User:Alborz Fallah/Archive:User talk 3

Ottoman Massacares

I think we need to add some information on the Ottoman massacares of the inhabitants of Tabriz based on the available sources. Perhaps make a new article.. As an example: David Ayalon, Moshe Sharon , "Studies in Islamic history and civilization: in honour of Professor David Ayalon", Brill 1986. pp 416: "A deadly earthquake in the year 1721 destroyed large part of the city and killed eighty thousands of its inhabitants. Four years later the Ottoman Turks captured Tabriz and massacred two hundred thousand of its people" --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 15:45, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I think both languages are acceptable since the matter is established, we just have to put the page number and provide original quote if necessary..--Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi, if the information is Persian it is fine as there is nothing against Iranian historiography being manipulated with respect to the specific topic. Also there are English sources complementing it. I think a whole large section on Iranian Azeris needs to write about their contribution against Russian and Ottoman invaders.--Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:10, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

English

I noticed that you have posted comments to the page User talk:Ebrahimi-amir in a language other than English. When on the English-language Wikipedia, please always use English, no matter to whom you address your comments. This is so that comments may be comprehensible to the community at large. If the use of another language is unavoidable, please provide a translation of the comments. For more details, see Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Thank you. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:24, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Further to the above, your comments have been reported to the Admin Noticeboard. Unfortunately, there appears to be no auto translation software for Farsi to English available - so we are having to assume good faith of the reporters claim for what it says. Under the circumstances, further postings in any language other than English on User:Ebrahimi-amir talk page will be regarded as personal attacks and you may consequently be sanctioned for same. LessHeard vanU (talk) 19:30, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

history of name of Azerbaijan

Thanks for your message. Absolutely, the article itself contains numerous proofs that the lands north of the river of Araxes were included into the name of Azerbaijan, thus predating 20th century by at least 8 centuries, possibly much longer before that. Here are some of cited sources that support this:

• Hamdollah Mostowfi (1281-1349 AD), Persian chronicler includes Nakhchivan.
• Sir John Chardin, a traveller from France who visited the Middle East at the end of the 17th century
• Keith Abbot, British Consular General in Persia, wrote in the Memorandum on the Country of Azerbaijan in 1863
• Dr. C.E. Bosworth:
• Professor of History Muriel Atkin
• Professor George Bourtounian
• Professor Tadeusz Swietochowski
• Professor Xavier De Planhol

I know there are more such sources, but simply recite all those that are listed in the article. --Agasalim (talk) 10:14, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

dear Alborz Fallah, when you say "For Naxjavan , in Hamdollah Mostowfi era , it was only a city and not a province (or autonomous republic) , and it was a town in the bank of river Arass , so it can't be used as a proof to name the whole region north of Arass as Azerbaijan", you just refer to 1-2 above sources. The rest include much more than just Nakhichevan. Also, all it takes is one-two cities north of river Araxes, such as Nakhichevan or Muqan, to show that the concept of Azerbaijan included lands of the Azerbaijan Republic and of Iran from historic times. This is what both primary and secondary sources state, and they are all listed straight on the article page. So I think we are both clear on that and can agree that when so many different sources say that, the intro has to reflect that appropriately, without any politicization. --Agasalim (talk) 16:59, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Dear Alborz Fallah, what the outlined scholars said makes perfect sense when reading their quotes, instead of trying to interpret them. The quotes say very obvious and clear things, based on which it is obvious that the name of Azerbaijan included lands of the current republic long before 20th century. --Agasalim (talk) 08:42, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Professor George Bourtounian: "The Safavids, at one time, for revenue purposes, included some of the lands north of the Arax River as part of the province of Azerbaijan. This practice gradually fell out of use after the fall of the Safavids."

Dr. C.E.Bosworth: "[after 1221] The old name Arran drops out of use, and the history and fortunes of the region now merge into those of Azerbaijan".

