User talk:Cullen328/Archive 26

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Teahouse

Cullen, what is going on in that Teahouse, technically speaking? Does it run inside of a million templates? It takes forever to load and for a link to show up if I click on it... Drmies (talk) 22:10, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

My technical skills end at basic Wikicode, Drmies, but you are right that there is complex machinery behind the scenes there. I can put you in touch with the programmers if you want. I am surprised about the slow loading you report, though. For me, the Teahouse comes up as fast as any other page, as do outgoing links. By the way, ChesPal, AKA Mrs. Cullen sends her greetings. We are waiting for the restaurant staff to deliver our grilled fish. Trout for me, sole for her. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:39, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

No, I don't really want to know, but it turns me off a bit from the Teahouse. I'm in Albuquerque and can see the Sandias Mountains from my hotel window; five of my last six meals have had red and green chile in it, or what is called "Christmas" here. Bon appetit, and give my regards to the dear Mrs. Cullen: may she forever lead your dance. Drmies (talk) 22:42, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Last time I was in Albuquerque, I was amazed that one city could have so many used car dealerships but I guess I missed the "scenic route" into town. But Santa Fe and especially Taos are wonderful. I hope your voyage is pleasant and memorable. Are your girls with you? Yeah, they push that "Christmas" thing there which is unknown in California Mexican joints. Sorry the Teahouse gives you a bad vibe. I like hanging out there. Of course, your talk page is the friendliest dive on Wikipedia. By the way, the trout is gone but half the sole is in a leftover box. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:12, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Acharya S

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Acharya S. Legobot (talk) 00:00, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course

Thanks for taking the time to reply at Teahouse. The comments have been useful. I am currently collating all the information to make the changes. I have also been revising some of the information in other articles. I have made some changes in regard to vague or incorrect information. Again, Thanks ! agljones(talk)22:21, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind remarks. I would help if I had the expertise, the access to sources, or even a good understanding of how specific Americanisms read incorrectly or irritatingly to British folks. I have none of those, so I wish you well. I do support WP:ENGVAR, though, and trust you wouldn't add "petrol" to an American motorcycle article. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:43, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Cullen328/Archive 26. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by   Bfpage |leave a message  01:39, 24 March 2015 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

I forgot how to send a ping and was not sure if you are following my talk page, so I figure this is the best spot to post. feel free to delete; not watching. Cullen328, When you replaced the [2] link at 18:43, 25 March 2015, you deleted the reference to the top post. [3] The anti-sodomite remarkS (plural) come from the audio recording you removed at 19:12, 25 March 2015‎. DCdanielcaldwell 03:29, 26 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwaysremember (talk • contribs)

Ur Nattvindar

Hello Jim

Please review the above article. Am not too sure of the subject notability. Also check the albums released by Viking metal band Månegarm and let me know what you think about them. Thanks! Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 22:26, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello Wikicology. Thanks for withdrawing the AfD on Carolein Smit, by the way. I appreciate that. On this matter, please be aware that I know nothing about Swedish music in general or "Viking metal" in particular, though I have seen one or two other articles about that genre. Based on a quick look Google search, though, I doubt the notability of the band but could be convinced otherwise by a Swedish speaking editor with knowledge of this genre. But if we have a band of borderline notability, it is very hard for me to see how a demo album that was never released commercially can be notable. So, my one word summary of the whole group of articles is "dubious". Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:19, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life. Legobot (talk) 00:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Rohinisinghaliya

Yes it's my true "clean start" account.And can you help me about warn someone if he is messing with existance of an article??Rohinisinghaliya (talk) 08:31, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

My advice to you is to comply scrupulously with all our policies and guidelines, and refrain from harassing other editors. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 08:34, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Happy birthday!

No birthday should pass without cake to mark the occasion ... have a good one! Oh, and thanks for all your tireless efforts helping at the Teahouse; you make a difference. Gronk Oz (talk) 14:28, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Gronk Oz. I appreciate it. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:29, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Talk back

Hello, Cullen328. You have new messages at User talk:The Herald/Talkback.
Message added 05:32, 1 April 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

A barnstar for you!

The Civility Barnstar

Thank you! I was really impressed by the constructive and non-acrimonious tone and contributions from everyone involved in the recent AFD discussion on the Alliance of Women Directors article. What could have been—with the wrong editors involved—a very nasty debate, turned into a very positive discussion. Even editors who strongly felt that the article should be deleted worked hard to find sources and fix problems with it. This is the kind of positive collaboration people don't hear a lot about in Wikipedia-land and I'd like to recognize it. Carl Henderson (talk) 19:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Carl Henderson. I agree with your assessment of the quality of the discussion. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:09, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Stephen Cambone

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Stephen Cambone. Legobot (talk) 00:00, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Extremely Decent

Hey Jim, I think you might have missed a call at AfD. Do you mind doing a quick review of a couple links there? Carrite (talk) 17:54, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

I commented there, Tim, but I am not yet seeing significant coverage in reliable sources. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:40, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Public Storage

FYI - we previously discussed my COI situation regarding this page here. I have posted a full, in-depth disclosure of those circumstances here. I actually tried to refer them to Pete Forsyth, but they weren't comfortable with some of the details of his approach. I eventually agreed to take on the project, seeing no better way to handle it, and have requested closer scrutiny of my prior, volunteer edits, now that I have a COI, at COIN and the Talk page. This article experiences a lot of attack-oriented editing and I think needs close watching. Feedback or proposed alternative solutions that may further reduce any appearance of impropriety are welcome. CorporateM (Talk) 18:13, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I am very busy at the moment, CorporateM, but I will look things over this evening (Pacific Time). Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

There are two issues that I see here, CorporateM.

