User talk:Alltan

Falimenderit Alltan vlla per ndhime. <3

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"Sizeable"

Hello. I have no intention of reverting back and forth on articles that get 2 views per day. You seem to be new so please read WP:BRD: if you're reverted on a change you make to an article you must, instead of reverting back, take it to the talkpage to get support for your edit. --Local hero ^talk 18:33, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Hey whats up man. Yeah that was getting out of hand. I apologize if i seemed reckless. I will follow your suggestions and will also try to be a bit more reasonable with the name changes. Just one thing what do i do when i post on the talk page but nobody responds? Do i wait a while then revert or? Thanks mate Alltan (talk) 19:23, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

I appreciate that. If no one responds within a reasonable amount of time, carry on with your edits and if someone takes issues they would hopefully join the discussion then. --Local hero ^talk 20:15, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

No worries man thanks for being reasonable. If you have any issue with my edits or ideas on how i can improve myself on here, please go ahead and write to me. Cheers mateAlltan (talk) 20:20, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Template

Hey, I noticed that you have created the code of a template about Albanian noble families. I just wanted to tell you that I created the template based on your code, you can now add the template just by typing {{Albanian nobility}} at the end of the concerned articles. N.Hoxha (talk) 15:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you!Alltan (talk) 04:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

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Potentially useful links

Hi Alltan. You asked me some questions about some Wikipedia processes, so I placed some potentially useful links in the section above. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 10:18, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Looks useful afaics, thanks for the heads up! And I wish you luck on that stupid 3rr report or whatever it is, bet the admins are super confused at this point. Or maybe theyre laughing their butts off at the nonsense before their eyes. Anyways, tis what it is, see ya!Alltan (talk) 12:27, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

The discussion at the 3RR noticeboard, it is now closed. Whenever you need to ask about Wikipedia's rules, you know where to do so :) Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:01, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Sources

Can u pls add reliable sources on the Georgi Pulevski page to back up your edit. --Lukanka (talk) 03:07, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

That he was a Mijak? Umm, its not a myth really its in the article itself too, Mijak Galički he calls himself.Alltan (talk) 03:23, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Yh that's great I am not doubting you but you need to add sources because that is how wikipedia works :D --Lukanka (talk) 11:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Well if u didnt doubt that you wouldn't have asked Jingiby, and the sources were already part of the article for years. But youre new here so its no prob youll get the hang of itAlltan (talk) 11:51, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

chill --Lukanka (talk) 15:55, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Can you also please take a look at the https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Mijaks page and provide sources for the notable people section? Thanks --Lukanka (talk) 15:58, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Im chill enough alright. And I cant be bothered unfortunately, but feel free to do as you see fit. And those guys are mijaks, you can try disputing that but its common knowledge really. You should also use the talk page before any edits on controversial sites, if you have the material no one can dispute you. Cheers mateAlltan (talk) 17:35, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Also good job on the pulevski link :)Alltan (talk) 17:45, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Yh no worries I am not a nationalist so I don't fight over the ethnicities of dead people lol (not accusing you but talking about other users on this site), we are all humans after all. I will check for sources about those notable figures when I have time, if reliable sources are not added there is more risk that in the future a user will remove that information. Anyway have a good day :D--Lukanka (talk) 20:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

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Lay's Chips

	Scholar
	Thank you for your good work and improving articles. Excine (talk) 12:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh I did not even notice this! Thank you so much!!! Alltan (talk) 21:39, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Mavriqi (tribe) moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Mavriqi (tribe), is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Mccapra (talk) 06:21, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

thanks, you are right. I will soon start improve it. Maybe after I feel I finished with it, you could take another look. Alltan (talk) 19:45, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

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Alright got it! Alltan (talk) 21:27, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

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Extraordinary sources

@Alltan: I noticed that you have removed a lot of text from an article without any discussion. In the edit summary, you wrote that the text is WP:EXTRAORDINARY and that the only given source itself was written in the Milosevic era, when many Serbian academics produced works with nationalist and exaggerated claims of victimization that suited the government's nationalistic narrative. On the other hand, you are inserting equally extraordinary material into articles, citing Albanian sources. The idea that Serbian sources are "nationalist" and "exaggerated" just because they are Serbian, while non-Serbian sources are good, is very dangerous. Please, do not make such radical edits without prior discussion. Vanjagenije (talk) 10:41, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

I didn't remove some sources because they're Serbian, but because sources published in the Milosevic era aren't seen as academically credible in general. If some of the removals are disputed, I'm open to discussion about them. Alltan (talk) 15:13, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