Professor Tadeusz Swietochowski: "Azerbaijan is the name of the land populated today by the Azeri Turks, the people who inhabit the region stretching from the northern slopes of the Caucasus Mountains along the Caspian Sea to the Iranian plateau."

Professor Xavier De Planhol: "The imprecise and sometimes contradictory information given by Yaqut in the beginning of the 7th/13th century, occasionally extends Azerbaijan to the west to Erzinjan (Arzanjan). On the other hand in certain passages, he annexes to it, in addition to the steppes of Mogan, all of the province of Arran, bringing the frontier of the country up to Kor, indicating, however, that from this period the conception of Azerbaijan tended to be extended to the north and that its meaning was being rapidly transformed."

Professor Bert. G. Franger: "The borders of historical Azerbaijan crossed the Araxcs to the north only in the case of the territory of Nakhichevan".

Professor of History Muriel Atkin: "In Safavi times, Azerbaijan was applied to all the Muslim-ruled khanates of the eastern Caucasus as well as to the area south of the Aras River as far as the Qezel Uzan River".

Keith Abbot, British Consular General in Persia, wrote in the Memorandum on the Country of Azerbaijan in 1863: "The country known to the Persians as Azerbaijan is divided between them and Russia, the latter Power possessing about five-eighths of the whole, which may be roughly stated to cover an area of about 80,000 square miles (210,000 km2), or about the size of Great Britain; 50,000 square miles (130,000 km2) are therefore about the extent of the division belonging to Russia, and 30,000 of that which remains to Persia. The Russian division is bounded on the north and north-east by the mountains of Caucasus, extending to the vicinity of Bakou on the Caspian. On the west it has the provinces of Imeritia, Mingrelia, Gooriel, and Ahkhiska (now belonging to Russia); on the east it has the Caspian Sea, and on the south the boundary is marked by the course of the River Arrass (Araxes) to near the 46 th parallel of longitude, thence by a conventional line across the plains of Moghan to the district of Talish, and by the small stream of Astura which flows to the Caspian through the latter country. In this area are contained the following territorial divisions: - Georgia or Goorjistan, comprising Kakhetty, Kartaliny, Somekhetty, Kasakh; the Mohammedan countries of Eriwan, Nakhshewan, Karabagh, Ghenja, Shirwan, Shekky, Shamachy, Bakou, Koobeh, Salian and a portion of Talish. Georgia is traversed by the River Koor (Cyrus), a stream of no commercial importance, since it is not navigable except by boats. .. The population of Russian Azerbaijan consists of mixed races... The country included in these boundaries and, perhaps a large part, if not all, of Russian Azerbaijan recognized as Medea Atropotena in ancient geography."

Sir John Chardin, a traveller from France who visited the Middle East at the end of the 17th century described Azerbaijan as follows: "Media, which formerly ruled all Asia with an imperial dominion, at present makes but one part of a province, though the largest in the Persian empire, called Azerbeyan or Asapaican. It borders on the east upon the Caspian Sea and Hyrcania, on the south upon Parthia, on the west upon Araxes and the Upper Armenia, of which Assyria is a part, and on the north on Dagestan, which is that mountainous country that borders upon the Muscovite Cossacks, and part of Mount Taurus."

17th century Persian dictionary/quasi-encyclopedia Burhan Qati' under the words Aras and Aran gives two definitions: "Aras: the name of a famous river which flows past Teflis and forms a boundary between Azerbaijan and Aran. Aran: It is a province from/of (Persian: از ) Azerbaijan, Barda' and Ganja are parts of its territories".

Hamdollah Mostowfi (1281-1349 AD), Persian chronicler who worked for the Ilkhanid administration and was familiar with administrative affairs of his time writes: "The distances from Tabriz to the various places in Adharbayjan are as follows; to Ujan 8 leagues; to Ardabil 30; to Ushnuyah 30; to Urmiyah 24; to Ahar 14; to Pishkin 18; to Khoi 20; to Salmas 18, but going round by Maraghah it is 26 leagues; to Sarav 20; to Maraghah 20; to Dih-Khwarqan 8; to Marand 15; and lastly to Nakhchivan 24 leagues."

