User talk:Dr.warhol

Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. One of the core policies of Wikipedia is that articles should always be written from a neutral point of view. It appears you have not followed this policy at Brisbane Punk Rock. Please always observe our core policies. Thank you.

The article is very well written, demonstrating extensive knowledge of the subject. However please avoid introducing personal viewpoints (mainly about right wing governments and the police force) unless these can be verified by a reliable source. I have also flagged the article to cite further references, and have indicated several places in particular where these are needed. If you have any queries or believe my edits to be in error please don't hesitate to bring them up on my User_talk:Guycalledryan talk page. Guycalledryan 07:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read the new page, and it's looking good. But I still think you're placing too much emphasis on the role the government had to play, and this can be seen to violate WP:NPOV. Remember, that the music scene is comprised of many other elements other than just history, music style, influences, the sub culture (eg clothing, methods of speech) that accompany it so on so forth. Perhaps you could try expanding these rather than focusing on the relationship between the government and disadvantaged groups. Nevertheless keep up the good work Guycalledryan 09:30, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Brisbane Punk Rock

User Dr.warhol Hi guycalledryan, Are there any updates or progress on the above subject? Thanks, Dr.warhol 10:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, sorry I didn't reply sooner, I've been pretty busy at study+work and haven't had much time to edit wikipedia. Nonetheless I'll be around for the next couple of days, so I'll see if I can explain myself more wholly.

My main issue with the article is the over emphasis that it gives to the political climate at the time, while it is understood that this is a large influence on the scene, it is not what should be comprising the entire article (this would only be the case if the article was, say, Political Backgrounds to Brisbane Punk Rock). I believe this could be corrected by dividing the article into a number of sections, one with the Background/Influences where you can talk about the political climate, and then other sections such as History, Music Style, Notable Bands, Subculture etc where you only discuss the government in a neutral tone if it directly relates to the section (eg if police closed a concert it would be allowable to mention it, but it would be ill advised to proceed to discuss how this act demonstrated the corrupt nature of the government). If you read over WP:NPOV it discusses giving undue weight to a particular component of an article, and Brisbane Punk Rock incorporates many other elements such as Music Style which should be addressed rather than raving on about how the government imposed upon civil liberties.

My second issue, and possibly a larger one, is the blurring between fact and opinion. Many aspects of the article are simply not fact, quotes such as "people were victimised simply for their looks" are presented as gospel when they simply a matter of opinion. Similarly there is a large problem with the sourcing of the article. For the sakes of clarity, I'm going to list every point.

• In the first paragraph, the section on people being victimised. Not only is this POV but all bar one of the references go to another wikipedia article which does not support their claims. The simple fact is a governments decision regarding land rights or the control permits regarding protests does not indicate a desire to victimise a certain group of people. The remaining link goes to a personal website which is pretty well unsourced in its information (all coming from a single person who I couldn't find information on) and is hardly a reliable source. Reliable sources which could be used to support this include official reports, established media journals, something which demonstrates that the government was actually victimising people.

• The quip about the unjust voting system, unless it can be shown that the Queensland government actually exploited a gerrymander (while a band may be well meaning in its lyrics they can be hardly taken as gospel, a commission, independant media report etc is more valid). The use of "unjust" without sourcing is simply POV

• The quips about undercover police and raids without provocation, while "On the Street" may be a media source it cannot explain the activities of the police unless it in turn has been sourced from the police or a related government/independant commission. As I don't have the article I'm relying on you to decide whether or not it does.

• The girl being arrested and interrogated for hours is hearsay, and unless confirmed by official sources (arrest report etc, once again the "On the Street" would need to have referenced these to be reliable) it is simply opinion, not fact

• "backlashed to an oppessed society", even though it is sourced is blatant POV

• "plagued by many disasters including regular raids by the Police", once again needs to be sourced. The connection between disaster and raids is clearly POV, the raids (if any) may have been justified by wholly legitimate reasons (searching for drugs, searching for weapons etc)

• "questioned the heavy handedness of the Police at a raid", needs to be sourced, and the source needs to be reliable (all I can find on the program is that it was on radio, raising questions of possible bias in the presenter). The quip about the protester getting bashed against a police van and subsequently being charged is all based from memory, which is anything but reliable, and also remains unsourced at this point.

