User talk:68.129.197.221

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October 2022

Welcome to Wikipedia. Editors are expected to treat each other with respect and civility. On this encyclopedia project, editors assume good faith while interacting with other editors, which you did not appear to do at Talk:Alexander Technique. Here is Wikipedia's welcome page, and it is hoped that you will assume the good faith of other editors and continue to help us improve Wikipedia! Thank you very much! --Hipal (talk) 19:57, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I do assume good faith and I'm thankful to editors, my suspicion of Roxy the dog's bias was based on the edit history on the page and may indeed be fallacious. In any case I hope I brought attention for the need to revise this wiki and provided good sources for other editors to complete the revisions. Thanks. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 02:44, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the civil response. Your making accusations against me for apparently nothing at all shows otherwise.[1] Likewise, your other comments to other editors continue to be problematic. [2][3][4] --Hipal (talk) 15:25, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The responses from Roxy the dog are not helpful but obstructive to making any progress improving the wiki. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:28, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[5][6][7][8] --Hipal (talk) 16:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[9]--Hipal (talk) 00:45, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[10] a clear misrepresentation of [11] --Hipal (talk) 16:44, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I see you're building a case against me here, any reason you're more concerned with that than fixing up the Alexander Technique wiki? I see you were one of the original editors to push for this wiki to be labeled alternative medicine, are those related? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:41, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You're creating the situation. I'm just documenting it to minimize any problems in taking action if it is needed.

Please stop misrepresenting my position concerning the article content. I didn't "push" for anything besides following policies and the use of high-quality references. --Hipal (talk) 03:37, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pushing for use of high-quality references and getting quite a bit of push back. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 13:50, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What does that statement have to do with your behavior? --Hipal (talk) 16:08, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop

Please do not delete or edit legitimate talk page comments. Such edits are disruptive, and may appear to other editors to be vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.[12][13][14]] --Hipal (talk) 15:44, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I messed it up by mistake and couldn't fix it.Sorry 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see at least three times. That's incredibly sloppy at least. Please be extremely careful going forward. --Hipal (talk) 15:53, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, this appears blatant: [15] --Hipal (talk) 16:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

? I don't know how the formatting works and I was trying to make it look normal, just kept getting worse so prob best to undo... 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:07, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've cleaned it up best I could after the first case I was able to spot, and have noted it on the article talk page. There's some repetition now, due to your wanting to rewrite your comments after they had been responded to. Please review WP:TALK. In general, it's simplest to just write new comments rather than editing past comments if there are already responses to them. --Hipal (talk) 16:20, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to only edit when there were mistakes for example a bad URL in one of the last ones. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:44, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AT in Education Section Addition

oops put in wrong place lol I'm sleepy*

This is a partial list of schools in which AmSAT members are teaching the Alexander Technique, either in group classes or private lessons which can be confirmed by viewing course listings at each school with the master list located at the URL below. This should serve as evidence that the AT is not a fringe pseudoscientific alternative medicine practice but an education method. Please take note of this distinction editors.