Yaqut al-Hamawi (d. 1229), a Syrian born geographer is famous for his geography bible Mu'jam Al-Buldan. He states: "The boundaries of Azerbaijan is from Barda' to the east to Arzanjan to the west and to south, its boundaries are the lands of Deylam, Gilan and Tarom." --Agasalim (talk) 08:57, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

To ask the third party about what exactly? Can you clearly state what you object to? You have at least 10 sources, probably more, all listed on the article itself, which clearly say that the name Azerbaijan encompassed lands north and south of Araxes river for many centuries. I did not write these sources, nor did I place them in the article - they've been there for years. So the intro was revised to properly recognize that fact. It is not an interpretation or opinion - it says it very clearly, black on white. We can certainly involve an administrator as a third party opinion, but it's not clear why create so much fuss and waste people's time on such trivial and nonessential things that are clearly spelled out and shown, and are not really open to interpretation. --Agasalim (talk) 14:03, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Categories

Hi, Alborz Fallah. We need your help. When we read the article such as Azerbaijani American, we can understand Category:Azerbaijani people and its sub-categories, Category:Ethnic Azerbaijani people and its sub-categories are very problematic. We must clarify these categories by nationality or ethnicity. We have to sovle these problems. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 02:18, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

+ Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 August 28#Category:Iranian people of Azerbaijani descent Takabeg (talk) 15:31, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Characene

Hello, I just saw you added an additional king with the name Pacorus II to the list of rulers of the Characene. Indeed this Pacorus is Pacorus II of Parthia. In thi time Characene was directly ruled by the Parthians. best wishes -- Udimu (talk) 09:35, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Your ethnic bickering with Orartu

Stop it, both of you. Do not engage in "I am <this ethnicity> and therefore I have the moral right to say stuff; you are <that ethnicity> and therefore don't" sorts of arguments. Being or not being in certain ethnic groups neither one gives you any special authority on Wikipedia. Additionally, telling someone else that she/he is not a member of an ethic group that the person claims can be considered a personal attack and will not be tolerated. I am putting this on both your talk pages. LadyofShalott 16:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I think your overview of the situation is not complete . If you want to Judge about a complaint , the proper way is to ask both sides . As sign of your incomplete information , I am from the very same ethnicity of the user Orartu . I did saw her conversation with you in your talk page , but consider it out of politeness to interrupt and show my side of story . Anyway , if you have the interest and enough time , I can explain more and I'm pretty sure that my turn of talking WILL change your prejudice . Anyway , thank you for your interest . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 07:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

What I saw was your first stating you were of a certain ethnicity - something which need not be stated here on Wikipedia at all as part of article discussions. Then she made it worse by accusing you of not being that ethnicity. I don't care what ethnicity either of you are. It's not an appropriate part of article-building discussions. LadyofShalott 08:49, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

It would be a kind of you if look and judge again : My first encounter with Orartu was here . Because her answer was not in detail , I used her talk page which is more prominent for new comers ( because of the yellow message box that it makes ) . Then my second encounter was this one : a Grammar dispute .And the third : About the Wikipedian way of editing - still no problem at all . Then her answer was :"But I did not see any discussion when the other users were putting these lies too.Plese hint them first." Well , this is the first insult : the sentence means when there were no discussion in the time of writing the articles - that it has been ! - and they are lies , so here would be no discussion !! Then comes her other opinion "Because Azerbaijanis don't have any right in Iran to defend their history, if you put Azerbaijani-related articles in categories like historical Iran, the other nations in Iran will misuse them.You can put it in historical Azerbaijan category" . After that , which shows a mind set of fighting background , I mentioned that I am an Azeri myself , and soapboxing in such a way is not the thing that I agree . And after that , I did not continue to say any other things out of formal Wikipedia formats . I am asking which part of my conversation was wrong and what did I said that I should not say ? Anyway , after all this , she has made many accusations that I am a dictator , I am a man with anti-women mind set , I am a Persian chauvinist and so on . What was my wrong ?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think y'all should be talking about what ethnicity editors are. That was my only criticism of your comments. As for some of her other comments, such as calling information with which she disagrees lies, I have advised her against that elsewhere. Now I've said all I have to say on this at this point and feel like we're starting to go in circles - this will be my last remark for this exchange. LadyofShalott 09:38, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

