User:DexDor/Dabs and SIAs
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![]() | This page in a nutshell: Pretending that a disambiguation page isn't really a disambiguation page (by re-labelling it as a SIA) is not good for Wikipedia readers. |
Disambiguation pages (dabs) and set index articles (SIAs) are two types of pages in the English-language Wikipedia that can be confused.
... while List of peaks named Stone Mountain and similar pages can be construed as "indices", pages like Mount Babel and Baker Mountain (and practically all pages not explicitly "list of") are still actually disambiguation pages.
Comment in a 2007 TfD
Types of Wikipedia pages
[edit]The diagram below shows a family tree of some types of Wikipedia pages. In particular it shows very similar pages such as African lily and African daisy being at different positions in the hierarchy.[a][b]
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In theory, an article (unlike a dab page) should have references, but in practice lists where every entry is linked to an article often don't have references.
There are also pages such as this (an article about 2 similar things known by the same name) that are formatted as a normal article (except for the wording not being as advised by WP:REFERS).
SIAs
[edit]Comparison with dabs
[edit]The SIA/dab distinction is mostly artificial, though, and unlikely to be recognized by readers.
Comment in a 2014 RfD
Differences between SIAs and dab pages include:
- WP:PTM doesn't apply to SIAs.
- SIAs should have references, although (like other lists) if the linked articles are referenced then these are often not duplicated on the list page.
History of SIAs
[edit]Quotes
[edit]- "Dabs aren't articles, SIAs aren't dabs. I know some editors who have been unhappy with having "their" disambiguation pages cleaned up have instead created disambiguation pages and tried to hide them under the SIA umbrella, but that's not what it's there for."[1]
- "Set indices seem to have taken on a life of their own, without much in the way of oversight or general standards, after being seen as a way to escape what is perceived as the inflexibility of disambiguation page format."[2]
Problems caused by SIAs
[edit]Some SIAs end up with lots of (inappropriate) inlinks - e.g.:
- Tatsuta was a ship SIA that (as of June 2014) had inlinks via a redir from 26 articles.[3]
- Tangerine Bowl was (as of 7 June 2014) a SIA with 8 inlinks from articles (plus inlinks from user/talk/draft pages).[4]
(and who knows when what-links-here was last checked?)
Sometimes the existence of a SIA instead of a dab page hinders navigation. For example the page at Baker Mountain was a list of mountains called "Baker Mountain"[5] - thus, it did not contain a link to Baker Mountain (ski area).
Sometimes a page that should be a disambiguation page is incorrectly tagged as a SIA (example).
Proposed guidelines
[edit]Suggested guidelines for SIAs:
- A SIA should contain a SIA template (e.g. {{Set index article}}).
- Each entry in an SIA should be cited, or at least linked to an article where it's cited.[6]
- A page shouldn't be both a SIA and a disambiguation page.
- The SIA tag should only be used where the name is the criteria for something being on the list, not incidental that all things having a particular characteristic have the same (or similar) name (e.g. List of popes or Kamen Riders).
- SIAs that have a name of the form "List of foos named Bar" should not have an incoming redirect from "Bar" or similar. This is because any links to "Bar" should (if the term "bar" is ambiguous) go to a disambiguation page - that way any such links will be detected (e.g. by DPLBot).
- A SIA should be in a SIA category (i.e. Category:Set index articles or a subcategory). This is normally/always automatic as a result of containing a SIA template.
- A SIA should be in at least one topic category. Typically a "List of foos named Bar" page would be in a "Lists of foos" category. Note: Some SIA templates place the article in a topic category - e.g. Template:Ship index places the page in Category:Set index articles on ships which is under Category:Ships.
- A SIA should not be in a category that may not apply to all its entries. E.g. a "List of places named Foobar" SIA should not be categorized under Category:United_States even if some/all of the (current) entries are in the United States. Examples: [4], [5]
- SIAs shouldn't be named "... (disambiguation)" (e.g. [6], [7], see those I changed am of 6/6/2014).
Disambiguation pages
[edit]Corruption of dab pages
[edit]There is continual pressure from (both newbie and experienced) GF editors to add information etc to dab pages - the effect of this is to make the page more like a (list) article and hence less like a dab page. For example:
- Introductory text / etymology.
- Entries that contain only redlinks (e.g. [8])
- Entries that contain no links at all.
