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RfC draft

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Request for Comment on sorting of UK churches in categories in English Wikipedia

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How should UK churches be sorted in categories in en.wiki? For background, including links to previous inconclusive discussions, please see the section above. Note that articles on UK churches have a wide variety of title formats. Consider St Chad's Church, Far Headingley, but also St Mark's Church, Woodhouse, Leeds, Church of St Thomas the Apostle, Killinghall, Parish church of St Giles, St Giles in the Wood, Bethel Chapel, Ynysybwl, Lenton Methodist Church, The Holy Sepulchre, Northampton, Church of Christ the King, Bloomsbury, Mount St Mary's Church, Leeds, Leeds Minster. (It is of course possible that some of these should have other article titles).

The practice of expanding "St" or "St." to "Saint" is mandated by WP:SORTKEY and appears uncontroversial, so "Sort by article title" or similar, in this RfC, can be taken to mean "Sort by title with "St" expanded to "Saint" (and with a leading "The" removed in rare cases)".

The only existing guidance on sortkeys appears to be that at WP:SORTKEY, which includes the option that "Systematic sort keys are also used in other categories where the logical sort order is not alphabetical (for example, individual month articles in year categories such as Category:2004 use sort keys like "*2004-04" for April). Again, such systems must be used consistently within a category.". There is no one Wikiproject dedicated to UK churches, though they come within the interests of many Wikiprojects: Christianity and its denominational subprojects; Architecture; United Kingdom; and UK geography and its country, county or regional subprojects. Categories is also relevant. There seems no obvious place to record the consensus with which this RfC will close, but an archived RfC lodged in the wiki-memory of a variety of editors will be useful. If agreement can be reached, we can (a) move towards consistent sorting within categories and (b) avoid conflict between editors and time wasted in changing DEFAULTSORTs.

Discussion

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Please express your preference within each of the three groups of options below:

1: How should UK church articles sort in "UK church" categories (where all or almost all of the entries are UK churches), eg Category:Grade II* listed churches in West Yorkshire?

1A: By article title, eg "Saint Chad's Church, Far Headingley"
1B: By location, eg "Far Headingley, Saint Chad's Church"
1C: By dedication, eg "Chad, Far Headingley"

2: How should UK church articles sort in other categories, eg Category:Headingley?

2A: By article title, eg "Saint Chad's Church, Far Headingley"
2B: By location, eg "Far Headingley, Saint Chad's Church"
2C: By dedication, eg "Chad, Far Headingley"

3: What should the DEFAULTSORT be for a UK church article

3A: By article title, eg "Saint Chad's Church, Far Headingley"
3B: By location, eg "Far Headingley, Saint Chad's Church"
3C: By dedication, eg "Chad, Far Headingley"

Quick ref

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Boilerplate

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  • First user comment for stubsorting:

Adding stub tags where there's already a categorised stub tag

Hi, Please don't add {{tl|stub}} to articles like [[xxxxx]] when they already have categorised stub tags - it just wastes the time of people at [[WP:STUBSORT]]. If you feel the article needs expanding, Wikifying, etc there are plenty of [[WP:Template_messages/Cleanup|other templates]] you can use. Thanks, ~~~~

  • Second user comment:

Adding stub tags to non-stub article Hi, Please don't add {{tl|stub}} to articles like [[xxxxxx]] which are substantially more than a stub article (described at [[WP:STUB]] as "A stub is an article containing only a few sentences of text" ) - it just wastes the time of people at [[WP:STUBSORT]]. If you feel the article needs expanding, Wikifying, etc there are plenty of [[WP:Template_messages/Cleanup|other templates]] you can use. Thanks, ~~~~

  • Third user comment:

== Stub tags at end, please==

Hi, Please add stub tags at the end of articles, not at the beginning as you did for [[xxxxx]] - it makes life easier for people doing [[WP:WSS|stub-sorting]]. See [[WP:STUB]] which says "By convention this is placed at the end of the article, after the External links section, any navigation templates, and the category tags, so that the stub category will appear last." Thanks, ~~~~


  • To include in some dab pages:

;See also

*{{lookfrom|xxxx}}

<ref name="ray-leeds">{{cite web|url=http://www.leighrayment.com/commons/Lcommons1.htm|title=House of Commons constituencies beginnng with "L": Leeds|work=Leigh Rayment's Peerage Page|accessdate=2008-07-17}}</ref>


<ref name="gilleghan">{{cite book|last=Gilleghan|first=John|title=Leeds: A to Z of local history|publisher=Kingsway Press|date=2001|pages=166-167|chapter=Marshall, John|isbn=0951919431}}</ref>


<ref name="ray-bev">{{cite web|url=http://www.leighrayment.com/commons/Bcommons3.htm|title=House of Commons constituencies beginnng with "B": Beverley|work=Leigh Rayment's Peerage Page|accessdate=2008-07-17}}</ref>