I was going to suggest you post at Wikipedia:Requests for feedback, however given the recent AfD and the opinions that the article needs a rewrite I think the removal of POV statements is now more urgent and I may chop a few myself. As I've said before, the article is clearly one of the most researched and most detailed articles to be created on wikipedia, but it may be wise to stop trying to criticise the government and add more information on other aspects of the movement, such as musical style and clothing, outside of the history section. Guycalledryan 09:36, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: vandalism of Sicily

I have no idea what you are referring to. Please be more specific. Are you sure that you are not confusing me with someone else? Brianga 15:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Signing articles

Hi there,

One thing I'd like to point out: there is no need to sign any changes you make to an article, such as you did in this edit. Doing so only makes the article look less professional. You only need to sign comments you make on talk pages.

Thanks, Blair - Speak to me 09:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

re: Vandalism of Horror Punk

Hey there. I think you might be misunderstanding the notes in the history; it wasn't you I reverted, it was an IP address. When the history says "Reverted 1 edit by 70.189.223.178 identified as vandalism to last revision by Dr.warhol." this means I reverted the IP and went back to a version that you edited. If you look at the diff of what the IP address did [1], I think you can see why I chose to call it vandalism :) For the record I think you're editing is excellent and welcome to Wikipedia! Shell ^babelfish 09:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Vampire Lovers

At Talk:Vampire Lovers you requested information for improving the article so that the clarification template could be removed. I did not place the template but I have provided some suggestions on the talkpage for improving the article. When you feel you've made the changes you can remove the template yourself. The article could become C-class, or even B-class, with suitable development.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I see you've been busy making more changes to the article. For further comments refer to the talkpage wikilinked above.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about getting rid of Marty, it sounds like a "punk" name. But if he's on the EP that'll be OK.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible that Marty Lobotomy is a pseudonym for Murray Shepherd? See this MySpace entry; however as this is not reliable the article will need a better source for such a claim.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:12, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Marty≠Murray, I stand corrected. Is Murray in the list of past members, or was he just a session musician? In any case, you really know your material, I enjoyed learning more about The Vampire Lovers.

You seem to have a passion for Brisbane punk rock, did you read Long Way to the Top (the book) by James Cockington, in particular his chapter on "Sunshine Sounds"? He mainly deals with The Saints but he does give an interesting description of the Brisbane scene and how it developed in reaction to Joh's "police state". It's reference is <ref name="Cockington">{{cite book |last=Cockington |first=James |month=August |year=2001 |title=Long Way to the Top |chapter=Sunshine Sounds |publisher=[[Australian Broadcasting Corporation|ABC Books]] |location=[[Sydney|Sydney, NSW]] |isbn=0733307507 |accessdate=23 June 2009 |pages=210–217 }}</ref>

Keep up your good work.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 15:37, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Former members vs session musicians

My main source for The Vampire Lovers was the McFarlane entry. He does not list either Marty or Murray as actual members of the band (Murray is mentioned as being in Four Horsemen). If the liner notes for 13 Tasteless Masterpieces mentions them both as band members (as opposed to sessions musicians) and provides photos of them, then add the names in the appropriate place and use the required style. Give the liner notes as a reference as they are not in McFarlane. It may be difficult to give a time span in the members section for these two. Any progress on Marty's actual last name would be helpful. Have fun with your future projects.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The Vampire Lovers

As I said, I've seen it in McFarlane and Spencer, perhaps they dropped "The" at some stage. I'll go with what you've decided.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 23:31, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Nunbait/Dementia 13

Hi Dr.warhol. I have just created a page on Sydney (via Brisbane) punk band Nunbait. My wiki skills are limited. It has been flagged with some issues which I have researched but I'm not sure I can address ( I dont know how to dio "references" either). I'm not even sure if this is the correct page for me to ask for assiatnce from you. Anyway, if you are interested and if you are around and get the chance could you have a look at it? Regards Franko_velebitan Franko velebitan (talk) 21:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Nunbait

Thanks Dr Warhol...I will see if I fix it up a bit.