1. Should an admitted paid editor such as you, who has edited a specific article as a volunteer, be permitted to abandon their volunteer editing role, and edit that article, within policies and guidelines, as a disclosed paid editor? In my opinion, the answer to that question is "yes". I have no problem in theory with such a change, although I would oppose the opposite: active editing of an article as a volunteer once a paid client has ended their relationship with you.

2. What about the specific article Public Storage? I am a bit disappointed that you mentioned "attack-oriented editing" but chose not to mention what appears to me to be undisclosed COI or paid editing by likely employees or agents of the company. I find it bizarre that the first sentence mentions that the company is a REIT, which is of interest to potential investors, I suppose, but of little interest to the average person who wants to learn more about this company on Wikipedia. It seems indisputable to me that this company is vastly more notable as an operator of rented storage units than as a REIT. I see that much of the controversy about the company has to do with their controversial and questionable practices regarding the security of their facilities, the questionable practices regarding sale of burglary insurance, and the failure of such insurance to pay reasonable claims. If the business press reports that the sale of this insurance is an unusually lucrative profit center yet consumers report credible problems filing claims, then I would expect any Wikipedia editor, paid or not, working on an article about such a company to engage in a diligent search for reliable sources about such a controversy and include that material in the article. Normally, I would not make a comment addressing the subject of a Wikipedia article, but when such a company is hiring paid editors, my policy is different. Please convey this to your client: If you want a Wikipedia article that portrays your company in a better light, then do a far better job of securing your properties against burglary, and make damned sure that the insurance policies you sell actually pay legitimate claims rather than routinely denying them. And stop selling crappy locks. Until then, please expect that the Wikipedia article about your company will report your dubious business practices as long as you continue them. The article is on my watch list. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:35, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

It's disappointing that you would be so quick to presume I was hiding or mis-representing alleged personal knowledge of bad COI conduct.

It's unreasonable to portray Public Storage as a company that pays spin doctors to hide their faults. They do not have a single PR employee or agency.

I never made any statement to suggest my objective was to put them in a "better light", which is not representative of the assessment I provided them.

Every org page starts off by defining the subject, usually as a non-profit, private, or public company, but in this case as an REIT. I don't find this bizarre.

I find the International Directory of Company Histories (available online [1] here]) is usually a vague/rough representation of an NPOV article. That tertiary source is aligned with others[2][3] that seem to suggest their primary claim to notability is basically the Starbucks story - there's one on every block kind of thing.

I did mention to Public Storage that security concerns would be added if I can scrounge up proper sources, but in my preliminary assessment all I had found so far was local sources about individual burglaries from the crime beat.

The criticisms that were included in my assessment are completely different; they include failed investments in office space, troubles with the REIT structure, low pay at individual locations[4] and the routine ups and downs of business cycles.[5]

Anyways, lets talk about it when we get there. I have only done some preliminary research at this point.

CorporateM (Talk) 06:42, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

You mentioned "attack-oriented editing". Did you not also notice COI pro-company editing? I do not know if they are assigned and specifically paid, or are enthusiastic local managers acting on their own, or the boyfriends or girlfriends of employees. But they have edited the article and deserve your scrutiny as well. Your characterization of the KPIX San Francisco investigative reporting which quoted an official of the relevant California state agency as "local crime beat" reporting is quite unpersuasive to me. KPIX has an excellent reputation for investigative reporting, and San Francisco is a long distance from San Jose. This is much more than a "local burglary" story.

I trust you 100% to do a good job on the article. I do not trust your client, not one bit. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:58, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

If there has been any inappropriate COI editing, it was done before the article was on my watchlist and I am not privy to it, with exception to the one edit I reverted myself. My contact does not know who did that edit and circulated a scathing internal email in response.

I have not mentioned KPIX anywhere in this discussion or elsewhere. I have not seen the source you are referring to. I was referring to the sources that came up in my initial, preliminary research. I suspect however that I will find an appropriate source, so if you have found one already, all the better.

I don't see any particular reason to distrust/ABF Public Storage; in most cases I only ABF after the use of socks or overt lying. If any conduct of that nature has taken place, I am not aware of it.

However, if you insist on ABFing/distrusting Public Storage - well - it is also not necessary to trust them. Their role is fairly marginal. They are allowed 30-60 days to provide corrections, images, etc. for my draft and have the option to cancel the project before the draft is shared online if they are uncomfortable with it. I will also ask them if they have any archived source material that I would not find myself, etc.

