User talk:Chess2050

External links

Hi Chess2050, thanks for your recent edits to some chess articles. You might be interested in Wikipedia:WikiProject Chess. If you want to suggest sources for article editors to use, it's usually better to add them to an article's talk page where editors are more likely to find and discuss them. Some people are fussy about external links and may be suspicious if your only edits are adding external links. Suggesting sources is great, but adding information is helpful too! Don't be afraid to be bold, and feel free to let me know if you need help with anything. Wug·a·po·des​ 07:24, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Conflict of interest?

Hello and thank you for your edits. I'm sorry to bother you, and I hate to ask, but do you have a conflict of interest regarding the site http://www.chesshistory.com?

I am sadly not a chess person, but I watch the article Stefan Zweig and I saw your edit adding that site with information about, of course, Schachnovelle. Now, without really understanding the ins and outs, I can see that this is potentially very interesting stuff, giving the technical background to Zweig's writing in that work, so I have no objection to it per se. But looking at your edit history I see many edits which add this same site to articles. Obviously you might just be doing this because you know and love chesshistory.com, you are unconnected with it, and you think it's a great resource and enhances the articles to have it linked. But if you are connected with the site it is a whole different situation, since it calls into question your motivation in adding it in so many articles – it then becomes a spectrum with entirely benign motivation at one end and something less acceptable at the other. I am certainly not a COI expert and I might be calling this wrong, (apologies in advance if this is the case) but I do feel mildly concerned and I wonder if you should perhaps read the COI link carefully, and if in doubt seek expert help on how best to proceed ... I am sure that the latter is readily available, but if you can't find it, please yell and I will try to find something for you. I hope this helps, best wishes, DBaK (talk) 10:34, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks for your comments. As a chess historian and author, I wish to help improve Wikipedia's chess articles by adding a range of corrections, additions and links. I have begun mainly with links to articles at chesshistory.com simply because that is widely recognized as the world's leading and most respected website on chess history. (Chess2050 (talk) 15:06, 15 November 2019 (UTC))

Brilliant – thank you for the nice and civilized reply. Happy editing, and thanks again for the Zweig bit! Cheers DBaK (talk) 15:46, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, almost all of your contributions have been to add references to Mr. Winter's website, and so it is reasonable to ask if you are Mr. Winter or are otherwise closely connected to the website. In many cases, it is frowned upon to add references to one's own work to Wikipedia. I thought of that when I noticed what you were doing.

What distinguishes this from ordinary COI (Conflict of Interest) situations is that Mr. Winter's website is universally regarded as a reliable source for Wikipedia articles (a general discussion of reliable sources can be found starting at this link: WP:RS). I and, very likely, all the other editors of chess-related articles would not hesitate to cite an article by Winter, and I have certainly seen many such citations. One can verify this by posting a question about it to WT:CHESS, the talk page for WikiProject Chess. In addition, I have already added citations to links you have provided, in two articles (Henry Bird (chess player), Fred Yates (chess player)).

Hypothetically, if an editor thought that you were violating the rules laid down in WP:COI and that you should stop doing it, they would first complain to you here in your talk page, and then, if they were unsatisfied with the results, perhaps post a notice at the Wikipedia Conflict of Interest Noticeboard (WP:COIN). In the worst case, some administrator might apply some "administrative remedy", which might mean, for example, undoing your previous edits, and/or blocking your account from being used. (I mention these remedies because I have seen them applied in other cases.)

In saying all these things, I'm writing for an audience that potentially includes any Wikipedia editor or administrator. Every page, including this Talk page, is visible to everybody, and in all likelihood, many interested editors, besides myself, and some administrators have already noticed your work and will be watching this page. I am not experienced enough in these matters to know what "should" happen in this case, or even whether I should be scolding you (if you are Mr. Winter or connected to him) or thanking you. Above, I have stated my highly positive opinion of the quality and relevance of Mr. Winter's chess-related research. Bruce leverett (talk) 03:05, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your comments. I am not Edward Winter, but, like you, I have a "highly positive opinion of the quality and relevance of Mr. Winter's chess-related research". A while ago, I noted that that research at the chesshistory.com website has been severely under-represented on Wikipedia (perhaps precisely because of the sheer mass of high-quality, fully documented material that he presents), and I have been doing my best to redress that by adding due recognition on specific topics. The acid test, of course, is whether my individual edits are apposite, and I feel confident that anybody who looks at the detail of the links that I have added will be satisfied that they are indeed worthwhile. To take just my most recent edit as an example: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Checkmate_(The_Prisoner). Adding a reference to Mr. Winter's feature article on that specific episode of "The Prisoner" seems to me important and overdue, as it contains a great amount of factual information, all directly relevant and all with exact sources. Many thanks again for your remarks.Chess2050 (talk) 06:15, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello again Chess2050 and indeed Bruce leverett! I'm very sorry about the gap in comms while Real Life intervened. It has a horrible tendency to do that sometimes. I just wanted to say that everyone's been very civilized here (as befits chess players, I assume? I am a trumpet player so would know nothing of civilization!) and I think that we have pretty much talked this thing out and we are done here. Bruce and I have both wondered about Chess2050's edits using Winter cites, while agreeing that they are useful. Indeed, as I said up there ^ somewhere I personally was only attracted here because of the Zweig/Schachnovelle edit – I know so little of chess that you would laugh at me, or perhaps pityingly try to explain to me a little bit about the horsies and those ecclesiastical types, or whatever. (I do keep meaning to learn to play a little more properly but please do not hold your breath for updates. Your competitive rankings are safe from me.)