Yes Hacksaw was a great song.

As for another Nunbait in the 80s in Brisbane I do not recall that. I do recall a punk band called "Death of a Nun". I'm pretty sure the lead singer of "Death of a Nun" was drummer for "Prince of Weasels". "Prince of Weasels" eventually became ( more or less) "The Girlies".Franko velebitan (talk)

Juke magazine

To cite a magazine/newspaper I use: Template:Cite news.

As a made up example, consider an article on Renée Geyer from 1985 written by Ed Nimmervoll, the ref would look something like:

<ref>{{cite news | title = Geyer Is Heading in the Right Direction | first = Ed | last = Nimmervoll | authorlink = Ed Nimmervoll | newspaper = Juke | publisher = Leonard J Shaw | url = http://www.dhub.org/object/365196,music | location = [[Mount Eliza, Victoria|Mount Eliza, Vic]] | issn = | date = 2 November 1985 | page = | pages = | accessdate = 6 May 2010 }}</ref>

This could be used to back up a claim in Geyer's wikipedia article as:

Renée Geyer's single, "Heading in the Right Direction" was released in 1976.

If the author does not have a wikipedia entry leave authorlink empty, if the article is not on-line leave url and accessdate empty, if you know the page (or pages, but not both) then fill in. I'm not certain whether Shaw was the publisher throughout the history of the newspaper. Hope this helps.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I see that you have been working on Vampire Lovers recently. I've adapted my sample above to:

<ref name=JukeJan28>{{cite news | title = Alternatively Speaking | first = | last = | authorlink = | newspaper = Juke | publisher = Leonard J Shaw | url = | location = [[Mount Eliza, Victoria|Mount Eliza, Vic]] | issn = | date = 28 January – 14 April 1984 | page = 6 | pages = | accessdate = 6 May 2010 }}</ref>

If you know the author of the relevant page(s) put in first and last name. Make other changes as needed. This more specific version can be slightly changed to cite the other two Juke references.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:39, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Vampire lovers 1.jpg

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File source problem with File:Survivors record.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Survivors record.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 01:30, 2 May 2011 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Musamies (talk) 01:30, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Survivors record.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Survivors record.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright and licensing status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log.

You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Musamies (talk) 11:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Vampire lovers 1.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Vampire lovers 1.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright and licensing status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log.

You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Musamies (talk) 11:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:RAZAR 1.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Razar taskforce.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Mysteryofsixes idontknowyou 1.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Vampire lovers 1.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Vampire lovers 1.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Orphaned non-free image File:Survivors record.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Survivors record.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude2 (talk) 06:07, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

honest historian

	honest historian
	thanks for acknowledging the influence of briz cops on the punk scene and the horror of living under the BJ peterson era!! Soulparadox (talk) 09:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

VL to GA

I'm currently busy on another article, which may take up about a week or so of my attention. I had a quick look at VL and see that you'll have a lot of work to get it up to GA. I assume you've read the criteria and seen some of the recent GA music articles to get ideas for improving VL. A photo could be problematic but is not necessary for GA. Music samples can also be provided.

