User talk:Bigmoe797

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Welcome!

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Bigmoe797, you are invited to the Teahouse!

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Stats tables

Your work is appreciate, keep it up. I'd suggest coloring league leaders and bolding career highs. Super Bowls/championships and MVPs need not be specified in stats tables. Lizard (talk) 01:21, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

When you get into the older players, keep in mind many of them played multiple positions. Sammy Baugh is known mostly as a passer, but he's considered one of the greatest 3-way players of all time. Check out his punting average and defensive interceptions. Just something to consider. Lizard (talk) 02:47, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: Yeah, I was planning on doing that for some of the players but just wanted to get the major stuff done first. Plus, I was unsure how official some of the stats are. And I missed Baugh's punting, he lead the league in punt avg 5 times! One last thing, do you know how to center the stats in the rows without doing 'center /center' for each box? -Bigmoe797 03:00, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

The top row should read {| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center;" Lizard (talk) 03:04, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

If you're gonna add the stats onto the current table, I would get rid of some of the non-traditional passing stats like interception percentage and maybe yards per attempt. Lizard (talk) 03:26, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard:Ok, I may trim some of the stats. The only reason I put Int% in there was because Baugh led the league in it 5 times, so I thought it may be noteworthy. And while maybe not as meaningful for back then, Y/A is probably one of the best stats for judging passing efficiency outside of passer rating. And thanks for the centering tip! - Bigmoe797 16:09 18 November 2016 (UTC)

If you're wondering about Jim Taylor's 1966 season, just label it as a Super Bowl win. Lizard (talk) 03:15, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

That'll work too. Lizard (talk) 03:23, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: So I've been labeling Super Bowl wins as green but everywhere else it seems red, which seems a bit odd, especially when the conference champion is green. Should I changed my edits to red to match other instances or keep them? - Bigmoe797 03:27 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Looks like the NBA uses green for championships too, so it'd probably be best to stay Wikipedia consistent. Lizard (talk) 03:34, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: Ok so I should change the Super Bowls to red or just keep it green? - Bigmoe797 22:45 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Super Bowls green, pre-Super Bowl NFL championships whatever color you want. I still think Super Bowl appearances are too trivial. Avoid the tendency to write the whole article in the stats table. Lizard (talk) 23:02, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Don't take offense if someone removes one of your tables from an article. Having them or not can very much be a personal preference on certain articles. And all those colors can be offputting. Personally, I don't think stats tables are appropriate for every player. I'd probably hate to see one on Billy Cannon's page, for example. I like the current layout of that article and I feel like a big ol' table would be too intrusive. But in our current age of fantasy football obsession, most every current player will have one. Lizard (talk) 10:09, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: That's understandable, but it's just the way that guy deleted his stats that irritated me—no warning or discussion. I suppose a good alternative would be to hide the stats if some people really don't like them being there on some articles. - Bigmoe797 00:39 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I think the legend would be best presented as follows:

Legend
	Led the league
	Won Super Bowl & NFL Championship
	NFL champion
	AP NFL MVP
Bold	Career high

Much less intrusive. Lizard (talk) 17:15, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: You mean with it being hidden? Yeah that seems like a pretty good idea. Should I do it for ones that only have two rows, like Luck?

Legend
	Led the league
Bold	Career high

Bigmoe797 (talk) 22:40, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Up to you, but I would for consistency's sake. Lizard (talk) 22:42, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Prose

I see you did some work on the lead for Baugh. Looks good, but it should include some mention of his outstanding college career. I hope you'll consider doing more work with prose. It's nice to have stats tables, but where we really need more is in the text of articles. When I started about a year ago stats tables were my main concern as well. Then I started getting into writing content. You may or may not have noticed some of my work. All of those articles were in sorry states just a few months ago, which is a shame, because those were big gaps in NFL history that had gone unfilled here for a long time. Lizard (talk) 05:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard Yeah I was going to add some more to his lead but just put it off. I'll try to do more prose as well, so long as I'm familiar/comfortable with the subject matter. Are there any articles specifically that need work? Thanks for the feedback! Bigmoe797 (talk) 01:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Take your pick. Lizard (talk) 01:46, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Some advice: Something that took me a while to grasp is that stats on their own hold little encyclopedic value. They're not inherently notable. Stats should be accompanied with context. You and I understand that a player rushing for 2,000 yards is a special feat, but to someone unfamiliar with the game, it doesn't mean much. Even saying "he led the league in rushing yards five times" on its own provides very little context. For this reason, I usually avoid stats in prose unless absolutely necessary. It's also pretty boring to read a bunch of numbers. An article I frequently use for reference is Don Bradman; I know almost nothing about cricket, but because of how well that article is written, I can easily understand why he's considered the greatest cricketer of all time. Lizard (talk) 04:11, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Football awards citations