That is not true. Can you point to some consensus that all sources publish during the Milosevic era are per se unreliable? And, Wikipedia works exactly the opposite way. If you are disputing some of the sources, then you should start the discussion. Vanjagenije (talk) 10:56, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Vanjagenije, I am not familiar with this editor, but some of their edits are causing some commotion, esp. with an allegedly brand-new editor who got to work with a blunt ax. Please see User talk:StoryCarver--perhaps you have a more informed opinion than I could have. Drmies (talk) 15:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

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Jazirce

Hi, Alltan. As part of a New Page review i've moved your article Jazirce into draft space where it can be worked on. It could potentially meet WP:GEOLAND but the sources are lacking, possibly additional criteria if historical importance can be proven. I've checked the data published on the 2002 North Macedonia census but it appears only municipality level is available and the 2021 census has only had the same published so far this year. There are however other earlier censuses that may be findable to a speaker of Macedonian or Turkish. An article exists at mk-wiki here which will prove useful for developing the draft. Specifically i find the 1976 reference at Mk-wiki of interest because it could prove more recent occupation; i have however not been able to track it down and verify it. There is also an [unpopulated] locality in the region called Jazirce which may need to be disambiguated against. A passing mention of a settlement called Jazirce (in the locale of Skopje) is made on a website called ЗЕЛЕНА ПОЗИТИВА but i cannot find anything to confirm the reliability of that as a source and prima facie indication is it's not.

Regarding the prose on Trnica it is unclear what this is referring to. I understand that perhaps there was a previous settlement that was destroyed so please add some additional prose for clarity on that. Additionally there is an image at Commons which may be relevant to this article.

If you could work on the sourcing that would be great, even better if the content could be improved but not necessary. When complete you can move it back into mainspace for review, feel free to ping me when you do so. Regards, Zindor (talk) 07:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Will do.Alltan (talk) 13:28, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

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Reč and Strezimir, Gostivar

As a result of reviewing, i have moved prose from these articles to Gostivar Municipality as there is some encyclopedic value and i will redirect them there shortly. Given the lack of population for possibly over a century, the small population when they did exist, and the lack of other unique historical significance it would appear that the subjects shouldn't have standalone articles. Thank you for creating them though, and like i say the information has been repurposed. Regards, Zindor (talk) 19:28, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Zindor If I expand the articles can they be reinstated? Thank you.Alltan (talk) 12:31, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Without knowing exactly what that would entail, i can't give you a definite answer on that, but the strong indication is that they are gazeteer territory. You're welcome to get a second opinion from another reviewer, and i'd advise that before pursuing further research into the topic. Thanks, Zindor (talk) 13:07, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

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Matevski

Hello. Apparently Matevski claimed to be of Albanian origin in 2012? I see this on the Albanian wiki but unsourced. I tried to find some English sources supporting this but I couldn't find anything, though I assume the source you added is about this and, thus, don't plan on reverting again. --Local hero ^talk 15:46, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi

Hey Dajasta, how you doing? Surix321 (talk) 18:36, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Not sure that I understand who or what is "Dalasta"Alltan (talk) 19:06, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Can you please help on Prishtina, and Kosovo wp pages, There are a few people edit warring and discrediting academic sources for defters, Thank you. Surix321 (talk) 15:30, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

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Michele Greco da Valona

Thank you for showing interest in the page I published. If you have any questions you can direct them to me. Most of the extensive research on the subject is in Italian and requires translation. I will improve the page, if you want more extensive citations.Tzim78 (talk) 17:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

This is the translated version of the Italian book. On page 366.Tzim78 (talk) 17:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Michele Greco passed through Italy following a migratory flow somewhat different from that usual for his countrymen, whose main destinations were represented by Venice and from Puglia. Alongside a clearly Byzantine basic culture, Michele Greco shows precise Venetian updates, in the direction of Carlo Crivelli, widely active in the Marche but also known in Abruzzo for some of his works located in the Teramo area. The Greek gradually gets rid of his Byzantine origin, if this is now completely absent in the most recent of his triptychs, with surprisingly similar results to the manner of a painter who works on the Tyrrhenian shore, namely Vincenzo de Rogata, and in particular to his triptych evidenced by the coven of San Bernardino in Salerno.Tzim78 (talk) 17:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

The paintings also reflect his migratory pattern.Tzim78 (talk) 17:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Please do not add uncited content to pages in the future. Wikipedia is not a place for Original research.Alltan (talk) 19:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Shaban Demiraj - "La situation ethnique-linguistique des habitants de Dropulli et de Vurgu au cours des siecles" (2008)