I'm not sure which other articles that are at Start which you were talking about, so I can't comment. Anyway, good to hear from you and I'll be along in about a week or so to see where I can help out on VL.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

TA for the heads up.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:10, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Time to get teeth stuck into VL.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:19, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Facebook refs are problematic, both current refs [14] and [15]. Neither is reliable for the claims made. Ref [14] seems to have been hi-jacked and leads to a Thai version of Facebook! If [15] can be verified as the Official website then it could be placed in the ELs section but it's not reliable and so can not be used to verify claims of cult status on an internet website. How notable is that website? I don't see how appearing on there is an important achievement.

When I visited Vampire Rave's Database: Bands, their rating was given as 9.624 (at about No. 16 of their list of 63). None of this is reliable: there's a detail description of how ratings/status are derived here, which hardly constitutes an open system. Unless it can be independently verified and the notability of this particular site established then the whole Vampire Rave portion of Legacy should be deleted.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:41, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

VL only visit Sydney? You'll need a reliable source for contradicting McFarlane (he does make mistakes but you have to show this).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

More feedback

1. The Leftovers – use McFarlane to add more in-line citations. Improve expression per VL example.
2. Fun Things – fix McFarlane ref with archiveurl and url per VL example, then use more in-line citations and improve expression.
3. The Survivors – needs in-line citations, an infobox. They appear to have no separate entry at McFarlane but are mentioned briefly at The Go-Betweens, The Passengers, The Riptides, X-Ray-Z, and Young Identities. I haven't checked for individual band members. More work needed on expression and style.

• The first two need a little work to get to C-class but a lot more to move them to B-class. No. 3 needs more than a little to get to C-class: start by adding an infobox and in-line citations then work on article format, expression and style.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

McFarlane

At Fun Things? According to this version of that article, McFarlane is being used at ref nos. [1], [2] a b, [3] and [9]. You're probably only going to use only one entry from his Encyclopedia? In that case use something like:

<ref name="McFarlane">{{Cite book | last1 = McFarlane | first1 = Ian | authorlink1 = Ian McFarlane | title = [[Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop]] | chapter = Encyclopedia entry for 'The Fun Things' | archiveurl = http://web.archive.org/web/20040930213540/www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=631 | url = http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=631 | archivedate = 19 April 2004 | accessdate = 23 January 2013 | year = 1999 | publisher = [[Allen & Unwin]] | location = [[St Leonards, New South Wales|St Leonards, NSW]] | isbn = 1-865-08072-1 }}</ref>

For the first time. Then use <ref name="McFarlane"/> as a ref tab for each subsequent use.

At The Leftovers? Try:

<ref name="McFarlane">{{Cite book | last1 = McFarlane | first1 = Ian | authorlink1 = Ian McFarlane | title = [[Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop]] | chapter = Encyclopedia entry for 'The Leftovers' | archiveurl = http://web.archive.org/web/20040419074247/www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=1010 | url = http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=1010 | archivedate = 19 April 2004 | accessdate = 23 January 2013 | year = 1999 | publisher = [[Allen & Unwin]] | location = [[St Leonards, New South Wales|St Leonards, NSW]] | isbn = 1-865-08072-1 }}</ref>

For the first time and then the same ref tab as in Fun Things for any subsequent use.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:24, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

[adminhelp] Dr.warhol (talk) 16:09, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Banners

I think you've misunderstood the purpose of the warning on talk pages for articles that are substantially biographical in nature (which they are). The warning on these talk pages tell people that they have to be cautious about what they write about living people even if they are in bands. It does not mean the article itself has any particular problem: that would use a different type of warning which usually sits in the article itself.

As for The Survivors (Australian band) and creating its talkpage: click on the Talk tab (it may be redlinked at the moment). This should take you to a page called, Creating Talk:The Survivors (Australian band). Once there copy and paste the content below: {{WikiProject Biography |living=yes |class=Start |musician-work-group=yes |listas=Survivors, The}}

{{WikiProject Australia|class=Start |importance=Low |music=yes |music-importance=Low}}

After you've created this talkpage, it should look similar to the others.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:33, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

More to do? Consider the following:

Use Vampire Lovers as your guide for improving the other articles. Although it has been improved a lot it might still need more tidying up to become a Good Article. Consider asking for a Peer review where other editors will advise on further areas of improvement prior to nomination at GA.

