User talk:Cecropia/Archive 21

January-March 2007

Amy Winfrey

You started this article, which was proposed for speedy deletion under CSD A7 (non notable). As you're an established editor, I've changed it to Prod to give time to improve the article, if possible, as it doesn't assert any particular notability at the moment. Tyrenius 11:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brooklyn trolleys

I noticed from tagging NYC Subway talk pages that you seem to know a lot about its history. I was wondering if you might also have knowledge of the Brooklyn trolleys? I have been writing a number of articles on them (see List of streetcar lines in Brooklyn), and I am particularly looking for details of the numbering system that was originally used on maps and later on PCCs. --NE2 10:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The detailed information on the talk page is from Joe's BAHN layout, and I feel it's too detailed for the main list (but it can be incorporated into the individual articles). I've hit a gold mine with the Brooklyn Daily Eagle being online up to 1902... see Hudson Avenue Line and St. Johns Place Line for examples of what I've been able to do. As for trackage rights, those were basically forced by the franchises - if the companies couldn't come to an agreement, it was treated like eminent domain, and the courts assigned damages to be paid.

I've also found some interesting short-lived rural lines. You probably know about the Kings County Central Railroad (no article yet), but are you aware that its path along the old Clove Road was also used at various times by the Holy Cross Cemetery Line (haven't been able to find full details yet) and the Brooklyn and Canarsie Railroad? There was also a line on this map, starting out from Coney Island like the Culver Line, but turning off onto Kings Highway to Flatlands and then heading up Flatbush Avenue; I haven't found out what it was (or if it actually existed) yet. (That map shows the Brooklyn and Canarsie, by the way.) --NE2 06:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I figured out what that line was - it was a never-completed Brooklyn, Flatbush and Coney Island Railroad (later reincorporated and built as the Brighton Beach Line). In 1878, this company tried to get an injunction against the Culver Line to keep it from tearing up the roadbed and building a new one on Gravesend Avenue. Here are a few pieces of the 1878 article that make this clear: [1][2] Most of the earlier matches for the company are foreclosure notices, but here's an act describing it: [3][4][5] --NE2 07:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, you're right about that. I had noticed the railroad/railway difference but had assumed incorrectly that one was a reorganization of the other. --NE2 07:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Annoyingly, I've noticed a lot of errors of that sort in the Eagle, from the bizarre ("Long Long Island Railroad") to truncated common names ("Coney Island Railroad" for Coney Island and Brooklyn Railroad) to railroad/railway confusion. But in general it's very good for openings, leases, and most other matters. --NE2 08:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Novels newsletter : Issue IX - February 2007

The February 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 16:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Tree or moth?

As per User:Radiant!/Classification of admins, we need to know urgently whether you are a Cecropia tree or a Cecropia moth. Guettarda 18:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

email address?

I notice you don't have an active email address (email this user doesn't work). If you're still around, please give me a buzz (your talk, my talk, or email, I don't care). -- Rick Block (talk) 05:12, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still around, though haphazardly. Feel free to post whatever here. Cheers! -- Cecropia 22:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue X - March 2007

The March 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 19:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brooklyn trolleys again

Apologies for bothering you again... do you know anything about the Culver, Sea Beach, and West End elevated operations between 1907 and 1920? There's currently a gap in the history on Rapid transit operations of the BRT and BMT. According to the text I copied onto Talk:Rapid transit operations of the BRT and BMT, the West End elevated trains were operated by the Nassau Electric south of 36th Street, while by then the Sea Beach had been merged into the NYCR, and the NYCR operated via trackage rights over the Nassau Electric (West End) between Bath Junction and 36th Street. I'm less sure about the Culver, and the Sea Beach between 1907 and 1912; do you know if the Culver operation was similarly split between the Brooklyn Union Elevated Railroad/NYCR and South Brooklyn Railway (and whether the South Brooklyn operated trolleys too for their portion of the routes), and the same with the Sea Beach (did the Sea Beach operate the elevated cars up to 36th Street?). Thank you for any assistance. --NE2 00:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what I've found; see the 1908 McGraw Electric Railway Manual. Page 206 shows that the Brooklyn Heights lease of the Nassau Electric was canceled on June 30, 1904, "coincident with a decision of the courts compelling the issuance of transfers from one leased line to another, and the road is now operated separately." The New York Times backs this up. As of March 1, 1907, the elevated leases (Brooklyn Union Elevated Railroad, Sea Beach Railway, South Brooklyn Railway, Canarsie Railroad) to the Brooklyn Heights were canceled (page 204). The Canarsie was leased to the Brooklyn Union Elevated, but the Sea Beach and South Brooklyn operated independently (pages 208 and 209). Ca. 1913, when the Sea Beach was being rebuilt, the Nassau Electric was still operated independently; see the text on Talk:Rapid transit operations of the BRT and BMT. --NE2 23:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So what changed between the pre-1904 operations of the West End elevated trains by the Brooklyn Heights and the post-1904 operations where the Nassau Electric technically operated them south of 36th Street? --NE2 23:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I'm thinking more about the internal workings; sorry if you don't know about them. When the Public Service Commission says that the West End trains were operated by the Nassau Electric south of 36th Street, what does that mean, and how was it different from the Sea Beach operations via trackage rights? --NE2 20:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So does that mean that the workers on those trains were technically employed by both companies? --NE2 21:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]