User talk:Bardin/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Bardin. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Comprehensive long lists‎ discussion

Hello, I noticed that you took part in the recent FLRC for List of Arsenal F.C. players and thought you might be interested in participating in a new discussion. The FLRC was closed as no consensus and it is clear the the issue of incompleteness in longer FLs is not over, so a discussion page has been started here. Please feel free to comment. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 21:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

User 98.224.211.86

This user always changes Epica's genre in wrong way. I see that you tried to stop him (her) but (s)he didn't give up it. We should do smonething about this.--Nazzzz (talk) 11:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

The user you're referring to has actually been blocked indefinitely from editing on wikipedia. I have left a message on the talk page of the admin that last blocked this user and the sock 98.224.211.86. --Bardin (talk) 14:49, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to let you know, the admin has responded swiftly by blocking the user for an entire week. --Bardin (talk) 14:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you.--Nazzzz (talk) 18:16, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Nowrap

I noticed you added the "nowrap" thing to both the folk metal and heavy metal music infobox. But why? All the metal subgenre infboxes have always used the dash (-) as a way of seperating genres, etc. Why change it now? Changing it to {{nowrap}} simply makes things harder, breaking WP:KISS (which I am aware is not a policy/guideline, but still). Just curious. Seems much easier for inexperienced users to use a dash. And we do have to think of the inexperienced users, even if we are not among them. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 20:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I just thought it would look nicer without seeing all those genres being broken up into two lines. --Bardin (talk) 01:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Folk metal

I have passed this article's GA nomination, it was one of the best written GA noms I've read yet :) Thanks for your contributions! -- Naerii 20:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Much appreciated. --Bardin (talk) 01:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey great job on making folk metal a good article! I really appreciate your work. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 02:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I really appreciate the amount of thought and effort you put into this little corner of Wikiproject Metal. You really seem to know your stuff, I'm very impressed. Thee darcy (talk) 19:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Industrial Rock

Greetings... You should visit the Industrial Rock talk page again. I posted a reply on your "The merge proposal" section. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Gothic metal

The discussions are on Talk:Goth subculture, including a new one I created for this instance. Zazaban (talk) 19:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Illdisposed

I was looking for information on the Illdiposed in the pages of wikipedia in other languages and found a good story in the German version http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illdisposed. With a translator of machine did the translation of the article to the English and then to my language, Portuguese. I noted that the article is a version of the biography page of Illdisposed in the context Rockdetector but with slightly amended, (Unlike the idiocy that I've made previously in which you gave me some sermons!, I say councils... ha-ha-ha!) and perhaps from other sources too. Then I come through this message you ask for that (if possible and if you think it is worth, not violating any copyrights, etc.). This article translated into English because I am not fluent and I'm not sure if this text can be used as each country has its standards of conduct (I say in relation to the copyright to Germany.) I also want to know if there is anything I can do regarding infoboxes of bands, albums, finally, bands who are without it, no album category, with track listing incorrect, and so on. you know me where I can seek information regarding this matter? What I like to do more in Wikipedia and the correction of these infoboxes! (I seem to swim against the tide because most users want to write articles of forgetting the details of which I did like to practice (infoboxes...) even if it is something very minimum and without value regarding major story that I come in reading pages of wikipedia. Sincerely thank you!

I hope you understand something of what I have written in my bad fluency in English! Cannibaloki (talk) 04:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I do not understand you completely but I'll try to respond. Infoboxes can be found at Category:Music infobox templates. There's a lot of different infoboxes but I think the ones you want are Template:Infobox Musical artist and Template:Infobox Album. If the track listing are incorrect, just change them. I can't read German myself so I cannot really tell whether the German wikipedia page on Illdisposed is violating any copyright from Rockdetector or not but if they are, then someone should remove the info. You can always add info onto the Illdisposed page from the Rockdetector site if you provide the citation. Just do not copy everything word for word. So for example, do not write "The band was back in the news as 2003 closed when guitarist Lasse Bak was arrested at a football match in Aarhus. The musician was charged for "drunk and offensive behavior", receiving a fine for "throwing a ½-litre tankard containing urine at a superintendent of Aarhus Police"." as that would be a straight copy off Rockdetector. Instead write something along the line of "Guitarist Lasse Bak was arrested at Aarhus in 2003 during a football for drunk and disorderly conduct.<add citation here>" You can also try to get further assistance from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Metal. --Bardin (talk) 06:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I know how to find the infoboxes. The question that I did was - Is there a project that seeks to add infoboxes on pages that are without them? (preference for heavy metal...) My request was for you to do translation as follows - Machine translator: German to English and then you do a fix spelling in the text already translated into English. I will do the translation but the story and just enough to remove the page of lists of pages to be deleted. Okay, thanks anyway! Cannibaloki (talk) 17:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia:WikiProject Templates is the closest thing to what you have in mind. As for Illdisposed, I don't think that page is in any danger of being deleted so you really need not worry about it. --Bardin (talk) 16:23, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That's right guy you found the solution for me! Thanks friend! Cannibaloki (talk) 17:52, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Stop