Academy of Art University, San Francisco, CA American Academy of Dramatic Arts, New York, NY American Academy of Dramatic Arts, Los Angeles, CA American Conservatory Theatre, San Francisco, CA American Musical and Dramatic Academy, Los Angeles, CA Appalachian State University, Hayes School of Music, and Theater and Dance, Boone, North Carolina Arcadia University, Glenside, Pennsylvania Arizona State University, Tempe, Arizona Bard College Conservatory of Music, Vocal Arts Program, Annandale-on-Hudson, New York Barnard College, New York, New York Berkeley Rep School of Theater, Berkeley, California Boston University, Boston, Massachusetts Brooklyn College, Conservatory of Music, Brooklyn, New York Brooklyn College, MFA Theater Program Brown University/Trinity Repertory Company, Providence, RI California Institute of the Arts, Santa Clarita, California California Jazz Conservatory, Berkeley, California California State University, Fullerton, Fullerton, California California State University, Northridge, Northridge, California Carnegie Mellon University, Schools of Drama, Music, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Capilano University, Theatre Department, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Catholic University, Washington, DC Chapman University, Conservatory of Music, Orange, California Circle in the Square Theater School, New York, New York Coe College, Cedar Rapids, Iowa Concordia Academy, Roseville, Minnesota Conservatory of Music of Puerto Rico, San Juan, Puerto Rico Cornish College for the Arts, Seattle, Washington Curtis Institute of Music, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Denver University, Lamont School of Music, Denver, Colorado DePaul University School of Music, Chicago, Illinois DePaul University, Theater School, Chicago, Illinois Eastman School of Music, Rochester, New York Eureka College, Eureka, Illinois George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia George Fox University, Newberg, Oregon Hampden-Sydney College, Hampden Sydney, Virginia Henderson State University, Arkadelphia, Arkansas Hoff-Barthelson Music School, Scarsdale, New York Howard Fine Acting Studio, Los Angeles, California Illinois State University, Normal, Illinois Indiana University Jacobs School of Music, Bloomington, Indiana Interlochen Arts Academy, Interlochen, Michigan The Juilliard School, New York, New York Lee Strasberg Theatre & Film Institute, West Hollywood, CA Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon Long Island University, Brooklyn and Brookville, New York Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles, California Manhattan School of Music, New York, New York Marylhurst University, Marylhurst, Oregon Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts, North Adams, Massachusetts McNally Smith College of Music, St. Paul, Minnesota Michigan State University, College of Music, East Lansing, Michigan The Neighborhood Playhouse School of the Theater, New York, New York New England Conservatory, Boston, Massachusetts The New School, Mannes School of Music, New York, New York New World Symphony, Miami, Florida New York University Tisch School of the Arts,New York, New York New York University Steinhardt School of Education, New York, New York New York Youth Symphony, New York, New York Northwestern University, Bienen School of Music, Evanston, Illinois Odyssey Theater Ensemble Pace School of Performing Arts, New York, New York Pacific Conservatory of the Performing Arts, Santa Maria, California Pig Iron School for Advanced Performance Training, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Point Park University, Conservatory of Performing Arts, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Ponoma College, Claremont, California Queens College, Aaron Copland School of Music, Flushing, New York Rhode Island College, Providence, Rhode Island Rutgers University, Rutgers, New Jersey San Francisco Conservatory of Music, San Francisco, California San Francisco State University, San Francisco, CA Shakespeare Academy @ Stratford, Stratford, Connecticut Shakespeare Theater, Washington, DC State University of New York, Broome Community College, Binghamton, NY State University of New York at Potsdam, Department of Theater and Dance, Potsdam, New York Stella Adler Academy of Acting, Los Angeles, California Stetson University, DeLand, Florida Studio Theater, Washington, DC Syracuse University College of Music, Syracuse, New York Temple University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Theatre, Musical Theatre and Music Towson University, Towson, Maryland Tulsa Community College, Tulsa, Oklahoma University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, Alabama University of California, School of Theater, Film and Television, Los Angeles, California University of California, Herb Alpert School of Music, Los Angeles, California University of California, San Diego, California University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music, Cincinnati, Ohio University of Colorado Boulder, Boulder, Colorado University of Denver, Lamont School of Music, Denver, Colorado University of Idaho Lionel Hampton School of Music & the Department of Movement Sciences Dance Program, Moscow Idaho University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, Illinois University of Maryland, Baltimore County, Baltimore, Maryland University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland University of Michigan, School of Music, Theatre and Dance, Ann Arbor, Michigan University of Minnesota, School of Music, Minneapolis, Minnesota University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, New Mexico University of North Carolina School of the Arts, School of Drama, Winston-Salem, North Carolina University of North Texas, College of Music, Denton, Texas University of San Diego/Old Globe Theater, San Diego, California University of Southern California, School of Dramatic Arts, Los Angeles, California University of Tennessee, Knoxville, Tennessee University of Utah, School of Dance, Salt Lake City, Utah University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin Walnut Hill School of the Arts, Natick, Massachusetts Washington University in St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri Waterfront Playhouse and Conservatory, Berkeley, California Webster University, Webster Groves, Missouri West Valley College, Saratoga , California Westminster Choir College, Princeton, New Jersey William Esper Acting Studio, New York, New York Xavier University, Cincinnati, Ohio Yale School of Drama, New Haven, Connecticut

https://www.amsatonline.org/aws/AMSAT/pt/sp/educational_institutions 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:20, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. [16][17][18] --Hipal (talk) 16:20, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not gonna lie, that's some pretty weak evidence... But sure I won't edit war. I never did a back and forth more than once Hipal. Stretching to get me banned? Want to give some input on how the whole wiki is plagiarized work from Ernst? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 01:14, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Best you not edit the article further.

And stop doing anything remotely like [19].

