User talk:Agravert/Ferdinand Gravert

This page was nominated for deletion on 1 March 2016. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page was nominated for deletion on 25 March 2016. The result of the discussion was No Consensus.

The claim that this man invented anti-fouling paint was add here by an IP with no references. https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Anti-fouling_paint&diff=prev&oldid=474299404 Given that the claim names "Captain Alex Gravert" the evident creator of this draft, it is at best WP:OR. I can't find a RS source that backs the claim, with nearly every source seeming to derive the claim from Wikipedia. Legacypac (talk) 09:27, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also looking for the reverse: who actually invented it and then this thing is entirely a hoax. That may be closer to impossible though. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For further reference

Source doesn't seem particularly reliable on this issue and may be parroting Wikipedia. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:51, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
1903 patent request by C.T.W. Piper suggests that antifouling paint was known enough to be easily patentable without much description. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Real nice research, great job. My guess is that our Ferdinand invented an antifouling paint, an achievement that was (perhaps unintentionally) inflated by his descendants. It does look like that book copied the claim from Anti-fouling paint, so props to Legacypac for removing it before it spreads any more. A2soup (talk) 06:59, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Another page describing a 1903 patent No. 736698 in August 1903 by a Alonzo Cuthriell which again shows that the idea was already normal. Patent history isn't clear either. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:00, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
US Patent office has no hits for any patents by a "Gravert". -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

He was supposedly German (or Danish), though. A2soup (talk) 07:16, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, ok. 1902 patent for "improvement in antifouling paints." Still not a new idea. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:24, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For sure, you've clearly shown the claim to be false. Incidentally, it looks like Alex Gravert (as an IP) slipped a factoid about his ancestor into another article as well, which I have removed, more for lack of notability than anything. A2soup (talk) 07:36, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I've proven it false. I just haven't proven its truth. It's possible that there exist German or Danish sources on the matter but I think this is basically a question like "who invented paint for ships" where the answer is no one "invented" it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:40, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh man, I completely missed the "the" in the original claim "the inventor of the anti-fouling paint was Ferdinand Gravert", which does change things. I thought it was saying he invented the first anti-fouling paint, which you showed was definitely wrong. But now I see it could just be a poorly-written or lacking-context attempt at saying he invented a certain kind of anti-fouling paint (and Alex G. is Chilean, after all, so English wouldn't be his first language). Either way, the claim doesn't belong here without sources, and I'm distressed to see how far it has spread on the web. Also, we should probably be having this conversation at Anti-fouling paint. A2soup (talk) 07:46, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

S. Doc. No. 165, 56th Cong., 1st Sess. (1899) notes that in 1847, the discovery of an antifouling paint with fair results resulted in the US Navy not selling all iron ships. No identification of founder. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
An anti-fouling paint was patented in 1865 by JN Brown and TD Clare. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:29, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I completely take the claim to be that Gravert invented anti-fouling paint - something that has been proven false. Legacypac (talk) 16:53, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This guy is doing sneaky self promotion

Legacypac (talk) 17:07, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Again, it hasn't been proven false, it's just mighty suspicious given the lack of evidence supporting the claim. The timeline with the Senate report and the various patents predate his alleged 1913 sale so if he had "invented" it, or even came up with a version of it that works, you'd think it would be mentioned but that is very US-centric though versus say someone claiming it was sold in Chile. As I said, it sounds like someone exaggerating the hell out of a claim. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 17:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to assume (though we can't prove) the guy developed some formula, but he did not invent the product as claimed. Your assessment is spot on. Legacypac (talk) 17:45, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]