I saw your note posted on Seicer's talk page. If you really are mad at ths guy it is because you got him mad. I saw the edits and he is mad because he does not think your edits effectively represent those of the culture. you are pointing out what was bad in his note but ignored the fact that he is telling you to let him and his friends edit that page and they are annoyed you won't listen. Just give them a break. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.77.148 (talk) 00:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me? The individual you are referring to has been blocked indefinitely from editing on wikipedia. I am not the person who blocked him. Contrary to your impression, I had spent a long time trying to discuss things peacefully with the person, even go as far as to make compromises. There is a reason though why the person has been blocked repeatedly and then indefinitely from editing on wikipedia. Go figure. --Bardin (talk) 02:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Strapping Young Lad

Hi! I've responded to your comments on the Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Strapping Young Lad page. Also, would you help me with the other references, listed by Ealdgyth, proving their reliability? Thank you very much in advance! Gocsa (talk) 14:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The Metal Observer

I won't revert your changes, I'll just leave it the way you edited it, bu you shouldn't blame everything on me, linke "I" deleted the statement that said like they specialize in german ad english or something like it, I just wanted to help, but I think that's not what I did, so you won't see me around that page again.-- Rockk3r Spit it Out! 04:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Blabbermouth

Hey Bardin. I just noticed your defense of Blabbermouth at the Strapping Young Lads FAC. Excellent job, I must say! I wanted to suggest something to you: since this Blabbermouth thing tends to come up every once and a while, it might be a good idea to copy+paste and/or summarize your points on the Blabbermouth.net talk page. Just so that it's easily accessible and archived for all to see if (more like when) this eventually comes up again. Anyways, I too have a metal-ish article at FAC, so your explanations came in handy for me too. So thanks for your unwitting help! Drewcifer (talk) 06:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Viking Metal

Thank you for your contribution to the AfD discussion regarding Viking metal. I will do what I can to help you improve this article over the next few days. I think we should move ahead as quickly as possible, as actual improvements to the article can make the difference in the actual outcome of the AfD discussion. I'll try to make some time to work on it tonight. Wilhelm meis (talk) 17:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Gothic metal:

I'd appreciate it if you stopped re-adding incorrect information to the 'list of gothic metal' bands page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizmonicgamer (talk • contribs) 03:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

And I would appreciate it if you familiarise yourself with wikipedia's policies, particularly those of verifiability. Your personal opinion about whether anything is correct or not is irrelevant here. --Bardin (talk) 04:00, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Its not my personal opinion, but widely accepted fact. Just because something has sources doesn't mean its true; there is a such thing as innacurate or unreliable sources.

Which, quite obviously, the ones that have been used are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizmonicgamer (talk • contribs) 05:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Once again, in bold capital letters, VERIFIABILITY, NOT TRUTH. --Bardin (talk) 06:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Then I suppose since I can find (reliable, even) sources that say Abraham Lincoln is gay, or that the government did 9/11, or that there is a Stargate in Iraq and thats why we went to war with them, that those clearly should be mentioned (as truth) in their respective articles, correct? And yet, Wikipedia does not allow all of these edits to be made, regardless of being sourced. You're enforcing a logically fallible, double-sided rule that was likely never even intended to be a strict, absolute law but rather a malleable (under the proper circumstances) guideline. Gizmonicgamer (talk)

I am unable to speak for the behavior of other editors on other articles but there is a fairly long piece on 9/11 conspiracy theories if you're interested in that. You might want to first take a look at the content guideline for fringe theories though. If you have a problem with any of the guidelines or policies of wikipedia, feel free to voice your concerns elsewhere. Perhaps the talk page of the guideline or policy you have a problem with. There's not much point complaining to me about it. --Bardin (talk) 14:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Well if you weren't the source of many of the articles problems, then maybe I wouldn't be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizmonicgamer (talk • contribs) 18:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Die volle Dröhnung AfD