Be careful not to WP:CANVAS, as [20] appears to be. --Hipal (talk) 16:16, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How do you get something added to a related wikiproject? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Enough

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you make personal attacks on other people. Comment on content, not on fellow editors. [21] --Hipal (talk) 17:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's[22] enough for a block. You don't appear able to work with other editors to improve this encyclopedia. --Hipal (talk) 02:32, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[23][24][25] --Hipal (talk) 17:24, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[26] [27] --Hipal (talk) 19:39, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[28] continued edit-warring --Hipal (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[29][30][31][32][33] --Hipal (talk) 16:02, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for documenting my crusade to bring balance to the POV of this article instead of the current skeptical circle jerk. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:11, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:NOTHERE, WP:TENDENTIOUS, WP:DISRUPTIVE. --Hipal (talk) 16:22, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[34] --Hipal (talk) 16:22, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[35][36][37][38] --Hipal (talk) 17:53, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[39] more edit warring --Hipal (talk) 17:59, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[40] [41][42][43][44] --Hipal (talk) 18:07, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[45][46][47] --Hipal (talk) 23:50, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
[48][49] --Hipal (talk) 17:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy notice - ANEW

Your editing is being discussed at WP:ANEW. --Hipal (talk) 21:01, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hope they take a look at the dog too:

Everything works for back pain. Most things work far far better than AT for back pain. - Roxy the dog 18:30, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply] 68.129.197.221 (talk) 02:16, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like no violation, nice try. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 15:24, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy notice - sanctions for articles related to alternative medicine

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in complementary and alternative medicine. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

To opt out of receiving messages like this one, place {{Ds/aware}} on your user talk page and specify in the template the topic areas that you would like to opt out of alerts about. For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

--Hipal (talk) 16:24, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

LOL What about roxy the dog's and bon courage's obsession with editing articles related to alternative medicine to make POV more negative; double standards much? 68.129.197.221 (talk) 16:31, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 2022

Anonymous users from this IP address have been blocked from editing from certain pages (Alexander technique) for a period of 3 months for ondoing disruption, edit warring, insertion of unverified content, promotional POV editing.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. Drmies (talk) 17:52, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

68.129.197.221 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Admins, the Alexander Technique wiki is being attacked by overzealous members of wiki project skepticism; it's 5 vs 1 and the 5 know nothing about the subject of the wiki beyond a superficial association with alternative medicine which has led them to jump to the conclusion AT is pseudoscience and they are misbehaving accordingly by vandalizing the wiki 68.129.197.221 (talk) 20:34, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

See WP:NOTTHEM. 331dot (talk) 20:42, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

68.129.197.221 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I apologize for misbehaving, it was provoked. I'm accused of ongoing disruption (fair enough but I was only disrupting the skeptical vandalism), edit warring (from skeptical vandals), insertion of unverified content (this is not true you can see all my edits are well cited), promotional POV editing (this is also a blatant lie and the editors in question who have insisted I be banned have made the POV so negative that neutral seems promotional by comparison 68.129.197.221 (talk) 20:50, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

See WP:NOTTHEM. All you are doing here is explaining why your block should be extended site-wide. Yamla (talk) 20:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Anonymous users from this IP address have been blocked temporarily from editing from certain pages (Alexander technique and Talk:Alexander Technique) for abuse of editing privileges.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. Drmies (talk) 01:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

68.129.197.221 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Please specify duration of block and reasoning for ban from the talk page; I've provided well cited material for use by editors to improve the wiki. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 13:20, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

As Yamla says, you are partially blocked for 3 months, and the reason is edits such as this where you post a wall of text unsuitable for an encyclopedia. PhilKnight (talk) 14:01, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

The duration of the block is three months. This can clearly be seen in your block log and was specified above. --Yamla (talk) 13:38, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

68.129.197.221 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

"where you post a wall of text unsuitable for an encyclopedia" If admin is not aware, AT is a complicated topic. A comprehensive neurophysiological model theory of biological mechanisms of action underlying the AT’s effects has only recently been proposed by Cacciatore et al. (2020). Anything short of a wall of text and citations would be insufficient to explain the AT with the restrictions on MED:RS in place on the article as it's marked for harassment by wikiproject skepticism. This was/is the talk page not the wiki we're referring to. One complication is AT has non-medical uses in performing arts; these sources and information was held to MED:RS standards even though have have nothing to do with MED:RS. There seems to be confusion in what AT is from editors causing issues between editors. The block was not necessary to prevent damage or disruption, a simple request to make my contribution into smaller bits would have sufficed. See below section for "wall of text" 68.129.197.221 (talk) 14:31, 11 December 2022 (UTC) [reply]

Decline reason:

" The evidence before the court is incontrovertible; there's no need for the jury to retire. Since, my friend, you have exposed your deepest fears, I sentence you to be exposed before your peers ... TEAR DOWN THE WALL!! TEAR DOWN THE WALL!! TEAR DOWN THE WALL!!". And I'm revoking your talk page access as well, extending the block three more months and making it sitewide. It's long past clear that you don't really care about getting unblocked; you're a big disgrace, posting this crap all over the place. So NO ... ONE ... WILL ... UN ... BLOCK YOU!!! boom-boom-CLAP, boom-boom-CLAP — Daniel Case (talk) 07:16, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Your ability to edit this talk page has been revoked as an administrator has identified your talk page edits as inappropriate and/or disruptive.

(block log • active blocks • global blocks • autoblocks • contribs • deleted contribs • abuse filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, you should read the guide to appealing blocks, then contact administrators by submitting a request to the Unblock Ticket Request System.
Please note that there could be appeals to the unblock ticket request system that have been declined leading to the post of this notice.

Daniel Case (talk) 07:22, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any indicators that you're going to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia if unblocked.

You've accused other editors, and admins of vandalism repeatedly without actual evidence of real vadalism as defined at WP:VANDALISM: [50] [51] [52] [53] [54]
You've edited others comments to change their meaning (See: WP:TPO): [55]
You constantly repost the same wall of text on talkpages, breaching the 3 Revert Rule: [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61]

I'm not here to debate the merits of AT. I don't know anything about it, nor do I care one way or the other. I'm trying to evaluate if unblocking you will be a net positive to the project. Frankly, I can see a moderately strong argument for expanding your block to cover Talk:Alexander Technique, or to be sitewide at this point.

I will leave your unblock request open for another administrator to review. SQL ^{Query Me!} 18:29, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure how to reply to this thread exactly so here it goes: as for 55 I believe the original meaning still stands depending on the POV. I own my own misbehavior and will cut it out. I do request that the merits of the 'wall of text' be evaluated on more than the quantity of it. It's been incredibly frustrating to say the least having editors misuse the MEDS:RS when trying to edit the performing arts sections of the Wiki and also the use of double standards with systematic reviews and 1st party sources which are used as evidence against but not for. In my weeks of attempting to edit this wiki I have yet to find an editor that wishes to improve it. Instead editors seem focused on fitting it into the label of fringe and alternative medicine which is a stretch. As to the 3 revert rule, this was the talk page and editors frankly had no business reverting my new section there (except that it included well cited sections they don't want to add because of their documented commitment to skepticism). Also the last instance cited is my own talk page... Really? As for accusations of vandalism, I realize this is taken seriously and hope one takes a look at the edit history to see a string of edits that do nothing to improve the wiki but instead removed huge portions of the article making it mostly incomprehensible and then marking the remainder as incomprehensible. Take a look at the wiki yourself admins and see what a messy state it's in. This was done by the editors I've accused, as no edit I've made was not reverted by the same editors in question. Long story short, the wiki is worse than it was when I first tried to improve it and not one of my edits stand. The wiki looks vandalized when you read it and I wasn't the vandal. In fact many times I've tried to clarify wording to closer match the source material certain wikiproject skepticism associated editors insisted upon added negative POV even when it departs further from the source. Often vandalism like edits were made after attempts to improve the wiki that one can only assume were made for the purpose of retaliation for edits contrary to skeptical editors bias -68

Stop

I don't know what the heck you think you are doing here on this talk page, but knock it off. It's deeply inappropriate. --Yamla (talk) 20:33, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

?? I was trying to reply to the thread and I want the source material to be available to editors to add to the wiki. I can see HotMess is still at it. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 21:54, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's deeply inappropriate. You are blocked from those pages. Knock it off. Until you successfully contest your block, those pages are no longer your concern. --Yamla (talk) 21:55, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

cur prev 19:58, 11 December 2022‎ Rp2006 talk contribs‎ 18,482 bytes −160‎ Replaced with more applicable sidebar undo

68.129.197.221 (talk) 21:56, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This continued vandalism is what's concerning... I'm out. 68.129.197.221 (talk) 21:56, 11 December 2022 (UT

Yamla, Daniel Case, I dropped similar blocks (well, minus the TPA block) on User talk:141.157.200.57 and User talk:173.54.182.4. Drmies (talk) 01:43, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have extended those blocks to the same length of six months as this one. Daniel Case (talk) 01:59, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, all. Yeesh. --Yamla (talk) 09:32, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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