I don't see any particular reason to distrust them, so I'm just not sure where that is coming from. On the contrary, hiring someone like me, instead of someone like Wiki-PR, I think should be indicator of trying to do the right thing, as oppose to being a cause for distrust. Unless you distrust all corporations - which is a common (and not entirely unjustified) view as well.

CorporateM (Talk) 16:35, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

I do not distrust all corporations but I think that skepticism is always in order when some individual or company is willing to pay to have a Wikipedia article improved or expanded. Of course, it is a good sign that they hired you rather than those who do paid editing in secret.

I thought you were alluding to the KPIX story when you mentioned "burglaries from the crime beat" since that report is a reference in the article now and discusses burglaries at one of their San Jose locations. I figured that you would be conversant with the current references. As for my "better light" comment, that is my speculation about their motives, not yours. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:56, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

OK, I am mistaken. I see that you must be referring to this CBS source used in the article? It is focused on insurance, not security, issues, which may be part of the cause of confusion and I did not realize it was tied to KPIX. I wrote that paragraph myself, so I clearly support it as a reliable source, and am familiar with the source. They did an actual investigation, rather than just repeating information they were told, which I think makes it especially reliable. We should avoid using local sources to cover topics of only local interest, or to cover individual locations, but I think the article contains plenty of general information not specific to an individual location. I wouldn't be able to say whether a GA version might have some slight trimming or expansion on the topic, depending on what I find in other sources.

I think the stereotype about the type of company that hires me is way, way off-base. Many of my clients searched far and wide for someone to do it ethically, because ethics is a core principle of their corporate culture. There is also a selection bias in that I tend to take clients that have a positive reputation in the source material, because those are the ones that will be content with an NPOV article. I provide a niche service to companies that care more about ethics than results. I've also done a statistical analysis of 75 inquiries over a one-year period and found that almost all article-subjects want to do the right thing, but are merely taken advantage of by paid editing firms, that mis-represent what is ethical and Wiki-compliant. I have a very good track record at persuading article-subjects to abstain, merely by explaining that they can't ethically achieve their intended objective.

In this case, it was more of a circumstance of convenience and I do see from their prior Request Edit that they seem to have a strong, non-NPOV, opinion about the subject though. Anyways, sorry for dragging out this string so long. Cheers! CorporateM (Talk) 19:12, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

I am not trying to stereotype your clients, but my hunch is that it is exceedingly rare that a corporation says to itself, "Wow, that Wikipedia article about us is excessively glowing and misses describing that swamp we polluted back in 1964, and all the donations we made to white supremacist organizations back in the 1950s. Let's hire a paid editor to portray us more accurately in historical context, warts and all." Nope, I do not think so. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:52, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

RfA vote

Hi. By policy I try not to edit user's comments without notifying them, but I changed the bullet before your RfA vote to a numbered list. Hope that's what you intended. Kharkiv07^Talk 21:15, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting my obvious error, Kharkiv07, which I appreciate. Feel free to do so at any time. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

I was going to cheap out and just "thank" the diff, but the affirmation expressed in your AFD comment was appreciated much above average, so thought I'd stop by and say so! Thanks! NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:42, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome, and I appreciate the comment, NewsAndEventsGuy. It is possible that we will disagree in some future debate, though I hope you realize that I consider such things seriously. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:56, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

I love being opposed for logically substantive reasons. Makes me a better editor, so have at it! NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 00:35, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Dalit History

Hey, Jim,
I hope you are well. I thought given your work at the Teahouse, you should be aware of this conversation on AN/I. I went to all of the new editors who were named, gave them a welcome (with links) along with an invitation to the Teahouse. But if you get a lot of inquiries on this subject, this is the cause. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:20, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Liz. I replied at the Teahouse and was commenting at ANI just as you were commenting here. I really appreciate you taking the time to welcome these folks. Well done. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:23, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

I visit the Teahouse often but usually someone has already answered questions that are brought there. You have a great group of regulars. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:46, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

about the question i asked on the teahouse.

hi jimmy boy its dfrr about the question i asked on the teahouse (about Happy Days) this is about editing. if you see the Roger Phillips page you will see that in the realtives section that a lot of it says unknown which is why i asked that question. thank you and happy springDfrr (talk) 08:38, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello Dfrr. The article Roger Phillips is entirely unreferenced, which is not good. Unless references can be found that give significant coverage to the character, the article should be deleted and the topic covered in a list of characters from the show. As for that big list of possible relatives, all the unknown relationships should be removed. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:36, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

hi jimmy boy it is dfrr i added references to Roger Phillips and fixed unknown relationships. although ones i was unsure about were maked with a question mark (which i did when i edited Richie Cunningham which you should view at any time) so are there any websites that could help me answer these questions? thank youDfrr (talk) 08:35, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Dalit History Month Hackathon Follow up

Cullen328 thank you for your encouragement. To give you some background. The Dalit History Month project hosted this event with scholars who were seeing glaring problems with many of the Dalit articles we identified on Wikipedia. If we were not simply omitted, then the articles had misspellings, grammatical mistakes, or used sources that were inaccurate and condescending. This is heartbreaking to us. We are over 200 million people in India alone, and wikipedia in english and in our local languages is one of the only free sources of knowledge we all jointly access to learn about our culture and history as this knowledge is not readily taught or shared as part of our educational training.