<ref name="ray-carl">{{cite web|url=http://www.leighrayment.com/commons/Ccommons2.htm|title=House of Commons constituencies beginnng with "C": Carlisle (Cumberland)|work=Leigh Rayment's Peerage Page|accessdate=2008-07-17}}</ref>

<ref name="ray-cumbe">{{cite web|url=http://www.leighrayment.com/commons/Ccommons6.htm|title=House of Commons constituencies beginnng with "C": Cumberland East|work=Leigh Rayment's Peerage Page|accessdate=2008-07-17}}</ref>

  • Cite Book template:

{{cite book | last = | first = | authorlink = | coauthors = | editor = | others = | title = | origdate = | origyear = | origmonth = | url = | format = | accessdate = | accessyear = | accessmonth = | edition = | series = | date = | year = | month = | publisher = | location = | language = | isbn = | oclc = | doi = | id = | pages = | chapter = | chapterurl = | quote = | ref = }}

  • Cite web template:

{{cite web | last = | first = | authorlink = | coauthors = | title = | work = | publisher = | date = | url = | format = | doi = | accessdate = }}


{{coord|50|49|46|N|3|46|30|W|display=title}} 50°49′46″N 3°46′30″W / 50.82944°N 3.77500°W / 50.82944; -3.77500


  • {{sort|Calf|[[The Calf]]}} sort key for entry in sortable table

Dabs and redirects

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Parameters

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If a general dab page includes more than one item in any of the above classes, then {{disambig}} should still be used, but parameters can be added in order to place the page additionally into the above categories. Parameters are as follows (they may also be combined, in any order):

Interesting

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Standard order of end sections

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Works (ie publications by subject of article)
See also
Notes
References
Further reading
External links
Succession boxes or Nav boxes
Categories
Stub templates
Interwiki links

Typo work

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Starting again, inspired by Giraffedata (talk · contribs):

  • "is been": 16:26, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "should of": 16:26, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "could of": 16:44, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "would of": only a couple of typos, rather than misuses, to fix- far fewer mistakes than I'd expected 16:44, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "of been": a few changes; next time add "sort of been" and "kind of been" to exclusions. 16:53, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "must of" - quite a lot of intended "most of". 17:07, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "are been" 18:06, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Older

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WP:TYPO

  • is been - done again 08:32, 5 September 2009 (UTC) - done again 23:42, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
"is been" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • was been - done again 16:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (2 OK) - 13:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
"was been" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • are been 16:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (1 OK), 14:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
"are been" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • were been - 16:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)(6 OK), 14:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
"were been" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • could of - 16:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (23 OK - "as much as he could of his father's property" etc)
"could of" -intitle:User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from -could-of-necessity -could-of-course -could-of-the site:wiki.riteme.site
  • would of - 17:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (12 OK), 14:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
"would of" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from -would-of-necessity -would-of-course site:wiki.riteme.site -would-of-itself -would-of-himself -would-of-herself -sic
  • might of 17:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (58 OK - "the great might of..." etc), 14:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
"might of" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from -the-might -might-of-course -combined-might -military-might -armoured-might -might-of-the -full-might -expanding-might site:wiki.riteme.site
  • should of 17:20, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (6 OK, 2 queried), 14:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC) - again 23:42, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
"should of" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from -should-of-necessity -should-of-course site:wiki.riteme.site
  • must of 17:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (16 OK - grape must etc)
"must of" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from -must-of-necessity -must-of-course site:wiki.riteme.site

All done, 09:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

  • "of been" done, 23:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC); 17:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (21 OK)
"of been" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • "to of" done 14:04, 9 January 2008 (UTC); 18:16, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (100+ OK - possibly not worthwhile looking, except for the common "due to of")
"to of" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • "has went" done 13:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC), 18:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (1 OK)
"has went" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • "had went" done 17:48, 14 January 2008 (UTC), 18:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (10 OK)
"had went" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site
  • "be been"] done 14:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC), 18:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC) (5 OK)
"be been" -inurl:wiki-User -intitle:Talk -inurl:wiki-Wikipedia -inurl:wiki-WP -redirected-from site:wiki.riteme.site

All done again, using AWB, PamD (talk) 15:51, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Progress

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All done, except "to of" and "might of", PamD (talk) 10:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

"would of" PamD (talk) 14:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

All ("might of" not worthwhile - none found to change) PamD (talk) 12:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

"is been" and "was been" PamD (talk) 15:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


New comment to use: <!-- OK here: don't correct it--> PamD (talk) 11:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC): Done: all except "to of", and comment added to cases where it's OK. "is been" done PamD (talk) 08:17, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

  • {{sic|hide=y|is b|een}} - done, 27 may 2015 - inspired by Giraffedata, it's time I did a bit more of this.
  • {{not a typo|shoul|d of}} - even better template. "should of " and "would of " done. 27 may 2015

To think about writing/doing

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Leeds - revise/reduce Transport section

Holy Trinity, St John's, Mill Hill Chapel, Adel church?