At Fun Things: there are a number of style issues throughout the article. In the Lead alone fix:

1. The Fun Things not The Fun Things unless the entire article is about their self-titled extended play.
2. Fix quotation marks and punctuation: full stops and commas go after quote marks in Australian English. e.g. mould". not mould".
3. Only one comma after vocals not two
4. The fact that Brad Shepherd and Murray Shepherd are brothers should be explicitly stated at the first mention.
5. Rewrite the sentence that starts with "After The Fun Things dissolved both Shepherd brothers successfully achieved greater aclaim" It currently is not neutral and also implies that they were together in the named bands. If these bands have their own articles then they should be wikilinked.
6. Graeme Beavis played with The Apartments for a period in 1984. > In 1984 Beavis was a memeber of [[The Apartments]].
7. Expand ref [2], then make ref [4] a tab similar to usage of McFarlane.
8. In the infobox use [[Vampire Lovers (band)|]]

Go through the rest of the article yourself and try to pick up other problems. I'll have another look at the other articles later today.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:37, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

At The Leftovers, aside from some similar problems to above.

1. Consider the Lead: ‘Hutch’ vs 'Burnaway' vs "Malcontent' (latter in infobox). Be consistent.
2. History: Delete unnecessary detailed information, e.g. ", such as at the Hamilton Hall and the Sandgate Town Hall"
3. Fix style problems, e.g. compiler for the Who's Who of Australian Rock > compiler for the Who's Who of Australian Rock and The A-side Cigarettes and Alcohol and is considered an > The A-side, "Cigarettes and Alcohol", is considered an
4. Fix refs, also combine&expand ref [1] and [7] using a tab.
5. Some important information needs refs e.g. "Shoebridge was viciously assaulted and had to be hospitalized", "singer Warren Lamond overdosed on drugs" (does this mean he died from the drug overdose? If so when?)
6. Greater clarification needed for
   1. "a string of tragedies to the band ex-members with suicide attempts, prison and premature deaths" name the individuals, give a timeline.
   2. "they managed to reform" who was in the line-up(s)?
   3. "premiering various bands from the late 1970's to early 1980's" is 'premiering' the right word? try 'featuring'? Also 'bands' > 'line-ups', 1970's > 1970s and other changes.
7. How is Ché Wreckage related to Ed?
8. Personnel: give time spans and full names.
9. Fix style in Discography.

More on other articles later.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:10, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

At The Survivors apply the same approach as above. Additionally:

1. Adjust unnecessary capitalisation, e.g. use guitar not Guitar.
2. In Lead: who/what is David Nicholls? Some sort of description is needed, similar to how you explain who Ian McFarlane is in the next paragraph.
3. Name the one single they released.
4. Explain the phrase "they did encounter the Queensland Police Force at some of their shows". What, specifically, did the police do? If they showed up, said hello and then left then this is not particularly significant and should not be in the Lead.
5. Live album released 10 years later: explain how it was based on a 1978 performance.

Have fun.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:24, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Burning The Story Bridge (March 28)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Onel5969 was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to User:Dr.warhol/Burning The Story Bridge and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
• You can also get real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Onel5969 (talk) 16:07, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello! I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Onel5969 (talk) 16:07, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: At The Solicitor's Request (March 28)

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Onel5969 (talk) 16:08, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Punk rock in Brisbane