You have rightly assessed that we are newbies. We are not ashamed of this. We are proud of this fact for we represent generations of a community that have been prevented from being seen as producers of knowledge and intellectual property in India and throughout South Asia. In fact our ancestors were barred from accessing knowledge shared in Brahmin circles with threats of having our tongues cut or lead poured into our ears for even daring to listen to Sanskrit: the language of scholarship in Hindu India. By joining Wikipedia we are taking back our power as knowledge producers and curators and excited about being able to address the gaps of the Dalit experience.

In this journey we welcome mentors and collaborators. However we must have mentors outside of just the India page as many of these articles have erased Dalit participation and some editors are in fact actively representing Savarna or upper caste interests and are not practicing NPOV. However without the representation of Dalits on wikipedia this would not be challenged with content from verifiable sources.

This is our ongoing task that we will take on. We are not interested in creating rhetoric. Instead we want only to balance and present the facts which relates to this omission of Dalits from wikipedia. This is very critical to being able to jointly create the best Dalit entries on wikipedia, but it can be hard for general editors to be more aware of what are the specific issues of particularly contentious sources as one would have to have knowledge of caste politics and Dalit exclusion of civil society and other public, media, and government spheres in South Asia to assess what is in fact appropriate. Our team does have that expertise and we will work carefully to start addressing this issue and would love help to be the best contributors to this process.

This is an ongoing initiative for our growing group of editors, however for us it is clear that some of the issues coming up around our edits are not our inexperienced choices but instead the vital debate of who can name and decide what is in fact Dalit history. For example, when one of our participants categorized the Indian Constitution as Dalit History. This was significant as the writer of the Indian constitution is B.R. Ambedkar. In analagous categorizations for Black, Asian, and Latino historical achievement in North America, leaders who have accomplished similar tasks are also similarly named. So why then can we not acknowledge the origin of the constitution as also part of this significant Dalit contribution to Indian history? The fact that this is debated is the problem. The fact that the participant who added this edit learned the constitution was written by a Dalit from a participant in the workshop and not from the entry itself is also the problem.

We are afraid that what is passing for NPOV in wikipeida is in fact more erasure of Dalits from the historical cannon. The commitment to create a truly NPOV in countries like India where significant systemic caste oppression does not allow for a balanced perspective of our histories is we believe one immediate process that we must work together to rectify. We are happy to help address this and we welcome collaboration, and mentorship, but do not apologize from our self-determined process as Dalit Women and our allies to be able to engage in a global community of wisdom. We too have a rich intellectual tradition and we will continue to become a more engaged community within Wikipedia. We appreciate your thoughfulness and thank you so much for your support! I will look to see what we can do on that list but would also like to work closely with you on the category questions this process has brought up. What would you recommend as a good next step? Dalithistorymonth (talk) 12:18, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Dalithistorymonth. I do not have time to respond at length right now, because I need to go to work. I support the general thrust of what you hope to accomplish, but there is a strong undertone of wanting to "right great wrongs" in your comments that will be opposed by many editors. This is not the purpose of Wikipedia. Specifically regarding the Indian constitution, I fail to see how the categorization you mentioned is appropriate. No experienced editor here wants to "erase" anything from history, but rather to summarize what the best sources say. Coming to Wikipedia making blanket accusations is not a good way to start. Writing well-referenced articles is a far better way, and writing biographies of historical figures is one of the best ways to learn Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 14:56, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Shaygan Kheradpir

I suspect COI and socking, though if I'm wrong I'm biting the newbies. Would be great if you gave it a second pair of eyes. I do have a disclosed COI; primarily my job is to make sure nothing crazy/erroneous pops up regarding his controversial departure from Juniper. CorporateM (Talk) 01:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I have looked at that article before, probably because I noticed you mention it. I do not claim to be a good sockpuppet detective. Here, I see a generalist editor of long standing, though they have ramped up their level of participation in recent months. I also see what I consider to be an SPA focused on Kheradpir. Do you suspect they are the same person? Neither is a newbie, so do not worry too much about biting, if criticism of editing is justified.

The article has a laudatory tone, I guess, but perhaps that is at least partially justified by the facts of his career and what the sources say about them.

Now, I will look at the specific stuff about Juniper. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I see the initial coverage of his sudden departure (firing?) from the company, in the two reliable sources are now in the article. Then, I saw some slightly speculative but perhaps plausible coverage of the "behind the scenes" reasons for his departure a couple of months later, in somewhat less reliable sources. None of that is now in the article, or in the Juniper article. So, I will watch these articles, to help ensure that gossip and speculation don't creep in. Best regards, CorporateM. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:08, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I did feel a positive article was justified based on the sources, but for example here it was added that he observed "the need to orient IT programs around the consumerization of technology, in which people, not businesses, drive technology development." The sources are several press articles where he is quoted.