Leeds Town Hall - expand. Pevsner etc. Get to GA eventually?

More re St Aidans mosaic

Grade I listed buildings in Leeds not in WP: Bardsey parish church, St Oswalds church Garforth, Holy Trinity, St Mary Whitkirk, St George (Gt George Street), Temple Mill (in WP as Temple Works, no redirect), St Oswalds church Guiseley

Henry Dorling

expand stubs created to resolve red links from Leeds Country Way:

Golden Acre Park
Meanwood Valley Trail
Ebor Way
Wike
Mickletown
Woodkirk
Cockersdale

Upgrade Temple Newsam - aim at GA? FA???

Upgrade Roundhay Park?

Format user page

Karl J / Armed Man - tidy, add re Armouries

List of long distance paths in UK - upgrade

Farmer & Brindley, architectural sculptors

User:Dsp13#Women_prominent_in_ODNB_lacking_individual_Wikipedia_articles

infobox UK place

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Metro county example {{Infobox UK place | |country = England |map_type= West Yorkshire |official_name= Sometown |latitude = x |longitude = x |population= x (2001 Census) |metropolitan_borough= [[City of Leeds]] |metropolitan_county= [[West Yorkshire]] |region = Yorkshire and The Humber |constituency_westminster= [[Somewhere (UK Parliament constituency)|Somewhere]] |post_town= LEEDS |postcode_district= LSn |postcode_area= LS |dial_code= 0113 |os_grid_reference= AAnnnnnn }}

Wrathmell - Leeds

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Wrathmell, Susan (2005). Leeds. Pevsner architectural guides. Yale U.P. ISBN 0300107366. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

{{cite book | last = Wrathmell| first = Susan| coauthors = John Minnis| title = Leeds| series = Pevsner architectural guides| date = 2005| publisher = Yale U.P.|isbn = 0300107366| pages =| chapter = | quote = | ref = }}

A-Z TOC

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Contents: Top - 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

LDPs in table?

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Path Km Miles Endpoints Country Region Status Established Notes website
Cleveland Way 177 110 Helmsley, Filey England Yorkshire and the Humber National Trail 1969 Around the North York Moors National Park [1]
Leeds Country Way 99 62 Circular around Leeds England Yorkshire and the Humber Waymarked 1980s Maintained by Leeds City Council; never more than 7 miles from centre of Leeds [2]

AE

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Evidence presented by PamD

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Arbcom's restriction on EC is over-wide

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The restriction on EC's editing was drawn so widely that it leaves scope for sanctions which are within the letter of the law but not, I suggest, within the spirit of what the sanctions hoped to achieve. As a parallel, the BBC Radio 4 game show Just a Minute requires speakers to avoid "Hesitation, Deviation or Repetition", so that technically the words "The trouble with Wikipedia is the way ..." would be sanctionable, in the game, as repeating the word "the". In the interests of the flow, and entertainment value, of the show, there is a recognition that "that sort of repetition doesn't count". A restriction allowing an admin to interpret EC's self-defence comments as worthy of a month's block is over-tightly drawn. ArbCom should consider revising its sanctions on EC; failing this, any blocks under these very wide sanctions should be decided on by a wider group than a single admin.

EC's behaviour is not the main problem affecting women editors

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My first encounter with EC, under his previous username, was a civilised to-and-fro discussion at the end of which he "came round to my way of thinking". I have never had any problems in interactions with him - and yes, I am female.

I was horrified to read GorillaWarfare's account of the unforgiveable way she has been harassed on- and off-wiki as an female editor, admin and arb. That sort of thing is a real and serious problem in the encyclopedia and needs to be investigated and stopped, with all the energies of ArbCom, WMF, or whoever.

EC's use of a word which Americans apparently find highly offensive was a problem in the past. His comments in a banned topic area, but in self-defence, on a page which is traditionally a free-for-all, are not a serious problem, except in so far as the over-wide restriction on him has allowed the instiguation of the huge waste of time and energy we see around us, occupying editors' time when they could be building the encyclopedia.

Language use and anatomical terms

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My reading of the infamous EC quote is "Anyone who doesn't want to be called an obnoxious fool should not behave like an obnoxious fool." Not aimed at anyone except the generality of obnoxious fools, of any gender.

Note too that while the word he used is a word for female anatomy, we also commonly use "Cock-up" and "Balls-up" to mean, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "A blunder, a mistake, a confused situation." and "A fiasco, a disaster; a mess, a muddle." respectively, and to the best of my knowledge both "cock" and "balls" in these terms are used in their sense which refers to male anatomy. PamD 22:22, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

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