Hey Alltan! Could you please provide me with some excerpts or quotes from Demiraj's work if possible? I am mainly interested in reading his comments on the defter of 1431-2 since I see that you have cited his paper and written that anthroponymy was attested, however, I have access to the register itself and personal names were not recorded. Perhaps Demiraj was referencing the later registers of the 16th century? Thanks! Lezhjani1444 (talk) 22:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

This is what it says:"Les noms propres de formes typiques albanaises sont rencontrés aussi dans le Defter du Sandjak de Delvinë de 1431-1432 sur Vurg, appelé ainsi par le mot du grec moderne vurkos "pays bas, marais". Dans ce registre-là ne sont enregistrés que quatre villages Finiki (Finiqi), Vurgo, Jeromi et Krajna (Kranéja) avec très peu d’habitants21. Parmi ces villages Finiqi évoque le nom de l’ancienne cité des Chaons, Phoeniks, fondée vers le Ve s. avant l'ère moderne. Concernant ces villages aussi, dans le registre ottoman ci-dessus mentionné sont inscrits des noms albanais typiques tels que : Gjin Reçi, Gjin Panariti, Gjin Zagorino, Gjin Krali (Frali), Leka Gjini (2 fois), Kozha Gjini, Gjin Vija, Zhupa Gjin, Gjini Spiri, Gjin Andrea, Kont Gjin Andrea, Gjon Dorza, Gjon Zhurmo, Meksh Gjoni, Polimer Gjoni, mais aussi Jani Jagop, Jani Katani, Jani Kosta, Jani Bogdani, Luka Jani, Jani Ispatari, Nika Jani (Finiq), Gjin Ilia, Gjin Pelegri, Gjin Kasnesi, Gjon Pelegri, Dhimo Gjini, Gjon Martini, Martin Gjoni, Deda Gjoni (Krane)22. Mais, selon Shkurti23, dans la zone de Vurgu, en 1927, ont été recensés 25 villages : Çukë, Pal, Aliko, Çaush, Tremul, Kasëmallajbej, Kaliveshush, Jermë, Halo, Kalivepasha, Krané, Ymerefend, Finiq, Vrion, Memushbej, Hajdëragas, Qenurjo, Karalibej, Vromero, Karahaxh, Mavropull, Metoq e Gjashtë, Rahullë, Shijan, Muçopolit, Mullamus qui, en 1927, comptaient en tout 3262 habitants. Donc, la majorité de ces villages ont dû être fondés après le recensement ottoman du XVe sc.".

GTranslate renders the English version as: Proper names of typical Albanian forms are also encountered in the Defter of the Sanjak of Delvinë from 1431-1432 on Vurg, so called by the Modern Greek word vurkos "low country, swamp". In this register only records four villages Finiki (Finiqi), Vurgo, Jeromi and Krajna (Kranéja) with very few inhabitants21. Among these villages Finiqi evokes the name of the ancient city of the Chaons, Phoeniks, founded around the 5th century. before the modern era. Concerning these villages also, in the Ottoman register mentioned above are registered names typical Albanians such as: Gjin Reçi, Gjin Panariti, Gjin Zagorino, Gjin Krali (Frali), Leka Gjini (2 times), Kozha Gjini, Gjin Vija, Zhupa Gjin, Gjini Spiri, Gjin Andrea, Kont Gjin Andrea, Gjon Dorza, Gjon Zhurmo, Meksh Gjoni, Polimer Gjoni, but also Jani Jagop, Jani Katani, Jani Kosta, Jani Bogdani, Luka Jani, Jani Ispatari, Nika Jani (Finiq), Gjin Ilia, Gjin Pelegri, Gjin Kasnesi, Gjon Pelegri, Dhimo Gjini, Gjon Martini, Martin Gjoni, Deda Gjoni (Krane)22. But, according to Shkurti23, in the Vurgu area, in 1927, 25 villages were listed: Çukë, Pal, Aliko, Çaush, Tremul, Kasëmallajbej, Kaliveshush, Jermë, Halo, Kalivepasha, Krané, Ymerefend, Finiq, Vrion, Memushbej, Hajdëragas, Qenurjo, Karalibej, Vromero, Karahaxh, Mavropull, Metoq e Gjashtë, Rahullë, Shijan, Muçopolit, Mullamus which in 1927 had a total of 3262 inhabitants. So the majority of these villages must have been founded after the Ottoman census of the 15th c."