You can see the discussion about socks here. Several socks have already been blocked in the past, and a new round of socks from the same user has just been blocked again. The editor is a known repeat socker. CorporateM (Talk) 04:05, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

There is a big difference between reasonable suspicion and convincing proof, CorporateM. Yeah, it seems unlikely that a good faith generalist editor would make the type of edit in the diff you provided. That's way too deep in the weeds. I already observed that this appears to be an SPA regarding Kheradpir. The connection to Monstermike 99 is unproven. The bottom line, then, is the state of the Kheradpir BLP. If some new development like a lawsuit or a "tell all book" crops up, all hell could break loose. Feel free to alert me at any time. I get emails when people post to my talk page. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:34, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I am unfamiliar with SPIs and never understood how compelling evidence is suppose to obtained, when the only tools we have available to us are diffs, but perhaps I am just not knowledgeable in it. I don't know for sure if they are both socks from the same person, but it is extremely likely they both have a COI. Just as one example, what non-conflicted editor would remove the word "conduct" regarding why he was "fired", leaving only the word "leadership" as was done here. It's just one small word change, but I just can't imagine anyone removing the main premise of why he was "fired" from the page, leaving only that he was fired for his "leadership" in a customer situation. What possible justification could there be for that edit besides COI?

Anyways, it would be great to get a second opinion here if you have time, which is relevant to the laudatory tone issue. CorporateM (Talk) 16:30, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

My Thanks

Thank you very much for stepping in on my biog. I was indeed a little traumatised following someone messing with the article. I have been through a lot in some trouble spots. One editor did not realise he was using citations from a private archive web and not the UK Daily Telegraph whom had removed the articles on line. Appreciated. Strathisla1 (talk) 11:27, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome, Strathisla1. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:01, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

a apology

for you

hi Jim this is dfrr i am sorry for calling you jimmy boy which i will never ever call you for as long as i am on this planet and i will be adressing you by Jim whenever i send you a message and i am sorry for also being creppy. after all i only wish you peace and happiness for as long as you and your family live:-) anyways no hard feelings and have a great day:-) Dfrr (talk) 21:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Apology accepted, Dfrr. Thanks. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:01, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Jim for that message that makes me feel better. in fact Just like Mr. Spock (Leonard Nimoy) always said in Star Trek (1966-1969) Live Long and prosper this goes to your family and all your friends. also my other favorite shows sows are The Wild Wild West, All in the Family and its spin-offs Maude Good Times The Jeffersons and Archie Bunker's Places. The Golden Girls and its Spin-offs Empty Nest & Nurses. Remington Steele, Bonanza The Danny Thomas Show The Andy Griffith Show and its spin-offs Gomer Pyle U.S.M.C & Mayberry R.F.D. Three's Company. What's Happening, M*A*S*H*, Cheers, Dragnet, Gunsmoke The Carol Burnett Show and its spin-off Mama's Family. Perfect Strangers and its Spin-off Family Matters (Steve Urkel is funny) the Dukes of Hazzard Full House Step By Step Hangin with mr cooper,boy meet s world and any other tv shows i my have forgotten in fact television today is just weird i do not like tv was way much better back in the day today tv sucks. anyways thank you and have a great day:-)Dfrr (talk) 23:15, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Cullen328. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

--doncram 15:08, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, doncram. I will think about the most productive way to comment. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:49, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Oldest people

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Oldest people. Legobot (talk) 00:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Fringe Source Really?!

The International Journal of Astrobiology is a fringe source?

NOT ACCORDING TO WIKIPEDIA, SO PERHAPS IT'S JUST YOUR PERSONAL OPINION?

I suppose we should then delete the Wikipedia entry that states The International Journal of Astrobiology, or IJA, is a peer-reviewed scientific journal established in 2002 and published by Cambridge University Press based upon your selective editing?

What is your issue with an article from a peer reviewed journal? Can I delete all the entries in Wikipedia that reference peer reviewed scientific articles then? If not, why not?

Determining the reliability of a source involves evaluating many factors, including the publication/publisher as well as the author. Sadly, Frank J. Tipler advocates crank, pseudoscientific notions, as the references in his Wikipedia biography make clear. That is why Tipler's writings on such matters are fringe. He is by no means in the mainstream of physics or cosmology. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:45, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

New Book published in Belize: can this be quoted as a source?