- Unnecessary images (e.g. [9]).
- References (e.g. [10], [11]).
- External links (e.g. [7], [12]).
- SAs that are not appropriate on a dab page (about related concept).
- Categories that relate to the term being disambiguated (e.g. [13]).
- Categories that do not apply to all entries (e.g. a "burials in" category[14], [15])
- Templates (e.g. Template:Surname), some of which add categories.
- Stub tags (e.g. [16])
- Side templates (e.g. [17])
- Inlinks that don't go through "... (disambiguation)".
- Info that isn't in linked article (e.g. on Boeing 367[18])
Note: In some of these cases there may have been an article which contained references etc that was incompletely converted into a dab page.
How dab pages end up in a topic category
[edit]Disambiguation pages are not articles and do not have a topic[d], so dab pages should not be categorized as articles (i.e. under Category:Articles). This is a Wikipedia guideline (e.g. see MOS:DAB and WP:DBC). There are several ways that pages are sometimes (IMO incorrectly) placed under both Category:Disambiguation pages and Category:Articles - these include:
- An individual dab page is placed directly in a topic category (e.g. [19] [20]).
- An individual dab page is placed in a topic category by a template.
- An individual dab page is placed in a terminology category (e.g. [21]).
- An individual dab page is placed in a list category (e.g. [22]).
- A page is tagged as both a dab page and as a SIA (e.g. [23]).
- An individual dab page is placed in a category deliberately (e.g. X-mount [24] or [25]).
- A category for dab pages is placed in a topic category (e.g. [26] [27]).
- A page is categorized as a set index article and Category:Set index articles is placed under Category:Disambiguation pages.[e]
- An anthroponymy page is categorized as both an article and as a dab page (e.g. [28]).
- An article (not a dab page) has an inappropriate tag.[f]
- A category tag is added to a dab page by a vandal or an incompetent newbie (e.g. [29]).
Difficult cases:
- Should a page like 1929 in the arts ([30]) be a dab page ?
Note: The talk page of a dab page can be placed in categories for wikiprojects that (may) have an interest in the dab page - there is no need to duplicate this categorization in reader-side categorization as readers are not expected to be trying to navigate to dab pages (example CFD discussion).
Note: There are also pages like Szabó which probably should be a disambiguation page (and hence any inlinks would get noticed), but are currently only in article categories.
Notes
[edit]- ^ This is based on the pages as of May 2014.
- ^ Black oak and Blue lily are another example - dab page and SIA as of June 2014
- ^ i.e. with a dab page template and (hence) in CAT:DABP
- ^ Even if all the entries in a dab page are currently about, for example, people or places there is no guarantee that an entry about something else (e.g. a company or a film) with the same name may be added
- ^ This was fixed in June 2014.
- ^ E.g. dabconcept or conceptdab.
References
[edit]- ^ Template talk:Set index article, JHunterJ, 6 Feb 2010 [1]
- ^ Template talk:Set index article, Bkonrad, 7 Feb 2010 [2]
- ^ List of ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, Manus Island, Shigematsu Sakaibara, USS Sand Lance (SS-381), Japanese destroyer Kisaragi (1925), Lorengau, List of World War II ships, Sano Tsuneha, Japanese torpedo boat Tomozuru, Chuichi Hara, List of cruiser classes of the Imperial Japanese Navy, Japanese destroyer Mutsuki, Sadamichi Kajioka, Takatsugu Jojima, 5th Fleet (Imperial Japanese Navy), 4th Fleet (Imperial Japanese Navy), Takakazu Kinashi, Index of World War II articles (J), Invasion of Salamaua–Lae, Chidori-class torpedo boat, Kotoku Maru (1937), List of shipwrecks in July 1942, 18th Cruiser Division (Imperial Japanese Navy), Battle of Milne Bay order of battle, Tomioka Sadayasu, China Area Fleet
- ^ Ernie Kellerman, Fair Warning Tour, Texas A&M–Commerce Lions, List of Auburn Tigers football seasons, 1976 Tangerine Bowl, 1972 Tangerine Bowl, Rumours Tour, Donald Gaffney
- ^ The list was renamed to make way for a dab page with this edit.
- ^ This is an example of what can happen to a SIA.
- ^ Apocalypse of Baruch[3] which had gradually morphed from an article to a dab page