So to me this sounds like he is talking about the 1431-1432 one. Alltan (talk) 22:55, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I see, it does indeed seem that he is referring to the register of 1431-2 (i.e., the sûreti defter-i sancak-i Arvanid) which is a little odd since anthroponyms were not listed. It seems to me that Demiraj made a mistake and the data is actually from the register of the 16th century (e.g., 1582). Lezhjani1444 (talk) 23:23, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

That's rather odd. Maybe he is talking about someplace else? I'm not sure either. I will check it again when I have time, thanks for the heads up mate. Alltan (talk) 23:40, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

We have to read the entire source in order to understand what the author is discussing. Just above this section, Demiraj (2008) writes: Par conséquent, il n’est pas très difficile d’éclaircir historiquement et linguistiquement la question de la langue des villages grécophones de Dropull aujourd'hui. Comme on vient de démontrer ci-dessus, au temps des recensements ottomans du XVIe s., parmi les noms des habitants des ces villages-là, la présence de l’élément albanais, qui aurait dominé, est bien évidente bien qu'en considérant leur position géographique l’on ne puisse non plus exclure la probabilité de la présence de quelque élément grécophone également. Mais la diffusion du grec dans ces villages appartient à la période après l’occupation ottomane, donc c'est un phénomène relativement tardif qui a besoin d'être expliqué. Toutefois, le problème de la diffusion du grec dans les villages de Dropull est semblable à celui des villages grécophones de Vurg de Delvinë. C’est pourquoi, nous allons nous arrêter un peu sur ces villages aussi (translation: Therefore, it is not very difficult to elucidate historically and linguistically the question of the language of the Greek-speaking villages of Dropull today. As we have just shown above, at the time of the Ottoman censuses of the 16th century, among the names of the inhabitants of these villages, the presence of the Albanian element, which would have dominated, is quite evident, although considering their geographical position, one cannot exclude the probability of the presence of some Greek-speaking element as well. But the spread of Greek in these villages belongs to the period after the Ottoman occupation, so it is a relatively late phenomenon that needs to be explained. About the 1431-32 defter he writes that it records only four villages Hence when he refers to the anthroponymy of the defters in the section and writes Concerning these villages also, in the Ottoman register mentioned above there are registered typical Albanian names, the relevant defters are those of the 16th century.--Maleschreiber (talk) 10:09, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

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Use of categories of non-existing entities on cities

Dear Alltan, the creation of "former ethnicity settlement" categories like how you did here: [1] and then added on the following articles: [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] suggests falsely that the city was formerly controlled by a/the said nation which is WP:OR and goes against Wikipedia's guidelines, and considering that the aforementioned cities are not known for coming under the control of a Cham state controlled by the minority that resided in these cities. A category implying that such an entity existed that has asserted control over the settlements, is POV-Pushing and disruptive and goes against Wikipedia's standard practices. Please refrain from such uses of categories in the future. They are not for that purpose. - ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 17:53, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

You are accusing me of something I never did though. The category is not about a "nation", its about an ethnicity. There never was a Cham state, which is irrelevant because an ethnicity does not have to have a state. Now, please do link to me a Wikipolicy which says "no former ethnicity categories allowed". Otherwise rv yourself. Alltan (talk) 17:58, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Hmmm categories are not used for ethnicties either, only for political entities that controlled the said settlement through its history. For the ethnic groups, no categories can be used, I am afraid. Unfortunately there is already the template Cham Albanians and this too shouldn't have been used since this is not how Categories are meant to be used. Nor you can find a "Dutch people" or "Greek people" Template in them either. Wrongly to what was attempted on cities in the Greece topic area, and what was done in the Albania topic area, the templates are not meant to be used for that purpose on articles about cities. The articles need a cleanup from ethnic templates and categories, not adding more of them. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 18:05, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

For example, New York City was founded as a dutch settlement, and Istanbul/Constantinople was founded as a Greek settlement but you wont see a "former Dutch settlement" or "former Greek settlement" on their articles, historic or not. Just this is not what templates are meant to be used for. The only reason Northern Epirus and Cham Albanian templates were created is because of the usual nationalist WP:BALKANS sentiments among editors which have no place in Wikipedia I am afraid. All the templates or categories need to be removed from cities regardless of ethnicity. Ethnic templates, if the Wikipedia community agrees into having any, may only be placed on the Ethnic people's article and only. Not cities. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 18:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Why are you bringing up templates? Categories for ethnicities are used all the time on Wikipedia, and do forgive me if I am reluctant to agree on the opposite without seeing a relevant Wikipolicy. Can you please just link to one? Otherwise you will have to convince Wikipedia to adopt one. Till that happens, you should rv yourself. Alltan (talk) 18:12, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Categories are not used for categorizing cities on racial or ethnic grounds. This is completely unecyclopedic to do. Instead, the articles may be categorized only by academic criteria, such as political, archeological or historical criteria. Not racial/ethnic! This is very disruptive for an encyclopedia. By the way, you have my apologies for the mistake on my edit summary when I reverted the inclusion of your category to city articles. While removing it, I wrongly called it a template which was unintended. Thankfully the edit itself makes it clear I was removing just the category. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 18:36, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