Three professors at the University of Belize just completed an account of the history of the Catholic church in Belize from the time of Columbus to 2014. I've proposed to try to use parts of it to increase the wiki-presence of the Belizean Catholic Church. In their Bibliography these authors note 143 books and articles, 96 bits from the Midwest Jesuit archives (MJA) which are in St. Louis, 14 bits from the Belize national archives (BARS), and 29 bits from the Catholic church archives in Belize. I am in Kansas City and out of reach of any of these resources to identify exact pages on material; and it's difficult to decipher some of the sources on microfiche on the web. I was hoping that their book would serve as a reliable source, given that the information is simply a factual account of the lives of people, without spreading glory or blame. Some of the material comes from a collection of catalogues of the Mid-West Jesuits (who had charge of the Belize mission) saying who was assigned where when, and the authors combined numerous sources to trace their actions. My question is, must I take this all apart now and trace all the bits and pieces or can this book be referred to as an historical source if I quote pages for each of my statements? The book was carefully produced under the auspices of the Diocese of Belize but with no pressure from the Bishops. This new book may be more accurate than the authors quoted, since our three authors checked several historical studies for each period of history they were writing about, and tried to arrive at the most likely facts where narratives diverged somewhat. This is the reality of life in a small country like Belize, and I'd be glad to have others correct details of my articles on Belize, if they can. So, should I go ahead and in the footnotes direct people to pages in this new book (launched March 24, 2015) or would I have to locate every fact in the sources from which the authors worked?Jzsj (talk) 21:24, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello Jzsj. Relying on the accuracy of your description of the book, it is my opinion that this book is an excellent source, and likely the best source available, for the history of Roman Catholicism in Belize. The fact that it is co-authored by three university professors at a major university is a very good sign, as that it is a contemporary work. You have accurately described the process that academics go through when writing a book about a historical topic, and folks like that are far more qualified to do that work than random, anonymous Wikipedia editors. Our job here is to summarize the work of such scholars, rather than replicate it. Now, hypothetically, if one or more reviews of the book were to appear in historical journals or similar sources criticizing the reliability of the book, that might give me pause. And I would be careful about relying on this book alone in describing any (hypothetical) dispute between Catholicism and, say Evangelical Protestantism. In such a case, sources from both sides of the dispute are preferred. In conclusion, my preliminary judgment is that this book is likely to be a reliable source for many things, especially including biographies of bishops serving in Belize. Thank you for volunteering to help improve Wikipedia, and if I can be of assistance in the future, do not hesitate to ask. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:06, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Multiple source footnotes

Hi Jim,

I asked a question in the teahouse about the preference for single or multiple footnotes when a sentence or paragraph has more than one source. You replied that multiple footnotes are preferred. That's fine and is the way I have been formatting the article. Just wanted to make sure I'm on the correct path as this my first article. Thanks for your help.--LeeLeeVirginia (talk) 15:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Invitation

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Article re-submission and referencing

Hi Cullen,

So I have requested for the article i previously posted to be deleted. I have made amendment to the article and now have the final version. I would like to post that one now. Can you help? Also regarding the reference, what if there's a few statement that come from the same source? What do I do?

HafizAzizi91 (talk) 09:48, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Wm A Stewart edit - need more info as to how to prove

Hi Jim, Thanks for your response to my question. Am very new to this world of editing Wikipedia but want to try to get Dad's info right online. I have no idea where his birth certificate would be. At this point, just have Funeral Director's Proof of Death which shows correct DOB. All his government records (CRA, CPP, OAS) and pension records and bank records, etc etc would have shown his correct DOB but I don't think want to be releasing those. Am trying to find any other places where correct date was noted. What kind of "source" does Wikipedia recognize? My mother is also now deceased but my three sisters could confirm!  :) Any guidance much appreciated. ````

Hello Slingerg. A minor item first: You sign talk page posts with four tildes, and a tilde looks like this: ~

Because of his government positions, your father is indisputably notable in Wikipedia terms, and eligible for a biography which can be expanded and improved over weeks, months and years to come.

As for the immediate substantive issue of his birth date, we are looking for published, independent, secondary sources. All the sources you mention above are unpublished primary sources, and are not acceptable here on Wikipedia. The current version of the article about your father relies far too much on sources we consider of lower quality. Upgrading the sources should be a long term goal of yours.

High quality sources for a biography of a politician like your father include the current link to his profile on the Ontario Parliament website. Other sources might be newspaper articles from his home town or from Ottawa. Published obituaries often include date of birth. Books published by university presses or by reputable mainstream publishers are strong sources. If his papers are held in a university archive, they often publish a biographical sketch. Perhaps the Progressive Conservative Party has published biographical information about your father. I am just brainstorming here, and you may be aware of other possibilities.

If you are so motivated, you could write a biographical article about your father, citing the primary sources, and submit it to a local historical journal. Once published, that article could be a source for his date of birth and other significant biographical details. Editorial review by the people running such a journal would "transform" sources unacceptable for direct use on Wikipedia into an acceptable secondary source.

I hope this clarifies things, but if you have further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I wish you well. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance. Very helpful. Guess I'm wondering what was source of the incorrect date shown on Wikipedia - any way to find that out? Anyway, I see that I have a project ahead of me - will be great to do. Thanks! Slingerg (talk) 14:24, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Photos

I removed the photos on the Footjob page because they were inappropriate and offensive. They should not be on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a family friendly site, and those photos were completely disgusting and unrefined.