Hi. FYI, I've put a response to your question onto the AfD page. :-) CultureDrone (talk) 18:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyleft art

I have put the article up as an AfD, however i don't quite understand you're reason for contesting the Prod. Do you not agree that the topic is not notable, as i clearly stated as my reason for thinking the article should be deleted on the talk page? - Jimmi Hugh (talk) 11:24, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Your reason should be placed at the PROD template itself and not the talk page. The PROD was left blank and so it appeared to me that no reason was being provided. --Bardin (talk) 11:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

My Bad, i thought i had read you could leave the reason on the talk page. - Jimmi Hugh (talk) 11:30, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

You should have just left the above message on my talk page first before nominating the page for AFD. That way, you could have just PROD it again, only with the reason provided in the PROD template itself. --Bardin (talk) 11:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Style section

Can you write the style section for Within Temptation, and rewrite the music section for Nightwish, please?--213.43.248.199 (talk) 20:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll get around to that when I have the time. Cheers. --Bardin (talk) 13:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Dawn of the Black Hearts

An article that you have been involved in editing, Dawn of the Black Hearts, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dawn of the Black Hearts. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:

Actually, I am merely following the guidelines - I think you should familiarise yourself with them a little more. An article has to assert notability, or else it can be speedily deleted. For example, if the Metallica article merely said "Metallica is a band from San Francisco", it would be eligible for speedy deletion. Speedy deletion of per CSD A7 doesn't state the article is non-notable, but that notability has not been asserted. For example, the sentence "Butterfly Temple is a Russian folk/pagan/black metal band formed in 1995" doesn't assert notability. I would like to vehemently state that this is Wikipedia, and not Metal Archives. Read WP:MUSIC as regards what is and isn't notable, and be clear that any Tom, Dick and Harry signed to X unknown label isn't automatically eligible for a Wikipedia article. This clearly illustrates why metal articles on Wikipedia will never prosper - instead of improving clearly notable articles, metal editors prefer to spend their time creating small, improperly referenced articles on groups who are non-notable and whom only are known to a small handful (and that's being kind). I'll be particularly interested to hear why you feel Tharaphita notability guidelines at WP:AFD.

Also, you have removed the CSD template from Schattentantz, but without adding to the article that Fredrik Ehmke went on to become Blind Guardian's drummer. Until that has been added, notability has not been asserted.

On another note, I think you should read WP:RS - aside from Blabbermouth.net, every source you have used in Butterfly Temple is unreliable, and would not pass close scrutiny. If I went to FAC using sources such as Chronicles of Chaos in the form of a review, I'd be laughed at. Furthermore, saying "their music features "bizarre, unusual keyboard textures and Russian chanting on top of a slew of other odd noises and a varied array of female vocals" is a misleading statement, and to pass WP:NPOV would have to be reworded thus; "According to Paul Schwarz of Chronicles of Chaos, the group's music features "bizarre, unusual keyboard textures and Russian chanting on top of a slew of other odd noises and a varied array of female vocals". Gocsa legitimately used webzine interviews (the stress being on interviews, not reviews) from such sites in his Strapping Young Lad FAC, and went through hell trying to get it to pass through. While I appreciate your advice, I'm no novice. I didn't get 4 FAs passed by being unfamiliar with Wikipedia article guidelines. LuciferMorgan (talk) 12:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Your interpretation of the guidelines is not shared by everyone. Chubbles clearly disagreed with you and so do I. WP:CSD states that to avoid speedy deletion an article does not have to prove that its subject is notable, just give a reasonable indication of why it might be notable. Where we differ is what that reasonable indication means. Chubbles feels that an Allmusic bio is a good benchmark and I'm inclined to agree. I also tend to think that a reasonable indication includes the release of five or six albums and a recording deal with a label that is described on its wiki article as the leading Russian metal music records label. You might disagree and that's fine because all I'm asking is a little courtesy extended to your fellow wikipedia editors. It does not take a lot of time to slap a CSD or PROD tag to an article but it takes a lot more time to google up a band to determine whether it is notable and then improve the article to a higher standard. Is it too much to ask that you PROD an article so that we can have a few days to look it over and improve it?