"Categories are not used for categorizing cities on racial or ethnic grounds." Says who? Do you or do you not have a policy on which you back up such claims? Because the above comments of yours are just your opinions if not, and they don't belong on Wikipedia. I have asked you thrice already, please just link/quote it. If you don't, revert yourself. And please, make sure something like this does not happen again. Alltan (talk) 19:18, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I am pointing to the common practices in Wikipedia. If you look at any Greek city articles, you wont find any such unecyclopedic categories added to them! All the years Wikipedia existed, none, ever has added such categories. None. You are the very first person doing so and are refusing to be reasoned with. This speaks volumes. This ain't changing now just because you say so. Forget it. The last thing Wikipedia needs is flooding the category section with disruptive POV-pushing nationalist additions. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 19:48, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

So you don't? Why didn't you say so in the first reply? I had to ask 3 times just for it to be a "common practice on Wikipedia". Well, turns out: its not! Who could have guessed it? Lets' look at some examples shall we? Armenians: [12], Assyrians: [13], Kurds [14] etc. Not enough? No worries, take a look at this: [15]. Yeah. Does not seem to me I created all these. Btw are you gonna revert yourself or not? Alltan (talk) 20:25, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

You should have informed from the start that you were simply doing something the Wikipedia community has already done in the past instead of being just a Balkans-related phenomenon. You know how wary I am with the Balkan nationalism, so at least I owe you my gratitude for informing me later than never that it isn't a Balkan-exclusive new thing and also an apology for any inconvenience I may have caused to you. So, yes, in this case, I do consent to the addition of the category. If you allow me, I will be happier if this is done under the condition that this category, "Category:Former Cham settlements, is renamed into "Category:Former Cham inhabited settlements. Are you ok with that proposed minor change? Of the categories you showed me, I am finding the Armenian one, along with the US one, to be a tad better titled. Would you agree to that? Also, consider adding some text inside the category explaining the readers what it is about. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 20:57, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

@Alltan: Presumably you don't mind if I add [16] to Greek inhabited settlements in Albania? Khirurg (talk) 23:13, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

@Khirurg What do you mean? This category is already added in all relevant articles. @SilentResident I don't see why "inhabited" has to be included. According to Wikipedia itself, "a settlement, locality or populated place is a community in which people live." It doesn't necessarily mean they founded it. If you could be so kind as to reinstate "Former Cham settlements", that would be nice. Alltan (talk) 17:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I am no longer objecting to the use of such categories in the Greece topic area but please don't ask me to add a category with a less clarified name than the one I suggested. I won't oppose you adding the one you prefer, but if you dismiss my NPOV concerns then I don't want to be part of this. Good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 18:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

But it was you who removed the category 1). with no Wikipolicy barring its usage and 2). while wrongly claiming its not used at all on Wikipedia. I did not drag you into this. You then apologized for the mishap, but are not willing to reinstate it without a minor change. Before that, you told me : I am pointing to the common practices in Wikipedia. Then said I should have informed you from the start: You should have informed from the start that you were simply doing something the Wikipedia community has already done in the past instead of being just a Balkans-related phenomenon. Thing is, I did: Categories for ethnicities are used all the time on Wikipedia,.... It is not my fault you did not bother to check the validity of your accusations without accusing me of flooding the category section with disruptive POV-pushing nationalist additions. In the future, do not be so quick to accuse and lump others into "boxes" without being absolutely certain your cause for accusation is legitimate. Alltan (talk) 19:12, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

