but his critiques where read eagerly because they always contained essence and knowledge, even if form was also as elegant as by many a critic who indeed could offer nothing but form. And most importantly, let me repeat: Flodin was one of the most just critics that one can imagine encountering in this demanding profession. There is probably no one that Flodin had not at times scolded!

Thanks a lot Finn! Yes, it was indeed his death for (a). And given that his reviews are lengthy, I bet that's what was meant for (b). Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 17:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

We have to reminisce especially his hardworking and skillful writing on clarifying the character and significance of Sibelius' music at a time when public opinion about such was still in a state of chaos.

If you end up quoting some of it, feel free to touch it up a bit to make it more idiomatic. As always, I tend to translate in a rather literal fashion so as to retain all details. Cheers. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:17, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

July thanks

July songs

Thank you for improving articles in July, especially this opera! - I was away, for hiking in the Swiss Alps and a funeral, more on my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:58, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt: Finn e usertop is, unfailingly, one of the most helpful Wikipedians I know! Hooray for them! :) ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 16:43, 10 August 2022 (UTC) [Edit: Oops! Finn not Finne... haha] ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 16:46, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes! - I just created a Finnish singer, Matti Lehtinen, and need to interrupt. I don't know Finnish, - my feeling is that the English source is a translation of the Finnish. Yes? Can you - all - please correct/add/reference, for example from the Finnish article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:36, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Gerda Arendt ~ I took a stab, using Google Translate. Hope this helps. There's a pic of Lehtinen on Finnish Wikipedia, but I'm not sure if it meets copyright here open English Wikipedia, and so I didn't add it. It would be nice to know if he got wounded in the Winter War, the Continuation War, or both... he does specifically cite fighting a Soviet tank, but the Finns fought the Soviets in each. Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 23:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: you are correct. The English source at observatorial.com is a (bad) translation of the Finnish one in HS. It should be replaced with HS, and I shall do this after I've verified everything is there. I also found some other sources I'll add.

@Silence of Järvenpää: the picture is fine, I think. I'll double check and add the necessary templates at Commons. As for the war he was wounded in, according to the HS source it was the Continuation War. It says he was wounded twice in the Continuation War, both times by Soviet tanks. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: Update regarding the picture: to be completely sure, I'd need to prove that it was published before 1966. It is likely but I cannot prove it. By the way, it has been a dreadful August for great Finnish artists: Jussi Hakulinen, Vesa-Matti Loiri, and now Lehtinen. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 09:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

August thanks

August songs

Thank you for improving articles in August! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:34, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Look at the church where I heard VOCES8, including Sibelius. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:39, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

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ITN recognition for Matti Lehtinen

On 20 August 2022, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Matti Lehtinen, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. PFHLai (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Eight years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:51, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Matti Lehtinen

On 7 September 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Matti Lehtinen, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Matti Lehtinen, a baritone of the Finnish National Opera and professor of singing at the Sibelius Academy, was the voice of God at age 93? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Matti Lehtinen. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Matti Lehtinen), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

September songs

Thank you for improving articles in September! Yesterday, we sang old music for two choirs at church, pictured, scroll to the image of the organ of the month of the Diocese of Limburg (my perspective), and if you have time, watch the video about it. And today I wrote an article about music premiered today, Like as the hart. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:57, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

travel and strings sound --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:59, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Assassination_of_Kim_Jong-nam

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October thanks

October songs

Thank you for improving articles in October! - Look for mine: two favourite concerts were on DYK, and too many on RD (three yesterday). -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:08, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

who shall separate us --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:46, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

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November thanks

November songs

Thank you for improving articles in November while I was on vacation. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

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Season's wishes, with thanks

December songs

happy new year

Thank you for improving article quality in December! Best wishes for a joyful season! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:28, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

You too, Gerda. Vom Himmel hoch... – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:37, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Vom Himmel hoch! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:01, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Today, pictured, the soprano of our choral concert of the year. More in the context: User talk:Gerda Arendt#DYK for Talia Or, in case of interest. - And we sang Vom Himmel hoch at church! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:48, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Wrong Ministry of Unification ID?

Hi, in Special:Diff/949609018 you referenced 5393 in the Ministry of Unification database however this seems to about Kim Yong-il (김영일, born 17 March 1947) instead of Jon Mun-sop (전문섭, born 24 November 1919) and I can't seem to find Jon Mun-sop in the database.

I noticed this because I'm currently trying to link the database to Wikidata.

References

Nintendofan885^{T&Cs apply} 23:59, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Nintendofan885. I was confused for a while looking at this edit of mine from two years ago, but I've figured it out. You're right, there is no MOU entry for Jon Mun-sop. But I've cited Kim Yong-il's entry becaues it mentions Jon Mun-sop, his father in law (under family relations/가족사항) giving his date of birth and death.

I'm very happy to hear that you are linking MOU's NK Info to Wikidata. I use both resources all the time. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 12:20, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Ah ok, it just confused me when I was importing existing IDs from enwiki. Also thanks :) --Nintendofan885^{T&Cs apply} 12:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.