revealing my ethnicity is not my ordinary way of editing in Wikipedia , but in this special case , I had been accused of lying and fighting with an ethnicity that is my own ethnicity . I did not talked about any other editors ethnicity at all : only mine . Anyway , as I see that you say that was your last remark on this , I think it would also be my last remark too , but if I was going to post the same text in two editor's talk page , I would consider the differences between their behaviors : Justice is not always choosing the middle position , because choosing middle position between an extremist and a normal person , is standing in side of extremism . Thank you and goodbye . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 10:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

proposed changes in lead of 1953 Iran coup article

I'm polling editors active in the 1953 Iranian coup article on the issue of adding a short subsection titled ’Iranian coup supporters’ since the article has no mention on why they opposed Mosaddeq other than being bribed to do so.

Iranian coup supporters

Iranian opponents of Mosaddeq have been described as including "religious leaders and preachers and their followers, as well as landlords and provincial magnates"; "conservative politicians such as prime ministers Ahmad Qavam and General Ali Razmara .... and commanders of the military, most notably General Fazlollah Zahedi ... led by the Shah." They have been described as forces that would "have been crippled without substantial British and later U.S. support," while authors Ali Gheissari, Seyyed Vali Reza Nasr say "it would be mistaken to view the coup as entirely a foreign instigation with no support" in Iran.

Observers differ on the opponents motivation for supporting the coup. Mark J. Gasiorowski describes them as "very ambitious and opportunistic." Another author calls Mosaddeq's Iranian opponents elites "determined to retrieve their endangered interests and influence, and unconcerned with the lasting damage to Iranian patriotic sensibilities and democratic aspirations." Money was involved with the US CIA paying out $150,000 after March 1953 to "journalists, editors, preachers, and opinion members", giving Zahedi $135,000 to "win additional friends", and paying members of the majlis $11,000 a week.

Other authors (Ali Gheissari, Seyyed Vali Reza Nasr) describe the opponents as agreeing with Mosaddeq that the "British position was unjust and illegal," but believing that after the 1946 attempt by the Soviets to separate Azerbaijan and Kurdistan from Iran, "Iran's interests lay in close ties with the West to ward off the Soviet threat."government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh organized by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:53, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Warning

Your recent edits seem to have the appearance of edit warring. Users are expected to collaborate and discuss with others and avoid editing disruptively.

Please be particularly aware, the three-revert rule states that:

1. Making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss the changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing without further notice.----Orartu (talk) 09:29, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 09:57, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

This childish behaviour cannot happen again. We have a bold, revert, DISCUSS cycle in order to obtain WP:CONSENSUS. When that fails, we follow dispute resolution. You BOTH edit-warred, and be happy this is a mere 24hr block for now. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:02, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I did discussed in the talk page , add references and I did not revert the same change for three time . Please read the discussions that we had carefully --Alborz Fallah (talk) 10:05, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I read carefully - you might want to try reading WP:3RR carefully. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:08, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

The only excuse for edit-warring is reverting true vandalism and significant WP:BLP violations ... the definition of vandalism is quite strict; did your edits meet either of these? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:59, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I think so : Removing all or significant parts of a page's content without any reason, or replacing entire pages with nonsense. Sometimes referenced information or important verifiable references are deleted with no valid reason(s) given in the summary.

--Alborz Fallah (talk) 11:05, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

both blocked ?