You provided me with evidence for the opposite being true, later, not when I pointed you to articles such as Ioannina, and Istanbul, (which shows that I had my check for validity but apparently it wasn't enough... I should have checked Turkey's topic area but it just didn't came to my mind that moment. Just it is the Greek cities like Ioannina and some foreign ones such as Istanbul that came to my mind because they flashed on my mind thanks to their rich multicultural character. Or I should have searched using the Wiki's search engine for other categories but didn't think of doing that because I assumed it was pointless to do so) - just I was certain I was dealing with a new, Balkan exclusive disruption once again. Thing is, when I told you that you should have told me from the start, I didn't mean just your words - I meant your evidence to counter mine (these cities I pointed above to verify my arguments). You didn't provide right away any evidence that indeed such categories are present and this led to me doubting that there are really any. That's what I am trying to tell you. Because without that evidence, plus the fact that cities with rich ethnic divercity lacked categories and yet, the fact that you created 3 categories [17] [18] [19] and trying to add them without discussing them after seeing that you were getting revert by other editors? I was certain, considering these facts, that we were dealing with the usual POV-pushing case here. None creates 3 categories and avoids using the talk page after being reverted already once for the first category. Your contributions log was sending the wrong impressions to other editors especially in the Greece topic area such as me, where we haven't been using such categories since forever. So yes, these unfortunate conclusions happen. That's why after your first category was reverted you ought to discuss the matter, not insist with creating more categories. However, the misunderstanding has been cleared now and this is what matters here. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 19:53, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I guess, if Alltan wants to add their newly created category on certain settlements in Greece, and considering that they pointed out to a precedent in Wikipedia, then I can't in any possible way imagine why they would not let you do the same on Albania. However, if I may add something: all editors should refrain from abusing the categories which is what concerns me the most. I consent to their fair use, not abuse. Categories may for example be reasonable in small towns and villages where the former minority's presence is historically influential, but I am not ok with categorizing the large urban centers of Greece which are known as places where multiple groups reside. IMO, cities whose long history and notability are vastly disproportionate to the influence of minorities in them, such as Athens, Ioannina, or Thessalonica, should not see their articles now being flocked with certain "former X ethnic minority Settlement" categories or whatever. So, I will kindly ask everybody to use these categories wisely. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 00:10, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Of course, that goes without saying. Khirurg (talk) 01:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Well I go by sources. If the article has sources which describe Cham settlement in it, that's good enough for the criterion. I would however be reluctant to add places like Ioannina, or any place outside of Chameria as these aren't really of significance to their history. But still, if the article (sources) say it, that is what is most important. Alltan (talk) 17:42, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes and no. Even if a single source verifies Greek presence in Istanbul or Jewish presence Thessalonica or Albanian presence in Ioannina, then expect no consensus because this is not how categories are used. Sources aren't the sole criteria for inclusion. For example thousands of sources confirm a 15%-20% of Istanbul's total population being Kurdish, yet you won't see the Kurds In Turkey category being added to Istanbul's article. [20] for obvious reasons which I explained above. Personally I am very grateful to you for showing me how the US, a multiethnic nation, has its ethnic group categorization following a more encyclopedic fashion, by having their ethnic populations categorically structured like this [21]. Which IMO is much better encyclopedically instead of the other option, the one of flooding California's, LA's or NY's articles category section with the hundreds of ethnic categories. No matter what a source says, there is no consensus for doing such a thing to large cities so forget it. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 18:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Can you kindly stop telling me to "forget it"? I just told you cities without historical significance should not be added, and I said sources, that being plural i.e multiple. If you are not gonna have a respectful discussion with me then don't bother commenting on my talk page. I have never referred to you in such a way, I expect the same. Alltan (talk) 18:58, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Alltan, I am trying to dash away any hopes of abusing the use of categories because the exact same thing about categories has been attempted in the past. For example the [[Category:Chameria]] was already attempted addition on Igoumenitsa: [22] but reverted. And not only categories but even templates such as the Template {{Cham Albanians}} which was added on Ioannina: [23]. But if my tone seems a bit too serious to the point of it becoming offending, then you have my apologies. That's however not my intention here, because, as you see, I simply do not forget, every minute that passes, the fact we are making edits in the wp:Balkans topic area where I have seen any kinds of abuses of such features, which you can't imagine, so excuse me if my caution gets the better of me. Just trying to send pretty clear messages in that we all have to be cautious because if larger cities which are noted for being multiethnic, there isn't a category in an article reflecting this, it stands to reason that it may be due to it not helping the readers as much as an editor assumes. Good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 19:32, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I can see your point. The Cham Albanian thing is indeed unrelated to Ioannina. However, significant parts of coastal Epirus were historically inhabited by this sub-group, and there is in my view nothing wrong with pointing this out. I think if we go on article by article basis, reflect on the sourced material, and discuss on the TP of those relevant articles, we can achieve a desirable outcome. I do not doubt there can be problems, dispute and disagreements. However, as long as these are all approached on the basis of Good faith and sourcing, all will work itself out. P.s I don't mean to be super "defensive", or anything, its just that I personally try to either keep a calm civil conversation, or to not have it at all. I don't know you, but I have seen you be more reasonable and willing to try and reach solutions in comparison to "other" editors. For this you have my respect, regardless of what may occur moving forward. Alltan (talk) 19:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes agree. Btw that was really kind of you to say for me, and I wholeheartedly thank you for that. You too seem a reasonable editor too and I am glad. You have my apologies if I appear too protective of the Greece topic area. You have no idea how sad I am that the following article WP:BALKANS exists and why I strive so much to keep all forms of (real or perceived) disruption at bay and maintain this topic area's stability, which IMO is quite stable compared to mixed or more historical topic areas. Even if I don't know you for a long time (Been in Wikipedia for over 12 years, but I only remember seeing your around name for like a year or so.?) I am looking into working in the future together more productively. Have a good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 21:20, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Alltan: The cat I am talking about is missing form many articles, e.g. Gjirokaster, Saranda, Korce, Vlore, and others. Khirurg (talk) 21:35, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