Chubbles is an editor who tries to save nearly everything - take a look at some of the non-notable tripe he has saved by browsing through some of the articles listed at his userpage. You said this "WP:CSD states that to avoid speedy deletion an article does not have to prove that its subject is notable, just give a reasonable indication of why it might be notable". The articles did not give any reasonable indication whatsoever as to why they're notable, nor did they link to any Allmusic bios - those links were added after Chubbles removed the CSD template, and not before. Let me remind you that articles which have been speedily deleted are deleted by administrators, and not myself. Therefore, those administrators agree that notability has not been asserted.

I wholly disagree with this Russian record label being a "leading" label - their website cannot be deemed a reliable source, and the Blabbermouth article you mention is likely a mere reprint of a news item they've been sent by the label themselves.

As concerns CSD'ing an article if it meets the criteria for speedy deletion, I will nominate it if I feel it meets that. I have no intentions of messaging you or anyone else for consultation every time I CSD an article - I'm not a baby, and know what I'm doing. As concerns the time it takes to work on article, I did write 4 FAs so I am well aware of the work it takes to improve articles. However, I have zero intentions of improving every esoteric metal on Wikipedia - if I wanted to work on an article, my time would be better spent working on article which actually easily satisfies the guidelines without being contested, and not a band which has little if any notoriety. LuciferMorgan (talk) 13:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not contesting everything that you've tagged for deletion. Among the folk metal acts, I agree that Khalas & Troll Gnet El are not notable enough for wikipedia but I believe Eluveitie, Arallu and Butterfly Temple are. Tharaphita is a more borderline case and I'm not entirely convinced myself but I would appreciate it if you can give me some time to work on the article before you send it to AFD.

The three articles you mention above met the criteria for speedy deletion, and in two out of the three cases, admins agreed with me. Had you not removed the CSD template on the third, I really believe the third would've been rightly deleted per CSD A7. Notability wasn't asserted, but that isn't to say the groups weren't notable. If Eluveitie's article asserted notability, I would've had no intentions of tagging it, and also have no intentions of taking it to AFD when it is recreated. I'm sure Eluveitie meet notability guidelines, but that has to be asserted in the article. An album on Nuclear Blast, and the Paganfest touring for example, all weigh up to a good case. LuciferMorgan (talk) 13:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I am well aware of your attitude towards sources but I'm willing to wager that if you take the Butterfly Temple article right now to AFD, it will easily pass as keep. Your view of what reliable sources are is clearly not shared by everyone. You mentioned Gosca going through hell with his Strapping Young Lad FAC. Well, take a look at the FAC discussion again because I was the one who explained why (most of) the sources he used in that article is reliable. That includes Chronicles of Chaos. --Bardin (talk) 12:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I certainly contest it would not be an easy keep. For example, you've used the label's own site to assert the label is "leading" - clearly fails WP:RS. Also, I could arguably contest that Blabbermouth is reprinting a news item sent by Irond Records as I stated above. However, I would say that it'd be an eventual keep now notability has been asserted. Given the fact that Irond Records republishes music from clearly notable labels, your opinion would be eventually vindicated. LuciferMorgan (talk) 13:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I will just note here that WP:CSD clearly states that Deletion is not required if a page meets these criteria. Before nominating an article for speedy deletion, consider whether it could be improved, reduced to a stub, merged or redirected elsewhere or be handled with some other action short of deletion. Even though you seem aware that Eluveitie is on a notable lable like Nuclear Blast, you apparently did not consider whether any other actions is more appropriate. Could you not have written that info in the article yourself instead of tagging it for speedy deletion? Or just tag it with the notability tag instead? I do not know what your problem is or why you seem so determined to be uncooperative but I guess that's your prerogative. I merely asked a simple courtesy to use PROD instead of CSD so that other editors can have time to improve the articles but if you're unwilling to extend such a simple courtesy, so be it. You like to trumpet the fact that you've written 4 featured articles but I'm not impressed. You might be experienced on wikipedia but your attitude leaves a lot to be desired. --Bardin (talk) 17:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me? What aspect of WP:MUSIC guidelines states that I have to improve all articles that meet CSD? None. I am following CSD guidelines, whether you like it or not. No editor is compelled to improve articles they know meet notability guidelines but do not assert notability, and you're in no position to condemn them. The article on Eluveitie contained zero information worth salvaging, and it got legitimately deleted by an admin. While you gave me the impression I got the article deleted by mentioning it to me (I put all articles I tag for speedy deletion in my watchlist, and was confused why it wasn't in it), upon further scrutiny, it wasn't even me who got the article speedily deleted - it was User:Damirolejar. I had nothing whatsoever to do with Eluveitie's deletion.

