Template talk:NJReportCard

Usage

{{NJReportCard|cc|dddd|sss|name}} <!-- NJ School Report Card template -->
where:
cc = 2-digit county code;
dddd = 4-digit district code;
sss = 0 for DISTRICT page '''OR''' the 3-digit school code for a SCHOOL page; and
name = (optional) name of the school or district (example: SampleTown Public Schools / Sample High School; no quotes or initial/ending spaces)

examples:
Teaneck Public Schools (District Page): {{NJReportCard|03|5150|0|Teaneck Public Schools}}
Teaneck High School (School Page):      {{NJReportCard|03|5150|050|Teaneck High School}}

Test results

I saw the change at Fair Lawn High School, which looked good. I followed the instructions, and was able to update pages with links to the NJ School Report Card for Teaneck Public Schools, Teaneck High School and Teaneck, New Jersey. All worked like a charm. I say that we start going through the pages still using the 2003-04 version and change them to use the new template, then go through the pages that had already been changed manually to use the 2004-05 version. Congratulations on getting this to work so well, so quickly! Please add a blurb for your new template on WP:NJ. Alansohn 13:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Second thoughts

Most of the links will appear on pages for either the school district or the school. Those two situations are handled perfectly by the template as it now stands. But there are many cases where a link to the Report Card would appear, either on a municipal page or on a page for another district. District A may be a K-8 district (which deserves a link in its own right using the existing template), that sends students to high school at District B (with a link to either District B or High School B on the District A page). Your proposed solution, to allow a fourth parameter that would be the name of the school / district (to be used instead of the page name) would seem to solve the problem. You've already addressed the major issue to perfection. Let's see if we can get this next part tackled. Alansohn 17:57, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See Englishtown, New Jersey for an example of a community served by two separate districts. Alansohn 19:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added in a fourth parameter--simply add the name to the end of what we already had (following a |). Currently, although this can be changed, high schools say "... Report Card for ___," and districts say "... Report Card menu for the ___"--this latter one might be an issue with saying "for the" and might have to be changed to somethign else, but you are much more familiar wiht the district names than I am, so hopefully you will have a solution

The only things I can think of at the moment are something like

XXX Township Public Schools
XXX Public Schools
XXX Public/Regional School District

all of which work with "for the" before them, but it might be a bit awkward with other district names

however, of course, we have three (or more, but these are the only ones I thought of as of now) options other than figuring out a generic way to word them in addition to what we already have

The way it is now.
Parenthesis... "2004-2005 School Report Card menu (XXX School District/Schools)..."
Name at the front: "Teaneck Public Schools 2004-2005 NJ DEP School Report Card menu" (or somethign liek this)
(I do not like this option at all because it isnt universal and would hardcode articles in) have the generic template say "... for" and then add in "the" or anything else that would need to preface the name as part of the name itself... ex (put this inside the template brackets on the page itself) "the Teaneck Public Schools" or something rather than simply the name: "Teaneck Public Schools," which would be used in any of the first 3 examples.

I updated the 3 Teaneck and the Fair Lawn HS pages with the current template version for you to look at. I did not update any of the other ones Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:NJReportCard yet (simply waiting to get the format ironed out better).

And one last important point: Remember that the HIGH SCHOOL and GENERAL DISTRICT links/link text can be customized completely separately--so if one form of wording/presentation works well for one but not the other, we can play with whatever we need to

Hopefully I did not leave out a response to any of your concerns--I don't think I did. I will be back in an hour or two. //MrD9 20:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And remember--this is just as much (if not your) template as it is mine or anybody's, so if there's something else you think should be changed/added/redone a different way, definately mention it. I feel as if I might have taken off on this a bit too quickly. //MrD9 20:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've already changed several dozen pages on the format using PAGENAME. This works so well, that I would suggest we revert back to that method. Let's develop an alternative that only uses the fourth pararmeter (with district or school name) if present, but uses PAGENAME by default. Why require entering the whole district / school name for every page? Alansohn 20:52, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried a few things--and so far have been unsuccessful--regarding this. I can't find a way to simply have it check if something has been entered as a fourth parameter and then, if it has been entered, use that, and if it hasnt been entered, use pagename. I'be been searcing around Category:If templates, but I am not quite sure on how to use them, and two of my attempts so far have failed (they did not even half work, they just screwed it up). Therefore, we either need to find someone who has template knowledge who can do this for us, or we need to find another solution. I am going to continue to work on it, but for now, I would suggest not adding the template to any other pages until we get this worked out. Actually, I could probably develop a work around that would work, but it would be like the workaround I created for the third parameter: if you type |0 for the fourth parameter, it uses pagename, but if you type something other than |0, it uses what you type--it's just im not sure if you want to have to add another |0 (or |p for page or |anything for whatever you'd want it to be) to the end (aka a fourth parameter would always be needed). If only this were JavaScript I'd figure it out in no time... //MrD9 21:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template Status

I continued to try to find some type of code to allow us to not type the school/district name, but after awhile I gave up because I do not think I will find anything. If you want to try to find some way, though, go ahead, but I think it's almost better this way because it "forces" to the link to be for the correct thing--a link can not accidentally have the wrong title because its title is typed in, not given by the page it's on.