We have to set up a norm for such categories. There isn't any compact and/or substantial Greek community in Vlorë, Durrës, Korçë etc. If the norm is to just add categories where an ethnic community lives, then we would have to tag Athens too because more Albanians live there than Greeks in all of Albania. Alltan (talk) 13:32, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Category:Cham settlements

The page Category:Cham settlements has been deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which pages can be deleted at any time, without discussion. As the page met any of these strictly-defined criteria, it was deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been deleted are:

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Former Cham settlements

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Historical Cham settlements

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Former Cham settlements

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Albanians of Western Thrace

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Notis Botsaris

Hi thanks for creating this article. When we translate or borrow from other language wikis it’s a requirement to acknowledge the source. The best way to do this is to include it in your edit summary (e.g. “translated from el.wiki”) and there’s also a translation template you can add to the talk page. I’ve added it for you. Happy editing and please leave a message on my talk page if you need any help Mccapra (talk) 20:28, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

My bad! I did not know that. I will make sure to properly explain whenever I translate in the future. Thank you for the tip! Alltan (talk) 20:32, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

September 2022

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I have been asked to coordinate discussion of the issue of the reliability as a source as Pellumb Xhufi. You are one of the editors who has either used Xhufi as a source or expressed a concern about the use of Xhufi as a source. The place for the discussion is at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Pellumb Xhufi. Your participation is not required but is encouraged, and may be the best way to have your opinion considered. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:09, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

@Alltan the discussion has moved to the next stage. Participation is very low until now and far from representative of previous discussions and talk pages.

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Disruptive edit on Voisava Kastrioti's page

Hi, Alltan

I recently undid an edit of yours (possibly fueled by nationalistic motives) on Voisava's page. You removed an entire paragraph that gives a summary of scholars work on Voisava's roots.

Please stop with disruptive edits on an already highly targeted page, especially without listing specific reasons for it.

Thanks in advance. Aleksandarstankov (talk) 21:57, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

villages in North Macedonia

I noticed that you did a lot of copy&paste to create Kosovo, Makedonski Brod and Zvečan, Makedonski Brod, and had to fix a lot of glaring errors. Please be more careful and use the Help:Show preview tool before submitting. --Joy (talk) 10:26, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

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April 2023

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give a page a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Insurgency in Karadak-Gollak. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases for registered users, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Requests for history merge. Thank you. – robertsky (talk) 01:13, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Yeah my bad, I messed up a redirect than it wouldn't move to what I wanted it too. I will be more careful in the future - thanks' for the heads up! Alltan (talk) 01:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

While you're at it, could you perhaps move it to Insurgency in Karadak-Gollak? The editor who opposed the move was blocked and there appears to be consensus to move it. Alltan (talk) 01:33, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Yeah... It shouldn't since the redirect on the 'k' version was going somewhere else. Only pagemovers and admins have the right to overwrite such single-edit redirect page when doing page move.

With regards to your second question, where is the consensus discussed on wiki? The editor who opposed the move was blocked for a separate reason. – robertsky (talk) 01:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

I have moved the article back to the original title per requested by Gugrak at WP:RM/TR as undiscussed move. From yours, Gugrak's, and GermanManFromFrankfurt's user contributions page, I am unable to find any discussion on wiki that has led to a consensus. There is a new discussion topic opened by GermanManFromFrankfurt in the article's talk page however. Let me know otherwise when the consensus is achieved on the article's talk page. – robertsky (talk) 04:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

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Ismail Strazimiri moved to draftspace

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Helpful guides

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Also, please note that Kanchov's stats were published across many pages, whereas you have cited the same page on countless articles. I corrected a few but it's hard to keep up. Best. --Local hero ^talk 04:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ismail Strazimiri