ElliotNettles (talk) 07:41, 18 April 2015 (UTC)ElliotNettles

ElliotNettles, please be aware that Wikipedia is not censored, and many of our articles about human sexuality have images that some people may find offensive. Please discuss your concerns on the article's talk page. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:03, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:MyWikiBiz

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:MyWikiBiz. Legobot (talk) 00:00, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

I am leaving

Hello Jim dfrr here I am leaveing Wikipedia unless I decide to come back because I am about to get blocked and I am also giving you this final message. farewell my friend and Live long and prosperDfrr (talk) 06:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC)(Talk to me:-))

Hello Dfrr. If editing Wikipedia is frustrating to you, then you can take a break on your own any time, and come back when you are ready. Please do not engage in any conduct that will get you blocked. This is only just a hobby, though the greatest hobby of the earliest 21st century, in my opinion. Play by the rules, and work your way up slowly. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:31, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

hello

hello my name is CrawfordLou.and I am a new user:-)CrawfordLou (talk) 07:10, 22 April 2015 (UTC)(Lets Discuss It Man)

Hello, CrawfordLou I will happily believe that you are a productive editor if you conduct yourself as a productive editor, based on your edit history. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:43, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Dinnerbone

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Dinnerbone. Legobot (talk) 00:01, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Mountain Climbers

Cute response. on SV's page. Yeah, I picked mountain climbers intentionally because they are not very ideological, but knitters would have worked just as well. Anyway main reason I am posting here: Even though I did see your comment, I wanted to inform you that the {{u|David Tornheim}} template didn't notify me, because it must be used in combination with the ~~~~, which did not occur on your revised edit. Not sure if you knew about that requirement on some of those notification templates. It is mentioned in red here. David Tornheim (talk) 03:29, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

You are clearly not familiar with the contending ideologies of the various schools of mountaineering and rock climbing, but that is OK. Few people are. My wife is a dedicated knitter, so tread carefully. As for my defective ping, David Tornheim, I guess that I am fortunate that you noticed my comment. Maybe the programmer types will fix that some day. Be well. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

It's very possible that I'm misremembering something I read, but didn't Kim Stanley Robinson write something about the "contending ideologies" of mountaineering and rock climbing? Viriditas (talk) 05:03, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

That may well be true, Viriditas, but in order to know, I would have to read his work, and oh-my-gosh, that would eat into my Wikipedia editing time, wouldn't it? When I started roaming the High Sierra as a young man, I was most influenced by Royal Robbins and Yvon Chouinard in the realm of the ethics of technical rock climbing, and by Norman Clyde in general Alpine mountaineering, California style. I could mention many other names of climbers whose biographies I have written and improved. Chuck Pratt definitely comes to mind, and I will never forget two weeks in the Minaret Range with Jules Eichorn in the late 1970s. In recent years, Glen Dawson's daughter has let me know that he appreciates the biography of him that I wrote. Since Glen is 102 and was doing major climbs around the time my father was born in 1931, I forgive him for not learning Wiki markup. Through my efforts, climbers like Tom Frost and Pat Ament have agreed to donate historic climbing photos to Wikimedia Commons. I take it all very seriously. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:28, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for reflecting

Thank you for reflecting the Gerechtigkeitsspirale!

Did you know ... that a church's 1510 spiral of justice declares: "Justice suffered in great need. Truth is slain dead. Faith has lost the battle"?

The poem ends with "Praise the right thing".

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda Arendt. It is a nice article about a very beautiful carving. It is hard to believe that it is over 500 years old. Well done! Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:42, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Hard to believe, with the lines still true. Did you know that a friend of mine was almost banned because he helped me to restore an infobox? That I am the most restricted person in the field? That another friend left after his protecting an article (in an edit war) was called "abusing admin poswer"? Praise the right thing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I think you are an outstanding editor, Gerda. As for infoboxes, I simply do not care all that much, one way or the other. I simply do not understand why so many editors are motivated to argue endlessly about infoboxes, and I have tried to understand. Without success. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:33, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I feel exactly the same, and said so, but I can't leave the battleground on which I am the nurse, a battle not for infoboxes but for what is right. It is correct to say someone abused admin tools who protected an article in a war, but I feel it is not right to say so if you are one of the fighters. It was not right that an arbitrator commented the edit about which I inquired the arb candidates: "That he deliberately parachutes into infobox editing disputes in such contentious areas: [6] (March 2013) concerns me deeply." (in his vote for a ban). It concerns me deeply that he obviously didn't look, nor did any of the colleagues. It was the only diff given in the case, - no wonder, there was no "disruption" in all of 2013. My life would be more comfortable if I also stayed away, but it would not be right ;) (Btw, did you know that the arbitrators had originally been called to look at reverts?) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:33, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I am completely convinced that every atom of energy spent on arguing about infoboxes, pro and con, is completely and utterly wasted. Accordingly, I will be studious in avoiding those pointless battles. If some admin abused their power somewhere in the endless infoboxes wars, I do not care too much, because it is all pointless foolishness and every single infobox warrior should be sanctioned, in my book. There is no right or wrong in this foolishness. I love real nurses, but no real blood is shed in this obsessive-compulsive pointless craziness. So "nursing" the infobox war knuckleheads is a waste of time, in my opinion. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:43, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I must have a language problem. I am not nursing the war, I am nursing the victims and will not leave them alone (some listed in the infobox on top of my talk, victims on both sides). I have not spent time in "pros", - if you followed the link you will have read that I don't care if Beethoven has an infobox or not). When I see good faith edits reverted, I am not silent, and that is happening, too often. If an admin is leaving (because of the nonsense) who has served the project well for ten years, I am not silent. Thanks for listening, I will not take more of your time but added the spiral to my memories which begin with "singing in defiance" ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Dessert, with thanks for your patience: one of the "battles" which all participants seem to have enjoyed, - it's short and amusing, promised ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:15, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Mandatory Palestine vs. Palestine