Good to see you back on board. The article was assessed as Start class back in 2007. If you're aiming for GA status then a lot more work will be needed on reliable sources, clear and concise expression, NPoV and article structure. However, I think we can easily get the article up to C-class with re-writing by focussing on reducing non-neutral and poor expression. For B-class we'd have to also improve its structure, spruce up the refs to wikify their format and add more reliable & independent sources. Where possible let's try to avoid excessively long lists exemplifying bands of a particular sub-genre. In any case I'm willing to have a go helping you to improve its status.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:25, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Before the Saints, were they Kid Gallahad and the Eternals or Kid Galahad and the Eternals? Cockington, McFarlane, Nimmervoll and other reliable sources use Galahad. Do you have reliable sources for the Gallahad spelling?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:59, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome to contribute with or without removing the banner. Removing it would is a courtesy thing for those editors who visit your talkpage.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

You make a good point about Thatcher: I'll delete the first phrase of that quote. However, the rest of Cockington's quote is his opinion about the government of the day. Cockington believes that they were repressive and this influenced the early anarchistic punk exponents in Brisbane. McFarlane says something similar about the Brisbane scene, as does Nimmervoll.

As editors it is our job to provide their views as neutrally as possible. If the article has political elements which reflect poorly on the administration of the time but this is backed by a variety of reliable sources then this should be acceptable in my opinion.

Your caution is still a good idea: if you see anything that I've added to be too far one way or another then change/remove it. That's how collaboration works best.

P.S. Remove the Retired template from your talkpage to show others that you're back.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:00, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm taking a trip through Small Mercies for awhile, so jump into Brispunk and do some ref work. I hope to be back there in a few days or so.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:37, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

My advice is to leave three (or so) of the notorious/frequented venues per era. As we're only going up to B-class having refs per these is not as important as it would be at GA standard. I'll let you (with your extensive local knowledge) decide which of the venues are the most representative of the Brisbane scene.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:48, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

• I'm talking a hiatus from this article, I'll be working elsewhere on wp. I've assessed the article as C-class. Continue with your clean up: reduce the laundry listing of bands and venues. You should then be able to assess it as B-class.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:41, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Which to list?

If you feel uncomfortable and wish to avoid possible edit warring then either leave the laundry lists alone or go to the talk page and add a topic to describe why such lists should not appear in a prose article (cite WP:NOT and WP:OR). Invite discussion from editors for any non-notable bands (those without a wp article) which you want to delist from this article for the sake of readability and maintaining the article's focus. If the laundry lists remain, then it is unlikely that the article would get to GA in the future but you may be happy to give it a B-class standard.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:56, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

More to do?

Check each paragraph of the last two eras. Ask yourself: is each one well reffed? (This must be done for an direct quotes). Is there any material which doesn't belong? For the last era: does it clearly show how the Brisbane punk scene had dissipated into an alternative rock scene &/or lost its individualistic "Brisbane flavour" such that it was no longer noticeably different from other Australian punk scenes. Check the expression for overly zealous or peacock terms. After you're happy with it then you could assess it as B-class.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

1. The article is looking better. However, don't use RateYourMusic as a ref: its user-generated and not reliable. Get a better one for Black Assassins.
2. In the fourth sectn: in what way is Fat Mans Cleavage (a 2000s punk band) relevant to this article, which effectively ends at 1988?
3. As for other opinions, go ahead, I'm all for a wider range of opinions on any article: no one person owns wp and all articles are works in progress. It is my belief that in this particular article the political context is an important factor (not the only important factor) in the early development of the Brisbane scene. The political context's relevance is now backed by multiple independent reliable sources. Its not you or I saying that the politics were important, but its a range of other people saying this.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:12, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 31 August

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Rock punk Brisbane

As indicated previously, I have no particular problem with the Pioneers section as it stands – it is now well referenced. It provides the cultural context for the formation and development of this style of music under the local political and police environment of the mid-1970s. Back in July 2007 the article did lack reliable sources, it required toning down and refining of its focus. I think this has now been achieved in this section, but your mileage may vary.

P.S. ABC TV is due to broadcast Stranded on the birth of Australian punk, tonight. Do you think they will skip the political/police context?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:04, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Your draft article, User:Dr.warhol/Burning The Story Bridge

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In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. JMHamo (talk) 14:03, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

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