So we agreed that these edits are a substantial gain for the encyclopaedia. We have both politely wondered if Chess2050 was Winter, and we have been politely told that they are not. At this point, in accordance with Standing Orders, we Assume Good Faith because that is what we do, and it is what makes the world go round. I see no need for any further discussion or challenge, just a need to say thank you to Chess2050 and Bruce for being polite and sensible about this. I have been here many many years and have seen virtual blood on the virtual walls over far less. So, well done us, if you like! (Ahem: smugness is never attractive – sorry!)

And, oh yes, the one about The Prisoner is great isn't it? Thank you.

I am very aware what thin ice this is for us all here. I think that many of us tend to have a subject or two that we love and some resources that we know are useful and that we want to share. For example if I were tomorrow to discover a great new-to-me book on the piccolo trumpet – let's say it's by Crispian Steele-Perkins – or a wonderful new work on Stefan Zweig by, say, Oliver Matuschek, then it is quite likely that I would be all over the project quoting one or the other or both. And sooner or later someone would say, hang on, wait, are you actually this author or that? Now in fact I am neither Crispian nor Oliver – I could wish! – but I can see very easily how I could look to some as if I had a COI and people might feel the need to check with me – politely I hope! – that all was kosher and tickety-boo. It is.

The only suggestion that I could make here, which I hope might help, is that Chess2050 might consider putting something on their User page, or virtually pinned to the top of this page, or even better at both places, explaining, as they did above, that they are not Winter and what they are doing here. Not name, address, blood group, favourite colour – maybe just useful generalizations about your role here and the Winter bit in particular. I think that could help to avoid further discussions of this sort, especially as this Talk page will inevitably fill up with other stuff. Sooner or later another editor is more or less bound to pop along here to mention the same thing and if they find that you have proactively addressed it then they might just turn around and go away happy, having been headed off at the pass somewhat. If you've already explained it then for the other editor to push further would really not be AGF and they would need good justification for what might look like hostility otherwise. This, however, is purely advisory based on nothing more than my having been around here a while and wishing to help. I have no status or influence here and my suggestions are eminently ignorable, so please do as you wish. I am in no position to ask or require you to do anything: they are your pages. With apologies for the long waffle I am now going to stfu as I understand it is charmingly put, and wish you both, and all, happy editing. Cheers DBaK (talk) 12:09, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Raymond Keene, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page David Howell (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

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 Done Fixed it, since I was here, saw it, and was curious! DBaK (talk) 12:21, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for that. Chess2050 (talk) 06:36, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 6

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Ken Whyld, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Edward Winter (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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Raymond Keene

Please stop adding unreferenced or poorly referenced biographical content, especially if controversial, to articles or any other Wikipedia page, as you did at Raymond Keene. Content of this nature could be regarded as defamatory and is in violation of Wikipedia policy. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. MrMajors (talk) 14:08, 19 January 2020 (UTC) A revision has now been made which confines itself to quoting direct, neutrally and without comment, claims made by Raymond Keene himself. Exact sources are given, and they are all from websites which either belong to Raymond Keene or in which he is personally involved.Chess2050 (talk) 08:30, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Chess2050, I also have to ask you to stop violating WP:BLP in the Raymond Keene article. Since you have been warned, if you do it again I will report the situation to the administrators and let them sort it out. Quale (talk) 19:31, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. The "Titles claimed" section which you removed gave, without any editorial comment, Raymond Keene's own words. It was fully referenced with, exclusively, links to websites favorable to him, including his own webpage. Raymond Keene has made the same claims about those titles on other websites too, which indicates that he himself regards them as significant to his life and career.Chess2050 (talk) 06:14, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

It still violates multiple Wikipedia policies. I actually suspect that you are smart enough that you realize this, but you hope to include as much negative material about Keene as possible in the article regardless of Wikipedia policy. I think that you should voluntarily stay away from the Keene page as I question your ability to maintain WP:NPOV and follow WP:BLP on that biography, but that is your decision.

I won't attempt an exhaustive list of all the problems with your edits to Raymond Keene, but we can start with the section title "Titles claimed". Using "claimed" in this way is prohibited by WP:CLAIM, a key part of WP:NPOV. In addition, WP:PRIMARY is an important part of WP:RS which regulates which sources can be used in Wikipedia, and it discourages or prohibits using primary resources (in this case the writings of the subject) to make claims of titles or qualifications. In this case you aren't even attempting to support a claim that Keene is entitled to these claims, but you can't use unstated implication to try to lead the reader to a conclusion not in the sources as this is strictly prohibited by WP:NOR. And WP:BLP means enforcement of NPOV and NOR must be especially strict. You've made it clear that you think Keene makes undeserved claims of qualifications and titles, but you can't put that in the article without a WP:RS that says exactly that. Even if there are such sources the material might be left out of the article due to WP:UNDUE weight considerations, but that can be considered if and when the other hurdles are overcome. Quale (talk) 07:30, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

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Andrew Soltis

Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living (or recently deceased) persons, as you did to Andrew Soltis. We have already warned you about this when writing about other people. Please do not add contentious content which is only backed up by a personal web page—hardly a reliable source. I have reverted your changes. If you introduce contentious content about Mr. Soltis again, I will report you. Samboy (talk) 07:01, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

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