User talk:Advocateofveganism

Welcome!

Hello, Advocateofveganism, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Brandon Downing, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may soon be deleted.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Uncle Dick (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Articles for deletion nomination of Brandon Downing

I have nominated Brandon Downing, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brandon Downing. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Uncle Dick (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See also links

I just wanted to welcome you, too, but someone else was faster than me. I removed the two additions of links to veganism from the "see also" section of the articles on Nonviolent resistance and Nonviolence. This is not because I have anything against veganism; to the contrary, I highly respect vegans, and I know that for Gandhi himself, it was connected with his ideal of nonviolence. I really hope that I didn't discourage you from further participating here. The reasons for both removals are different: In Nonviolence, we already have more than enough "see also" links, and there is no reason to duplicate links in that section that are already discussed in the text. (We should probably clean up some of the others, too.) In Nonviolent resistance, I honestly don't see a specific connection to the topic, beyond of that with NV in general. I'd be curious to read more about that. Do you have any references? — Sebastian 23:39, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for letting me know about this and why, Sebastian. Veganism has been referred to as nonviolent resistance because it is a refusal to participate in practices (and to support industries) that are exploitative, violent, and generally oppressive. The most published writer on this topic would probably be Gary Francione--he has several books ranging these subjects, and he has said, simply, that "veganism is nonviolence"--although I am personally more interested in some of the bloggers writing on this subject, including Ida Hammer at The Vegan Ideal (http://veganideal.org). I respect your decision to remove the links, but I also encourage you to learn more about the connections between the issues and movements. Thank you. Advocateofveganism (talk) 23:50, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks that's a nice reply! I do know a little bit more about this, which is why I just did these edits: [1], [2]. — Sebastian 00:14, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So, if I may abuse your talk page for a general discussion of the topic (this is normally frowned upon), I still don't see the connection between veganism and nonviolent resistance. I get my milk from a locally owned, small chain supermarket (with employees who have been happily working there for 10+ years, and who feel like family), who gets it from a small creamery in a nearby town, who gets it from organic farmers. I don't think I'm supporting anything exploitative. Or am I overlooking anything? — Sebastian 00:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sebastian, that would depend on your understanding of "exploitation," I suppose. In any milking situation that I can think of, a cow will be forcibly impregnated, have her child taken away from her, be confined in some yard or pen (even if it's bigger on family farms), and eventually be killed because she is no longer profitable to feed and milk. I interpret this situation as exploitative: the cow is used as a tool to get something (milk), and her own life and choice as an individual are ignored. Some people would interpret this as "the circle of life," interconnectedness, etc., but given the healthful, viable alternative (veganism), and given the emotional reaction many people experience when actually facing these facts (in vegan advocacy videos, for example: www.youcanhelpstopthis.com), that seems (to me) more like denial than anything else. Thank you for making those edits you linked to.Advocateofveganism (talk) 00:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, of course! I feel a bit like the educated woman in Animal, Vegetable, Miracle: A Year of Food Life, who was astonished that potatoes have a green part, too. It would be good if you could find a reliable source for the "many people ..." part. (Unfortunately, blogs don't count. Of course it is intuitively clear, and chances are that people will just accept the change without a reference, but it's the policy, and I'd rather be on the safe side.) — Sebastian 02:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]