User talk:Acad Ronin/Dano-Norwegian Navy

HDMS Najaden (1811)

Hi Acad - I think I have about finished Najaden, but it needs an experienced beady eye to check it. I have only just found the template for an Infobox. Can you have a look see, and advise if it looks OK. There may be some modern history to add - I think the wreck has been rediscovered recently, but I have not yet gone hunting down that road. Viking1808 (talk) 16:47, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

HDMS Lougen

Hi Acad As you suggested, I have been drafting something on the Lougen. The story seems rather thin to me, but perhaps you (or others) know a good bit more. How the ship finished up at the Scheldt I do not know, and it seems a long life before it was finally shipwrecked off Bremerhafen. Notes on the other two ships of the same name will probably best be moved before anything goes "live" . Can you have a look see? (I am still learning, but at least can find the Infobox now!) Viking1808 (talk) 17:13, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Viking1808, I have fiddled with the Lougen article. More will follow. As you may have noticed, I have moved the info on the Lougens to a disambig page, HDMS Lougen. Could you please check that page and add info on the fates of Lougen (1791) and (1941). Also, links to the naval museum's record cards would be good. I never did find the infobox template. I just cut-and-pasted from existing articles and changed the info. :-) Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Potted histories are now in place. If a larger page is called for, for Lougen (1791), we should note that the captain in 1801 when she was so successful in the Danish West Indies was Carl Wilhelm Jessen, later of the Battle of Zealand Point. Perhaps to get away from "the cult of the ship" (which seems to me to be a peculiarly British emphasis) there may be space for an expanded section in Scuttling for the Danish 1943 actions. Only since Christmas have I come across this bit of history in a new book of "Danish Naval Heroes" (in Danish). All a long way from 1808!!Viking1808 (talk) 21:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Viking1808, I saw the potted histories in HDMS Lougen. Thanks. When we (you? :-) ) get the {{HDMS Lougen (1791)|Lougen]] article we can move some of that into it. I have no problem with event-centered articles. I personally prefer to prepare ship-centered ones as I have, or have access to, useful reference books. I think the two approaches are useful complements - if I may use jargon - they represent diachronic and synchronic approaches. The neat thing about Wikipedia is that one can link to other stories, and one can hope that someone accessing one article will surf to other articles. As for drifting away from 1808, I find that happens all the time. An article will incorporate several red links, and that will lead me to try to turn the link blue, which will lead me further afield. For instance, the article on HSwMS Ulla Fersen (1789) developed that way. In time, I will probably get to doing an article on Childers. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Acad - I have taken HDMS Lougen (1805) public. Also, I have edited a bit in the first Lougen which the danes say was a brig, not a sloop. I have "met" Shem1805 on my original Wikipage ( HMS Falcon (1802) )and notice he has a infobox template on his talk page!! Viking1808 (talk) 15:49, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Lougen I versus HMS Arab

Hi Acad. Can you have a look at HMS Arab talk page, please, and see if you can add anything to the question of bias. I would suggest that if a page on the first Lougen is to be written, this episode needs an agreed more balanced description.

More out of period, I have rewritten the Danish 1943 section on scuttling, if such interests you.Viking1808 (talk) 14:45, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

HDMS Lougen (1791)

This note is to Acad Ronin, Corneredmouse and Shem(1805) I have started a page on the first HDMS Lougen on my Userpage. There are huge gaps still to be filled, but you may like to help fill them in! the Danes claim this was the first copper-clad ship - is this true, or just the first danish copper-clad ship? Viking1808 (talk) 17:42, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Acad Ronin. You have new messages at Shem1805's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Carl Wilhelm Jessen

Hi Acad - I need advice again! I started writing a page about Jessen, and then discovered a page in Danish on the danish Wikipedia. User:Viking1808/Carl Wilhelm Jessen is now my translation of that page, which I know has to be acknowledged to source but now I cannot find the instruction of how. I have added a few notes (as ref group=notes form) where information was not in the original, and boldened the dates, but otherwise have kept virtually the same formatting Can you help?
With editing help from the three of you (You, Shem and Corneredmouse) I think the page on the first Lougen is ready for launch. Any comment?Viking1808 (talk) 21:46, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Viking1808, I have done some light editing on Lougen and much more extensive editing on Jessen. For some languages there is a template to indicate translation from another Wikipedia, but I don't know the format, or even if one exists for Danish, so I did the next best thing. In the text on the Jessen article I used question marks (???) to designate places where I think there is a need for disambiguation. In particular, the article should name the relevant King of Denmark, and link to him. Hope this helps. The Lougen article is ready to go. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:39, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Your edits and help are always appreciated! Thank you! I have taken HDMS Lougen (1791) public, and will continue to polish Jessen (and the question marks) for a while yet. Viking1808 (talk) 11:06, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Viking1808, You might look at Battle of Silda. There there is a mention of the capture of "Gunboat No. 5". Could this be our Grinder? Also, after "Jessen", you might consider doing an article on HDMS Holstein, which became HMS Nassau. If you do the Danish part, I would add in the British history from 1801 on. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:53, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Grinder (Prise Nr 5) was not burned but recaptured (generobert) 5-7-1811, whereas Silda was the year earlier. Also, from the little we have gleaned, she should have been operating off northern Jutland, not north of Bergen. So, sadly, this is not our Grinder. Concerning other ships, I will see if there is anything on Nassau/Holsteen in Danish once, as you say, Jessen is out of the way.Viking1808 (talk) 19:32, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I had in the back of my mind. Clearly, there are too few Grinders in the records and too many No. 5s. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

