User talk:Eliphaletnott/Union College

Some issues noted while reading/copy editing

Issues listed per section of the article:

Founding

• What does hence "school of the prophets" mean? Maybe a note would be useful to expand upon the term?
  • eliminate. Eliphaletnott (talk) 11:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
• Reference is made to the NY Legistlature in 1779; did it exist then? Or could it possibly have been a different body?
  • It should refer to the NYS Assembly. Eliphaletnott (talk) 13:19, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
• For future reference, don't describe things with opinion words like "their little town"; additionally, don't add emphasis to events, like "...Romeyn was invited by, of all people, John C. Cuyler...". This keeps things neutral.
  • Just trying to be at least slightly entertaining. Eliminate. Eliphaletnott (talk) 11:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
• Confirm that the first sentence of the fourth paragraph should read, "The Academy flourished, reaching an enrollment of about 100 within a year of its founding..." It originally said "within a years of its founding" and I wasn't sure if the word "few" should be in there or if "year" had an extra "s" by mistake.
  • The singular is correct; poor proofreading on my part. Eliphaletnott (talk) 11:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
• Confirm that when the Regents are referenced, the Regents of the University of the State of New York are what are meant.
  • It is. Eliphaletnott (talk) 11:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
• Confirm that "Columbia College" (referenced in last sentence of section) is indeed Columbia University, which I have wikilinked to.
  • The college part is still called "Columbia College in the City of New York". The college became the University eventually, but is still the undergraduate part. Eliphaletnott (talk) 11:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that's it for this section; feel free to respond under each bullet to respond (type ** to make a bullet indented past the first one). upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 03:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

• Perhaps in the last sentence, rather than saying "sectarian control", it be changed to "sectarian influence"? The word control seems too negative to me.

Otherwise, this section is good. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 03:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

• • Actually, "sectarian influence" is too weak in this context; I have tried changing it in a different way entirely. Eliphaletnott (talk) 17:29, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Architecture and design

• Second paragraph contains "(Raymond I: 145, 147)"; is this a note to yourself to reference in the future?
  • Fixed.Eliphaletnott (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
• Was the education lottery mentioned in the second paragraph the same New York Lotto of today? If so, a wikilink would be appropriate.
  • Not exactly the same, but same idea. Link probably would mislead.Eliphaletnott (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
• Fourth paragraph: Can the term "North Country" be removed or better defined? To me it means North Country, New York, though in this context, it seems to mean upstate New York.

upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 01:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

• • Changed to what Parishville says about itself.Eliphaletnott (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Tone and links

The "Distinguished alumni (selected)" section has a promotional tone that doesn't use the neutral point of view. I suggest making it less of an argument about how succesful Union College alumni have been, and letting the sources and entries speak for themselves. Also, I'm concerned about the number of external links in the text. WP:EL says External links should not normally be used in the body of an article. Instead, include appropriate external links in an "External links" section at the end of the article, and in the appropriate location within an infobox, if applicable. On the whole, the article looks like a great improvement. Thanks for the effort.   Will Beback  talk  05:14, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

• I will be rewriting the lead paragraphs for the Alumni section. We'll also probably make the alumni list a separate page. UraniaNott (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
• Lead paragraphs of Alumni section rewritten to remove partisan tone. Eliphaletnott (talk) 15:23, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
  • This is simply my style of writing. I worked hard to make the entire article as neutral as I could, as well as thoroughly documented. Probably overdid somewhat. I can rewrite the introduction to the alumni section if you think it wise. Perhaps I could just provide some prominent examples, as other sites do, and leave the rest of it for the reader to evaluate? Eliphaletnott (talk) 12:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
    • No such thing as being too documented or sourced. Always err on the side of citation, which you've done a great job of here. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 20:54, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I plan to reduce the links as I complete my copyediting of the article. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 11:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Rewrite of the lead

Can this section from the current lead be worked into the history section? It is too in-depth for the lead and is missing from the history section; it is interesting and notable enough to be here, just not in the lead:

Certain that General Burgoyne's defeat at the Battle of Saratoga two years before would mean a new nation, nearly 1,000 citizens of northern New York (which then included what eventually became Vermont) began the first popular demand for higher education in America. Local academic and religious activists persisted in these efforts for sixteen years until the Regents of the University of the State of New York recognized the school with that institution's first charter.

Thanks. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 00:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Rankings

Rankings added from current web editions of US News and Forbes. Eliphaletnott (talk) 15:21, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Athletics

I will work on an expansion of the Athletics section. Eliphaletnott (talk) 17:03, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, as noted, "A link to Achilles Rink is definitely warranted." Otherwise, this looks fantastic! Bearian (talk) 21:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Pictures

First of all, bravo on the revision of the article. It obviously includes some well-thought changes and major effort. Please change the picture of the Nott Memorial (at the top of the article) to a picture of the Official Seal of Union College. Use other wiki pages of colleges / universities as a guide; they all have their official seal at the top of the article. Also, what happened to the list of well-known alumni that was in the previous article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adotj (talk • contribs) 16:21, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

If you look at the wikicode, the official seal and logo are both there, but commented out. These images are fair use, and cannot be used outside of the actual Union College article. Also commented out are relevant categories and some other information that is not yet pertinent to the rewrite. Once we migrate it over, the images and categories will be included. upstateNYer_{formerly wadester16} 22:18, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The distinguished alumni section has been radically expanded and made more inclusive; it is in the collapsed subsections under "Distinguished Alumni". Probably, after the dust settles, it should all be moved to a daughter page. Eliphaletnott (talk) 23:10, 2 September 2009 (UTC)