Hi Cullen328,

Thanks for the advice. I noted in the Teahouse that I already posted on the article's talk page (it is the first and only comment to appear). Should I revert to the original text in the article to avoid a sanction or just sit patiently and await whatever my fate is? Zozoulia (talk) 07:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I suggest that you leave well enough alone, Zozoulia. It is a low visibility article, and I note that the other editor in question has only made two edits in 2015. You did the right thing by posting your reasoning on the article's talk page. If anyone gives you a hard time, please let me know. Take care. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Will do. Zozoulia (talk) 08:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion

Hi,

This is a notification to let you know that there is a requested move discussion ongoing at Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/April_2015_move_request#Requested_move. You are receiving this notification because you have previously participated in some capacity in naming discussions related to the article in question.

Thanks. And have a nice day. NickCT (talk) 18:32, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Teahouse stuff

Hi, Jim,
I think of you as the Teahouse guy although you may not prefer that as an identity! But I'm running into one issue and I don't know where to mention it so I'm bringing it to you. I try to answer 5-10 questions at the Teahouse every week and often I have something to add to a question that already has answers. I have to say in every single case when I've gone to leave a TH Talkback message on the questioner' talk page, there is not already one present. Despite the very convenient pop-up reminder, many editors helping out at the Teahouse don't let the new editors know they should return and find an answer. I don't understand this, it just takes a few seconds to do. But since it is not common to ping the editors who ask questions, it's really essential to provide a direct link as sometimes there are so many new questions, it can be difficult to find one's question further down on the page. I would think the pop-up would work but apparently it isn't for all hosts. Any ideas for how it can be more widely adopted? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:56, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello Liz. I think of you as the helpful, levelheaded editor, and so you can think of me however you wish. I used to leave the Teahouse talkback template a few years back but as pinging became more common, I ping instead. In general, I template talk pages rarely.

I do most of my Teahouse work from a smart phone, and find it inconvenient to find the template, cut and paste the section title, and so on. I hate to be lazy but my Wikipedia time is limited, and pinging is so quick.

As for the pop-up reminder, I do not see that when I edit, so maybe I have that disabled. I think all hosts should either ping or template. If you start a conversation on the Teahouse talk page, I will back you up, and we can ping (or template) the most active recent hosts. I will be away for a few hours. Thanks for noticing this issue. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:50, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, there was a time in 2014 when I copied a lot of scripts from other editors' .js pages and so in my menu bar at the top of the page, there is a drop down menu that allows you to post a THinvite, a special THAfC message or a THTalkback. You select it and it is posted. It's right next to the WikiLove option.

I never realized that it was more common to ping as I don't see many hosts using editor's names in their response. I guess that is just as fine as a Talkback which I'll continue to leave because, heck, it's always nice to get polite messages on ones talk page. ;-)

By the way, is there some special status to be a host, some commitment that is given? Or is everyone who helps out considered to be a host? I've always wondered since I moved from being the question asker to the question answerer. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:13, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Just to chime in here, I always ping too, and I usually only leave a talkback message if it's a time-sensitive matter. That being said, if a host isn't pinging and doesn't leave a talkback message, I don't think it would be a bad idea to suggest that to them. I'd also support some sort of reminder to hosts to ping/talkback, if you recognize that as a problem.

And to answer your question (now that I'm here - sorry Jim!), anyone who is experienced can add themselves as a host. Nothing special, other than being identified as someone who is here to help. There's no edit count requirement or anything, but I'd imagine that a typical host should have at least a few months' experience and a few hundred editors (in addition to being kind, patient, etc.). So I'd certainly recommend adding yourself as a host, if you're interested. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 20:24, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Your keyboard to my brain...

	Great Answer Badge
	Awarded to those who have given a great answer on the Teahouse Question Forum. A good answer is one that fits in with the Teahouse expectations of proper conduct: polite, patient, simple, relies on explanations not links, and leaves a talkback notification. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
Thanks for your detailed answers today, Jim. I'm still learning from your explanations. —Anne Delong (talk) 13:32, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate that, Anne Delong. You are very kind. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:00, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject TAFI

	Hello, Cullen328. You're invited to join WikiProject Today's articles for improvement. Feel free to nominate an article for improvement at the project's Nominated articles page. Also feel free to contribute to !voting for new weekly selections at the project's talk page. If interested in joining, please add your name to the list of members. North America1000 09:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)