If you're interested in pages that need citations, see this list of football awards that need additional references to establish their notability. Many of these awards articles consist of just a single source: an external link to the award's official site. This does nothing to establish notability. Anyone can set up their own site and start handing out awards. See what I've done on the pages that have check marks. I've added a few citations to independent sources, to establish the fact that the award is recognized by secondary news media. There's a few that I've had trouble doing this with, but it should be pretty easy for most of them, like the Outland Trophy and Doak Walker Award. Lizard (talk) 04:16, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I'll make sure to look into it. Bigmoe797 (talk) 04:18, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution

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@Diannaa My apologies, I was unaware of the rules of drafts and no, none of that is my work. I was just trying to consolidate those articles into an article that made more sense. I'll make sure to attribute the authors next time Bigmoe797 (talk) 01:12, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

This article already exists as Route (gridiron football), by the way. Lizard (talk) 01:21, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

@Lizard Yeah I know, I was just trying to combine the separate articles which were only like a couple of paragraphs long into one article. Bigmoe797 (talk) 18:52, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps MisterCake would be interested in collaborating, since he created many of those articles and has worked extensively on the early days of the passing game. Combining may well be the best way to go since it would be difficult (and frankly not worth) expanding them individually. Lizard (talk) 18:58, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Makes sense to me, it's just nice to have something within wikipedia to link to when football jargon is required. PS Cbl62 has done a lot more on the early days of the passing game, unless your interest is the early days of the passing game in the South. Cake (talk) 19:04, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

The only problem I'm having with the article is making it so all of the pictures line up with the sections, otherwise that could be confusing. Any ideas? Bigmoe797 (talk) 21:47, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Two options: 1) You can use the {{clear}} template under the text of each section so that nothing spills over into the next section. 2) Resize the images until they fit into their respective sections without spilling over. Lizard (talk) 21:58, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

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Color format for Tom Brady's stats compared to other players -- wrong?

Hey there, avid fan of statistics here. While I was adding and updating statistics for NFL players, I saw that the statistics for Tom Brady didn't coincide with many of the other players, color-wise. I changed it up, so that green would represent the super bowls he has won and red represent the ones he has lost. My edit was subsequently undone and I was referred by user:Lizard_the_Wizard to talk with you about it first.

First of all, I had no idea that you were the brain behind so much of the great work, so kudos for that - great job!

Secondly, by looking at some of your work and the suggested formatting on your page, you agree that the colors on Brady's page should be reversed? By looking at other pages, such as Aaron Rodgers', his SB win is marked by a green background - for consistency's sake, Brady's wins should also feature a green background. I also wanted to add background colors in the super bowl-only section of his statistics, to easily reflect which of his performances led to a victory, and which performances led to a loss. I thought this would make the table much more attractive to the reader, seeing as Brady has so many appearances already, with another potentially coming in a few weeks.

I wanted to hit you up with this before I decided to revert back to my initial edit, so that you can have a say in this, seeing how dedicated you are and how much of an effort you have put into doing this.

Hope to hear back from you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rautard (talk • contribs) 00:40, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

@Rautard Hello and thanks for the feedback and appreciation! On to Brady, yes I'm aware that his statistic colors are inconsistent with others. The legend and colors were like that to begin with, so I just sort of left it, there wasn't a real reason to leave them like that. To make his table consistent with others, I would just remove the AFC champion label and make the Super Bowl label green like the rest. For Brady, it may be relevant to note his Super Bowl appearances, but Lizard and I have agreed to not do so since people can already see that in the article and it isn't noteworthy enough to put in the table. Also, it isn't strictly Brady's accomplishment—which something like leading the league would be.

Also, feel free to edit tables if they're incomplete or whatnot, just follow the rest of the table legends. Sorry for the late response. Bigmoe797 (talk) 16:27, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

@Bigmoe797 Glad to hear back from you! I just saw the page - looks much better, in my opinion! I try to edit every page I come across that doesn't use your format, whenever I have the time to do so. Rautard (talk) 18:43, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Super Bowl XLV

Sadly the odds change is the most common 'sneak' vandal edit in the article, so thanks for changing it back...again. Nate • (chatter) 07:10, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

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