HDMS Holsteen

Hi Acad - HDMS Holsteen pre-existed as a stub article, which you will see I have expanded (up to the Battle of Copenhagen) for her Danish service, as you suggested, but over to you for the post-1801 story.
I see you and Shem1805 are discussing the "proprieties" of using HDMS and similar terms for foreign warships. In my limited experience, the danes seem to use the phrase Orlogskib Holsteen rather than HDMS (which would be the same letters for the danish - Hans Dansk Majestæts Skib - if it was used in danish) The final letters "EN" on many Danish ships names is the word "THE" if in English. I translate Orlogskib as Warship. A merchant vessel would usually be a "kofardiskib". I do not think linguistics is much to do with the question, but rather one of agreed useage.But who agrees?
Amusingly, there has been quite a discussion going in Danish website on how to write ships' names eg Victory, VICTORY, Victory, VICTORY without much agreement.
I think my next task will be to prepare an article on Grinder with all that we have, then simply keep it tucked away for when (not if) the British fog clears Viking1808 (talk) 17:41, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Viking1808, Thanks for the work on Holsteen. As you can see, I have built out the article. I still have a little more to add but it is already in pretty good shape. Good luck with Grinder. I am not holding my breath waiting for the fog to lift. The more I work on these articles, the more I realize that when things happened far from London they did not necessarily get into Admiralty records. I recently discovered that the British took into service the five American gunboats that they captured at the Battle of Lake Borgne. This did not get into Admiralty records, so Winfield doesn't have them. Grinder may be something similar. I suspect that she was a Danish gunboat captured in Danish waters or the Baltic and never notified to London. The biggest mystery is not that though, it is who the heck was Lieutenant Esther? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:58, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Skibsted

Hi Acad

Work in progress at User:Viking1808/Peter Nicoly Skibsted contains the recent translation from Topsøe and other accumulated notes. It still needs a lot of polishing, plus references and links, but the information is there. Use the information if you wish. I will ask for comments later when I have edited in references. I am also changing the translation of "Premierlieutenant" from First Lieutenant - which has another meaning in English - to senior lieutenant (Comments?)Viking1808 (talk) 08:52, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Acad - I think I have taken the Skibsted article as far as I can. Do you have any comments (when you return from holiday) before I send it public? Viking1808 (talk) 14:13, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Acad - Many thanks for your inputs to the Skibsted article, which you will have noticed has been "reviewed" by Shem1805.

I notice your new contribution to Battle of Copenhagen (1807) but this is another case of foreign ships' names becoming mangled before being reported in the London Gazette!! This has already been picked up by others at the Copenhagen discussion page, as you will quickly see. Thanks again. Viking1808 (talk) 20:03, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

I knew the Danish name and should have referenced it as well in the article. The problem is, the English records, and not just the London Gazette, carry her name as Fredrickscoarn, so if you want to find her in the Naval database, Phillips, or the Naval Chronicle, you need the english name, not the Danish. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:23, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Acad - the above has led me to two native Danish speakers on the English wiki - Necesary Evil and Saddhiyama--Saddhiyama - the first is " very active on naval articles." and has just translated HMS Falcon (1802) for Danish WikiHMS Falcon (1802). Thoughts? Viking1808 (talk) 19:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

You might contact them and encourage them to do articles in the English wikipedia on the Danish vessels involved in the 1801-1814 war. For instance, if either was to do an article on the Fredrickscoarn I could then add the English history. Same with Fredericksteen. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Will do! Can you produce a short list for him to choose from, if he is interested! Meanwhile N Evil is working on a Grinder translation here.(Never mind the 1802 in the title - that is a carry over from HMS Falcon and will get swept up before publication.)Viking1808 (talk) 15:57, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

For a start: HDMS Prins Christian Frederik, Frederiksværn (Fredrickscoarn), and Fredericksteen (Frederickstein). Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Another Danish Officer

Hi A.R. - User:Viking1808/Jørgen Conrad de Falsen is a new article I am mulling over, and would appreciate your input if time allows. Viking1808 (talk) 21:01, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Steen Andersen Bille

Hi! Could you please look at the new section Steen Andersen Bille on my talk page. You may be able to help me! Viking1808 (talk) 16:10, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Lyngør Battle bicentenial

Hi Acad - I see you have been busy on other matters for a while, but this should be of interest
A Norwegian article reports on a suggested docudrama to celebrate the bicentenial in July 2012 using the replica gunboat that plies Lyngør waters and a full rigged sailing ship as a stand-in Sørlandet for Dictator. If we knew where "33-årige skotten James Pettison Stewart som kaptein" originated from in Scotland there could be a connection to be made!Viking1808 (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I did a quick google and it is clear that his origins are obscure. No certain date of birth, no info on his ancestry or his place of birth. On a semi-related note, could you look at HMS Salorman (1808) and see if there is anything you can add re her Danish service. I have what I could get from the Orlogsmuseet, but perhaps there is another tidbit or two that one might add. Regards,Acad Ronin (talk) 17:16, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Søormen - "the sea worm" - I will have a look see!Viking1808 (talk) 19:30, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

"Sea serpent" sounds so much better than "Sea worm". :-) Thanks, and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Gunboats

Hi Acad - Thanks for your various comments on Falsens page. Even if I do not respond to each one individually, they are appreciated and may eventually lead to something worthwhile. Feel free to lift any section you can run with! Regards Viking1808 (talk) 18:22, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Danes recapture Grinder

Not history!! The article on HMS Grinder is now translated and launched on Danish wikipedia as http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat_Grinder , thanks to Necessary Evil. I have invited him to contact you if he is interested in chasing more Danish ships taken by the British. I hope this proves useful. Viking1808 (talk) 10:13, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

That's kind of cool. Hester and Grinder are achieving a certain immortality far in excess of their historical importance. Anyway, I look forward to hearing from Necessary Evil. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 10:52, 25 July 2011 (UTC)