Why am I blocked ? I did do the Wiki protocol step by step . What was wrong in my editing?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 10:01, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

for the barnstar. Can you read Farsi? When I do the villages next, there are some that have no references in Latin script, so it's hard to determine if a particular village (دورک), for example is spelled Durk, Davark, Davarak, etc.... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:16, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

• I have a list I'll post to you later. Thanks again! Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:40, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

thanks for the definition

) Elinruby (talk) 10

32, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

You & I ?!!!

Hi, There is a Sockpuppet investigation in here. Regards, In fact 13:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Can you please take a look ?

Well , I think your involvement in our debate has made an opportunity to fix the parallel discussions in other topics . I know that is time and effort consuming to get involved , but anyway you have already done a part of the job . I want you to express your opinion as the Third party in our active disagreement in the page Iranian Azarbaijani Kurds. I have filled a request in WP:3O, but I'm not sure it will find an active and listening admin at all ( as my 3 previous requests in admin boards was either neglected or turn out to be useless or back firing ). Thank you --Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:41, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for delay. I just went to take a look and found the above link has been deleted. I searched on related talkpages but couldn't find the discussion you mention. I am about to go to France to take part in the Nice-Cannes Marathon, so my internet access will be limited for around a week. If you still wish me to look into it when I came back at the end of the month, please let me know then. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 18:34, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

The official Latin names in Iran

Hi, the official script in Iran is Persian alphabet. Yes, you are right the official name of my city is "مریوان". Can you give me a citation for official Iranian city names in Latin script. Thanks, --Aso (talk) 18:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi,thank you for your concern . Transliteration of many languages in Wikipedia has their own pages and the page for Persian is this :Romanization of Persian . Take care , --Alborz Fallah (talk) 08:17, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

ابزار کمک مترجم

ببخشید فارسی می‌نویسم برای انتقال ناوباکس از ویکی‌فا به ویکی انگلیسی fa:الگو:راهنمای ابزار کمک مترجم را مطالعه فرمایید فقط به جای کد ذکر شده کد موجود در زیر را جایگزین نمایید .

importScriptURI("http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=User:Reza1615/ArticleTranslator.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript");

مانند خط اول fa:کاربر:Reza1615/common.js همچنین این کد را باید در ویکی‌فا در common.js کاربری خود قرار دهید تا در آنجا الگو را برای شما ترجمه کند وبعد بتوانید به ویکی انگلیسی انتقال دهید. اگر پرسشی بود در ویکی‌فا یا اینجا در خدمتتان هستم. از بابت ترجمه هم ممنون Reza1615 (talk) 09:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

proposed changes in 1953 Iran coup article

Since there was little discussion and no resolution to my proposal to add a short subsection titled ’Iranian coup supporters’ to the 1953 Iranian coup article, I'm doing a Request for Comment on the issue as well as polling editors active on the 1953 Iranian coup article. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

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Please comment on latest proposed change in 1953 Iran coup article

I'm polling editors active in the 1953 Iranian coup article on the issue of cleaning up the article to fix duplication, contradiction and bad chronology. Here are my proposed changes. Please leave a comment. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:40, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

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Iran county templates

Whether there is extra lines or not doesn't affect the way they are displayed. I keep them because it is easier to edit in the future, if a district or county is subdivided - everything that is together is closer together than if we delete extra lines, but since it has no effect on the appearance, it is a waste of time to do. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 06:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't see them in my browser; I use Chrome. If you see them take them out. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:05, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Look at Mianej, Qazvin, does the template have extra lines in it? I don't see them on Chrome. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:09, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed; yes, go ahead and change them. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:53, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Your article has been moved to AfC space

Hi! I would like to inform you that the Articles for Creation submission which was previously located here: User:Alborz Fallah/Battle of Ganja (1804) has been moved to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Battle of Ganja (1804), this move was made automatically and doesn't affect your article, if you have any questions please ask on my talk page! Have a nice day. ArticlesForCreationBot (talk) 20:11, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

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