Second, I went through the What Links Here page for this template and corrected all of the templates so that they all have the name typed into the template and appear correctly. Therefore, all of the existing links to the template should be correct at this time. //MrD9 20:37, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After a bit of experimentation, I think I have it. Using {{qif|test={{{4|}}}|then={{{4}}}|else={{PAGENAME}}}} which tests for the existence of a fourth input value and displays that value or else has the name of the article written on it, it seems to work- see J.P. Stevens High School. :) AndyZ 01:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Subst?

Should this template be used with subst:, or without? —chair lunch dinner™ (talk) 03:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

From my understanding, without or it will not work. The point of the template is to enable the ilnks to be updated all at once, since they change each year. Subst'ing would remove that functionality as far as I am aware. 03:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, that's what I figured. I just created Jackson Memorial High School and redid Central Regional High School. —chair lunch dinner™ (talk) 03:54, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Optional Name Parameter

I know that we originally tried to make it so you didn't have to type in the name of the district/school, but now that AndyZ's made it work, I think we should go back to not using it. The past few weeks have shown that it's not that big of a deal to type in the name into the template tag, and I think leaving it blank (to have it filled in by the page's name) is acutally not worth the problems associated with it.

For the minimum effort involved in copy/pasting or retyping the name
- We ensure the name is correct--if the page name changes (or in the case of schools like Pope John XXIII High School (Sparta, New Jersey) where the page name isn't the name of the school)
- We create consistency--all template links are parallel
- We associate the three numbers (county, district, and school) with what they represent; it allows for links to be moved around, copied to other pages, ... more accurately, since it's not just a random bunch of numbers
Using PAGENAME as a default creates inconsistency, allows for the chance for names to appear wrong (or for links to be copied to other pages and to say the wrong things), and is not really a great shortcut because it takes nothing to put the name in the template

Therefore, although AndyZ helped out a lot by finding a way to do this, I think that, on second though, this ability is more of a "curse" than a "blessing" (for lack of better words), since the minimal effort involved to insert the name in the template is worth the certainty that template links are accurate and easy to manipulate consistently and correctly. Any opinions? (And I know someone's going to argue "why not leave the optoin available even if you don't use it," but again, consistency...) //MrD9 03:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's true- depending on the names of the schools, it might not be appropriate to leave out the fourth parameter. It really is not a big issue- if the title of the article is correct, then there really should be no problem with the PAGENAME issue. As for consistency- I guess it would be good to stay consistent, but would it honestly matter? I don't feel as if consistency should be a problem with this case. Either way though "why not leave the optoin available even if you don't use it"? AndyZ 20:10, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- I'm happy with the optional parameter. Most of the time that this template would be used would be on a district or school page, in which the PAGENAME is correct, with no retyping needed. The fourth parameter would be most commonly used on a page for a municipality, in which case it would have to be entered no matter what. As it stands, paramter four will default only if left balnk, so there's no issue if you prefer not to use it. Thanks to both of you -- MrD9 and AndyZ -- for getting this up, running and working well. Another feather for WP:NJ!. Alansohn 20:27, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but "there's no issue if you prefer not to use it" is not true because some pages will have it and others will not. It's inconsistent, and for people who attempt to use the template who were not involved in its creation and are not versed in Wikipedia syntax and procedure, it'll be entirely possible for templates or infomration to be copied to other pages (such as from schools to town or district) and for them to now show incorrect information. "Binding" the non-changning name of a school or district to its codes is organized, consistent, clear, and logical, and it ensures that the "codes" are paired with what they refer to and not with something else. Plus, it's possible for article titles to change (for example, it's entirely possible for many of the generic high school names used to be used in other places, and if pages for those schools are created, the NJ ones will most likely be renamed to include disambiguation in their titles, and the links will, therefore, be misnamed). Before the template existed, the NJ Report Card manual links did not use {{PAGENAME}}, so why must they use them against logic now? (And the template was created for consistency and link management, not for confusion and inaccuracy.)_ //MrD9 21:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But if they just copy it, or attempt to use it- then they wouldn't change the county #s etc., and it would still be wrong. They would have to either see WP:NJ of this template talk page (in fact, I'm going to add the usage thing directly onto the template page) to see how the template is correctly used, and then they would find out that there is an optional parameter. For many templates, there are optional parameters, though I'm not quite sure if there are other templates that use the PAGENAME/optional parameter case. AndyZ 21:39, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- This is a template, there are many people using it and they will not use it consistently. Keeping it optional makes sense to me. Also, for names like Pope John XXIII High School (Sparta, New Jersey), I think the pipe trick may help. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]