As concerns my attitude leaving a lot to be desired, I'd actually say the same to yourself - this is clearly proven by the fact you were short and sharp with Happyme22 for no reason below. I keep restating the fact that I've written 4 featured articles because you continually like to lecture me on how to write articles, when in fact you are the one who makes schoolboy mistakes such as adding self-published sources. Don't lecture me on what or not what to do, and I won't have to keep reminding you I'm not a newbie - that isn't hard to understand. If I am so uncooperative, that's why I actually gave Chubbles time to flesh out the articles he contested? Also, that's why I consulted with him as concerns one article before nominating it for AFD? Chubbles has been quite courteous towards me, and for that I am full of praise for him. Instead of trying to lecture me on what or what not to do like you have, he has discussed things. If you think lecturing other editors on what to do is being cooperative, then you're real mistaken. I've tried discussing things with you here, but all you've done is lecture me.

In light of your attitude towards me (which leaves a lot to be desired in itself, therefore making you a 110% hypocrite), don't waste my time by messaging me the next time an article has been nominated for PROD or whatever - it takes time responding to other people's concerns, and with the attitude you have I actually have better things to do. LuciferMorgan (talk) 20:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Lecture? Hypocrite? I think those are descriptions best applied to yourself. I do not believe I have ever told you how to write an article. On the other hand, you have done so right in this very exchange with regards to the use of the Chronicles of Chaos review on the Butterfly Temple article. When have I lectured you on how to write an article? I am honestly ignorant of such an occurence and if you can demonstrate it by providing a link, then I would be quite happy to apologise if I had indeed made an error of presuming that you need any advice or criticism. As far as attitude is concerned, I note that another editor has just left a note on your talk page regarding your lack of civility. I might have crossed words with a couple of editors before but I do not recall every saying anything like "Before making such dumbfuck comments in future, actually know what you're talking about" as you did at Rm w a vu's talk page or "you're talking total horseshit Michig. Don't tell me what a discussion is about - I don't know who the fuck you think you are to be frank." as you did at this AFD. So hey, job well done on those 4 FAs. --Bardin (talk) 08:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

As concerns Rm w a vu's comments, oddly enough I didn't take too kindly to his insinuation that I am a lazy journalist - I spend many hours of my time working on journalistic articles for nothing, and put a lot of time in. If someone said you were a lazy lawyer for example (which you're likely not), then I would be very interested in seeing how you would feel as regards that. LuciferMorgan (talk) 11:47, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Deleted articles

I will restore them, but you must establish why they are notable. Otherwise, they will fail WP:N and anyone can nominate them for speedy deletion (again) or WP:AfD. Happyme22 (talk) 18:02, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Let them nominate the articles for AFD. Take them to AFD yourself if you are so inclined. A wider discussion is always better than the arbitrary whims of one or two individuals. I have already informed you that both bands qualify as notable per criteria 1 of WP:MUSIC and that I will work on the article to demonstrate that. What more do you want from me now? Am I supposed to create a stub article for you to inspect? Please just restore them and let me work on them. If you cannot exercise any patience, then just send them straight to AFD immediately. Okay, nevermind. Thank you for restoring them. --Bardin (talk) 18:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

A question

I've copied-pasted the symphonic gothic metal section of gothic metal article to symphonic metal. I think this won't bother you since I put an information like this  (sorry bad language :S) but I wanted to let you know. Is that OK? Thanks.--Nazzzz (talk) 18:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

No, of course, it does not bother me. That nowiki bit is not even necessary. I've been meaning to work on the symphonic metal article, among other things, but I've been so busy that I haven't had the time to do so. --Bardin (talk) 08:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Subway to Sally - Krähenfrass.ogg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Subway to Sally - Krähenfrass.ogg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Angband (band)

Hello sir, I created an article about Angband, but It was deleted. once the creator claimed they are the first metal band from Iran to sign a deal with a European records company but didnt have enough sources, I have many sources like: www.lordsofmetal.nl , www.stormbringer.at , www.localradio.pehzeh.net www.metal-rules.com and their album has lotf of good feedbacks, I created a page in my sandbox: User:Spada2/Sandbox would you please take a look at it and the question I have: can I create the page not mentioning the first band thing due to their positive feedbacks? Thanks in advance--Spada2 (talk) 13:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Padillah AN/I

Just wanted to say "Thanks for the support". Padillah (talk) 12:00, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Bardin. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2