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Dine Maqellara moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Dine Maqellara, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:13, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Nazif Grazhdani moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Nazif Grazhdani, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:33, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Ihsan Muradi

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A tag has been placed on Ihsan Muradi requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Alltan. Thank you for your work on Bardino. User:AngusWOOF, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

I tagged this page R with possibilities in case it can be disambiguated for Bardino in the future to include towns and districts with this name, as well as people with the surname.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|AngusWOOF}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 16:59, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 7

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Žvan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Slavic.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:04, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Hazis Lila moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Hazis Lila, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 10:54, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Hasan Kaleshi moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Hasan Kaleshi, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 11:01, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Azem Marani moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Azem Marani, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 10:21, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

ANI - 19 July 2023

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. ElderZamzam (talk) 02:33, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Introduction to contentious topics

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Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Improper application of WP:DENY

You ought to be more careful and avoid labeling someone as a sock and making an improper application of WP:DENY just because you seem to disagree with their edits. This is disruptive and unhelpful. If you do really suspect they might be a sock, then you are welcome to ask for SPI. Good day. - ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 21:13, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Nazif Grazhdani

Hello, Alltan. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Nazif Grazhdani, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 15:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Hazis Lila

Hello, Alltan. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Hazis Lila, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 11:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Azem Marani

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Your draft article, Draft:Hasan Kaleshi

Hello, Alltan. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Hasan Kaleshi".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. ✗plicit 14:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

28/1/2024

Hello,There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Popular Punk (talk) 16:57, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Dine Maqellara

Hello, Alltan. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Dine Maqellara, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 14:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Dine Maqellara

Hello, Alltan. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Dine Maqellara".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. ✗plicit 14:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 25

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Jusuf Mehonjić, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Albanian.

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== Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.

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Setxkbmap (talk) 01:12, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

== Notice of neutral point of view noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. ==

. Setxkbmap (talk) 08:46, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

September 2024

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Krisitor (talk) 08:36, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

You keep reverting on the Kuči page, not only Petrović but also Djurdjev. This is the last warning before you get reported. Krisitor (talk) 08:38, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I have not broken 3RR, do not threaten me with reports. Petrovic is not a reliable source, neither is anyone who writes about conspiracies against Serbs. Alltan (talk) 08:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Just because you have not broken 3RR does not mean you're not engaged in edit warring, which you've been doing since the end of August on the Kuči page. And in addition to Petrović (1981), which is RS, you also deliberately removed sourced content referring to Djurdjev (1984). Krisitor (talk) 08:52, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

You can post your suggestion regarding Djurdjev on the TP, and we can see if needed to adding it back. But jumbling in both authors like that is not how you get something in an article. It's rather unprofessional. Alltan (talk) 08:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

It is up to you to explain why you are deleting references from one of the most recognised experts on the Montenegrin tribes, please do so. Krisitor (talk) 09:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

He is not, he might be in SANU. Alltan (talk) 09:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Cool. So, other than Albanian historians and linguists, are there any Serbian or Montenegrin historians that can be used in your opinion? Since none of them are by your liking. It does seem like you really want to preserve your "academic consensus" by not providing any other historians and linguists who go against that consensus of Akademia e Shkencave e Shqipërisë Setxkbmap (talk) 11:46, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

are you gonna turn my tp into a forum too now? don't comment here if it isn't for 3RR warnings Alltan (talk) 13:06, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I just asked :) Setxkbmap (talk) 13:13, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Ive had this discussion about this multiple times with you. Please leave at least my TP alone Alltan (talk) 13:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Your edit-warring activities on the Kuči page have been reported to an administrator: [24] Krisitor (talk) 13:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing from certain pages (Kuči (tribe)) for a period of 2 weeks for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Contentious topic warning regarding Eastern Europe and the Balkans

Hello Alltan and Krisitor,

This is a formal warning, which will be logged at WP:CTLOG/2024#Balkans_or_Eastern_Europe_(CT/EE) and can be formally appealed if you believe your behavior doesn't justify a warning (Wikipedia:Contentious topics § Appeals and amendments).

Further disruptive editing such as edit warring in the contentious topic area of Eastern Europe and the Balkans may, without further warning, lead to a block from editing, a topic ban from the area or an interaction ban from users you are persistently in disputes with.

You had been notified about these procedures and the requirement to "edit carefully and constructively" in this area in July 2023 (Alltan) / in July 2024 (Krisitor, with an apparently ironic/mocking response in the edit summary of the removal of the message).

Best regards,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)