Template talk:New York (state)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Cheektowaga

Cheektowaga (town), New York reports a population of 94,019, not 19,000. What is the criteria for inclusion? --ChrisRuvolo 22:01, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've just redesigned the template. The criterion for inclusion is being the FIRST listed place in any urban area or urban cluster with a population at least 10,000; or if the city is not in the state, a NEW YORK population at least 10,000.

The lists are here:

http://www.census.gov/geo/www/ua/st2kua.txt

http://www.census.gov/geo/www/ua/st2kuc.txt

Chekotowagwa is not included because it is a suburb of Buffalo, New York. I intend to create a webpage for the BUFFALO AREA, which will link in turn to Cheekotowatwa.

Dufekin 03:52, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hmmmm

I'm going to have a look at this soon. I like the "Major Metros" idea, but some of the "Smaller Cities" are not cities (Ilion for example. Furthermore, small cities like Sherrill are not included. I think we should list all small cities, regardless of their location. There's not that many. newkai 21:04, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Size -- proposed new edition

I think the current version is just a bit too big, considering how many pages it's on. Here's a proposed revision. Thoughts? --Quasipalm 22:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I saw the NYS template at the bottom of New York metropolitan area, and it is huge compared to NJ's and CT's. I also like your change in that the "State of New York" hyperlink is now only on "New York." Potentially, the US state templates could have "State" link to U.S. state. //MrD9 09:16, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed Biased Edits

Watertown, Elmira, and Poughkeepsie recently appeared on the large city list. Please check the numbers! Schenectady is three times larger than Watertown, yet isn't even on that list! It's actually larger than Binghamton, meaning it probably should be. But that has to do with someone changing "Major Metros" back to "Largest Cities". We need to come up with some criteria! Top ten maybe, or over 50,000 or something. -newkai | talk | contribs 08:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I see the philosophy behind Poughkeepsie, seeing that the metro population is quite big (about 350,000). But then we'd have to go back to "Large Metros". -newkai | talk | contribs 08:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I think we should use at least 50,000 population for "Largest cities" and 5,000-50,000 for "Smaller cities and towns". --Kuroki Mio 2006 15:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Long Island Lost

I added Hempstead, Long Beach and Valley Stream, all are bigger on on par with the other towns and cities on the list. There are many more larger Long Island communites that should be involved, but I don't want to make this template large.

And as for Hempstead, with it's population of over 755 thousand, its larger than a lot the Large Cities on that list. Should it not be on that list?

List is much to concentrated with small Upstate communties. Long Island has significant population. What can we do? Wxthewx99 01:48, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Hempstead isn't a "town" in the sense that most English speakers would think of a town. Towns in New York State are more like townships in New England --- they're county subdivisions. What we would call a town in most places is legally called a "village" in New York State. Anybody in New York who doesn't live in a city lives in a town. A town can contain villages, but many of them are vastly empty and culturally vapid (people identify with their village, city, or county, but rarely their town). See Political subdivisions of New York State, which I actually think I'm going to add to the template. Also, "smaller cities and towns" should be "smaller cities and villages," technically. I don't believe any towns (in the New York State sense) are listed - Bolwerk 01:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Towns

If you read my post above, I talk about the difference between towns and villages and cities in New York State (I was wrong, some are listed). I want to suggest, for sake of shortening that template, that we just remove all references to towns. Towns aren't exactly culturally significant parts of New York State life, with exceptions here and there perhaps. Hempstead has an impressive population, but if you read up on Hempstead, you learn it has a ton of "villages" in it. Villages are what are significant, not towns. Towns are administrative divisions with limited political power; very rarely are they communities. When they are (as with Mount Kisco), they're probably coterminous with a village. I suggest removing them from the list. Bolwerk 07:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

In the case of New York City, Towns have ceased to have significance today (Other than to become numbered Electoral Districts), but in the case of rural or rural/suburban towns - like Mount Hope in Orange County - they still have local significance, especially as the villages they contain proceed towards consolidation as they increase in population. - SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) (talk) 15:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Major overhaul needed

This template is becoming meaningless, as we add small, less significant communities to it, leaving off major centers. How does Mt. Kisco get on, but White Plains does not? We need to set population criteria, say only municipalities over 50,000 get added. I mean, good lord, Malone? I've never even heard of it. We should reinstate the counties list, delete all municipalities under 50,000, and add links for lists of cities, towns, villages and CDPs. --Nelson Ricardo 15:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I didn't think of White Plains actually, but yeah, you're right. I like the idea of linking to cities/villages more than counties or towns because cities/villages are probably institutionally the most interesting parts of NYS life. Counties are just arbitrarily drawn on a map. (I was under the impression Mt. Kisco is bigger than it actually is. My apologies.)

As a side note, White Plains isn't that big apparently, but it's probably economically vital enough to be placed on the larger cities list.

--Bolwerk 18:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

When I went through the links previously, I removed any city with less than 10,000 people. Mount Kisco, New York has since been added which is just shy of 10,000 people. I'm not sure what the threshold should be. It' might be better to say, let's list the next, say, twenty biggest cities after the big 8. --Quasipalm 18:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

"20 largest cities and villages" might be a good call. Something like this, though I'd probably not put the counties back in:

Actually, the obvious choice is to split this template into State of New York, which lists the Counties and the coterminous County/Cities; and 62 New York Counties, each of which lists all of the Towns, all of the Incorporated Mjnicipalities, and all of the Unincorporated Hamlets.

Inclusion, rather than Exclusion should be the focus. SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) (talk) 16:17, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

--Bolwerk 21:03, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I actually like this quite a bit better -- anyone else want to chime in? --Quasipalm 02:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I can't emphasize enough how much I think the counties overwhelm it. :-) Also, I think it might be a good idea to include a NOINCLUDE at the bottom of the template about adding towns, which appear to be a source of confusion. Towns mean something entirely different in New York State as compared to most other places. Bolwerk 12:58, 9 February 2006 (UTC)